Let this thread die

Magıc · May 2017

Personally think it's a great change as it completely *** on ganking playstyle which is the most cancerous playstyle in ESO. Rather face 10 tankplars than 1 ganker.

Enslaved · May 2017

Magıc wrote: »

Personally think it's a great change as it completely *** on ganking playstyle which is the most cancerous playstyle in ESO. Rather face 10 tankplars than 1 ganker.

Sorry, mate, but you just have no clue what you are talking.

imenace · May 2017

good god why would they even touch this? revert it or make it a toggleable option like the OP said

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Simple solution for this - make heavy attacks from stealth/crouch have non automatic release, and keep heavy attacks from regular, non crouch position automatic release. Both PvP and PvE win by this. All are happy, songs are sung and for once, Zos is praised on wise decision.

Not everyone attacks from stealth.

React · May 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Simple solution for this - make heavy attacks from stealth/crouch have non automatic release, and keep heavy attacks from regular, non crouch position automatic release. Both PvP and PvE win by this. All are happy, songs are sung and for once, Zos is praised on wise decision.

Magıc wrote: »

Personally think it's a great change as it completely *** on ganking playstyle which is the most cancerous playstyle in ESO. Rather face 10 tankplars than 1 ganker.

Did you even look at the video in the OP?

Kesstryl · May 2017

As a bow user, I like this change, however I can see people wanting the option for various play styles. I like it because I never know when my bow is fully charged, and I barely seem to get a stamina return when I do heavy attack with a bow, so I always think I'm not holding it down long enough. I also never begin my attacks ahead of the tank as I don't want to steal aggro, and I never begin with a heavy attack, but a skill. To me this change is good for my play style.

I think a toggle button would be good to let all of us benefit from this, but I don't know if they will want to put an extra feature into their game play settings just for a bow. I also like the idea of being able to hold the attack if in stealth, that's also a good solution for both play styles.

Tholian1 · May 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

Simple solution for this - make heavy attacks from stealth/crouch have non automatic release, and keep heavy attacks from regular, non crouch position automatic release. Both PvP and PvE win by this. All are happy, songs are sung and for once, Zos is praised on wise decision.

I could live with that compromise.

WatchYourSixx · May 2017

I was wondering when someone was going to mention that maelstrom bow is a compound bow... If you want realism, then having a similar release like the rebooted Tomb Raider games, where you can hold fully drawn, but are eventually forced to release after about 5 seconds.. but then again that would defeat the purpose of this change.

I'm sick to my stomach to see things like this go to the wayside... I was absolutely devastated when WoW took out having to carry your own arrows. It made the game feel so much more real than it was. Sure, it sucked to run out or have to buy more, but it was an aspect of the game that made archery fun and interesting.

Making changes like this makes this game feel less and less like a *** elder scrolls game and more like a cheap mmo. Might as well go free to play, and sell pay to win items. A game I've loved and supported since my beta invite may very well have to be thrown to the side and forgot about because I don't feel like the developers really care.

I know you can't please everyone, and forums aren't the only voice. But just because a few say something would be a good change, and you don't give an option to keep it the same, doesn't mean it's a good change.

How freaking hard can it be to make a toggle. We NEED options ZoS. Please, toggles for everything! This and especially the block. I don't want to see it. I know when I'm blocking. Why do I need a visual aid for that?

My two septims.. seems the worth of them are dwindling

ilmyy · May 2017

when you are preparing a bow HA, you can just press your skill, then you will lose nothing since you will release your skill as soon as your HA is fully-charged.
So, this is just loss for PVP players especially for gankers.
We all know that many people use miat pvp alert these days, and they just know someone targeting them with snipe.
Today, the only way is to prepare a bow HA first. Thanks zos, I think no gankers will exist next patch.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO · May 2017

Remove auto release for all weapons please, will make pve easier. It is one of the most annoying mechanics in the game and results in millions of missed heavy attacks every month, either that or put little timers over spawn points so people know when to start charging their attack.

"I didn't mention pvp because they obviously have no idea how pvp works"

MADshadowman_ · May 2017

OK, let's push for the toggle option. I think that's the best solution, because both sides get what they want.

Who's up for a toggle option? I know i am.

knighting68 · May 2017

All these people complaining about NB's... Well, guess what? NB's who run gank builds are glass canons. Any decent player know's exactly how to deal with them. Keep your shields up, prepare to block/dodge, use counter abilities, detect pots, etc. Catch any ganking NB with one of these and they're dead.

This game is about balance, right? If you choose to mount up so that you can run fast, you are more vulnerable. If you choose to stand out in the open unprotected, you are vulnerable. If you choose to run poison resists, you are better at negating poison. If you choose to run impenetrable traits, you are better at damage mitigation. Give and take, it's as simple as that.

It amazes me every day the bias that comes from so many players. It's perfectly fine to run a zerg bomb group, or exploit item sets which take 20+ people to kill you, or how about the streamers that have a 100-to-1 kill-to-death ratio but cry every time they get hit with a Snipe. But oh no, the solo NB can't have burst damage, because it hurts our feelings when we're not paying attention and die. Play how you want to play, we all have to deal with balance issues and we all have problems.

acw37162 · May 2017

I doubt it could make it into this patch but making this a combat menu toggle is a exceptional compromise.

firedrgn · May 2017

Well I have never been a whiner ,but I will vote with my wallet on this one.

This is crazy sauce. WTF are you people smoking.
The notes are Bs. That has nothing to do with resources management.

STEVIL · May 2017

Tholian1 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Thank you for the shout out Liam! And yes this is a TERRIBLE change!

From the patch notes: Bow
Heavy Attacks now automatically fire when they are fully charged.

Developer Comment:
Fully-charged Heavy Attacks will be more important with the resource changes coming in this update, so we want to make sure there are no gameplay barriers to using them.

I have allot of trouble seeing how this change does anything but ADD BARIERS to using a UNIQUELY FUNCTIONING HEAVY ATTACK. zeni max seems determined to water down all playstyles to be the same.

All because of the new battlegrounds maybe?

not sure battlegrounds has anything to do with this. in some of the hvy attack threads the lack of auto-fire on bows was brought up as a problem and i saw one or more specific requests for auto-fire instead of hold-fire.

IMO, heading into a heavy attack important patch it makes lotsa sense to have all weapons heavy the same way - auto-release or hold-release. Changing the one outlier to match the rest makes sense.

After a period of seeing how this plays out maybe a better more comprehensive solution would be a setting for for "auto-fire all heavy attacks when charged" would be needed if the input continues to favor such.

It actually makes little sense for combat with a bow to be treated the same as combat up close with a blade. And it actually makes opening with a heavy attack from stealth more difficult to do since you now have to make sure you are ready and on target before pulling the trigger.

yet like 99% of the combat with a bow in this game is treated like combat up close... light attack, identical, medium attack identical, heavy attack different, bow active abilities identical bow passives identical,bow ulti identical, bow crafting identical, bow enchantments identical, bow poisons identical... mechanically speaking the bow function is identical to how melee works and how magica staves work in this game except for the release of the heavy attack when charged.

Sure, some of the effects of the skills and passives etc are different but the mechanics are not - except for one thing... hvy attack release...

so... no i dont see it as making any sense for bows to be the only weapon where a heavy has its own unique and sometimes problematic release mechanic. Now, give it a passive that lets you build up to an X% damage boost for a fully charged heavy by some "holding on target while unmoving" synergy - like say the way vampire works - so that when you stay still and hold reticle on target you see a build-up option in the synergy slot that charges over say 10s - then you might have what you want and yet have the "mechanics" be the same.

But when you are talking, as many are here, setting up the right attack out of combat, c'mon its a second or two not 10s.

waitwhat · May 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The bow change is an excellent gift for bow users, gankers, and those who like to be prepared when the enemy rounds the corner alike.

As someone who has spent a great deal of time practicing the animation cancelling with heavy attacks in Cyrodiil, I've long since run up against the limitations of animation cancelling with a bow due to the hold-until-release mechanic.

This change better allows me to animation cancel not only Lethal Arrow and Poison Injection, the two previously weavable skills, but also allows me to weave in a wider skillset from the bow line and elsewhere. It will also allow me to animation cancel across bars, as I could with DW/2H, but cannot presently do.

The argument that one must have a heavy attack charged in preparation for the enemy rounding the corner or what have you is ridiculous. Instead, the bow user should be activating Lethal Arrow from crouch, so as to achieve 1) the immobilization from stealth, 2) equipped poison activation applying hindrance or resource drain, and 3) MAJOR DEFILE. This activation of Lethal Arrow would then be followed by a weaved heavy attack, and from there, poison injection. If crouched stealth is not an option, the bow user should apply lethal arrow when the enemy comes into view, followed by bombard/acid spray to apply hindrance, and then a roll dodge to remove themselves from the attacker's gap-close range.

Allowing for more varied, and efficient, weaving with the bow is of course a boon to stam dps in PvE, but it must be noted that it opens up a world of possibilities for ability barrages from stamina users.

I am baffled as to why this, of all things, was greeted with derision, when there's so much else for stamina users to justifiably hate.

As a stamblade bow/bow user in Cyrodiil (been that way since the beginning), this change is a dream come true for me, and you know that I would be screaming bloody murder if it were otherwise.

SirCritical · May 2017

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Any vids about holding fireball on the edge of inferno staff?

While this is an awesome post, let's think about channeled heavy attack with any of the stam-based weps, like lightning and resto staves

SirCritical · May 2017

Do I remember correctly that the bow, fully drawn, was draining stamina in one of the single TES games?

React · May 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

The bow change is an excellent gift for bow users, gankers, and those who like to be prepared when the enemy rounds the corner alike.

As someone who has spent a great deal of time practicing the animation cancelling with heavy attacks in Cyrodiil, I've long since run up against the limitations of animation cancelling with a bow due to the hold-until-release mechanic.

This change better allows me to animation cancel not only Lethal Arrow and Poison Injection, the two previously weavable skills, but also allows me to weave in a wider skillset from the bow line and elsewhere. It will also allow me to animation cancel across bars, as I could with DW/2H, but cannot presently do.

The argument that one must have a heavy attack charged in preparation for the enemy rounding the corner or what have you is ridiculous. Instead, the bow user should be activating Lethal Arrow from crouch, so as to achieve 1) the immobilization from stealth, 2) equipped poison activation applying hindrance or resource drain, and 3) MAJOR DEFILE. This activation of Lethal Arrow would then be followed by a weaved heavy attack, and from there, poison injection. If crouched stealth is not an option, the bow user should apply lethal arrow when the enemy comes into view, followed by bombard/acid spray to apply hindrance, and then a roll dodge to remove themselves from the attacker's gap-close range.

Allowing for more varied, and efficient, weaving with the bow is of course a boon to stam dps in PvE, but it must be noted that it opens up a world of possibilities for ability barrages from stamina users.

I am baffled as to why this, of all things, was greeted with derision, when there's so much else for stamina users to justifiably hate.

As a stamblade bow/bow user in Cyrodiil (been that way since the beginning), this change is a dream come true for me, and you know that I would be screaming bloody murder if it were otherwise.

Lol, but you're evaluating bow ONLY FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF A STAMINA NIGHTNLADE. Did you even watch the video in the OP? Calling everyone else's opinion "ridiculous" while flaunting your own very bias perspective makes your argument weak..

DRXHarbinger · May 2017

This is one majorly *** change. Was this done just to appease the gimpy pug dps that only use bow spam in dungeons or something. Practically every melee + bow user started a fight with a well timed bow heavy. Now bow users get added to the pool of staff users that instigate a boss fight early by charging a heavy too soon.

ZoS did you genuinely sit there and think people were actually forgetting to release the arrow or something?

Sharee · May 2017

As someone who uses fire heavy attacks all the time, i learned to live with the auto-firing when charged - but hey, if you guys can lobby ZOS into making my attacks hold-before-release like bows could, it will make my sniping of people weaving in and out of LOS infinitely easier, so - good luck!

Sharee · May 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

ZoS did you genuinely sit there and think people were actually forgetting to release the arrow or something?

I think it's pretty obvious: Since managing your resources with heavy attacks will be much more important now, having bow heavy attacks not auto-release when fully charged would make people either misjudge and release the attack too soon (thus getting no resources back) or releasing it too late, lowering their resource gains. (if you release a 1 sec charge heavy just 100ms later, you just nerfed your resource regen by 10%).

DRXHarbinger · May 2017

Sharee wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

ZoS did you genuinely sit there and think people were actually forgetting to release the arrow or something?

I think it's pretty obvious: Since managing your resources with heavy attacks will be much more important now, having bow heavy attacks not auto-release when fully charged would make people either misjudge and release the attack too soon (thus getting no resources back) or releasing it too late, lowering their resource gains. (if you release a 1 sec charge heavy just 100ms later, you just nerfed your resource regen by 10%).

Yes but how many of us will actually be managing resources with a bow now. Fighting at range with a bow in pvp...99% of instances you won't be low on stamina, also from a pvp stance youll want that kill with a 2h equipped for the regen passive. If you're fighting melee you aren't going to back away and charge a bow attack now are you? The needs of the very very few here are vastly outweighing the needs of the many.

SodanTok · May 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

ZoS did you genuinely sit there and think people were actually forgetting to release the arrow or something?

I think it's pretty obvious: Since managing your resources with heavy attacks will be much more important now, having bow heavy attacks not auto-release when fully charged would make people either misjudge and release the attack too soon (thus getting no resources back) or releasing it too late, lowering their resource gains. (if you release a 1 sec charge heavy just 100ms later, you just nerfed your resource regen by 10%).

Yes but how many of us will actually be managing resources with a bow now. Fighting at range with a bow in pvp...99% of instances you won't be low on stamina, also from a pvp stance youll want that kill with a 2h equipped for the regen passive. If you're fighting melee you aren't going to back away and charge a bow attack now are you? The needs of the very very few here are vastly outweighing the needs of the many.

Lol. This right here is everything that is wrong with this community.

Dragonnord · May 2017

One of the WORST changes EVER in the game and a HUGE disappointment.

Sharee · May 2017

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

ZoS did you genuinely sit there and think people were actually forgetting to release the arrow or something?

I think it's pretty obvious: Since managing your resources with heavy attacks will be much more important now, having bow heavy attacks not auto-release when fully charged would make people either misjudge and release the attack too soon (thus getting no resources back) or releasing it too late, lowering their resource gains. (if you release a 1 sec charge heavy just 100ms later, you just nerfed your resource regen by 10%).

Yes but how many of us will actually be managing resources with a bow now. Fighting at range with a bow in pvp...99% of instances you won't be low on stamina, also from a pvp stance youll want that kill with a 2h equipped for the regen passive. If you're fighting melee you aren't going to back away and charge a bow attack now are you? The needs of the very very few here are vastly outweighing the needs of the many.

From a dev standpoint: there are X weapons in his game, and one of them returns less resources over time than the others because it requires a manual release of heavy attacks while the others don't. So he fixes it. He doesn't give rat's ass about your fighting preferences. You do not balance game fundamentals around what the "current hottest meta" is.

apostate9 · May 2017

MADshadowman_ wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

MADshadowman_ wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Thank you for the shout out Liam! And yes this is a TERRIBLE change!

From the patch notes: Bow
Heavy Attacks now automatically fire when they are fully charged.

Developer Comment:
Fully-charged Heavy Attacks will be more important with the resource changes coming in this update, so we want to make sure there are no gameplay barriers to using them.

I have allot of trouble seeing how this change does anything but ADD BARIERS to using a UNIQUELY FUNCTIONING HEAVY ATTACK. zeni max seems determined to water down all playstyles to be the same.

I also have a terrible time seeing it from a real life application too. Bow hunters boast how accurate they can be with how long they can hold the how's draw. Some people can hold abow string pull for 2 minutes before firing off an accurate shot.

Edit:
Source = https://forums.bowhunting.com/threads/how-long-can-you-honestly-hold-your-bow-back-and-still-shoot-accurately.34465/

(From google)How to fire a bow:

1. Stance. Stance prior to shooting the bow: Stand upright with feet shoulder width apart, and feet at 90 degrees to the target.
2. Grip. ...
3. Place The Arrow On The Bow. ...
4. Finger Position. ...
5. Draw. ...
6. Aiming. ...
7. Release.

Notice step 5. DRAW coming in before aiming and release.

https://youtu.be/wESnn1ox85U

In this instructional video on firing an arrow the instructor STRESSES THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAWING YOUR SHOT AND SETTING IT BEFORE RELEASING THE ARROW.

ZENIMAX MY IMMERSION. ZENIMAX MY UNIQUE GAMEPLAY.

seriously though, only a tard would fire arrows like they are proposing.

I know this is just a joke... but people want to talk about immersion and making it seem realistic or ruining some random niche build...it's insane... get over it. This style fits with every other weapon in the game now.

To prove your immersion concept doesn't fit...

first - Go out and find a bow... not a compound bow... find a recurve bow or a long bow... 50lb draw weight is pretty average for an adult. I use a 55lb when i target shoot (i have a friend that hunts with a 70lb draw and he's a monster)

second - do a full draw all the way to anchor... if you're even able to

third - attempt to HOLD that draw while you aim at something indefinitely....just like you are wanting to do in this game.

come back and let me know how long you could hold it... here's a hint, it won't be very long. Most people only hold it for a couple seconds. (compound bows like the one in the video... are MUCH easier to hold - we dont' have those in ESO)

Sorry, did that ruin your "immersion"?

Go out and find a fire staff.

Oh, did I just prove your whole argument invalid?

Keep walking, pal.

umm... no? that's literally what i brought up in the first sentence of my post... that this isn't real.
nice try though.

If you were paying attention... i was responding to people posting real videos of people using a bow.

Unfortunately that doesn't make your argument any more valid.

And btw. Please show me a long bow in ESO.

Furthermore, even with a long bow you hold it drawn for a moment while you aim. And since most bows in ESO are in fact short bows/ compound bows it's not hard for a trained archer to hold a heavy attack for a while.

There you go.

Well, since this can was opened...there are no compound bows in ESO. Well, I guess maybe the Maelstrom bow?!

A compound bow is a modern invention and uses a lever system---which racial style has one of those?

http://eso.mmo-fashion.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2014/05/eso-ophidian-bow-2_thumb.jpg

Vs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compound_bow

And as for holding your draw for 15 minutes waiting to gank someone...No. Not in combat. A traditional longbow/shortbow for fighting (like a Saxon Longbow) has a very heavy draw. And enemies will want to kill you while you stand there holding it. So, unless you are firing a salvo as part of a line of archers (not what people do in ESO) You are going to shoot "intuitively", i.e. aim while drawing then release. You can do it with practice, and a bowman in the Middle Ages would definitely have this skill. Think about it...how do you aim a bow? Where is the sight on a longbow? There isn't one. You are aiming "intuitively" like a baseball. A baseball or football doesn't have a sight either, but pro athletes can still aim one, right? Even though they are trying for a "quick release". It's eye-hand coordination and trained muscle memory. You start learning where the arrow will go when you point the bow a certain way.

You look at the target, knock, draw-fire! That fast. I can shoot like this (or could when I shot bows more) and I assure you, that on a bow with a heavy draw, holding the draw will just make your arm start to quiver and get tired, making your aim *worse*.

Tholian1 · May 2017

Can anyone tell me if the change to bows now makes it possible to just hold down the button and allow the bow to continuously auto-fire heavy attacks like with the melee weapons? I hope that is not the case.

LiquidPony · May 2017

I find all of the conversations about "realism" in holding a drawn bow to be ... ridiculous? Hilarious?

Given a traditional Saxon wizard using a lightning destruction staff, how long could said historical wizard hold the staff in a charged state before exhausting their mana?

Yiko · May 2017

Sharee wrote: »

From a dev standpoint: there are X weapons in his game, and one of them returns less resources over time than the others because it requires a manual release of heavy attacks while the others don't. So he fixes it. He doesn't give rat's ass about your fighting preferences. You do not balance game fundamentals around what the "current hottest meta" is.

Who said anything about the "current hottest meta"?" If anything, the current hottest meta for PVE is heavy attacking, and that is precisely why they're changing bow mechanics that have been in place for years. Or are you saying that you disagree with their choice here?
You do not nerf PVP bow capabilities (when they're a nonissue) for players who cannot learn to release their left mouse button in a timely fashion.