Let this thread die

Rinmaethodain

There is so many simple problems cause just by lack of toggle. Visual quirks, things that slightly change gameplay. I thought that during last decade game developers realise that players want to be in control too, have some power on whats happening. Me personally love to configure everything, change every single settings to have game suit me personally.

Thats why toggles exist. So everyone can pick what they want. Of course not everytihng can be toggle as it could change game significantly but such little things as this mentioned "bow auto release" should be a toggle.

Even more, why cant we have all attacks release either auto or manual as a toggle? Even sword swings can be stopped at some point and kept there for a heavy blow.

As for other toggles go, why are we still forced to see this ugly gold shield animation while we block?

Vapirko

My only positive to this is it will take a while for gank builds to adapt to bow HA cancelling with poison injection/silver shards etc.

Volrion

ZOS WHAT THE *** ARE YOU DOING!

Dorrino

Didn't read the whole thread of tears, but i'm curious, how come that we want to be able to hold bow fully charged, but not other weapons?:)

It totally makes sense to wait around a corner with your heavy greatsword above your head. Frankly even more sense than a bow:)

Maryal

Awww ... look at the bright side .... bow heavy attacks stun (at least mine do). There was no mention of removing the stun from heavy bow attacks ... so that means rapid fire stuns all around! (yes, I am being sarcastic)

worsttankever

I've changed my mind and am now looking forward to the change. I try medium & heavy attacking with bow in PVP, but I'm sure at times I release early or too late. Hoping this helps with stamina management.

brantkin

Yeah i wish they would revert like 90% of this patch. It's teetering on ruins any sort of fun, but i have faith next patch will be better, i mean how can they do a worse patch after this one. They legit killed any sort of skill and screwed up the fun aspect. No one that i have talked to seems to think holding down left mouse button for two seconds in between skills is fun.

Alp

I'm going to bump this thread. After a few days of playing with my magicka warden I went back to do some of the quests on my stamina nightblade. The bow heavy attack makes me feel sick. It feels wrong. Bows were my favourite weapon mechanic wise. It was different from the other weapons. Now it just feels like a weak stamina alternative to staves. I can't deal with it. I keep firing it by what feels like an accident at any little critter that walks by while I'm trying to get sneak up on a mob.

Please consider changing this back. It ruined my favourite character that has used bows since I first started. I don't know how to think of this positively anymore and I tried.

Smmokkee

JackDaniell wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Thank you for the shout out Liam! And yes this is a TERRIBLE change!

From the patch notes: Bow
Heavy Attacks now automatically fire when they are fully charged.

Developer Comment:
Fully-charged Heavy Attacks will be more important with the resource changes coming in this update, so we want to make sure there are no gameplay barriers to using them.

I have allot of trouble seeing how this change does anything but ADD BARIERS to using a UNIQUELY FUNCTIONING HEAVY ATTACK. zeni max seems determined to water down all playstyles to be the same.

I also have a terrible time seeing it from a real life application too. Bow hunters boast how accurate they can be with how long they can hold the how's draw. Some people can hold abow string pull for 2 minutes before firing off an accurate shot.

Edit:
Source = https://forums.bowhunting.com/threads/how-long-can-you-honestly-hold-your-bow-back-and-still-shoot-accurately.34465/

(From google)How to fire a bow:

1. Stance. Stance prior to shooting the bow: Stand upright with feet shoulder width apart, and feet at 90 degrees to the target.
2. Grip. ...
3. Place The Arrow On The Bow. ...
4. Finger Position. ...
5. Draw. ...
6. Aiming. ...
7. Release.

Notice step 5. DRAW coming in before aiming and release.

https://youtu.be/wESnn1ox85U

In this instructional video on firing an arrow the instructor STRESSES THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAWING YOUR SHOT AND SETTING IT BEFORE RELEASING THE ARROW.

ZENIMAX MY IMMERSION. ZENIMAX MY UNIQUE GAMEPLAY.

seriously though, only a tard would fire arrows like they are proposing.

This bow isn't a good representation of what we use in eso.

Smmokkee

jakeedmundson wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

Thank you for the shout out Liam! And yes this is a TERRIBLE change!

From the patch notes: Bow
Heavy Attacks now automatically fire when they are fully charged.

Developer Comment:
Fully-charged Heavy Attacks will be more important with the resource changes coming in this update, so we want to make sure there are no gameplay barriers to using them.

I have allot of trouble seeing how this change does anything but ADD BARIERS to using a UNIQUELY FUNCTIONING HEAVY ATTACK. zeni max seems determined to water down all playstyles to be the same.

I also have a terrible time seeing it from a real life application too. Bow hunters boast how accurate they can be with how long they can hold the how's draw. Some people can hold abow string pull for 2 minutes before firing off an accurate shot.

Edit:
Source = https://forums.bowhunting.com/threads/how-long-can-you-honestly-hold-your-bow-back-and-still-shoot-accurately.34465/

(From google)How to fire a bow:

1. Stance. Stance prior to shooting the bow: Stand upright with feet shoulder width apart, and feet at 90 degrees to the target.
2. Grip. ...
3. Place The Arrow On The Bow. ...
4. Finger Position. ...
5. Draw. ...
6. Aiming. ...
7. Release.

Notice step 5. DRAW coming in before aiming and release.

https://youtu.be/wESnn1ox85U

In this instructional video on firing an arrow the instructor STRESSES THE IMPORTANCE OF DRAWING YOUR SHOT AND SETTING IT BEFORE RELEASING THE ARROW.

ZENIMAX MY IMMERSION. ZENIMAX MY UNIQUE GAMEPLAY.

seriously though, only a tard would fire arrows like they are proposing.

I know this is just a joke... but people want to talk about immersion and making it seem realistic or ruining some random niche build...it's insane... get over it. This style fits with every other weapon in the game now.

To prove your immersion concept doesn't fit...

first - Go out and find a bow... not a compound bow... find a recurve bow or a long bow... 50lb draw weight is pretty average for an adult. I use a 55lb when i target shoot (i have a friend that hunts with a 70lb draw and he's a monster)

second - do a full draw all the way to anchor... if you're even able to

third - attempt to HOLD that draw while you aim at something indefinitely....just like you are wanting to do in this game.

come back and let me know how long you could hold it... here's a hint, it won't be very long. Most people only hold it for a couple seconds. (compound bows like the one in the video... are MUCH easier to hold - we dont' have those in ESO)

Sorry, did that ruin your "immersion"?

Seriously though. I hear this argument so much. I don't agree with the gameplay changes but if you guys want to talk about reality zos has only made it more realistic.

skywarnmc27

Liam12548 wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert

PLEASE CONSIDER REVERTING THIS CHANGE. "Fully charged heavy attacks from bow now fire when charged".

In pvp, a huge part of using bow is charging a heavy attack and holding it until an opponent comes around a corner, within range, etc. This change will completely remove this ability and make the bow even more useless than it already is.

I understand the concern for ease of use with the new importance of heavy attacks, but you are destroying an entire playstyle with this change. Please consider either making this option a toggle or reverting it entirely. It is VERY easy to tell when a bow is fully charged, there is no reason to harm the playstyle in the name of "Streamlining" gameplay.

Please reference the below video for a strong example of this playstyle, and why it will be ruined if this change hits live. This video is from the youtube channel "KristoferESO", run by a player who goes by the forum name "JackDaniell".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi_zGhNgpW8

@JackDaniell

Bow is dead in the game now, ZOS royally screwed it up. It really screwed over stamblades.

Looeeze

I am just putting my two pence in to show my hatred of the bow changes, the more people who make their opinions known the more chance we have of getting either a revert or a comprimise. So please make it known if you dislike the bow changes.

A bow is not a darn bow if you cannot hold the charge, it is ridiculous!!!

My suggested compromises if not a complete revert are:

1. Like many people have said, a toggle option. Simple.

2. If the bow changes are because of these new battlegrounds, perhaps only enforce this stupid bow law within the actual battleground activities.

3. At the very least, take a leaf out of Tombraiders book and go realistic and make the charge hold for an amount of time (ya know, like in real life when you are at full draw and you cannot possibly hold any longer because your arm will drop off if you hold it any longer sort of thing), heck, perhaps even have passive skills that can increase hold time if you invest skill points into it?

JWKe

LOL Zo$ whoever is in charge of this certainly don't know what he/she is doing...

Dracindo

Same option should be provided for all weapons though. You can also wait at a corner, 2H mace held high, and when an enemy shows up, strike him!

If anything, why not have this applied for Destruction staves, either? A toggle is nice for the roleplayers, but this is much more efficient, from my perspective.

cambergang

This update with bows made really start look for other games which is sad I've played this game since day 1 on Xbox. As I play most 2h bow stam builds in pvp and that was a solid damage for my starter that is take away an 8k starting move. Key words Zos you hear in a in normal life is "its not broke so don't fix it" but is seem like you guys are just try to kill the game with half of these patch I see so many people quit this game. When people ask me if they should get ESO I say no cause all your doing is destroy what used to be a great game and new player all the ask me all the time is it worth grind in the game for stuff and it not worth cause with every patch the sets that we grinded for are completely useless. I know I'm going on a rant for more than just the problem with the bow heavy *** that never should have happened but they need to know that people quit this game cause of it and killing a great Community on this game slowly. At this point we all know your just try to sell copy's at this point but how do you think long time players of this game feel cause I know I've spent a lot of money on this game but I think in the long run you would have people stay around longer and spend more money if you got the community involved with stuff. i don't want changes to something that has been working perfect for along time just cause people complaine about it just because they don't have to skill to do anything about it personally you should have good player and casual player say why it need to be buffed, nerfed, changed, or throw out with of course with someone who plays regularly that works at zos and is a decent player that could say if the skill, passive or armour set really needed to be change because it's just really that overpowered or if it's really just that bad. But if it continues like this every game I buy I'll be making sure your company is not apart of it cause cause I don't want pointless change to stuff that work well. Thanks to all of you that read the whole rant but it needs to be said that some of use care about the state of this game get the word out that pointless changes don't make people want to stay around and spend money.

auni116

I expected ZOS to respond to this by now. I highly agree that it should at least be a toggle to let player choose; it ruins a lot of rotations starting with bow heavy attack.

Corvusco

I know this is an old topic but I recently came back to the game and when I googled this "problem" this was the first result I got from google.
I am rather unhappy with the change, I don't play PVP but I really liked to be able to hold the shot for how long I waited this mades me really sad.

FrancisCrawford

Corvusco wrote: »

I know this is an old topic but I recently came back to the game and when I googled this "problem" this was the first result I got from google.
I am rather unhappy with the change, I don't play PVP but I really liked to be able to hold the shot for how long I waited this mades me really sad.

I'm glad I leveled an archer before this change. It wouldn't be any fun to level one now, and I advise new players accordingly.

STEVIL

Corvusco wrote: »

I know this is an old topic but I recently came back to the game and when I googled this "problem" this was the first result I got from google.
I am rather unhappy with the change, I don't play PVP but I really liked to be able to hold the shot for how long I waited this mades me really sad.

Would you be ok with being able to hold it but not getting it to count as a heavy attack, cuz, you know, realistically a held draw does not give you more damage then a draw and shoot does, right?

To me this was about light attacks vs heavy... not draw vs hold.

in the game, weapon users have the option of quick shots (light attacks) or slow shots (heavy attacks) and very different results from them (with a middle case medium attack for some.)

All the "bows should hold" arguments that are based on how bows work fail to also tie this to "not getting different results" whether you hold or not.

i mean, if the animation for holding a bow was changed to holding it with arrow nocked and pulled back as an "idle" position, then BLAMMO you have your "holding charge ready to shoot" - as light attacks and done, right?

But once you start to have to argue the benefits - turn it to "bows should have an ability with heavy attacks that magical fire staves and magical swords do not" then it becomes a more difficult case to argue.

IMO.

Skullstachio

From an honest perspective, making it so that bows automatically Fire on a full charge is literally a step in the wrong direction as not only does it kill the way bows were mean't to be fired, but it also gives Bow Sorcs a way of Botting with bows as well as staves. You may as well be firing a gun made of wood for all I know.

STEVIL

Alpha-Lupi wrote: »

From an honest perspective, making it so that bows automatically Fire on a full charge is literally a step in the wrong direction as not only does it kill the way bows were mean't to be fired, but it also gives Bow Sorcs a way of Botting with bows as well as staves. You may as well be firing a gun made of wood for all I know.

so how is botting with bow any better worse than botting with staff? botting is about shots without consequence so... dont really see one as any different. not like the loss in damage is an issue or like you cannot have a magic bot as easily as a stamina bot.

RouDeR

if the bow changes are reverted back, the DK empower to Heavy attacks must go away ,cuz this will happen again: ^^
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCOUngvwra4

LadyLavender

STEVIL wrote: »

Would you be ok with being able to hold it but not getting it to count as a heavy attack, cuz, you know, realistically a held draw does not give you more damage then a draw and shoot does, right?

Well, actually…think of light attacks as not quite drawing the bow all the way, and heavy as full draw. tbh, I am much more likely to reach full draw and actually aim if I hold my draw for at least a breath…which is probably about the same affect as a heavy attack in game.

But since ZOS doesn't actually care about the logic of how things work, yeah, it's all about heavy vs light mechanics and "balance."

STEVIL

LadyLavender wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Would you be ok with being able to hold it but not getting it to count as a heavy attack, cuz, you know, realistically a held draw does not give you more damage then a draw and shoot does, right?

Well, actually…think of light attacks as not quite drawing the bow all the way, and heavy as full draw. tbh, I am much more likely to reach full draw and actually aim if I hold my draw for at least a breath…which is probably about the same affect as a heavy attack in game.

But since ZOS doesn't actually care about the logic of how things work, yeah, it's all about heavy vs light mechanics and "balance."

yes, you got it... real world bows have as much to do with light and heavy attacks as real world staves do... but that does not stop the stream of archery gripes.

WildRaptorX

Let’s bring this back

SlowMetabolism

Keylun wrote: »

Let’s bring this back

Zenimax will never revert changes like these. They are always right in everything they do, no matter what the player base says. Same goes with this new 1 weapon counting as 2 (wut) it will never be changed. Even if they buff maelstrom, master, asylum why would anyone run them over an entire 5 piece set. Sad.

STEVIL

reverting it unlikely and toggles take processor ticks.

Giraffon

Hate to necro this, but this really needs another look. We need a toggle. It's a lot less fun to play the way it currently is. I'm going to put my bow in storage until they put it back the way it was or give us a toggle.

imenace

+ revert it zenimax please, stop butchering mechanics

LuN4Rn0v4

Yes its necro'd a little, and I haven't played in a long while, but WTF Zenimax?! I have played since Closed Beta and have loved everything about this game. I almost exclusively play bow classes in any game I play, but this "change" has completely ruined the game for me. Why would you change something that wasn't needed? The bow already has the title of worst main weapon, why would you ruin it any more? I'm probably not even gonna play for now. At least until this gets reverted back, or an option is added to revert it back.

And to anyone that doesn't understand, try going back to Skyrim, Oblivion, or Morrowind and playing with the bow. You'll see that you CAN'T hit your target at all! The whole design of a bow is to draw, aim, THEN fire. Not draw then fire.