ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »(...) Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game. (...)
MaximusDargus wrote: »Forcefully trying to balance PVE and PVP at the same time is like death of ESO being pronounced - not today, not tommorow, but somewhere in not so distant future.
What im refering to?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »(...) Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game. (...)
These two enviroments, PVE and PVP are diametrally different. In one we fight players with 20-30k HP dealing 5k-20k damage while in other we fight targets with 100 to milions of HP that deal up to 100k of damage.
Trying to balance it with changes affecting both at the same time is like trying to stabilise and Inverted Pendulum where on one end there is PVP balance and on another PVE balance and in the unachievable middle we have mythical "global balance".
How long it's been that developers were trying to achieve the PVE+PVP balance? One year, two years and counting - in meantime we've seen things nerfed and buffed back and forth from one patch to another - pretty much time wasted on running circles.
(an example of such change is how in Dark Brotherhood constitution passive was buffed to compensate PVE tanks for loss of bracing passive yet in Morrowind patch notes that change is basically being reverted because of complaints from PVP playerbase).
If that time, these months and years would have been spent by developers on overhauling PVP system in a way where it could be balanced 100% separately from PVE environment, we would be enjoying already (or very soon) a much better balance in completely separated fields of PVP and PVE where one system wont be hurting other players:
- no more PVP players complaining that power creep in PVE is runing their builds and abilities and other way around, no PVE players complaining that PVP complaints are inducing nerfs in abilities behaving perfectly fine in PVE
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »It's actually entirely possible to balance PvE and PvP together.
They would have to balance player skills and tooltips and mechanics in PvP first. The devs can't control players, so they have to be tamed first.
And then balance and tweak PvE mob mechanics and stats around PvP-balanced player characters. Devs can control PvE aspects of the game.
ZOS has historically not been willing to do that because it takes a little more effort, but this upcoming patch is out of character for them... It might be the beginning of a change. We'll see.
They sure do have a lot of power creep to revert, so it's sizing up to be one helluva patch.
lunalitetempler wrote: »Changes are happening, the sooner you accept it the sooner you can adapt. Your just beating a dead horse at this point.
You would still have buff and nerf cycles though, and big ones people don't like when the game goes beyond what the devs envisioned.OP is pretty much on point here. The buff and nerf cycle isn't going to change anything in the long run. Implementing short term patches and fixes may look like fine-tuning towards a solution, but with 3 years and counting, perhaps more effort should be directed towards the underlying system instead.
You would still have buff and nerf cycles though, and big ones people don't like when the game goes beyond what the devs envisioned.OP is pretty much on point here. The buff and nerf cycle isn't going to change anything in the long run. Implementing short term patches and fixes may look like fine-tuning towards a solution, but with 3 years and counting, perhaps more effort should be directed towards the underlying system instead.
lunalitetempler wrote: »Changes are happening, the sooner you accept it the sooner you can adapt. Your just beating a dead horse at this point.
so are the developers with this pipe dream of balancing both sides equally.
NightbladeMechanics wrote: »It's actually entirely possible to balance PvE and PvP together.
They would have to balance player skills and tooltips and mechanics in PvP first. The devs can't control players, so they have to be tamed first.
And then balance and tweak PvE mob mechanics and stats around PvP-balanced player characters. Devs can control PvE aspects of the game.
ZOS has historically not been willing to do that because it takes a little more effort, but this upcoming patch is out of character for them... It might be the beginning of a change. We'll see.
They sure do have a lot of power creep to revert, so it's sizing up to be one helluva patch.
So basically everything would be balanced around pvp, think i'll pass.
And no this patch is shaping up to be pretty awful to be honest.
Power creep my ass, Only 1 % of the players managed to complete v trials or arena, and for normal players, most vet dungeons are decently challenging.
They should create a new mode specifically for experienced players, and there you go, the so called power creep that affects only the top players would be gone.
But then guess what, the content would get too easy after a few times that you do it, and then back at the forums asking for nerfs because the game is now too easy.
What I foresee happening is longer dungeon/trial runs. I mean come on, people skip content in dungeons, and burst down bosses quickly. That's an issue.
MaximusDargus wrote: »Forcefully trying to balance PVE and PVP at the same time is like death of ESO being pronounced - not today, not tommorow, but somewhere in not so distant future.
What im refering to?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »(...) Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game. (...)
These two enviroments, PVE and PVP are diametrally different. In one we fight players with 20-30k HP dealing 5k-20k damage while in other we fight targets with 100 to milions of HP that deal up to 100k of damage.
Trying to balance it with changes affecting both at the same time is like trying to stabilise and Inverted Pendulum where on one end there is PVP balance and on another PVE balance and in the unachievable middle we have mythical "global balance".
How long it's been that developers were trying to achieve the PVE+PVP balance? One year, two years and counting - in meantime we've seen things nerfed and buffed back and forth from one patch to another - pretty much time wasted on running circles.
(an example of such change is how in Dark Brotherhood constitution passive was buffed to compensate PVE tanks for loss of bracing passive yet in Morrowind patch notes that change is basically being reverted because of complaints from PVP playerbase).
If that time, these months and years would have been spent by developers on overhauling PVP system in a way where it could be balanced 100% separately from PVE environment, we would be enjoying already (or very soon) a much better balance in completely separated fields of PVP and PVE where one system wont be hurting other players:
- no more PVP players complaining that power creep in PVE is runing their builds and abilities and other way around, no PVE players complaining that PVP complaints are inducing nerfs in abilities behaving perfectly fine in PVE
lunalitetempler wrote: »MaximusDargus wrote: »Forcefully trying to balance PVE and PVP at the same time is like death of ESO being pronounced - not today, not tommorow, but somewhere in not so distant future.
What im refering to?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »(...) Lastly, we know there’s some apprehension that we’re balancing PvE and PvP gameplay simultaneously without separating the two. We are 100% committed to supporting a single unified game where mechanics and abilities work consistently, with the goal being for players to learn how play efficiently and be able to transfer those skills to other environments. This is one of the reasons we added CC immunities to monsters; when ESO originally launched, you could knock the same mudcrab down over and over. The balance changes we made in this update are aimed at making gameplay more interesting in all areas of the game. (...)
These two enviroments, PVE and PVP are diametrally different. In one we fight players with 20-30k HP dealing 5k-20k damage while in other we fight targets with 100 to milions of HP that deal up to 100k of damage.
Trying to balance it with changes affecting both at the same time is like trying to stabilise and Inverted Pendulum where on one end there is PVP balance and on another PVE balance and in the unachievable middle we have mythical "global balance".
How long it's been that developers were trying to achieve the PVE+PVP balance? One year, two years and counting - in meantime we've seen things nerfed and buffed back and forth from one patch to another - pretty much time wasted on running circles.
(an example of such change is how in Dark Brotherhood constitution passive was buffed to compensate PVE tanks for loss of bracing passive yet in Morrowind patch notes that change is basically being reverted because of complaints from PVP playerbase).
If that time, these months and years would have been spent by developers on overhauling PVP system in a way where it could be balanced 100% separately from PVE environment, we would be enjoying already (or very soon) a much better balance in completely separated fields of PVP and PVE where one system wont be hurting other players:
- no more PVP players complaining that power creep in PVE is runing their builds and abilities and other way around, no PVE players complaining that PVP complaints are inducing nerfs in abilities behaving perfectly fine in PVE
Wrong try again.