Magic Nightblade Megathread

casparian · May 2017

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

Oh god, I want to see numbers of new sipho attacks

Same here. I would really appreciate it if somebody who access to the new PTS could give us an update on the SA numbers. I actually think the skill sounds really cool with how it will function - a rally type restore skill. After thinking about it, I totally agree with what @NightbladeMechanics said above - the live version of SA is just too easy mode to use. The fact I feel like I can just easily recast it every time I LoS for a second shows how forgiving the skill is. This change makes it a lot more strategic and skillful to use which I can get behind. However, I am curious to see the numbers. And, as I have said 100 times before, I still IMPLORE ZoS to restore the duel magicka and stamina restore because it is so core to Magblade game play.

I agree as well, and look forward to testing the new version.

I also agree that the dual-resource restore needs to come back to nightblades -- whether by being added back to Siphoning Strikes or through some other means -- both because it is core to magblade gameplay and because every other class can get back stamina by spending something other than stamina. Before 3.0, every class could do this; after 3.0, every class except Nightblades can do this. Why remove this functionality specifically from Nightblades? Why remove it from any one class and let the others keep it?

Interesting. I hope this comment gets some visibility.

Me too I made a separate thread about it in hopes that some dev will notice it.

If S Strike gives dual resource.. then leaching strikes automatically becomes useless... I am note sure that's the directions the devs are going with this change....if they take your advice.. they need to rethink leaching strikes in to something else...

Leaching Strikes is already useless on live. They do need to fix it somehow, but removing a key mechanic from NBs that every other class gets to keep is not the right fix.

CavalryPK · May 2017

casparian wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

CavalryPK wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Pijng wrote: »

Oh god, I want to see numbers of new sipho attacks

Same here. I would really appreciate it if somebody who access to the new PTS could give us an update on the SA numbers. I actually think the skill sounds really cool with how it will function - a rally type restore skill. After thinking about it, I totally agree with what @NightbladeMechanics said above - the live version of SA is just too easy mode to use. The fact I feel like I can just easily recast it every time I LoS for a second shows how forgiving the skill is. This change makes it a lot more strategic and skillful to use which I can get behind. However, I am curious to see the numbers. And, as I have said 100 times before, I still IMPLORE ZoS to restore the duel magicka and stamina restore because it is so core to Magblade game play.

I agree as well, and look forward to testing the new version.

I also agree that the dual-resource restore needs to come back to nightblades -- whether by being added back to Siphoning Strikes or through some other means -- both because it is core to magblade gameplay and because every other class can get back stamina by spending something other than stamina. Before 3.0, every class could do this; after 3.0, every class except Nightblades can do this. Why remove this functionality specifically from Nightblades? Why remove it from any one class and let the others keep it?

Interesting. I hope this comment gets some visibility.

Me too I made a separate thread about it in hopes that some dev will notice it.

If S Strike gives dual resource.. then leaching strikes automatically becomes useless... I am note sure that's the directions the devs are going with this change....if they take your advice.. they need to rethink leaching strikes in to something else...

Leaching Strikes is already useless on live. They do need to fix it somehow, but removing a key mechanic from NBs that every other class gets to keep is not the right fix.

I agree with you. I think devs are aiming for two things:
1. give us a tough choice... you either choose stamina or magicka regen. (which sucks since we need the stam recovery really bad)
2. Fix the useless leaching strikes that has been collecting dust in the useless skills room for ages.

We probably have a better chance convincing them to give us what we want if we recommend suggestions that addresses points 1 and 2 mentioned above.

For example:

S Strike: now restores magicka and stamina. with the 3.0.2 numbers and mechanics.

Leaching strikes: Now resorts health and has a chance to affect the enemy with major defile for (or some kind of other debuff). I don't know.

if I was presented with this option... I would have a tough time deciding which one to pick.

Jitterbug · May 2017

CavalryPK wrote: »

Leaching strikes: Now resorts health and has a chance to affect the enemy with major defile for (or some kind of other debuff). I don't know.

I do.

Major Lifesteal.

thankyourat · May 2017

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I just solved all my MagNB problems last night.

After getting hit after hit after hit with ZOS's patches, then with what's coming down the pipe with Morrowind... I just can't do it anymore.

I created a MagNB when the game launched on consoles, ;it was my very first character in the game. Sure I also Main a Magplar and a MagSorc, but that very first MagNB, my first character; I held on to him with the hope that he would be "OK" again one day.

But such is not to be the case.

I deleted him. I just can't do it anymore.

Have you tried ganking? I've been ganking recently it's fun. Lol especially the salty messages.

Same boat rat, I made a super trolly spinners / ca / tremorscale gank build lol. Not bad open world but when I get caught it's basically over against any halfway competent small group.

Lol that does sound super annoying to come across open world. I'm having a hard time remembering I'm a ganker and that I need to run away if I don't get the kill. I been playing solo PvP for so long one day I just got burned out. I think I may try that gank build with tremorscale lol or just play a trolly perma cloak build that spams agony and crippling grasp on players lol.

thankyourat · May 2017

I think I may end up switching siphoning attacks for elemental drain on staff builds and just using a sustain set on melee builds. I just don't have faith that the new version of siphoning attacks will be worth anything. I'm hoping I'm wrong though. I feel like I'm going to have to spend more time in stealth with the lack of stamina return because I tend to block alot of CCs. that was one of magblades main strength. I just feel like magblade will be too squishy now without stamina return. if you like to run light armor it just seems like I will have to use cloak a lot more than I do in love

Xvorg · May 2017

quick syphon + SA + full heavy attack + full heavy armor.

Welcome to the new playing style...

Tryxus · May 2017

Maybe it'll ease the suffering a bit. On my main MagBlade (copied over):

- Siphoning costs 1176 Magicka
- Restores 1495 HP and 198 Magicka
- Restores 2415 Magicka when the effect ends

While the skill did become a shadow of its former self, the Magicka return did improve this patch and made it worthwhile to slot it again compared to last week:

- MagBlade wearing Seducer still running out of Magicka
- This week using my regular PvP setup (Necro) barely ran out

However, as explained in another thread, the new Siphoning Attacks still has a drawback: you don't gain the Magicka if you refresh the skill too early.

So the skill still needs a bit of finetuning (making the Magicka return time based, like the heal from Rally for instance?) , but I think it's back on the right track

bigheadsfork · May 2017

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

bubbygink · May 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

Maybe it'll ease the suffering a bit. On my main MagBlade (copied over):

- Siphoning costs 1176 Magicka
- Restores 1495 HP and 198 Magicka
- Restores 2415 Magicka when the effect ends

While the skill did become a shadow of its former self, the Magicka return did improve this patch and made it worthwhile to slot it again compared to last week:

- MagBlade wearing Seducer still running out of Magicka
- This week using my regular PvP setup (Necro) barely ran out

However, as explained in another thread, the new Siphoning Attacks still has a drawback: you don't gain the Magicka if you refresh the skill too early.

So the skill still needs a bit of finetuning (making the Magicka return time based, like the heal from Rally for instance?) , but I think it's back on the right track

These numbers are pretty uninspiring. The 198 magicka per weave is minuscule and is much less return per light attack than the free to cast Elemental Drain. And you get the 2415 magicka ONLY if you let the effect run out which isn't even enough to cast another shield if needed - I certainly wouldn't say it is a "significant amount of magicka" like the patch notes do.

The patch notes also say it "now take(s) fewer attacks to recoup the cost" but this doesn't appear to be true at all. If it costs 1176 magicka and gives back just 198 then it still takes 6 light attacks to even recoup the original cost.

And of course, as we've all been saying, it still doesn't address the core issue here - Magblades have NO way to recoup stamina. We are now the only class that doesn't have a way to do so.

Xvorg · May 2017

bubbygink wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Maybe it'll ease the suffering a bit. On my main MagBlade (copied over):

- Siphoning costs 1176 Magicka
- Restores 1495 HP and 198 Magicka
- Restores 2415 Magicka when the effect ends

While the skill did become a shadow of its former self, the Magicka return did improve this patch and made it worthwhile to slot it again compared to last week:

- MagBlade wearing Seducer still running out of Magicka
- This week using my regular PvP setup (Necro) barely ran out

However, as explained in another thread, the new Siphoning Attacks still has a drawback: you don't gain the Magicka if you refresh the skill too early.

So the skill still needs a bit of finetuning (making the Magicka return time based, like the heal from Rally for instance?) , but I think it's back on the right track

These numbers are pretty uninspiring. The 198 magicka per weave is minuscule and is much less return per light attack than the free to cast Elemental Drain. And you get the 2415 magicka ONLY if you let the effect run out which isn't even enough to cast another shield if needed - I certainly wouldn't say it is a "significant amount of magicka" like the patch notes do.

The patch notes also say it "now take(s) fewer attacks to recoup the cost" but this doesn't appear to be true at all. If it costs 1176 magicka and gives back just 198 then it still takes 6 light attacks to even recoup the original cost.

And of course, as we've all been saying, it still doesn't address the core issue here - Magblades have NO way to recoup stamina. We are now the only class that doesn't have a way to do so.

We all know Wrobel doesn't Maths

Tryxus · May 2017

bubbygink wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

Maybe it'll ease the suffering a bit. On my main MagBlade (copied over):

- Siphoning costs 1176 Magicka
- Restores 1495 HP and 198 Magicka
- Restores 2415 Magicka when the effect ends

While the skill did become a shadow of its former self, the Magicka return did improve this patch and made it worthwhile to slot it again compared to last week:

- MagBlade wearing Seducer still running out of Magicka
- This week using my regular PvP setup (Necro) barely ran out

However, as explained in another thread, the new Siphoning Attacks still has a drawback: you don't gain the Magicka if you refresh the skill too early.

So the skill still needs a bit of finetuning (making the Magicka return time based, like the heal from Rally for instance?) , but I think it's back on the right track

These numbers are pretty uninspiring. The 198 magicka per weave is minuscule and is much less return per light attack than the free to cast Elemental Drain. And you get the 2415 magicka ONLY if you let the effect run out which isn't even enough to cast another shield if needed - I certainly wouldn't say it is a "significant amount of magicka" like the patch notes do.

The patch notes also say it "now take(s) fewer attacks to recoup the cost" but this doesn't appear to be true at all. If it costs 1176 magicka and gives back just 198 then it still takes 6 light attacks to even recoup the original cost.

And of course, as we've all been saying, it still doesn't address the core issue here - Magblades have NO way to recoup stamina. We are now the only class that doesn't have a way to do so.

I think the most needed improvements of Siphoning Attacks should be:

- Raise the time to 24 Secs for better synergy with DPS rotations
- Have the Magicka return be time-based (like Rally's heal)

The 198 Magicka does seem minuscule, but with Magickasteal and synergies in PvE it does begin to add up. It's still not as great as it used to be though...

However, you are right about the loss of stamina return, with NB now being the only class not able to do so. Which also puts a damper on Sap Tanking unfortunately. Maybe this could be added to another skill?

Code2501 · May 2017

I don't use SA on live and won't be using this new version. Nothing about it makes me want to give up a skill slot for it.

stealthyevil · May 2017

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

I would argue that survivability on a nightblade is pretty good once you cloak and LoS properly. Especially with the siphoning attacks change to restore health that can crit (Ignoring the resource sustain issues). If you keep funnel health + refreshing path and stay aggressive and shield/shade/cloak when u need then as magicka you should heal fairly well. Stamina imo is easier considering they have rally available, pop vigor + rally and cloak and just keep the pressure on.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

Code2501 · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

Code2501 · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

True enough.
Last time I pvped a stamblade was 1.5 and they have improved since then with weapon hot options and ults scaling on stam but still arent able to layer heals as well as a magblade can.

stealthyevil · May 2017

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

True enough.
Last time I pvped a stamblade was 1.5 and they have improved since then with weapon hot options and ults scaling on stam but still arent able to layer heals as well as a magblade can.

I dunno man, I wouldn't really call funnel health and refreshing path "layering" considering that funnel relies on your damage done (what if you hit a shield or blocking target) and path requires you to stand in it. Oh, and don't even get me started on the unreliability of healing ward, don't worry you will get that clutch cast once u respawn at transit. Assuming a stamblade is running 2h/bow (what I would consider to be "meta") they would be running two pretty consistent heals vigor and rally. Vigor ticks are consistent and scale off your stats, rally gets a bigger burst heal over a longer duration, so I don't think stamblade is any less capable of healing through damage, especially given they have alot better damage avoidance with more dodges available to them.

Br1ckst0n · May 2017

Death Stroke and morphs

Let this ability scale off the amount of ultimate you have again. This was an interesting mechanic and i would like to see it brought back.

Assassin's Blade and morphs

Make the Killer's Blade morph ranged and give Impale some other extra functionality.

Mark target and morphs

Currently only Piercing Mark is used and that only to counter other nightblades. Id like to see this skill being useful against all classes. As for Reaping Mark i would buff the duration of major berzerk to around 8-10 seconds.

Grim Focus and morphs

The spectral bow is very clunky to use as also mentioned in the thread (remove cast time). In group pve the 8% damage buff proves little to no value since you can get the same buff from combat prayer. I like the idea of automatically recasting the ability upon firing the spectral bow.

Executioner (Passive)

Change this to using an execute ability on the target within 2 seconds before it dies. Makes it more useful for group play.

Bolstering Darkness morph

There are next to no people using this morph. Either make it more healer oriented or more useful for tanks or make it stick to you like eye of the storm.

Veiled Strike and morphs

Move the movement speed bonus from concealed weapon to shadow cloak and totally rework the ability.

Shadow Cloak and morphs

Ofc this ability needs about 1 million bugfixes still. Dark cloak morph is totally useless atm, i also suggest reverting the ability to removing debuffs. I'd like to see the ramping up cost from streak and dodge roll added to the base skill and morphs.

Manifestation of Terror morph

Still pretty much nobody uses this. Let is apply minor vulnerability to the target to the target for 5 seconds and see if that changes anything.

Dark Shades morph

Another useless morph, can be reworked completely. Not sure what to do though.

Soul Siphon morph

A very position based healing ultimate. First of all this should give major mending instead of major vitality as it is a healing ultimate. Should give some other buff to allies to make it stronger.

Strife and morphs

Personally i would like to see Funnel Health changed back to 2 targets but its also not that important. Swallow Soul should be reworked into a healer skill to make nightblade healers more viable. Alternatively Funnel Health could be the healing skill and Swallow Soul could be a dps morph without healing.

Agony and morphs

These 30 seconds stun skills are completely pointless and should be reworked.

Debilitate morph

Change this to a stamina dot.

Siphoning Strikes and morphs

Revert the PTS change to the base skill and the Siphoning Attacks morph. Leeching Strikes morph could be a healer and tank skill that only returns resources on ability casts but less than Siphoning Attacks does.

Power Extraction morph

Just a weaker steel tornado atm. The morph doesnt even have to be a stamina one, could also just be a magicka version without healing and with more damage. Could also be a healer or tank skill.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

stealthyevil wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

True enough.
Last time I pvped a stamblade was 1.5 and they have improved since then with weapon hot options and ults scaling on stam but still arent able to layer heals as well as a magblade can.

I dunno man, I wouldn't really call funnel health and refreshing path "layering" considering that funnel relies on your damage done (what if you hit a shield or blocking target) and path requires you to stand in it. Oh, and don't even get me started on the unreliability of healing ward, don't worry you will get that clutch cast once u respawn at transit. Assuming a stamblade is running 2h/bow (what I would consider to be "meta") they would be running two pretty consistent heals vigor and rally. Vigor ticks are consistent and scale off your stats, rally gets a bigger burst heal over a longer duration, so I don't think stamblade is any less capable of healing through damage, especially given they have alot better damage avoidance with more dodges available to them.

So attack with funnel, and stand on path? I've topped 8k funnel health ticks in PvP on allies with my crit damage builds. If you hit shields or blocking targets, you keep attacking and get under them via burst or fear. Path heals for more per second than rapid regen, and standing on it comes naturally for brawly builds. Healing ward can be inconsistent if you're taking high burst or playing in a large group, but you could just run annulment if you need a reliable shield. I don't think you realize just how strong mageblade healing can be.

Edit: true layering of hots would include degeneration, which people underestimate, mutagen, and ults like tether, bats, and resto ult. Those are optional skills though.

HEBREWHAMMERRR · May 2017

Oops messed up quotes

HEBREWHAMMERRR · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I just solved all my MagNB problems last night.

After getting hit after hit after hit with ZOS's patches, then with what's coming down the pipe with Morrowind... I just can't do it anymore.

I created a MagNB when the game launched on consoles, ;it was my very first character in the game. Sure I also Main a Magplar and a MagSorc, but that very first MagNB, my first character; I held on to him with the hope that he would be "OK" again one day.

But such is not to be the case.

I deleted him. I just can't do it anymore.

Have you tried ganking? I've been ganking recently it's fun. Lol especially the salty messages.

Same boat rat, I made a super trolly spinners / ca / tremorscale gank build lol. Not bad open world but when I get caught it's basically over against any halfway competent small group.

Oh....god....this sounds obnoxious.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Av2fEBu7iWUfgTnkbDhBh3J9q3AS

It's very obnoxious and surprisingly effective. I'll make a small montage soon but here's a clip from last night. Obviously I was set for full ganking with soul assault but my two buddies were along with me and we pulled a small Zerg haha you can see the decent sustain, harrassment and burst potential of it though and that's without mass hysteria on. @thankyourat @NightbladeMechanics

Shoutout to them heals messing around with chokethorn @SneaK

SneaK · May 2017

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Av2fEBu7iWUfgTnkbDhBh3J9q3AS

It's very obnoxious and surprisingly effective. I'll make a small montage soon but here's a clip from last night. Obviously I was set for full ganking with soul assault but my two buddies were along with me and we pulled a small Zerg haha you can see the decent sustain, harrassment and burst potential of it though and that's without mass hysteria on. @thankyourat @NightbladeMechanics

Shoutout to them heals messing around with chokethorn @SneaK

(Chokethorn) Still can't decide how good it is.. Fun fight even though was in full healbot mode 90% of it.

stealthyevil · May 2017

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

True enough.
Last time I pvped a stamblade was 1.5 and they have improved since then with weapon hot options and ults scaling on stam but still arent able to layer heals as well as a magblade can.

I dunno man, I wouldn't really call funnel health and refreshing path "layering" considering that funnel relies on your damage done (what if you hit a shield or blocking target) and path requires you to stand in it. Oh, and don't even get me started on the unreliability of healing ward, don't worry you will get that clutch cast once u respawn at transit. Assuming a stamblade is running 2h/bow (what I would consider to be "meta") they would be running two pretty consistent heals vigor and rally. Vigor ticks are consistent and scale off your stats, rally gets a bigger burst heal over a longer duration, so I don't think stamblade is any less capable of healing through damage, especially given they have alot better damage avoidance with more dodges available to them.

So attack with funnel, and stand on path? I've topped 8k funnel health ticks in PvP on allies with my crit damage builds. If you hit shields or blocking targets, you keep attacking and get under them via burst or fear. Path heals for more per second than rapid regen, and standing on it comes naturally for brawly builds. Healing ward can be inconsistent if you're taking high burst or playing in a large group, but you could just run annulment if you need a reliable shield. I don't think you realize just how strong mageblade healing can be.

Edit: true layering of hots would include degeneration, which people underestimate, mutagen, and ults like tether, bats, and resto ult. Those are optional skills though.

I fully understand where you are coming from and 100% agree with you. What I'm trying to get at is, there are underlying conditions you have to meet to achieve great sustained healing, you work for your heals (Funnel, Path, Siphoning [3.0.0] etc) or its up to RNG sometimes (Degen), that is why IMO magic NB played right is a very high skill capp'd class. Where as, vigor is a heal based on your stats, has no underlying conditions, just cast it and let it tick. Rally has an underlying condition that makes it a bigger burst over a longer duration. Funnel's healing is based on damage done (which is not hard to achieve since you are dps'ing during an encounter anyways) path has great heals but is reliant on you standing in it (if you use it right its great because of shadow passives, major exp etc), I use degeneration because its healing component is underrated but again that's a 15% chance on a LA/HA.

CavalryPK · May 2017

stealthyevil wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

stealthyevil wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

Code2501 wrote: »

NightbladeMechanics wrote: »

bigheadsfork wrote: »

I know this thread is about Magblades, but one of my biggest issues with NB builds is lack of healing and survivability. I have seen a lot of people in my guilds and in zone chat complaining about it, and all of my NB builds have problems with it as well. Funnel health does not restore enough health at higher levels and neither does refreshing path. Stam NBs are forced to acquire Vigor asap, and I've seen a lot of people complain they still can't survive even with vigor. Some skill like vigor needs to be included in one of the skill trees, or siphoning strikes could restore health. There is also a lack of shields for the NB class. I have talked to many players who have given up on their NB characters because of these problems.

Nightblades have the best tools in the game for avoiding damage. Do not expect to heal through damage outright. They're not designed for that. Use the tools at your disposal to be evasive and avoid damage from the start.

I 'heal through' damage outright all the time when soloing WB's and group dungeons. Ref path, swallow soul and sap essence will let you heal through a lot. If that does not work just throw on a LA Dampen shield now and then to give your hots time to catch up and drop veil when under serious burst.
With those skills on a bar mag NB can 'heal through' most anything with the right gear and still be putting out damage the whole time.

If you want a brawling NB you just need to play with layered hots always ticking and learn when to 'ramp up'.

I am replying to a stamblade PvPer in that post (context). Stamblades lack healing compared to other classes and rely on positioning and avoidance mechanics like cloak, shade, and roll dodge in PvP.

Mageblades wish they could rely on avoidance mechanics in PvP...but without snare and root immunity are left either shield stacking like a gimped sorc (and failing) or wearing heavy armor, mitigation buffs, and layering heals over time, becoming more of a sap tanky blood mage play style.

True enough.
Last time I pvped a stamblade was 1.5 and they have improved since then with weapon hot options and ults scaling on stam but still arent able to layer heals as well as a magblade can.

I dunno man, I wouldn't really call funnel health and refreshing path "layering" considering that funnel relies on your damage done (what if you hit a shield or blocking target) and path requires you to stand in it. Oh, and don't even get me started on the unreliability of healing ward, don't worry you will get that clutch cast once u respawn at transit. Assuming a stamblade is running 2h/bow (what I would consider to be "meta") they would be running two pretty consistent heals vigor and rally. Vigor ticks are consistent and scale off your stats, rally gets a bigger burst heal over a longer duration, so I don't think stamblade is any less capable of healing through damage, especially given they have alot better damage avoidance with more dodges available to them.

So attack with funnel, and stand on path? I've topped 8k funnel health ticks in PvP on allies with my crit damage builds. If you hit shields or blocking targets, you keep attacking and get under them via burst or fear. Path heals for more per second than rapid regen, and standing on it comes naturally for brawly builds. Healing ward can be inconsistent if you're taking high burst or playing in a large group, but you could just run annulment if you need a reliable shield. I don't think you realize just how strong mageblade healing can be.

Edit: true layering of hots would include degeneration, which people underestimate, mutagen, and ults like tether, bats, and resto ult. Those are optional skills though.

I fully understand where you are coming from and 100% agree with you. What I'm trying to get at is, there are underlying conditions you have to meet to achieve great sustained healing, you work for your heals (Funnel, Path, Siphoning [3.0.0] etc) or its up to RNG sometimes (Degen), that is why IMO magic NB played right is a very high skill capp'd class. Where as, vigor is a heal based on your stats, has no underlying conditions, just cast it and let it tick. Rally has an underlying condition that makes it a bigger burst over a longer duration. Funnel's healing is based on damage done (which is not hard to achieve since you are dps'ing during an encounter anyways) path has great heals but is reliant on you standing in it (if you use it right its great because of shadow passives, major exp etc), I use degeneration because its healing component is underrated but again that's a 15% chance on a LA/HA.

I actually prefer that it take longer to master a magblade then any other class. If it was changed then every one would be a magblade .... and i want to feel like a unicorn.

arkansas_ESO · May 2017

@Wrobel In response to today's ESO Live:

As of right now on live, every single class has some way to restore stamina through class skills. Templar has Repentance, Dragonknight has Helping Hands and Battle Roar, Sorcerer has Dark Deal, and Nightblade has Siphoning Attacks.

As of right now on PTS, every class apart from Nightblade has the way to exchange magicka for stamina or obtain stamina for free (in the case of Warden.)

This idea that you don't want to "homogenize the classes" by letting magic NBs have the tools to manage their stam pool is just silly. We already had the ability on live to do it, everybody on live has the ability to do it. Why can't we at least have the cost from Siphoning Attacks/Strikes removed so that we can opt for giving up magic sustain for stamina sustain, like Wardens? We can't afford to spend half of our stamina pool just to restore stamina 20 seconds later.

NightbladeMechanics · May 2017

Stamina management was a distinguishing class strength of magicka nightblade until this pts.