Why are Nightblades now the only class that cannot exchange other resources for stamina?

casparian

With the changes to Siphoning Strikes and its morphs, Nightblades are now the only class that cannot get stamina back without first spending stamina. Dragonknights (though nerfed) still have Battle Roar and Earthen Heart, Sorcerers still have Dark Deal, and Templars have Repentance and Luminous Shards. Wardens, of course, get stamina back in exchange for nothing but a global cooldown.

This disparity has been mentioned in multiple threads over the past couple of weeks, so I won't belabor the reasons why this is a large imbalance between the classes. Here is one excellent feedback thread and here is another and here is a third.

I appreciate the changes in 3.0.2, since in 3.0.1 the math on Siphoning Strikes simply didn't add up. Now the cost of the skill is actually worth the reward. That does not change the fact that a key sustain mechanic (getting back stamina in exchange for something other than stamina) that every other class has, even after the sustain rebalancing, was removed from Siphoning Strikes without explanation. I understand that any further changes to Siphoning Strikes will need to retain the need to heavy attack in order to sustain resources. But with this new change, magicka nightblades are now the only magicka class that cannot regain stamina without heavy attacking with a melee weapon (or running an absorb stamina enchantment or poison).

Is there something specific about Nightblades that would make this otherwise universal functionality overpowered in their case? I understand that Siphoning Strikes now includes a small heal, but please note the universally puzzled response to this change in the threads I linked -- Nightblades already have extremely strong healing-over-time potential, and the addition of another small HOT is a hardly a worthwhile consolation prize for losing a functionality that every other class has.

Why was this key functionality removed from one class and one class only?

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

WalksonGraves

Zos saw overperforming sorcs and underperforming nbs and in their wisdom nerfed the weakest class right out of existence.

kadar

Is there something specific about Nightblades that would make this otherwise universal functionality overpowered in their case? I understand that Siphoning Strikes now includes a small heal, but please note the universally puzzled response to this change in the threads I linked -- Nightblades already have extremely strong healing-over-time potential, and the addition of another small HOT is a hardly a worthwhile consolation prize for losing a functionality that every other class has.

Emphasis on small. Compare this healing component to the passive healing from Crit surge for example. Scrap the healing and return to the old functionality or buff the healing to a meaningful value (especially in Cyro where it's halved by Battle Spirit).

WalksonGraves

The_Outsider wrote: »

Is there something specific about Nightblades that would make this otherwise universal functionality overpowered in their case? I understand that Siphoning Strikes now includes a small heal, but please note the universally puzzled response to this change in the threads I linked -- Nightblades already have extremely strong healing-over-time potential, and the addition of another small HOT is a hardly a worthwhile consolation prize for losing a functionality that every other class has.

Emphasis on small. Compare this healing component to the passive healing from Crit surge for example. Scrap the healing and return to the old functionality or buff the healing to a meaningful value (especially in Cyro where it's halved by Battle Spirit).

I was so angry when I realized both templar and sorcs have better passive self heals from dps than the siphoning tree.

Jitterbug

I'm just gonna use my powers of bumping on this. Good catch @casparian

Could someone on the combat team pass this to @Wrobel

Omgwtfbbq321

As a Magckia Nightblade, I do not need another heal over time. My main DPS Skill (Strikes) heals me more than enough and Healing Ward is so insanely powerful I don’t take damage seriously.

However, what I DO NEED is a way to return/sustain Stamina without dumping 100 CP into recovery and taking a Mundus stone. The old system of Strikes used to return both resources and worked very well for this. Now I must choose to drop Magicka sustain for the Stamina morph and still struggle.

This is a PVP char, when CC'd I would break free then light attack to refill Stamina before immunity wore off. Now with the lower return and (IMO) pointless burst return on buff expire (Which I try to avoid letting things run out) I will likely Ignore this skill.

Strikes needed balancing, not destroying.

*ThisIsJustMyOpinionAndIsSubjectTChangeInTheFutureIfAfterTryingChangesThingsSeemDifferentBlaBlaLegalStaff*

JimT722

Siphoning strikes was strong... perhaps too strong. I feel that sustain and self healing were the only strengths of nightblade. I don't know if I will continue playing nightblade after these changes, the self healing from this skill won't be worthwhile.

I already have way too much self healing. Damage isn't amazing on nightblade. I like nightblade because it has staying power. At least magicka nightblade does. What to do with this character now.

Cathexis

Because you have cloak.
Yes this is the answer.
Yes you haven't thought about this.
This is not a thing that is a discussion.


(Also I've rolled a nightblade, so of course they are nerfing it. That's why I'm making a temp and a dk too, so we get a nice even spread of nerfs)

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Zos saw overperforming sorcs and underperforming nbs and in their wisdom nerfed the weakest class right out of existence.

Are you joking?? Nightblades can 1 button ult spam right now.

WalksonGraves

Cathexis wrote: »

Because you have cloak.
Yes this is the answer.
Yes you haven't thought about this.
This is not a thing that is a discussion.


(Also I've rolled a nightblade, so of course they are nerfing it. That's why I'm making a temp and a dk too, so we get a nice even spread of nerfs)

WalksonGraves wrote: »

Zos saw overperforming sorcs and underperforming nbs and in their wisdom nerfed the weakest class right out of existence.

Are you joking?? Nightblades can 1 button ult spam right now.

Are you joking with cloak? No idea what you are going on about with ult spamming, that is hardly a nb exclusive.

Americanfunguy

I agree that siphon could be strong but I think the way they are going about it is all wrong.

And for those thinking that stam and magblades are not good for dps, really need to look into real dps. My stam blade pulls 39k dps on a target dummy (only puncture buff) with 50k dps in trial settings. And my magblade pulled 40k dps on a dummy (only ele) with 52k in trial settings.

This nerf is going to be huge mostly in pvp in my opinion.

But I think that the complete removal of stamina return for one more and magicka return for another morph really hurts the class from its current standpoint.

WalksonGraves

Americanfunguy wrote: »

I agree that siphon could be strong but I think the way they are going about it is all wrong.

And for those thinking that stam and magblades are not good for dps, really need to look into real dps. My stam blade pulls 39k dps on a target dummy (only puncture buff) with 50k dps in trial settings. And my magblade pulled 40k dps on a dummy (only ele) with 52k in trial settings.

This nerf is going to be huge mostly in pvp in my opinion.

But I think that the complete removal of stamina return for one more and magicka return for another morph really hurts the class from its current standpoint.

You have proof for those numbers? I mean I'd love to believe it but you're basically saying nb can dps as well as sorcs.