PTS Feedback Thread for Class Balance
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t3hdubzy✭✭✭✭I hear some valid arguments. But ate any of you folks testing this on PTS? Im interested in hearing from PTS users about their experiencd.2 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
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Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭About Sorcs:
ZOS, tell me, how many months in a row we should try to make you understand that Dark Exchange cost must be charged if it's interrupted successfully? Don't wanna do that? OK, make so it won't restore half of the caster's health so they can't just stand there and cast it over and over! This ability has 'counterplay' you say. But, you know, constantly wasting resources (which we now don't have) on bashing the enemy instead of anything else is not counterplay.
UPD: A bit of maths from PTS. Now you've made DK stamina restore from Helping Hnads a flat value. One cast of Igneous Shield costs you near 4k magicka, gives you like an 8k shield on stamina build and restores 990 stamina. Dark Deal costs 3.2k. And it heals you for 8k and restores nearly 5k stamina. 5000 is five times more than 990. Does anyone really think that 1 sec cast time justifies that?
@ZOS_GinaBruno I'm not sure this can be called class balance. This is class domination.
now compare that to siphoning strike that makes you light attack 7 times in under 20 secs just to BREAK EVEN with it's casting cost!!!!
Edited by aeowulf on April 20, 2017 2:19PM2 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »and just because there aren't any changes to Dark Exchange, or the Sorc passives, doesn't mean they aren't going to take as much of a sustain hit as other classes.
are you nuts? every class gets affected by CP/magickasteal changes. sorcs are not affected further, every other class IS affected further.
NB sustain has basically been removed from the game in this patch, magickasteal reduced by 25% which affects templars the most as they have a class skill with it, and dk's are reduced or potentially boosted now with helping hands changes. The ultimate is meant to be an ultimate so tbh they should probably just leave those things alone. they are meant to have a big impact.
Edited by aeowulf on April 20, 2017 2:28PM3 -
Ivan04✭✭✭✭Wardens have 6 second major mending buff exactly when they need it, and it only procs at 50% health, which is huge. Nice way to make the new class popular - make it the only good option for tanks. DKs have been basically stomped on with Major Mending change, because despite having decent healing recieved they are just not a tank class anymore, with major mending lasting for max. 2 seconds while in a fight. This is not what being a tank is about. I don't want to have to rely on my sloth healer to put BoL on me when I cast my 2 second shield. Sorcs still have crit surge, and that basically makes them have better healing recieved than DKs now.2 -
Ivan04✭✭✭✭Dark Deal is a broken no-skill ability that should never have been buffed this much in the first place.3
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Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time
Dont mistake mSorc playing defensively with blazing tank or block casting BoL templar. The sorc has amazing dps and can kill you at any time. So it is not just you can leave him and go on another target.Because I can!4 -
Zarrakon✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time
Dont mistake mSorc playing defensively with blazing tank or block casting BoL templar. The sorc has amazing dps and can kill you at any time. So it is not just you can leave him and go on another target.
Why would you leave them alone? Run the sorc out of magicka - with these latest changes that should take what, 10 seconds at most? If there are 2 targets, one of which is a sorc, and you're solo, don't target the sorc - otherwise, one person keeps some pressure on the sorc and he'll be useless and/or dead in 10 seconds. Sorcerers don't have a great burst (have you played a nightblade?), it takes them time to setup/do their damage, so they need something to counter the initial burst of other classes.
I'm a sorcerer who slots (only one) shield to stay alive. If someone ambushes me (e.g. most stamblades), it's 50/50 on whether or not I can get a shield off before I'm dead. When I get a shield off, I can usually live through one person's initial burst by keeping it up and not doing anything else. I'm also dumping at least 50% of my magicka into living through the initial burst when I'm facing a competent player, and this is on live. All of this is just to get a CHANCE at fighting back; once I start actually fighting, I have to stop casting shield (especially since I'm very low on magicka at this point), and I'm not guaranteed to win the fight.
If I tried using another shield, I'd be out of magicka even faster (especially with PTS changes). The only thing that might keep me up longer is harness magicka, but that would only be a good substitute against a magicka-based character, who incidentally can also use harness magicka just as effectively against me.1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »About the Sorcerer :
It's funny to see how much people complain about sorc not getting nerf in the class skill, in factn they are enough nerf, LOG ON ON PTS to try it.
Why sorc are not nerfed in class skills :
Mobility :
Streak costing 21% ( 16% less from cp - 5% less from light armor) more : now just think that skill have a 50% cost increase each time you cast it within 4s => Mobility take serious nerf.
Shields :
It cost about 11k (= 30% of max pool) magicka after sorc sustain passive to use the 3 shields, and when you are it 3 times, harness give you magicka back so it's become a 7.7k cost for stacking all your shield.
Now think theze shields only last 6s and you need to recast it forever. Before harness magicka gave you nearly enough magicka to cast a hardened + a harness. Now, it's far from that.
Damage :
Sorc is already running a damage set and a sustain set. With the spamable defense sorc have, they are very affected by recovery and magicka cost increase, sorcs will reduce their damage or they will not be able to sustain streak and no free shieldstack.
Sustain :
Sorc only have dark deal for sustain, but casting a more expensive stamina skill, when you have a dodge roll and break free cps seperate make this skill extremely hard to use, sorc will run OOS faster and a no stamina sorc is a dead sorc.
Conclusion :
Even if sorc didn't receive direct class nerfs, they are affected a lot, and more than other, because sorc is made for spaming shield and streak and they are now punished for do it.
Before speaking, go to the PTS and try it
Atleast sorcs can still run a damage set. As well as an overpowered damage reduction set that was hardly changed. Also the heals for stamina classes were just increased by 30% along with the cost reduction nerfs making vigor and one dodge roll with a block take up an entire stamina pool. A second dodge roll and we are completely unable to CC break. Let alone this is where our sprint and damage come from as well we will basically be on CC away from death every time.
Also, I don't see the section where sorcs shields got increased? Therefore you still have your main defence at roughly the same cost (minus champion changes) while stamina survivability, which was already lackluster, was made even harder. Espeically for classes like stam dk that relied on things such as major mending, or even night blade that relied on things like dodge roll and sneak.
Same cost? You crazy? Sorcs lost 16% cost reduction on shields from CP and another 5% from Light Armor passives. Shields on PTS cost over 3.5k for Hardened Ward, 4.5k for Harness and 4.5k for Healing Ward. Harness used to refund basically the whole cost of casting Hardened and Harness. With 42k magicka (and the magicka return scales with your max magicka) I have a return of 1.2k per magic damage 3 times. That's 3.6k "effective cost reduction". Your 3 shields will cost a little less than 1/3 of your magicka pool to cast. That's the most expensive defense out of any class considering they have to be actively reapplied every 6 seconds. With 2k recovery, you get 6k magicka back in 6 seconds. The return from Harness gives another 3.6k. We have 9.6k magicka restored over 6 seconds, which is still less than what the shields cost (12k with the cost reduction passives in Light Armor and Sorc passives). And that's in a situation where your shields last their full duration (aka you aren't taking any damage). Sorcs are suffering from these cost reduction changes a lot, arguably more than the other classes.
Umm....Shields don't cost that on PTS either
Hardened Ward with 5/1/1 and ZERO cost reduction on any of my gear is 2879 Cost, Harnessed is 3764 Cost. (Healing Ward is the same)
So either you didn't spec your guy or you're giving the wrong numbers on purpose.
That's the base value of shields with max CP and no cost reduction passives. You have Light Armor cost reduction passives and most likely the Sorc cost reduction passive, which gives you in total 15% cost reduction. That alone brings the base cost close to the values you described. Also you're a Breton.
The base cost of shields are: 3510 Hardened, 4590 Harness, 4590 Healing.
Lets take Hardened: 3510 x 0.85 = 2983.5 that's with just the Sorc passive and the Light Armor passive. Lets check Breton: 3510 x 0.82 = 2878.2
So you're a Breton and you have all the Cost Reduction passives. No wonder you're not getting the same numbers as me. I was talking about the base cost of shields being high.
Stop this bullsh** racial passives don't work on the pts right now. You just want to state that sorcs are crap so that ZoS doesn't nerf them even though they are already the strongest class for both Stam and mag dps and for pvp.
Sorcs deserve to be crap for one patch so that anyone who mains a sorc realises who good they were and stop this stupid defence for sorcs that they are not viable
Wait. Racials are not working on PTS? I could have swore I saw a difference.
Actually; I am quite sure it did.Edited by technohic on April 20, 2017 3:39PM0 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templates don't have racials ATM, copied characters do.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk1 -
ap1230✭In general, what are your thoughts on the class balance in this update?
My thoughts are: the dev team's definition of balance wildly varies from mine and the community's.1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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You sound like you don't know how to play a sorc.Actually a sorc has better burst than a magica Nb.Everyone know you won't run a good sorc out of magica you target there stam pool.Unless they are running amberplasm then it's just going to be a endless fight.A magblade burst have to be setup and on a time limit and based on light attacks to proc your burst move which is merc resolve which can be dodged or blocked.Force pulse its harder than swallow soul.Sorc burst is all delayed burst so you can shield and slot curse than you shielding can help you proc a frag.It sounds like you just plainly don't know what your doing on a sorc.There no reason you magic should get that low that quickly with one shield you need to work on you build.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time
Dont mistake mSorc playing defensively with blazing tank or block casting BoL templar. The sorc has amazing dps and can kill you at any time. So it is not just you can leave him and go on another target.
Why would you leave them alone? Run the sorc out of magicka - with these latest changes that should take what, 10 seconds at most? If there are 2 targets, one of which is a sorc, and you're solo, don't target the sorc - otherwise, one person keeps some pressure on the sorc and he'll be useless and/or dead in 10 seconds. Sorcerers don't have a great burst (have you played a nightblade?), it takes them time to setup/do their damage, so they need something to counter the initial burst of other classes.
I'm a sorcerer who slots (only one) shield to stay alive. If someone ambushes me (e.g. most stamblades), it's 50/50 on whether or not I can get a shield off before I'm dead. When I get a shield off, I can usually live through one person's initial burst by keeping it up and not doing anything else. I'm also dumping at least 50% of my magicka into living through the initial burst when I'm facing a competent player, and this is on live. All of this is just to get a CHANCE at fighting back; once I start actually fighting, I have to stop casting shield (especially since I'm very low on magicka at this point), and I'm not guaranteed to win the fight.
If I tried using another shield, I'd be out of magicka even faster (especially with PTS changes). The only thing that might keep me up longer is harness magicka, but that would only be a good substitute against a magicka-based character, who incidentally can also use harness magicka just as effectively against me.
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Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You need to look at certain Warden skills who outperform anything else in the game.
Take Dive as an example. It deals significantly more damage than force pulse, is significantly cheaper and is unreflectable as well. And that's just one comparison.
Crystallized shield is probably the most overpowered Warden ability. Not only does it negate any projectile damage, but it also restores magicka and can shoot projectiles back. I think it's better than reflective scales and defensive stance in any way. It's just way too good.
Please, no P2W class.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos8 -
Danse_Mayhem✭✭✭✭AWESOME patch update Gina!
I reckon these big changes will be amazing for Pvp especially and cause teams to have to play the mechanics of PVE instead of just burning past everything with insane Deeps!
One thing I want... And I doubt ANYONE will disagree with me here... Please pretty PLEASE give us a useful alternative morph to Soul tether on the nightblade! Soul Siphon is the other morph that's so useless that barely anyone even knows what it does lol.
Extend the duration of the heal to 8 seconds instead of 4? Change the heal to a group stealth + major expedition for small scale movements? Maybe an AOE debuff like minor / major maim or defile??
In addition to this, prolonged suffering is the only morph worth using of Agony... Malefic wrath is not only awful, but barely different enough from agony to even call it a morph lol.
Do you think these things will eventually be looked at?
Cheeeers!▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＣＯＭＭＥＮＴ ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣＹ！
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YouTube.com/DarkProjectMayhem1 -
Hurika✭✭✭✭Copy my response to shields from another thread....
The poster I replied to made these statements so I went with those numbers.
2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up
Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right?
My response explaining why it's a problem.
Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.
Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).
CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else (Amberplasm is a good example of this).
So while magic and stam regen both took a nerf, vigor also took a nerf so the attacker will deplete resources even quicker than before. Stam abilities costs also were increased in general while shields were not. Also simply ignoring the highest DPS class is probably not a good counter. Any argument related to getting ganked is also not really valid as they are nerfing damage from attacks from stealth.
Having the ability to use 1 GCD to negate 2-3 GCD of attacks indefinitely sets the risk to almost 0 while still allowing significant dps.
3 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'll explain the issue best I can right now.
You basically removed what made DragonKnights/Templar being able to compete in PvP
And Left Sorcs alone, I can get pretty much the same cost Reduction I have right now on Live on PTS by simply swapping my DPS set over to Seducer..Now you might say "But you're giving up DPS?" Only i'm not...
Because They bloody added a second CP node that lets you increase damage by another 25%...They also reduced by Hardy and Elemental by 10% as well...So my damage is going to go up..My Sustain is going to be virtually the same as well....and now DK's/Templars don't have Major Mending so they're automatically weaker as well...They'll also do less damage to me because They're getting getting Destroyed Stamina wise and will run out quicker.
Man, you missed something.
If the sorc is OOM, he can hit the R button, use some light attacks and get back some magicka to re spam their shields.
Did I mentioned that they can increase that light attacks too through gear and CPs?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »About the Sorcerer :
It's funny to see how much people complain about sorc not getting nerf in the class skill, in factn they are enough nerf, LOG ON ON PTS to try it.
Why sorc are not nerfed in class skills :
Mobility :
Streak costing 21% ( 16% less from cp - 5% less from light armor) more : now just think that skill have a 50% cost increase each time you cast it within 4s => Mobility take serious nerf.
Shields :
It cost about 11k (= 30% of max pool) magicka after sorc sustain passive to use the 3 shields, and when you are it 3 times, harness give you magicka back so it's become a 7.7k cost for stacking all your shield.
Now think theze shields only last 6s and you need to recast it forever. Before harness magicka gave you nearly enough magicka to cast a hardened + a harness. Now, it's far from that.
Damage :
Sorc is already running a damage set and a sustain set. With the spamable defense sorc have, they are very affected by recovery and magicka cost increase, sorcs will reduce their damage or they will not be able to sustain streak and no free shieldstack.
Sustain :
Sorc only have dark deal for sustain, but casting a more expensive stamina skill, when you have a dodge roll and break free cps seperate make this skill extremely hard to use, sorc will run OOS faster and a no stamina sorc is a dead sorc.
Conclusion :
Even if sorc didn't receive direct class nerfs, they are affected a lot, and more than other, because sorc is made for spaming shield and streak and they are now punished for do it.
Before speaking, go to the PTS and try it
Atleast sorcs can still run a damage set. As well as an overpowered damage reduction set that was hardly changed. Also the heals for stamina classes were just increased by 30% along with the cost reduction nerfs making vigor and one dodge roll with a block take up an entire stamina pool. A second dodge roll and we are completely unable to CC break. Let alone this is where our sprint and damage come from as well we will basically be on CC away from death every time.
Also, I don't see the section where sorcs shields got increased? Therefore you still have your main defence at roughly the same cost (minus champion changes) while stamina survivability, which was already lackluster, was made even harder. Espeically for classes like stam dk that relied on things such as major mending, or even night blade that relied on things like dodge roll and sneak.
Same cost? You crazy? Sorcs lost 16% cost reduction on shields from CP and another 5% from Light Armor passives. Shields on PTS cost over 3.5k for Hardened Ward, 4.5k for Harness and 4.5k for Healing Ward. Harness used to refund basically the whole cost of casting Hardened and Harness. With 42k magicka (and the magicka return scales with your max magicka) I have a return of 1.2k per magic damage 3 times. That's 3.6k "effective cost reduction". Your 3 shields will cost a little less than 1/3 of your magicka pool to cast. That's the most expensive defense out of any class considering they have to be actively reapplied every 6 seconds. With 2k recovery, you get 6k magicka back in 6 seconds. The return from Harness gives another 3.6k. We have 9.6k magicka restored over 6 seconds, which is still less than what the shields cost (12k with the cost reduction passives in Light Armor and Sorc passives). And that's in a situation where your shields last their full duration (aka you aren't taking any damage). Sorcs are suffering from these cost reduction changes a lot, arguably more than the other classes.
Umm....Shields don't cost that on PTS either
Hardened Ward with 5/1/1 and ZERO cost reduction on any of my gear is 2879 Cost, Harnessed is 3764 Cost. (Healing Ward is the same)
So either you didn't spec your guy or you're giving the wrong numbers on purpose.
That's the base value of shields with max CP and no cost reduction passives. You have Light Armor cost reduction passives and most likely the Sorc cost reduction passive, which gives you in total 15% cost reduction. That alone brings the base cost close to the values you described. Also you're a Breton.
The base cost of shields are: 3510 Hardened, 4590 Harness, 4590 Healing.
Lets take Hardened: 3510 x 0.85 = 2983.5 that's with just the Sorc passive and the Light Armor passive. Lets check Breton: 3510 x 0.82 = 2878.2
So you're a Breton and you have all the Cost Reduction passives. No wonder you're not getting the same numbers as me. I was talking about the base cost of shields being high.
Stop this bullsh** racial passives don't work on the pts right now. You just want to state that sorcs are crap so that ZoS doesn't nerf them even though they are already the strongest class for both Stam and mag dps and for pvp.
Sorcs deserve to be crap for one patch so that anyone who mains a sorc realises who good they were and stop this stupid defence for sorcs that they are not viable
Aha then how do you explain the 3% difference in cost of shields? Unless shields magically received a 3% cost reduction, there's absolutely nothing that explains this 3% difference aside from race.
I never stated Sorcs were crap, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said they weren't viable. I was saying that they are getting severely hit by the patch too, just like all the other classes, and just because there aren't any changes to Dark Exchange, or the Sorc passives, doesn't mean they aren't going to take as much of a sustain hit as other classes. If you think even a little bit you'll see that magicka Sorcs were sustaining solely through recovery and cost reduction. Stamina Sorcs were sustaining through cost reduction, Constitution (which got a 45% nerf), heavy attacks and Dark Deal, I agree that Dark Deal is OP, and a simple cost increase to 4590 would fix the problem straight away, but I doubt that without cost reduction and consistution you're going to have the same infinite sustain as you can achieve on live. In fact, I'm pretty sure it just won't be possible to rely solely on Dark Deal to sustain, because you just won't be able to Dark Deal as much as now, and all skills are gonna cost at least 16% more. Not to mention the Redguard passive change.
Remember DB? Yeah, Sorcs were beyond crap that patch without any good sets to actually support them. What has changed since then? Destro buffs and new sets. Nothing in the Sorc class has changed since the patch where they were just plain bad in both PvE (Overload no longer viable) and PvP (just bad). The only things that have changed are non-class related things, that helped Sorcs as much as other classes. So who's really to blame here? The class or the sets or the external skill lines? Just like the class itself hasn't changed since DB, but other external things brought it to the high levels where it is now, now nothing changed either and all the external things that are happening are going to drag the sorc down.
3% extra cost is your complaint?
Go an try your NBIzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time
He's proccing frags, so he's a threat. Turn around and you are deadSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique3 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
He can also throw a curse on you.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »About the Sorcerer :
It's funny to see how much people complain about sorc not getting nerf in the class skill, in factn they are enough nerf, LOG ON ON PTS to try it.
Why sorc are not nerfed in class skills :
Mobility :
Streak costing 21% ( 16% less from cp - 5% less from light armor) more : now just think that skill have a 50% cost increase each time you cast it within 4s => Mobility take serious nerf.
Shields :
It cost about 11k (= 30% of max pool) magicka after sorc sustain passive to use the 3 shields, and when you are it 3 times, harness give you magicka back so it's become a 7.7k cost for stacking all your shield.
Now think theze shields only last 6s and you need to recast it forever. Before harness magicka gave you nearly enough magicka to cast a hardened + a harness. Now, it's far from that.
Damage :
Sorc is already running a damage set and a sustain set. With the spamable defense sorc have, they are very affected by recovery and magicka cost increase, sorcs will reduce their damage or they will not be able to sustain streak and no free shieldstack.
Sustain :
Sorc only have dark deal for sustain, but casting a more expensive stamina skill, when you have a dodge roll and break free cps seperate make this skill extremely hard to use, sorc will run OOS faster and a no stamina sorc is a dead sorc.
Conclusion :
Even if sorc didn't receive direct class nerfs, they are affected a lot, and more than other, because sorc is made for spaming shield and streak and they are now punished for do it.
Before speaking, go to the PTS and try it
Atleast sorcs can still run a damage set. As well as an overpowered damage reduction set that was hardly changed. Also the heals for stamina classes were just increased by 30% along with the cost reduction nerfs making vigor and one dodge roll with a block take up an entire stamina pool. A second dodge roll and we are completely unable to CC break. Let alone this is where our sprint and damage come from as well we will basically be on CC away from death every time.
Also, I don't see the section where sorcs shields got increased? Therefore you still have your main defence at roughly the same cost (minus champion changes) while stamina survivability, which was already lackluster, was made even harder. Espeically for classes like stam dk that relied on things such as major mending, or even night blade that relied on things like dodge roll and sneak.
Same cost? You crazy? Sorcs lost 16% cost reduction on shields from CP and another 5% from Light Armor passives. Shields on PTS cost over 3.5k for Hardened Ward, 4.5k for Harness and 4.5k for Healing Ward. Harness used to refund basically the whole cost of casting Hardened and Harness. With 42k magicka (and the magicka return scales with your max magicka) I have a return of 1.2k per magic damage 3 times. That's 3.6k "effective cost reduction". Your 3 shields will cost a little less than 1/3 of your magicka pool to cast. That's the most expensive defense out of any class considering they have to be actively reapplied every 6 seconds. With 2k recovery, you get 6k magicka back in 6 seconds. The return from Harness gives another 3.6k. We have 9.6k magicka restored over 6 seconds, which is still less than what the shields cost (12k with the cost reduction passives in Light Armor and Sorc passives). And that's in a situation where your shields last their full duration (aka you aren't taking any damage). Sorcs are suffering from these cost reduction changes a lot, arguably more than the other classes.
Umm....Shields don't cost that on PTS either
Hardened Ward with 5/1/1 and ZERO cost reduction on any of my gear is 2879 Cost, Harnessed is 3764 Cost. (Healing Ward is the same)
So either you didn't spec your guy or you're giving the wrong numbers on purpose.
That's the base value of shields with max CP and no cost reduction passives. You have Light Armor cost reduction passives and most likely the Sorc cost reduction passive, which gives you in total 15% cost reduction. That alone brings the base cost close to the values you described. Also you're a Breton.
The base cost of shields are: 3510 Hardened, 4590 Harness, 4590 Healing.
Lets take Hardened: 3510 x 0.85 = 2983.5 that's with just the Sorc passive and the Light Armor passive. Lets check Breton: 3510 x 0.82 = 2878.2
So you're a Breton and you have all the Cost Reduction passives. No wonder you're not getting the same numbers as me. I was talking about the base cost of shields being high.
Stop this bullsh** racial passives don't work on the pts right now. You just want to state that sorcs are crap so that ZoS doesn't nerf them even though they are already the strongest class for both Stam and mag dps and for pvp.
Sorcs deserve to be crap for one patch so that anyone who mains a sorc realises who good they were and stop this stupid defence for sorcs that they are not viable
Aha then how do you explain the 3% difference in cost of shields? Unless shields magically received a 3% cost reduction, there's absolutely nothing that explains this 3% difference aside from race.
I never stated Sorcs were crap, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said they weren't viable. I was saying that they are getting severely hit by the patch too, just like all the other classes, and just because there aren't any changes to Dark Exchange, or the Sorc passives, doesn't mean they aren't going to take as much of a sustain hit as other classes. If you think even a little bit you'll see that magicka Sorcs were sustaining solely through recovery and cost reduction. Stamina Sorcs were sustaining through cost reduction, Constitution (which got a 45% nerf), heavy attacks and Dark Deal, I agree that Dark Deal is OP, and a simple cost increase to 4590 would fix the problem straight away, but I doubt that without cost reduction and consistution you're going to have the same infinite sustain as you can achieve on live. In fact, I'm pretty sure it just won't be possible to rely solely on Dark Deal to sustain, because you just won't be able to Dark Deal as much as now, and all skills are gonna cost at least 16% more. Not to mention the Redguard passive change.
Remember DB? Yeah, Sorcs were beyond crap that patch without any good sets to actually support them. What has changed since then? Destro buffs and new sets. Nothing in the Sorc class has changed since the patch where they were just plain bad in both PvE (Overload no longer viable) and PvP (just bad). The only things that have changed are non-class related things, that helped Sorcs as much as other classes. So who's really to blame here? The class or the sets or the external skill lines? Just like the class itself hasn't changed since DB, but other external things brought it to the high levels where it is now, now nothing changed either and all the external things that are happening are going to drag the sorc down.
3% extra cost is your complaint?
Go an try your NBIzakiBrotherSs wrote: »
Any good player knows that if a sorc plays defensively and stack 3 shields better leave him alone.IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »What they need to do to Shields:
-Remove Bastion CP
-Remove Pirate Skeleton
-Increase cost for consecutive shield casts
-Remove the ability to stack Harness + other shields
-Reduce the magika received from Harness
-Add debuffs that reduce the effectiveness of shields
Honestly, the fact that shields can't be critted causes so much problems though. It just allows Sorcs to go full offense while every other class has to spec for impen. That just makes the damage Sorcs can do that much more ridiculous.
Sorcs wear impen too. At least all the good ones.
If you remove all of the above why don't you remove shields all together? They will be a worthless form of defense. So then Sorcs might actually receive some nice survivability mechanics aside from shields. Then all of you guys are going to keep whining because you'll find another reason to do it. Any good player knows damn well that shields on Sorcs aren't a problem to rip through. Like literally, EVERY good or decent player knows that. Because it is easy and it is logical. So that does tell me something about your level of playing
Yeah, is that Sorc doing any damage? No. When they are under pressure they don't have that many options aside from shield stacking. And if you do more damage in a GCD than a shield can take, you'll kill the Sorc no problems. But yeah, might as well not waste your time
He's proccing frags, so he's a threat. Turn around and you are dead0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Danse_Mayhem wrote: »AWESOME patch update Gina!
I reckon these big changes will be amazing for Pvp especially and cause teams to have to play the mechanics of PVE instead of just burning past everything with insane Deeps!
One thing I want... And I doubt ANYONE will disagree with me here... Please pretty PLEASE give us a useful alternative morph to Soul tether on the nightblade! Soul Siphon is the other morph that's so useless that barely anyone even knows what it does lol.
Extend the duration of the heal to 8 seconds instead of 4? Change the heal to a group stealth + major expedition for small scale movements? Maybe an AOE debuff like minor / major maim or defile??
In addition to this, prolonged suffering is the only morph worth using of Agony... Malefic wrath is not only awful, but barely different enough from agony to even call it a morph lol.
Do you think these things will eventually be looked at?
Cheeeers!
Soul syphon useless? It's the best burst heal in the game and the reason why there are mageblade healersSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
Durham✭✭✭✭✭
✭This thread is for Stam DK PVP
This was entirely over nerfed ! It was stacked with nerfs
-Most stam DK's lost 50 to 65% Stam Return on helping hands
-Stam abilities for us were increase 15 to 20% when you take in account the champ point changes (All Classes)
-Most stam DK lost about 30% Stam Return on Battle Roar
-Stam DK lost 25% healing (Major Mending all but gone !!! In duels its up for 1 sec most of the time it cost 4k to cast)
-Vigor cost 45 % more when you add in the champ point changes ( 30% Vigor cost increase +10 to 15% cost reduction gone champ) (all classes)
-Armor nerf 42% less magicka and stam return (All classes) On the test server this is very noticeable with magicka on stam we really have to watch this stat... I had to take off fossilize
- Blocking (All classes) in PVP this is a huge hit .... you will be taking more then 1 hit a sec .... this was 50% increase in blocking cost... especially if your getting hit with jabs or rapid strikes .....
About half of this applies to all stam classes however the stam dragon knight were hit in all three of its class defining passives....
All these nerf amplifies the Dragon Knight nerfs to a point that he is no longer able to perform his task on the battlefield. Keep in mind a DK has no way to get out of a fight there is no get away... He stands his ground ... This type of play will be gone after this patch..
After the testing from what I have seen this patch is causing less variations in the classes .. which is a huge selling point to this game....
Edited by Durham on April 20, 2017 8:23PMPVP DEADWAIT
PVP The Unguildables4 -
Kemenril✭✭✭PLEASE take a closer look at magblade. If magsorcs aren't being nerfed in any way other than the light armor/ cp changes then there is still very little reason to bring a magblade dps into endgame vet trials. Saptank is pretty much dead. This siphoning change needs to be revisited, please.
My response, in a nutshell. ^^^
I feel the siphoning changes really negatively impact NB's ability to tank at all. Furthermore, it's not like it was a change everyone was clamoring for.
I don't feel the reaction you're seeing here to Siphoning changes is overdramatic. There's are lots of good threads and conversations out there about how to redress these changes, including one here. I hope you consider them.
1 -
The_Undefined✭✭✭✭So, no staff comments? Really? Back in January when people threw hissy fits over sorc, the staff seemed pretty active on these forums. Now we just have staff blocking insulting comments?
Devs, can you not see you're taking this game in a really bad direction? There are maybe a couple positive posts here and they're in a sea of angry players. These changes should not be transferred to live. You're literally killing classes in an attempt to do what? Resource manage? Is there not a better way to resource manage than nerf classes? How is it I can recount every MMO up to this one and never have experienced seriously game breaking patches?
My suggestion, you all need to slow down on these massive nerfs. Do not put these nerfs in live. Look for other ways to change the game (item sets, bosses, monsters in general) instead of directly morphing the first thing your players encounter.
Also, this is a PTS server, there needs to be more of a dialogue here. You want us to resource manage? Stop taking away our resource managing abilities.
As a casual player that just got into the game last summer, I still don't have any CP dungeon gear b/c I feel too weak to go into vet dungeons. I also don't have any maelstrom weapons, b/c my builds keep getting nerfed and I don't feel entirely equipped to make good decisions on how to update them. I get these are personal problems to my game, but these are personal problems tied strictly to feel really weak in a game full of vets that can solo content that 2 shots me. It's getting worse for me, I don't think it's getting that worse for BiS characters. So in general, I'm part of the floor that's supposed to be raised and I'm really sucking overall in this game since homestead launched.Edited by The_Undefined on April 21, 2017 12:29AM7 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »About the Sorcerer :
It's funny to see how much people complain about sorc not getting nerf in the class skill, in factn they are enough nerf, LOG ON ON PTS to try it.
Why sorc are not nerfed in class skills :
Mobility :
Streak costing 21% ( 16% less from cp - 5% less from light armor) more : now just think that skill have a 50% cost increase each time you cast it within 4s => Mobility take serious nerf.
Shields :
It cost about 11k (= 30% of max pool) magicka after sorc sustain passive to use the 3 shields, and when you are it 3 times, harness give you magicka back so it's become a 7.7k cost for stacking all your shield.
Now think theze shields only last 6s and you need to recast it forever. Before harness magicka gave you nearly enough magicka to cast a hardened + a harness. Now, it's far from that.
Damage :
Sorc is already running a damage set and a sustain set. With the spamable defense sorc have, they are very affected by recovery and magicka cost increase, sorcs will reduce their damage or they will not be able to sustain streak and no free shieldstack.
Sustain :
Sorc only have dark deal for sustain, but casting a more expensive stamina skill, when you have a dodge roll and break free cps seperate make this skill extremely hard to use, sorc will run OOS faster and a no stamina sorc is a dead sorc.
Conclusion :
Even if sorc didn't receive direct class nerfs, they are affected a lot, and more than other, because sorc is made for spaming shield and streak and they are now punished for do it.
Before speaking, go to the PTS and try it
Atleast sorcs can still run a damage set. As well as an overpowered damage reduction set that was hardly changed. Also the heals for stamina classes were just increased by 30% along with the cost reduction nerfs making vigor and one dodge roll with a block take up an entire stamina pool. A second dodge roll and we are completely unable to CC break. Let alone this is where our sprint and damage come from as well we will basically be on CC away from death every time.
Also, I don't see the section where sorcs shields got increased? Therefore you still have your main defence at roughly the same cost (minus champion changes) while stamina survivability, which was already lackluster, was made even harder. Espeically for classes like stam dk that relied on things such as major mending, or even night blade that relied on things like dodge roll and sneak.
Same cost? You crazy? Sorcs lost 16% cost reduction on shields from CP and another 5% from Light Armor passives. Shields on PTS cost over 3.5k for Hardened Ward, 4.5k for Harness and 4.5k for Healing Ward. Harness used to refund basically the whole cost of casting Hardened and Harness. With 42k magicka (and the magicka return scales with your max magicka) I have a return of 1.2k per magic damage 3 times. That's 3.6k "effective cost reduction". Your 3 shields will cost a little less than 1/3 of your magicka pool to cast. That's the most expensive defense out of any class considering they have to be actively reapplied every 6 seconds. With 2k recovery, you get 6k magicka back in 6 seconds. The return from Harness gives another 3.6k. We have 9.6k magicka restored over 6 seconds, which is still less than what the shields cost (12k with the cost reduction passives in Light Armor and Sorc passives). And that's in a situation where your shields last their full duration (aka you aren't taking any damage). Sorcs are suffering from these cost reduction changes a lot, arguably more than the other classes.
Umm....Shields don't cost that on PTS either
Hardened Ward with 5/1/1 and ZERO cost reduction on any of my gear is 2879 Cost, Harnessed is 3764 Cost. (Healing Ward is the same)
So either you didn't spec your guy or you're giving the wrong numbers on purpose.
That's the base value of shields with max CP and no cost reduction passives. You have Light Armor cost reduction passives and most likely the Sorc cost reduction passive, which gives you in total 15% cost reduction. That alone brings the base cost close to the values you described. Also you're a Breton.
The base cost of shields are: 3510 Hardened, 4590 Harness, 4590 Healing.
Lets take Hardened: 3510 x 0.85 = 2983.5 that's with just the Sorc passive and the Light Armor passive. Lets check Breton: 3510 x 0.82 = 2878.2
So you're a Breton and you have all the Cost Reduction passives. No wonder you're not getting the same numbers as me. I was talking about the base cost of shields being high.
Wait...Why would you make a post about what a Naked Sorc with no Passives has for Shield Cost?https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos0 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »D0ntevenL1ft wrote: »About the Sorcerer :
It's funny to see how much people complain about sorc not getting nerf in the class skill, in factn they are enough nerf, LOG ON ON PTS to try it.
Why sorc are not nerfed in class skills :
Mobility :
Streak costing 21% ( 16% less from cp - 5% less from light armor) more : now just think that skill have a 50% cost increase each time you cast it within 4s => Mobility take serious nerf.
Shields :
It cost about 11k (= 30% of max pool) magicka after sorc sustain passive to use the 3 shields, and when you are it 3 times, harness give you magicka back so it's become a 7.7k cost for stacking all your shield.
Now think theze shields only last 6s and you need to recast it forever. Before harness magicka gave you nearly enough magicka to cast a hardened + a harness. Now, it's far from that.
Damage :
Sorc is already running a damage set and a sustain set. With the spamable defense sorc have, they are very affected by recovery and magicka cost increase, sorcs will reduce their damage or they will not be able to sustain streak and no free shieldstack.
Sustain :
Sorc only have dark deal for sustain, but casting a more expensive stamina skill, when you have a dodge roll and break free cps seperate make this skill extremely hard to use, sorc will run OOS faster and a no stamina sorc is a dead sorc.
Conclusion :
Even if sorc didn't receive direct class nerfs, they are affected a lot, and more than other, because sorc is made for spaming shield and streak and they are now punished for do it.
Before speaking, go to the PTS and try it
Atleast sorcs can still run a damage set. As well as an overpowered damage reduction set that was hardly changed. Also the heals for stamina classes were just increased by 30% along with the cost reduction nerfs making vigor and one dodge roll with a block take up an entire stamina pool. A second dodge roll and we are completely unable to CC break. Let alone this is where our sprint and damage come from as well we will basically be on CC away from death every time.
Also, I don't see the section where sorcs shields got increased? Therefore you still have your main defence at roughly the same cost (minus champion changes) while stamina survivability, which was already lackluster, was made even harder. Espeically for classes like stam dk that relied on things such as major mending, or even night blade that relied on things like dodge roll and sneak.
Same cost? You crazy? Sorcs lost 16% cost reduction on shields from CP and another 5% from Light Armor passives. Shields on PTS cost over 3.5k for Hardened Ward, 4.5k for Harness and 4.5k for Healing Ward. Harness used to refund basically the whole cost of casting Hardened and Harness. With 42k magicka (and the magicka return scales with your max magicka) I have a return of 1.2k per magic damage 3 times. That's 3.6k "effective cost reduction". Your 3 shields will cost a little less than 1/3 of your magicka pool to cast. That's the most expensive defense out of any class considering they have to be actively reapplied every 6 seconds. With 2k recovery, you get 6k magicka back in 6 seconds. The return from Harness gives another 3.6k. We have 9.6k magicka restored over 6 seconds, which is still less than what the shields cost (12k with the cost reduction passives in Light Armor and Sorc passives). And that's in a situation where your shields last their full duration (aka you aren't taking any damage). Sorcs are suffering from these cost reduction changes a lot, arguably more than the other classes.
Umm....Shields don't cost that on PTS either
Hardened Ward with 5/1/1 and ZERO cost reduction on any of my gear is 2879 Cost, Harnessed is 3764 Cost. (Healing Ward is the same)
So either you didn't spec your guy or you're giving the wrong numbers on purpose.
That's the base value of shields with max CP and no cost reduction passives. You have Light Armor cost reduction passives and most likely the Sorc cost reduction passive, which gives you in total 15% cost reduction. That alone brings the base cost close to the values you described. Also you're a Breton.
The base cost of shields are: 3510 Hardened, 4590 Harness, 4590 Healing.
Lets take Hardened: 3510 x 0.85 = 2983.5 that's with just the Sorc passive and the Light Armor passive. Lets check Breton: 3510 x 0.82 = 2878.2
So you're a Breton and you have all the Cost Reduction passives. No wonder you're not getting the same numbers as me. I was talking about the base cost of shields being high.
Wait...Why would you make a post about what a Naked Sorc with no Passives has for Shield Cost?
Because he tries to defend sorcs. He lists arguments which should show that sorcs got nerfed but they are not. All other classes are being nerfed into the ground, each ability that had some kind of resource management got nerfed except for dark deal and crit surge. Bastion wasn't reduced to 15% like heals and hardy or elemental defender.
Sorc is the best class for anything in this game offensive wise and they are very tanky at the same time.3 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭These changes are simply outrageous, and you will lose a lot of paying customers if you do not listen to this thread. Is it here for show, or will you actually listen and act accordingly?
#1: Make the Warden good. That's cool. Do NOT make the Warden a Pay-to-Win class. Do NOT nerf other classes to transfer our unique and useful functions (ie. Major Mending) to the Warden. The Warden can SHARE these buffs, fine, copy them, but do NOT steal them and leave others with nothing. This is a grave insult to the community, forcing us to abandon our old characters and create Pay-to-Win Wardens to regain abilities that you've taken from us. I'm excited to make a Warden, but I don't want it to be my only viable character after you take a wrecking ball to everything else (well, everything except sorcs, of course).
#2: Do NOT degrade Templars by destroying our unique group utility role of restoring group resources by nerfing Repentance and inflicting this uniquely insulting shared cooldown with Spear Shards/Necrotic Orbs. Repentance must be left alone! Want to make Orbs give a similar synergy? Fine, but NO SHARED COOLDOWN! There is literally no reason for Templars to exist in this game anymore if you do this.
#3: Sorcs are already severely OP, far outperforming every other class in DPS. In the last patch, sorcs whined so hard about a potential nerf that ZOS actually backpedaled and BUFFED that ability. WHAT?! Now in this patch, Master Class sorcs are STILL untouched while the already-under-performing classes are getting nerfed even harder. Either nerf sorcs to bring them in line with the rest, or buff everyone else. (For instance, make ALL Dawn's Wrath abilities deal fire damage like they ALWAYS should have.)
#4: Rushed ceremony / Breath of Life. If you're going to nerf this ability into oblivion, then compensate what we're losing with a benefit. For instance, grant the caster a damage shield for the excess amount when the ability overheals. Or remove the one/two target limit. Or add a modest HoT. Something! Don't take away even more of what once made Templars unique without compensating somehow.
This game is not balanced, and it's insult to pretend like it is. These "balance" changes have the effect of imbalaning the game even more. It's an insult to our intelligence to even call them "balance" changes. I can only speak about Templars, but many others here have already explained the imbalance and problems you're creating for DK's and NB's. Fix this, or there will only be two broken classes remaining when Morrowind drops.Edited by Gnortranermara on April 21, 2017 2:19AM4 -
unwoman✭✭I wish the pvp community would shut up about nerfing classes until they seperate pvp & pve updates. Look where it's gotten us. ZOS obviously takes nerfs way too far everytime.2 -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭Magsorc: with enough CP and armor I've already farmed, the sustain nerf wasn't even noticeable in PvE or dummy testing. The CP changes make healing ward very attractive, so destro/resto setup and she's still fun to play. Guess who's going to Morrowind?
Magplar: dedicated healer, not excited about the changes, she's going to take a little vacation. Warden heals will be trying out all their shiny toys anyway, this is fine. Felt the sustain change a lot harder too, would have to gear her for better sustain and even less damage... nah. Too much effort for not enough fun.
Magblade: still a mess, might switch to lightning staff for heavy attacks that can't miss/be dodged, those heavies are no longer optional. Experimentation with build and gear needed, and magblade is always fun to play in PvE, so I may just do that. Gets the same bastion/healing ward benefit as the magsorc, although less juiced up, staff expert it is.
MagDK: don't have one of my own, feel bad for them about the nerf to battle roar.
Battle roar used to be superkewl.
MagWarden: don't care.
I don't have enough information or experience to comment on stamina versions. Good luck to them.
Waiting to get into Cyrodiil and see how it plays.
Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.0
