Leeching Strikes is terrible now

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Well so far this patch might actually make me quit my setup has been destroyed, stam DK sustain is getting completely gutted and my race (redguard) is receiving its 4th nerf now.

Still no sDK improvements, no additional stam morphs I'm still forced to wear proc sets to deal damage and use *** weapon skills.

What are you waiting for man? The Warden sounds like your dream class. Why don't you quit your DK, and make that ranger class you've always wanted?

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Is the 1500 the heal after battle spirit or it's that the value for pve?

That's for PvE. I've already tested it in dueling, and it is cut in half by battle spirit, it is reduced by Defile, and it does not crit. It's incredibly underwhelming.

Ew..

Yea this nerf sucks...

Mageblades had sustain over other classes. We could force battles of attrition...or at least we used to be able to before CP inflation. Now ZOS finally nerfs sustain, and we're left without even that.

Edziu · April 2017

ehh, now on pts we have the worst dps in game as just nightblade and only thing what we have is sustain to figh much much longer without support than other classes

not enough that then just doesnt changed anything to imrpove our dps to be more viable in pve then just nerfed to *** our sustain and now we have still the worstt dps in game and additional without sustain without help by support

HuawaSepp · April 2017

Sustain is bad
dps is bad
weaving heavy attacks is bad because only 3 useful dots
support is bad

The whole class is useless and has no pets,
change it to necromancer.

It's even unpolite to offer new players to choose NB as class.

F7sus4 · April 2017

Edziu wrote: »

ehh, now on pts we have the worst dps in game as just nightblade and only thing what we have is sustain to figh much much longer without support than other classes

Jaszcza, we've tested it. In the end - 75 second magNB sustain is as bad as 55 second magDK sustain. I mean, yes - it's better - but still not even close to what's needed.

Jeckll · April 2017

Not worth slotting anymore.
Now after relentless focus being next to worthless with good combat prayer uptimes, the last class based buff is broken.

I think everything about this change was mentioned already. Maybe the next patches will Brighten the whole picture as it seems pretty dark atm in an environment that Wasnt shiny for trial Stamblades to begin with.

Edziu · April 2017

F7sus4 wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

ehh, now on pts we have the worst dps in game as just nightblade and only thing what we have is sustain to figh much much longer without support than other classes

Jaszcza, we've tested it. In the end - 75 second magNB sustain is as bad as 55 second magDK sustain. I mean, yes - it's better - but still not even close to what's needed.

yeah + other problem...nb in those 75 second will do maybe just 75% dps of 100% dk dps in 55 seconds.....in other way to translate this because I dont kno how explain it in other way xD

nb in 75 seonds fight will do for example 750k total dmage while dk will do 1m damage in 55 seconds, just comparing max damage, dps, sustain is in other way which is letting you to fight longer but its not matter if other than your class is doing more damage in shorter thime than your class in longer time

makreth · April 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Sustain is bad
dps is bad
weaving heavy attacks is bad because only 3 useful dots
support is bad

The whole class is useless and has no pets,
change it to necromancer.

It's even unpolite to offer new players to choose NB as class.

You're very wrong there....NB both stamina and magicka nb is one of the best classes in the game if not the top.

For Thieve's guild and Dark brotherhood dlc ofc.... haha

Witar · April 2017

Just face it, zos hates everyone besides sorcs and their new warden pet. Roll sorc, feels godly after magblade.

aeowulf · April 2017

it needs to proc off direct damage, not just light attacks.

Compared to the helping hands PASSIVE, it's not permanently on, it costs resources, costs a skill slot, is half as effective, requires you to damage a mob (ever swung your sword and missed?) and does not require you to drop block. However it does give a heal which quite frankly is a bit useless as we already have plenty of self heals.

PS4_ZeColmeia · April 2017

This is actually awesome. Think of light/medium armor passives. This effectively makes the cost reduction from the passives + recovery % more of a requirement. HA can only recover resources and gets none of these, also they only get recovery if getting attacked. So what does this do?

PVP
Ignore the HA target and they will shortly do no damage unless they spec'ed for resource recovery which then means their damage low which then means you can continue to ignore them.

PvE
HA is now not the best choice for classes, because unless you are a tank, you won't get hit enough to have sustain. This means you likely will have to spec in for health. You will likely need to consider mitigation. Content now has more skill to it. Stamina and Magicka are more in balance because max damage has been reduced.

Overall
Necrotic Orb now lets anyone in the group perform templar resource management, this is now a required skill. Group buff sets are more worthwhile even in small groups. Hybrids are now effective because damage now lower by necessity (unless in a very well set, skill, cp coordinated group, and therefore can have a lower damage because using 2 resource pools is as effective as building for better recovery, or reduce costs or steal combinations. Everyone is going to have to have some resource management now.

This helps balance a lot of things by removing the temptation to only going after max damage without rolling with a group that has skills for resource recovery, and also increasing the usefulness of armor sets that do recovery bonuses or have 5 trait bonuses that restore resource pools

Finally think about weapon/armor traits. Right now impen is as good at divines/infused combos in PvP but no other traits. Now having other traits can be more effective since you will likely be causing damage over longer time as the damage meta wains. So now decisive has value because the fights are longer. Armor increase has value because sustain matters and therefore health sustain matters.

Same thing with charged on weapons, the fight is extended so statuses matter more as a way of causing damage. Infused is more valuable is your sustain method is to proc resource enchants. Defending is now a good trait, its not just sharpened and precise.

Making resource management matter is painful, but will solve a lot of problems we are currently facing in the overall game vs it just being a race towards the "who can do the highest damage" meta.

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

PS4_ZeColmeia wrote: »

This is actually awesome. Think of light/medium armor passives. This effectively makes the cost reduction from the passives + recovery % more of a requirement. HA can only recover resources and gets none of these, also they only get recovery if getting attacked. So what does this do?

PVP
Ignore the HA target and they will shortly do no damage unless they spec'ed for resource recovery which then means their damage low which then means you can continue to ignore them.

PvE
HA is now not the best choice for classes, because unless you are a tank, you won't get hit enough to have sustain. This means you likely will have to spec in for health. You will likely need to consider mitigation. Content now has more skill to it. Stamina and Magicka are more in balance because max damage has been reduced.

Overall
Necrotic Orb now lets anyone in the group perform templar resource management, this is now a required skill. Group buff sets are more worthwhile even in small groups. Hybrids are now effective because damage now lower by necessity (unless in a very well set, skill, cp coordinated group, and therefore can have a lower damage because using 2 resource pools is as effective as building for better recovery, or reduce costs or steal combinations. Everyone is going to have to have some resource management now.

This helps balance a lot of things by removing the temptation to only going after max damage without rolling with a group that has skills for resource recovery, and also increasing the usefulness of armor sets that do recovery bonuses or have 5 trait bonuses that restore resource pools

Finally think about weapon/armor traits. Right now impen is as good at divines/infused combos in PvP but no other traits. Now having other traits can be more effective since you will likely be causing damage over longer time as the damage meta wains. So now decisive has value because the fights are longer. Armor increase has value because sustain matters and therefore health sustain matters.

Same thing with charged on weapons, the fight is extended so statuses matter more as a way of causing damage. Infused is more valuable is your sustain method is to proc resource enchants. Defending is now a good trait, its not just sharpened and precise.

Making resource management matter is painful, but will solve a lot of problems we are currently facing in the overall game vs it just being a race towards the "who can do the highest damage" meta.

Bud, we're not talking about the entire patch; we're talking about Siphoning Strikes. I agree, overall this patch is great, but they've made this move useless. If they want it used they need to make is either free or increase the stamina gained. Or better yet, they could make Leeching cost magicka, and the other morph cost stamina (exchange magicka for stamina, and vice versa)

Izaki · April 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Is the 1500 the heal after battle spirit or it's that the value for pve?

That's for PvE. I've already tested it in dueling, and it is cut in half by battle spirit, it is reduced by Defile, and it does not crit. It's incredibly underwhelming.

Yeah basically a crappy version of Crit Surge which is also more restricted. Nice.

thankyourat · April 2017

If the devs plan to make us more survivable with this skill they are going to have to increase the heal of this ability because as of right now the loss of filling up your secondary resource pool is a survivability loss.

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

thankyourat wrote: »

If the devs plan to make us more survivable with this skill they are going to have to increase the heal of this ability because as of right now the loss of filling up your secondary resource pool is a survivability loss.

If they made it so it can proc off of damage (whether it be direct or DoTs), or if they double the heal; it wouldn't be too bad. The proc off of damage change would convince me to use the ability; not sure if I would use it even if they doubled the heal though tbh. I mean crit surge more than doubles the heal, and it goes off every time you crit; which means it would go off way more than Siphoning would.

LiquidPony · April 2017

This change is just plain ridiculous.

Delete your Nightblades and create sorcs. No reason at all to run NBs in PvE at this point (not that there was much of a point after Homestead)

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Out of 822 characters on the PC MoL leaderboards, there are 50 Nightblades. That's 6%. Isn't it clear that there's something wrong with this class?

Anti_Virus · April 2017

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Well so far this patch might actually make me quit my setup has been destroyed, stam DK sustain is getting completely gutted and my race (redguard) is receiving its 4th nerf now.

Still no sDK improvements, no additional stam morphs I'm still forced to wear proc sets to deal damage and use *** weapon skills.

What are you waiting for man? The Warden sounds like your dream class. Why don't you quit your DK, and make that ranger class you've always wanted?

Because I've invested a lot of time into the DK class, Im happy for the warden, but its shaping up to be disappointing at least the stam side, no additional effects for stam morphs. Makes me doubtful, the warden seems to play better as a magic druid than an actual ranger.

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Well so far this patch might actually make me quit my setup has been destroyed, stam DK sustain is getting completely gutted and my race (redguard) is receiving its 4th nerf now.

Still no sDK improvements, no additional stam morphs I'm still forced to wear proc sets to deal damage and use *** weapon skills.

What are you waiting for man? The Warden sounds like your dream class. Why don't you quit your DK, and make that ranger class you've always wanted?

Because I've invested a lot of time into the DK class, Im happy for the warden, but its shaping up to be disappointing at least the stam side, no additional effects for stam morphs. Makes me doubtful, the warden seems to play better as a magic druid than an actual ranger.

I find the stam morphs to be insulting to be honest. Hopefully they'll give those morphs something extra before it goes live.

olsborg · April 2017

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:

Cost: Free
Duration: 20 seconds
When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:

Cost: Free
Duration: 20 seconds
When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:

Cost: free
Duration: 20 seconds
When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Solid suggestions!

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

The only thing I would change is to swap minor mending for minor vitality. This would make this ability gold for tanks.

Izaki · April 2017

I think that the heal really needs to be increased and it should be able to crit. Look at Crit Surge. It can proc off anything as long as its a crit and the heal itself can crit. A 2k crittable heal should be pretty decent. This would be pretty balanced in regards to Crit Surge due to the fact that it also restores resources.

GreenSoup2HoT · April 2017

The cost should be free. Sounds logical based on the resource returns. I personally didn't use Siphoning Strikes as i was the roaming ganker type but what op has laid out shows how laughable the changes really are. I personally wont be using the ability after this change.

Princess_Ciri · April 2017

I love my Nightblades but clearly ZOS doesn't feel the same way. Hilarious how everyone was hoping Nightblades would rise next patch because they have a way to sustain and now.... well it's just sad.

NightbladeMechanics · April 2017

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

I like this! I would use Leeching on my mageblade.

LiquidPony · April 2017

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Shouldn't one of the morphs offer something useful for stam characters?

Xvorg · April 2017

HuawaSepp wrote: »

Sustain is bad
dps is bad
weaving heavy attacks is bad because only 3 useful dots
support is bad

The whole class is useless and has no pets,
change it to necromancer.

It's even unpolite to offer new players to choose NB as class.

I support the necromance... after 2 years trying to explain why it was a bad idea, i've realized that there are worse ideas within the development staff.

olsborg · April 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Shouldn't one of the morphs offer something useful for stam characters?

Well if minor mending and stamreturn isnt useful for stamina...the I dunno:D

LiquidPony · April 2017

olsborg wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Shouldn't one of the morphs offer something useful for stam characters?

Well if minor mending and stamreturn isnt useful for stamina...the I dunno:D

@olsborg how is minor mending useful for stam DPS?

Strider_Roshin · April 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

As shown in the eso-live, the warden utility skill that help you sustain is free to cast. In light of this, I have my own suggestion to how this skill(s) should work for the nb in a similar way.

Siphoning strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated your light and heavy attacks restore 1400 health to you.

Leeching strikes:
Cost: Free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor mending and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 stamina and 1400 health.

Siphoning attacks:
Cost: free

Duration: 20 seconds

When activated you gain minor intellect and your light and heavy attacks restore 400 magicka and 1400 health.

Something to that effect. Stamblades desperately need some better healing, giving them minor mending would help in this regard.

Shouldn't one of the morphs offer something useful for stam characters?

Well if minor mending and stamreturn isnt useful for stamina...the I dunno:D

@olsborg how is minor mending useful for stam DPS?

It isn't but it would be helpful in PvP. I think minor vitality would be better since it'll strengthen the heals from the healers in PvE; while at the same time being helpful in PvP. The minor vitality shouldn't be passively given though like Swallow Soul; it should be given upon activation for 20 seconds. This way it still remains after weapon swap.