Leeching Strikes is terrible now

Strider_Roshin

Wearing 6 medium, 1 heavy this ability costs 2020 stamina, and now restore 397 per light/heavy attack. That means that within 20 seconds you'll need to land 5 light/heavy attacks just to almost break even. Which means you'll need to land 6 just to make this ability beneficial. This isn't worth slotting in PvE or PvP. Increased surviveability with the 1500 health? You won't survive anything with no stamina. If this move isn't addressed (magicka morph is just as terrible), this will be the end of Siphoning Strikes, and its morphs.

Suggested Changes:
1. Reduce the healing (1000 instead of 1500), and make it free
2. Keep the healing and the cost, but make it restore 1000 stamina again. This way you'll break even with 2 light attacks, and you'll profit with 3+

In PvP it's difficult enough as it is to land 4 light attacks within 20 seconds. Expecting us to land 6+ isn't realistic.

ZOS, if you want this move to be used at all; it cannot stay the way it is. It's simply not worth the cost.

Izaki

OMG.

KingJ

Its terrible the one thing NB had and they ruined it.

Izaki

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

Subversus

They already nerfed strife, I still can't fathom how they justified nerfing sustain a 2nd patch in a row... Hopefully this will change until June.

t3hdubzy

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

Agree prefer they cost a different resource

Ragnaroek93

Wow now I understand the rage from all nightblades (german tooltip is completely misleading) xD

But considering they nerfed everything I understand the nerf. Should remove the cost of the skill tho.

ArgoCye

Thtat's the end of nightblade tanks

clocksstoppe

At least they fixed cloak..

t3hdubzy

clocksstoppe wrote: »

At least they fixed cloak..

And nerfed it indirectly

thankyourat

clocksstoppe wrote: »

At least they fixed cloak..

It won't be fixed. Every update they write the same thing and every update it's still broken

Strider_Roshin

thankyourat wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

At least they fixed cloak..

It won't be fixed. Every update they write the same thing and every update it's still broken

Pretty much. I wouldn't be surprised if they just copied and pasted this from the previous PTS patch notes.

KingJ

thankyourat wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

At least they fixed cloak..

It won't be fixed. Every update they write the same thing and every update it's still broken

Hey one day they might believe they fixed it.

Alp

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

same as Relentless Focus.

Relentless focus costs 2436 stamina to get 10% extra stamina recovery and 8% extra damage for 20 seconds.
The wardens Bull Netch gives stamina over 25 seconds, 20% extra weapon damage over 27 seconds and has no cost.

Once you are out of stamina you can't use skills to get it back because.. it costs more stamina to do so.. Magicka is useless to stamina nightblades, it's basically a whole bar just for cloaking and mark target.

Strider_Roshin

Alp wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

same as Relentless Focus.

Relentless focus costs 2436 stamina to get 10% extra stamina recovery and 8% extra damage for 20 seconds.
The wardens Bull Netch gives stamina over 25 seconds, 20% extra weapon damage over 27 seconds and has no cost.

Once you are out of stamina you can't use skills to get it back because.. it costs more stamina to do so.. Magicka is useless to stamina nightblades, it's basically a whole bar just for cloaking and mark target.

The warden's Betty costs nothing and restores stamina without any requirements such as landing light/heavy attacks. The warden also has +12% for all resources (similar to refreshing shadows), and finally healing with a green balance ability restores magicka or stamina; depending on which on is lower. Did I mention that the Warden ability Lotus Flower heals you each time you land a light or heavy attack; while at the same time granting you the major crit passive?

In reference to Relentless Focus; what really makes this ability shine is the +8% damage, and the Spectral Bow. It is not used for its resource management. Siphoning Strikes on the hand is used for resource management; and with the current changes it makes your resource management worse; which makes it a failure.

Alp

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Alp wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

same as Relentless Focus.

Relentless focus costs 2436 stamina to get 10% extra stamina recovery and 8% extra damage for 20 seconds.
The wardens Bull Netch gives stamina over 25 seconds, 20% extra weapon damage over 27 seconds and has no cost.

Once you are out of stamina you can't use skills to get it back because.. it costs more stamina to do so.. Magicka is useless to stamina nightblades, it's basically a whole bar just for cloaking and mark target.

The warden's Betty costs nothing and restores stamina without any requirements such as landing light/heavy attacks. The warden also has +12% for all resources (similar to refreshing shadows), and finally healing with a green balance ability restores magicka or stamina; depending on which on is lower. Did I mention that the Warden ability Lotus Flower heals you each time you land a light or heavy attack; while at the same time granting you the major crit passive?

In reference to Relentless Focus; what really makes this ability shine is the +8% damage, and the Spectral Bow. It is not used for its resource management. Siphoning Strikes on the hand is used for resource management; and with the current changes it makes your resource management worse; which makes it a failure.

Back when Relentless focus used magicka I would often use it just to get the extra bit of stamina though.

Strider_Roshin

Alp wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Alp wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Yeah a skill that restores stamina/magicka and costs stamina/magicka is like the stupidest thing ever. I thought they had realized it with the Warden when they made the Netch free. Apparently not.

same as Relentless Focus.

Relentless focus costs 2436 stamina to get 10% extra stamina recovery and 8% extra damage for 20 seconds.
The wardens Bull Netch gives stamina over 25 seconds, 20% extra weapon damage over 27 seconds and has no cost.

Once you are out of stamina you can't use skills to get it back because.. it costs more stamina to do so.. Magicka is useless to stamina nightblades, it's basically a whole bar just for cloaking and mark target.

The warden's Betty costs nothing and restores stamina without any requirements such as landing light/heavy attacks. The warden also has +12% for all resources (similar to refreshing shadows), and finally healing with a green balance ability restores magicka or stamina; depending on which on is lower. Did I mention that the Warden ability Lotus Flower heals you each time you land a light or heavy attack; while at the same time granting you the major crit passive?

In reference to Relentless Focus; what really makes this ability shine is the +8% damage, and the Spectral Bow. It is not used for its resource management. Siphoning Strikes on the hand is used for resource management; and with the current changes it makes your resource management worse; which makes it a failure.

Back when Relentless focus used magicka I would often use it just to get the extra bit of stamina though.

I used it for the 8% but to each their own. The extra 10% is a nice perk; I'm not trying to downplay it. I'm merely just drawing attention to the purpose of the move. For instance the purpose of Mass Hysteria is to CC your opponent(s); most importantly while blocking. I'm not using it for the purpose of Snaring them.

I use Siphoning Strikes for the purpose of improving my resource management, and in its current state it is failing to achieve that purpose.

Izaki

Yeah. It totally fails to achieve that purpose. I mean they really have to do something about this. 350 stamina per light or heavy attack is borderline ridiculous. Losing DPS for these amounts of resource regeneration and healing is just not worth it. Its not like 1500 health per light attack is a life saver or anything considering that it doesn't apply in AoE situations. 350 stamina?! Like really? At this point the skill has to be free to warrant its use, which still makes it arguably worse than the Netch, which also grants a strong buff and a cleanse for roughly the same level of regen. If the amount restored was 700 I'd take it. But as it is now, this skill isn't worth slotting in the slightest.

Also why did they take off the chance to restore resources on ability use? Its not like it was a game changer, it was just a nice addition to the ability.

Izaki

Better tag ZOS to let them know, no? They probably won't see it otherwise... This is one of the few constructive threads out there, it would be a shame for them to miss it.

Alp

All these changes are getting me worried about if I can ever use my main character properly for anything other than RP. I only just barely made it to stage 3 of veteran maelstrom arena as it is.

I guess it depends on if the difficulty of that will change as well to match the changes.

arkansas_ESO

Some extra threads about the Siphoning Attacks/Strikes change:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4009751/#Comment_4009751

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/335892/siphoning-attacks-strikes-discussion-thread

@ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Anti_Virus

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

Some_Guy

KingJ wrote: »

Its terrible the one thing NB had and they ruined it.

The one thing... my favorite thing about my sorcerer is going into a group of players and hitting the CC that sends them all running away. And my DK? When things get tough, I just use that ability that makes me invisible for a couple seconds, and just stealth away. And when I feel like playing my Templar, I like to do that thing where I send out a shade, run away as people chase me, reactive the ability to make me teleport back to where I left the shade, and watch as groups of people look like idiots while they look for me! I actually haven't used this ability, or either morph, in a very long time... so I guess I'll just continue not using it.

Honestly, I dislike 99 out of the 100 changes (obviously not the exact number) made in this patch (I just care less about this one than most of the others). I do like the symbol for the Warden though, so that's a thing...

F7sus4

I did a skeleton test with magNB "classical" rotation both including and excluding the use of Siphoning Attacks. With the whole nerf-hammer applied to current sustain, the build was able to maintain resources for ca. 55 seconds without SA and ca. 70 seconds with SA.

The initial cost of the ability is basically eating up to 30% of Magicka you'd get as a benefit from SA rendering it obsolete as a resource managing skill. It definitely feels like off-healing ability now.

When compared to Warden's Netch it's way underperforming. 1) SA cost renders the amount of resources returned negligible. 2) Netch does not have a cost at all. 3) Netch also provides damage buff (allowing you to use regular potions). 4) Netch even lasts longer.

Strider_Roshin

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Anti_Virus

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Well so far this patch might actually make me quit my setup has been destroyed, stam DK sustain is getting completely gutted and my race (redguard) is receiving its 4th nerf now.

Still no sDK improvements, no additional stam morphs I'm still forced to wear proc sets to deal damage and use *** weapon skills.

thankyourat

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Is the 1500 the heal after battle spirit or it's that the value for pve?

Xvorg

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/334054/argument-for-removing-the-20-damage-reduction-component-from-leeching-strikes

I told you guys... Leeching was was good, despite the spell and wpn dmg reduction...

At least it was free res on basic attacks and with a lit staff you could overcome the spell dmg reduction...

But you wanted your precious spell and weapon dmg, you gave ZoS IDEAS... and what have they done?

thankyourat

KingJ wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

clocksstoppe wrote: »

At least they fixed cloak..

It won't be fixed. Every update they write the same thing and every update it's still broken

Hey one day they might believe they fixed it.

I've given up hope

arkansas_ESO

thankyourat wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Is the 1500 the heal after battle spirit or it's that the value for pve?

That's the tooltip value, so it'll be halved in PVP. The heal also can't crit.

Strider_Roshin

thankyourat wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Wait I thought you liked the patch lol.

I do, I like it a lot. I just feel like this messed up this move.

You see this move was only good for resource management, and now it's actually harmful for your resource management.

They said they increased our survivability with it, but it's 1500 per light attack; which in PvP would equate to around 3k of healing every 20 seconds.

No joke, I would gain more healing by Slotting Swallow Soul, and increase my healing received passively by 11% than I would by using Leeching Strike.

Is the 1500 the heal after battle spirit or it's that the value for pve?

That's for PvE. I've already tested it in dueling, and it is cut in half by battle spirit, it is reduced by Defile, and it does not crit. It's incredibly underwhelming.