ZOS, nerf Sorc shield

waitwhat · April 2017

Hexys wrote: »

I still can't wait until plebs can show respect to good players instead of going to cry on the forums.

I still can't wait until those who use the word pleb get permabanned, but I guess we all have our challenges.

Edziu · April 2017

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Floki_Vilgerdarson · April 2017

Every Sorc will be wearing 5 piece heavy in PVP if shields get nerfed again. Sorcs will then put out two pets and then a Storm Atro ultimate and good luck killing them before they still streak away leaving you mines to trip on. You will beg for the old shields back.

Floki

Biro123 · April 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Shields would be fine if not for damage mitigation and block applying to the damage before the shield.

If the order of damage was changed so that shields were dealt with before undeath, pirate skeleton etc, and blocking. All is fine with shields, matter of fact they probably would need a slight buff.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Blocking and armour mitigation does not apply to the shield.

Vampire does, but on the flip side, the extra flame damage also applies to shields.

This is why pirate skelly is so popular because it does apply to shields and its one of the few ways sorcs can get this kind of effect, and its the strongest by far.
The only other way to 'protect' the shield us by avoidance.. Ie dodging.

And yes, unless you're stacking huuuge shields, you need a way to protect them. Otherwise being focused by 2 competent players drops them quicker than you can spam them.

waitwhat · April 2017

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Every Sorc will be wearing 5 piece heavy in PVP if shields get nerfed again. Sorcs will then put out two pets and then a Storm Atro ultimate and good luck killing them before they still streak away leaving you mines to trip on. You will beg for the old shields back.

Floki

Hi.

Sorcs are already doing this. They have been doing this for a while, minus the storm atro bit.

This is why Necropotence jewelry and staves are so expensive, but Necropotence armor pieces are not.

GrigorijMalahevich · April 2017

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

rfennell_ESO · April 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Shields would be fine if not for damage mitigation and block applying to the damage before the shield.

If the order of damage was changed so that shields were dealt with before undeath, pirate skeleton etc, and blocking. All is fine with shields, matter of fact they probably would need a slight buff.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Blocking and armour mitigation does not apply to the shield.

Vampire does, but on the flip side, the extra flame damage also applies to shields.

This is why pirate skelly is so popular because it does apply to shields and its one of the few ways sorcs can get this kind of effect, and its the strongest by far.
The only other way to 'protect' the shield us by avoidance.. Ie dodging.

And yes, unless you're stacking huuuge shields, you need a way to protect them. Otherwise being focused by 2 competent players drops them quicker than you can spam them.

I was under the impression that block was applied before the shield, it's pretty convoluted to figure.

from: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-homestead/p1

MITIGATION BEFORE DAMAGE SHIELD:
30% Major Maim (All)
Dawns Wrath Ultimate: Nova
15% Minor Maim (All)
One Hand and Shield Ability: Low Slash
Draconic Power Ability: Choking Talons
Shadow Ability: Summon Shade
Shadow Ability: Mass Hysteria
Alchemy Poison Effect: Maiming
Alchemy Poison Effect: Brutality-Draining
Armor Set: Knightmare
Secondary Elemental Effect: Chilled
30% Major Protection (All)
Shadow Ultimate: Consuming Darkness (Bolstering Darkness Morph makes it 60% for Caster)
Armor Set: Pirate Skeleton
8% Minor Protection (All)
Restoring Light Ability: Restoring Focus
Fighters Guild Ability: Circle of Protection
Shadow Ability: Dark Cloak
Alchemy Potion Effect: Protection
Armor Set: Vampire Cloak
5% Minor Aegis (Dungeon and Trial Dmg)
Armor Set: Lunar Bastion
Armor Set: Eternal Yokeda
Armor Set: Twilight Remedy
6% Nord Passive: Rugged (All)
0-33% Vampire Passive: Undeath (All) (Increases incrementally by 1% per ~1.5% hp lost below 50% hp)
75% Vampire Ability: Mist Form (All)
0-25% CP Passive: Hardy (Physical, Poison, Disease)
0-24% CP Passive: Thick Skin (DoT's)
0-25% CP Passive: Elemental Defender (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
0-25% CP Passive: Expert Defender (Light, Heavy attacks(PvP))
20% Dual Wield Ability: Blade Cloak (AoE)
20% Ardent Flame Ultimate: Standard of Might (All)
15% (+4% per target) Aedric Spear Ultimate: Empowering Sweep (All)
5%/20% Armor Set: Bastion of the Heartland (Player Dmg/Siege Dmg & Player AoE Spells)
5% Armor Set: Shield of the Valiant (Player Dmg)
5% Armor Set: Buffer of the Swift (Player Dmg)
25% Armor Set: Leki's Focus (AoE)
15% Armor Set: Light of Cyrodiil (All while Casting or Channeling Spell)
35% Armor Set: Reactive Armor (All while CC'ed)
50% PvP Effects: Battle Spirit (All)
30% Support Ability: Guard (All)

That's a lot of stuff that's applied before hitting a shield, and why you see *some* players with shields you can't seem to get by.

Block is after that shield it seems, so I was mistaken.

Floki_Vilgerdarson · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Floki_Vilgerdarson wrote: »

Every Sorc will be wearing 5 piece heavy in PVP if shields get nerfed again. Sorcs will then put out two pets and then a Storm Atro ultimate and good luck killing them before they still streak away leaving you mines to trip on. You will beg for the old shields back.

Floki

Hi.

Sorcs are already doing this. They have been doing this for a while, minus the storm atro bit.

This is why Necropotence jewelry and staves are so expensive, but Necropotence armor pieces are not.

I wear 5 light on my Sorc for the 5000 penetration passive and the sustain light provides. I don't want to join the Black Rose, beat the crap out of me for magic regen club.

waitwhat · April 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth and they follow you around with hurricane?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

EDIT: The issue with shields is that they take away the sacrifice of being a sorc. Specifically, they remove the risk from the undeniably huge--perhaps the largest of all classes--burst damage, coupled with excellent sustain via Dark Exhange/Dark Deal.

Playing a class should require sacrifices and weaknesses. Sorcs excel at sustain, damage, and defense. They, and all classes, should only excel at two at most.

DO NOT speak to me about suffering in light armor. There are PLENTY of powerful magicka heavy armor sets/builds, and nobody is running around in light armor expecting to survive a chance encounter. While heavy armor remains overpowered, in that it provides too much sustain and damage boost relative to it's defense rating, that discussion is not germane to the over performance of sorcs.

Hutch679 · April 2017

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

Gonna disagree, blocking is your block, shield stacking is your primary damage mitigation which has a very simple application on top of the fact that you can block, dodgeroll, break free like every other classes.

You just use damage shields at a superior level to any other class in the game with very little drawback. Sorc has one of the highest reward vs risk thresholds in the game, the class is easy.

I disagree with your disagree. Sorcs shouldn't be using block unless 110% last resort or against a meteor. They need stam to break free on cc. Have you ever played a sorc? Or are you just speaking hypothetical's because you've pvp'ed against a few in Cyrodiil?

GrigorijMalahevich · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

You struggle to read or? You time your burst 0.5 seconds before shield goes down. I hope you can count to 6.

Thing is - if you randomly encounter sorcs open world and do not apply any pressure, they will not recast shield after 2-3 times, you just jump around healing yourself and waiting.

Example of a timed burst if you don't understand what I mean:
Stamdk twohand vs magsorc. Magsorc uses shield, stamdk in 3-4 seconds after shield is casted uses wings (just as example) and uses gapcloser in to dizzily swing -> leap-> execute execute... the idea is to try to land swing when shields are down and it is a super easy kill... don't forget to charge heavy attack while gap closing...

waitwhat · April 2017

Valera Progib wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

You struggle to read or? You time your burst 0.5 seconds before shield goes down. I hope you can count to 6.

Thing is - if you randomly encounter sorcs open world and do not apply any pressure, they will not recast shield after 2-3 times, you just jump around healing yourself and waiting.

Example of a timed burst if you don't understand what I mean:
Stamdk twohand vs magsorc. Magsorc uses shield, stamdk in 3-4 seconds after shield is casted uses wings (just as example) and uses gapcloser in to dizzily swing -> leap-> execute execute... the idea is to try to land swing when shields are down and it is a super easy kill... don't forget to charge heavy attack while gap closing...

1. "You just jump around healing yourself and waiting." You mean torch all my stam on roll dodging and vigor while they frag me and pop hurricane?
2. "They will not recast shield after 2-3 times" They sure will if you're a nightblade.
3. If it really is a "get gud" issue, teach me. Give me an example with a stamblade, not some DK with large innate resistances.

Biro123 · April 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Shields would be fine if not for damage mitigation and block applying to the damage before the shield.

If the order of damage was changed so that shields were dealt with before undeath, pirate skeleton etc, and blocking. All is fine with shields, matter of fact they probably would need a slight buff.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Blocking and armour mitigation does not apply to the shield.

Vampire does, but on the flip side, the extra flame damage also applies to shields.

This is why pirate skelly is so popular because it does apply to shields and its one of the few ways sorcs can get this kind of effect, and its the strongest by far.
The only other way to 'protect' the shield us by avoidance.. Ie dodging.

And yes, unless you're stacking huuuge shields, you need a way to protect them. Otherwise being focused by 2 competent players drops them quicker than you can spam them.

I was under the impression that block was applied before the shield, it's pretty convoluted to figure.

from: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-homestead/p1

MITIGATION BEFORE DAMAGE SHIELD:
30% Major Maim (All)
Dawns Wrath Ultimate: Nova
15% Minor Maim (All)
One Hand and Shield Ability: Low Slash
Draconic Power Ability: Choking Talons
Shadow Ability: Summon Shade
Shadow Ability: Mass Hysteria
Alchemy Poison Effect: Maiming
Alchemy Poison Effect: Brutality-Draining
Armor Set: Knightmare
Secondary Elemental Effect: Chilled
30% Major Protection (All)
Shadow Ultimate: Consuming Darkness (Bolstering Darkness Morph makes it 60% for Caster)
Armor Set: Pirate Skeleton
8% Minor Protection (All)
Restoring Light Ability: Restoring Focus
Fighters Guild Ability: Circle of Protection
Shadow Ability: Dark Cloak
Alchemy Potion Effect: Protection
Armor Set: Vampire Cloak
5% Minor Aegis (Dungeon and Trial Dmg)
Armor Set: Lunar Bastion
Armor Set: Eternal Yokeda
Armor Set: Twilight Remedy
6% Nord Passive: Rugged (All)
0-33% Vampire Passive: Undeath (All) (Increases incrementally by 1% per ~1.5% hp lost below 50% hp)
75% Vampire Ability: Mist Form (All)
0-25% CP Passive: Hardy (Physical, Poison, Disease)
0-24% CP Passive: Thick Skin (DoT's)
0-25% CP Passive: Elemental Defender (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
0-25% CP Passive: Expert Defender (Light, Heavy attacks(PvP))
20% Dual Wield Ability: Blade Cloak (AoE)
20% Ardent Flame Ultimate: Standard of Might (All)
15% (+4% per target) Aedric Spear Ultimate: Empowering Sweep (All)
5%/20% Armor Set: Bastion of the Heartland (Player Dmg/Siege Dmg & Player AoE Spells)
5% Armor Set: Shield of the Valiant (Player Dmg)
5% Armor Set: Buffer of the Swift (Player Dmg)
25% Armor Set: Leki's Focus (AoE)
15% Armor Set: Light of Cyrodiil (All while Casting or Channeling Spell)
35% Armor Set: Reactive Armor (All while CC'ed)
50% PvP Effects: Battle Spirit (All)
30% Support Ability: Guard (All)

That's a lot of stuff that's applied before hitting a shield, and why you see *some* players with shields you can't seem to get by.

Block is after that shield it seems, so I was mistaken.

While that's a pretty huge list, I'm gonna trim it down a bit..

First I'll take out non-sorc class abilities:
Dawns Wrath Ultimate: Nova
Draconic Power Ability: Choking Talons
Shadow Ability: Summon Shade
Shadow Ability: Mass Hysteria
Shadow Ultimate: Consuming Darkness (Bolstering Darkness Morph makes it 60% for Caster)
Restoring Light Ability: Restoring Focus
Shadow Ability: Dark Cloak
20% Ardent Flame Ultimate: Standard of Might (All)
15% (+4% per target) Aedric Spear Ultimate: Empowering Sweep (All)

And stam/weapon abilities - no magsorc is gonna use these:
One Hand and Shield Ability: Low Slash
Fighters Guild Ability: Circle of Protection
20% Dual Wield Ability: Blade Cloak (AoE)

Then I'll take out debuffs - as they apply to the attacker and reduce his outgoing damage to everything - there is nothing special about shields here:
30% Major Maim (All)
15% Minor Maim (All)
Alchemy Poison Effect: Maiming
Secondary Elemental Effect: Chilled

Then armour sets that a sorc is never gonna wear:
Armor Set: Knightmare
Armor Set: Vampire Cloak
Armor Set: Lunar Bastion
Armor Set: Eternal Yokeda
Armor Set: Twilight Remedy
5%/20% Armor Set: Bastion of the Heartland (Player Dmg/Siege Dmg & Player AoE Spells)
5% Armor Set: Shield of the Valiant (Player Dmg)
5% Armor Set: Buffer of the Swift (Player Dmg)
25% Armor Set: Leki's Focus (AoE)
15% Armor Set: Light of Cyrodiil (All while Casting or Channeling Spell)
35% Armor Set: Reactive Armor (All while CC'ed)

And stuff that just doesn't count:
5% Minor Aegis (Dungeon and Trial Dmg)
50% PvP Effects: Battle Spirit (All) - since shield strength is also halved...
30% Major Protection (All) - sources of it already listed
8% Minor Protection (All) - sources of it already listed

Then the very unlikely to see on a magsorc:
6% Nord Passive: Rugged (All)
0-33% Vampire Passive: Undeath (All) (Increases incrementally by 1% per ~1.5% hp lost below 50% hp)
75% Vampire Ability: Mist Form (All)

Which leaves is with..:
Alchemy Poison Effect: Brutality-Draining
Armor Set: Pirate Skeleton
Alchemy Potion Effect: Protection
0-25% CP Passive: Hardy (Physical, Poison, Disease)
0-24% CP Passive: Thick Skin (DoT's)
0-25% CP Passive: Elemental Defender (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
0-25% CP Passive: Expert Defender (Light, Heavy attacks(PvP))
30% Support Ability: Guard (All)

Out of those, if you exclude CP's as they have an equal and opposite dmg increasing passive. - and you have to choose between these or bastion so they're often quite low on sorcs - then you're only really left with pirate skeleton as the main reliable choice. I'm not 100% sure on pots but I believe they either have a very short duration or are very weak.
Guard you can spot a mile away - and obviously relied on someone else.

Floki_Vilgerdarson · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth and they follow you around with hurricane?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

EDIT: The issue with shields is that they take away the sacrifice of being a sorc. Specifically, they remove the risk from the undeniably huge--perhaps the largest of all classes--burst damage, coupled with excellent sustain via Dark Exhange/Dark Deal.

Playing a class should require sacrifices and weaknesses. Sorcs excel at sustain, damage, and defense. They, and all classes, should only excel at two at most.

DO NOT speak to me about suffering in light armor. There are PLENTY of powerful magicka heavy armor sets/builds, and nobody is running around in light armor expecting to survive a chance encounter. While heavy armor remains overpowered, in that it provides too much sustain and damage boost relative to it's defense rating, that discussion is not germane to the over performance of sorcs.

You stated above "and nobody is running around in light armor expecting to survive a chance encounter."

I am nobody.

waitwhat · April 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth and they follow you around with hurricane?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

EDIT: The issue with shields is that they take away the sacrifice of being a sorc. Specifically, they remove the risk from the undeniably huge--perhaps the largest of all classes--burst damage, coupled with excellent sustain via Dark Exhange/Dark Deal.

Playing a class should require sacrifices and weaknesses. Sorcs excel at sustain, damage, and defense. They, and all classes, should only excel at two at most.

DO NOT speak to me about suffering in light armor. There are PLENTY of powerful magicka heavy armor sets/builds, and nobody is running around in light armor expecting to survive a chance encounter. While heavy armor remains overpowered, in that it provides too much sustain and damage boost relative to it's defense rating, that discussion is not germane to the over performance of sorcs.

You stated above "and nobody is running around in light armor expecting to survive a chance encounter."

I am nobody.

Are you expecting to survive a chance encounter?

Hutch679 · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Haha, get gud @op

Seriously, this has to stop. If you can't kill someone it is not due to the class being too strong, maybe, just maybe - you are the weaker player...

Shields last for 6 seconds - no point to constantly damage them and let sorc reapply shield use couple of attacks and again reapply shield - you will lose. You either do the same with heal and break line of sight or actually use your brain and attacks sorcs stamina then CC and game over.

Option number two, you can actually use some brain and count seconds, sorcs uses shields, you do some skills, roll dodge and the second shields are down you do your burst. If as a stamina class you can't burst full hp magsorc without shields, you are doing something wrong. Repeat untill sorc is dead...

If sorc reapplies shield even when not under pressure/before shields wear off, then again, attack their stamina.

So what do you do when the shield wears off, and then they instantly recast it? Do you just leave them alone forever all while they spam Crystal Frags and their pet pulls you out of stealth?

You don't get it. The problem isn't what to do while shields are up; it's that shields are always up, or just come right back up unless you one or two shot someone, and they provide 100% crit resist to a class that has massive burst damage.

You struggle to read or? You time your burst 0.5 seconds before shield goes down. I hope you can count to 6.

Thing is - if you randomly encounter sorcs open world and do not apply any pressure, they will not recast shield after 2-3 times, you just jump around healing yourself and waiting.

Example of a timed burst if you don't understand what I mean:
Stamdk twohand vs magsorc. Magsorc uses shield, stamdk in 3-4 seconds after shield is casted uses wings (just as example) and uses gapcloser in to dizzily swing -> leap-> execute execute... the idea is to try to land swing when shields are down and it is a super easy kill... don't forget to charge heavy attack while gap closing...

1. "You just jump around healing yourself and waiting." You mean torch all my stam on roll dodging and vigor while they frag me and pop hurricane?
2. "They will not recast shield after 2-3 times" They sure will if you're a nightblade.
3. If it really is a "get gud" issue, teach me. Give me an example with a stamblade, not some DK with large innate resistances.

1 roll dodge an vigor depletes your stamina? Lmao what kinda build you running buddy that's awful lol hurricane on a magical sorc Lmao you don't play a sorc do you.... lol hurricane... lol sorry bro.... LOL. LAUGH OUT LOUD!

Dude if you can't kill a sorc, then you need more practice in pvp. Don't spend time on the forum saying that skills and abilities need need when for 1 you've never played the class, and two you don't even know the skills someone is using i.e. hurricane is a stamina morph that only stamina sorcs use...

For some training, ganking is one way to play. Another way to play is actually using some sustain to outskill an opponent that is attacking and pressuring you defensively. All out attack is not a good way to fight sorcs. Line of sight, pressure, cc, and good defense are great ways to counter sorcs. I've never played a night blade so I can't comment further on that class specifically. However, I have played a stam dk. I know that if I see a sorc on my stam dk I have the best chance of killing that sorc by timing skills correctly so that I can stun them when they don't have a shield up and by playing line of sight and defensive when they try to pressure me.

Apherius · April 2017

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

waitwhat · April 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Waffennacht · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Boundless Storm brah, boundless storm

Hutch679 · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

waitwhat · April 2017

Hutch679 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

Uh no. Stamsorcs have shields too, and the ability has a magicka morph, so the point still stands.

Hutch679 · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

waitwhat wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

Uh no. Stamsorcs have shields too, and the ability has a magicka morph, so the point still stands.

You have got to be kidding lmao boundless storm only does like 600 damage every 2 seconds.... dude this is a learn to play issue for sure... get back out there and start practicing haha

Waffennacht · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

Uh no. Stamsorcs have shields too, and the ability has a magicka morph, so the point still stands.

.... don't dude... just don't...

First off boundless does like 500 dps max in PvP. Second... what stam build you know runs a minimum of 35k magicka (provides like a 6k or 7k ward which is still weak af)?

Please man, hurricane is awesome on a stam sorc, boundless or hurricane on a mag build is lackluster at best.

Araviel2 · April 2017

waitwhat wrote: »

1. "You just jump around healing yourself and waiting." You mean torch all my stam on roll dodging and vigor while they frag me and pop hurricane?
2. "They will not recast shield after 2-3 times" They sure will if you're a nightblade.
3. If it really is a "get gud" issue, teach me. Give me an example with a stamblade, not some DK with large innate resistances.

please roll a sorc and learn the class, you seem to have no clue at all.
if they are popping hurricane then you are not fighting a magsorc, and no sorc can c-frag you if you are dodging.

and here is some tip if you want to get "gud".
a good sorc relies on delayed damage and will try and time his bursts whit his curse.
and that burst is not hard to interupt. dodge but also use your bash. if you are lucky you catch him hardcasting, and after that just go apeshit on him.
if you can't survive a sorc when he is not bursting then you need to revisit your build as you are probably to fragile to fight just about any class in cyrodil.

Hutch679 · April 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

waitwhat wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Durham wrote: »

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

oh no! same thing is with nb if he is dropped from cloak when he trying go to defense.
look, youe have around 10k damage to absorb per shield, crit, penetration build dont work with it, nb have just cloak and rolldodge or 1 shield which also is going down very fast as on nb
nb cloaking, you using det pot or aoe, nb dopped from cloak and dead
sorc spamming with dmg shield and procing crystal frags while applying nonstop curse when it end etc, it hard to drop on sorc all shield into raw health, when you do it he instantly recasting all shield and game started again to take down sorc;

bn just avoiding damage and agaoin goint into cloak, cloak broken/countered(many counter lol), nuke nb on his raw health and kill him easy on combo

deal with it

dk/templar will just tank damage and heal it but they need to heal everything instantle before drop health into low amount to survive while sorc will just recast shields and he can use 2-3 other skill before his shields will drop in normal fight ofc

Maybe because Nb have more burst than the sorcerer , the NB is a ganker , he have a low defense and a big burst ....
and it's a "Sorcerer nerf shield" topic , why do you talk about the Nb ?!! We can't compare 2 class .

Sorcs have higher burst than nightblades with crystal frags, hurricane, and curse. Incap is an ultimate that you can't spam, and much of the nightblade's burst is crit damage, which shields fully mitigate.

If we compare the two, sorcs regretfully come out on top.

Again with the hurricane.... lol THAT'S A STAMINA SKILL! Dude you don't even know what you're talking about bruh

Uh no. Stamsorcs have shields too, and the ability has a magicka morph, so the point still stands.

.... don't dude... just don't...

First off boundless does like 500 dps max in PvP. Second... what stam build you know runs a minimum of 35k magicka (provides like a 6k or 7k ward which is still weak af)?

Please man, hurricane is awesome on a stam sorc, boundless or hurricane on a mag build is lackluster at best.

This. The only reason PERIOD that mag sorcs run boundless storm is for the run speed when escaping lol

rfennell_ESO · April 2017

Biro123 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Shields would be fine if not for damage mitigation and block applying to the damage before the shield.

If the order of damage was changed so that shields were dealt with before undeath, pirate skeleton etc, and blocking. All is fine with shields, matter of fact they probably would need a slight buff.

I'm pretty sure this is wrong. Blocking and armour mitigation does not apply to the shield.

Vampire does, but on the flip side, the extra flame damage also applies to shields.

This is why pirate skelly is so popular because it does apply to shields and its one of the few ways sorcs can get this kind of effect, and its the strongest by far.
The only other way to 'protect' the shield us by avoidance.. Ie dodging.

And yes, unless you're stacking huuuge shields, you need a way to protect them. Otherwise being focused by 2 competent players drops them quicker than you can spam them.

I was under the impression that block was applied before the shield, it's pretty convoluted to figure.

from: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-and-list-of-options-updated-for-homestead/p1

MITIGATION BEFORE DAMAGE SHIELD:
30% Major Maim (All)
Dawns Wrath Ultimate: Nova
15% Minor Maim (All)
One Hand and Shield Ability: Low Slash
Draconic Power Ability: Choking Talons
Shadow Ability: Summon Shade
Shadow Ability: Mass Hysteria
Alchemy Poison Effect: Maiming
Alchemy Poison Effect: Brutality-Draining
Armor Set: Knightmare
Secondary Elemental Effect: Chilled
30% Major Protection (All)
Shadow Ultimate: Consuming Darkness (Bolstering Darkness Morph makes it 60% for Caster)
Armor Set: Pirate Skeleton
8% Minor Protection (All)
Restoring Light Ability: Restoring Focus
Fighters Guild Ability: Circle of Protection
Shadow Ability: Dark Cloak
Alchemy Potion Effect: Protection
Armor Set: Vampire Cloak
5% Minor Aegis (Dungeon and Trial Dmg)
Armor Set: Lunar Bastion
Armor Set: Eternal Yokeda
Armor Set: Twilight Remedy
6% Nord Passive: Rugged (All)
0-33% Vampire Passive: Undeath (All) (Increases incrementally by 1% per ~1.5% hp lost below 50% hp)
75% Vampire Ability: Mist Form (All)
0-25% CP Passive: Hardy (Physical, Poison, Disease)
0-24% CP Passive: Thick Skin (DoT's)
0-25% CP Passive: Elemental Defender (Magicka, Shock, Fire, Ice)
0-25% CP Passive: Expert Defender (Light, Heavy attacks(PvP))
20% Dual Wield Ability: Blade Cloak (AoE)
20% Ardent Flame Ultimate: Standard of Might (All)
15% (+4% per target) Aedric Spear Ultimate: Empowering Sweep (All)
5%/20% Armor Set: Bastion of the Heartland (Player Dmg/Siege Dmg & Player AoE Spells)
5% Armor Set: Shield of the Valiant (Player Dmg)
5% Armor Set: Buffer of the Swift (Player Dmg)
25% Armor Set: Leki's Focus (AoE)
15% Armor Set: Light of Cyrodiil (All while Casting or Channeling Spell)
35% Armor Set: Reactive Armor (All while CC'ed)
50% PvP Effects: Battle Spirit (All)
30% Support Ability: Guard (All)

That's a lot of stuff that's applied before hitting a shield, and why you see *some* players with shields you can't seem to get by.

Block is after that shield it seems, so I was mistaken.

While that's a pretty huge list, I'm gonna trim it down a bit..

I was just putting it there for reference, I don't much have an issue with shields past that some people that have built in very particular ways are WAY overpowered with them.

it's the why to is pirate skeleton overpowered though.

It's really only a couple sources of damage that ought not be applied to or deducted from damage to a damage shield.

All Zos has to do is fix a couple functions of damage and then do a balance pass at shields and the issues people have with them largely disappear.

Waffennacht · April 2017

I know Wyrd doesn't Purge Skele
I know Purge doesn Purge Skele

If templar can purge it, imo, they use it better

brandishsteel · April 2017

nerf sorc !

MirkoZ · April 2017

AHAHAHAH, 6 second of shield , and u want a nerf

Excabor · April 2017

Most people that hate sorcerers actually never played one. It is not as easy as you make it sound. lol