ZOS, nerf Sorc shield

Apherius

MrBrandon wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Really, ZOS, you should nerf those sorc, which are using shileds 24/7, it's just impossible to cut through it, also you can't crit on shield! Those shields make sorc class extremely tanky and they also hit like trucks!

Yes, I agree. ZOS needs to allow crit to shields. Sorcs that know how to play the class can deal a crazy amount of damage and eat everything. Hardened ward and light armor ward with bastion.

and it's not normal to deal a crazy amount of damage when you know how to play ? Well the only issue for you is to L2P and therefore deal a crazy ammount of damage with your Nb/templar/dk and destroy their shield .
i really don't understand your logic ... nobody should be nerfed because he know how to play .

iseko

Are you for real? If a sorc can facetank 10 people by casting shields then you guys should equip more proc sets. You are not proccing enough armor.

Izaki

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

Yeah show me a clip of a non-emp Sorc tanking exactly 10 (not less) players and actually killing them all. Yeah, I doubt you'll find anything like that. Exaggeration is good to make a point, but its still gotta be reasonable.

10 players means that there's damage incoming every second from 10 players.
2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up.
Notice how both shields take 2 seconds to put up. 2 global cooldowns. Every global cooldown you're taking damage from 10 players, which is highly likely to be higher than what both shields can take. At this point you're always shielding and even then its not enough to shields you from the incoming damage of 10 players.

Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right? So they all cast the same skill every global, basically all spamming the exact same skill without bothering to do anything else. With 10 players that's already 50k damage every second. You need 2 globals (2 seconds) to put 30k worth of shields up (highly unlikely to have such strong shields). And that's not taking into account all the DoTs you might have on you and some players having higher burst than others. So its impossible for a sorc to tank 10 players.

DeviousCat

Zos please eliminate an entire class from PvP, cause I don't like that one extra shield that lasts for about FOUR Seconds once applied.

It would be much easier for me than LTP.

CyrusArya

Sorcs are strong, sure. But you also sound like a terrible player with your whining. If a sorc is tanking you and 9 other fellow pugs, I assure the problem is on your end. The thing is, in reality, sorcs are great at 1vXing clueless pugs and also great at RunvXing which is where you stick around till things go bad then run away. But sorcs are proportionately weaker the more enemies there are in a way that stam or block builds are not. When it comes to actually facing and taking down multiple opponents, sorcs are outclassed by pretty much any stam build.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Pirate Skeleton is ridiculously OP on sorcs atm and I have a feeling that set is skewing the views a lot of clueless pugs have about class balance. In small scale engagements today, as will be the case in battle grounds, the sorc is always the first one to be focused down and there is a reason for that.

Against competent opponents, even simply 2v1, a sorc will shield stack in futility then get destroyed if they try to hold their ground. Something tells me though that the vast majority of complaints on sorcs come from less than competent players.

Torbschka

*** yes!!!!
Make Europe great again!! *** *** double ***

*** why an I reading every day a different "nerf sorc thread" *** why

*** my life
*** ***

Edit: nerf stam dks plz

Waffennacht

Do cost increase poisons increase the cost of roll dodge or CC break?

Minalan

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Minno

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Waffennacht

Waffennacht wrote: »

Do cost increase poisons increase the cost of roll dodge or CC break?

Anyone?

Torbschka

Know I understand, those are the guys in the forum conplaining about sorcs:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EIsmvB9lvIQ

Even if this is my stamsorc, they created nerf mag sorcs threads after, so sneakyyyy

I guess this are the same guys posting " mag sorc face tanked 10 of us op as *** "

Minalan

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

Asardes

1) Hardeded is 10-15% stronger than harness, which all classes can use.
2) shields have been already nerfed a while back reducing duration to 6s.
3) in PvP shield value is halved

100% L2P issue

Durham

Magicka Sorc play is tough it's a hard class to pull off well it's a class that if your shields drops your dead... a great player playing a sorc makes it more dangerous then any class on field but honestly they are few and far between.. I would say 80 to 90% of your Sorcs are pretty easy to kill..

MrBrandon

Apherius wrote: »

MrBrandon wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

Really, ZOS, you should nerf those sorc, which are using shileds 24/7, it's just impossible to cut through it, also you can't crit on shield! Those shields make sorc class extremely tanky and they also hit like trucks!

Yes, I agree. ZOS needs to allow crit to shields. Sorcs that know how to play the class can deal a crazy amount of damage and eat everything. Hardened ward and light armor ward with bastion.

and it's not normal to deal a crazy amount of damage when you know how to play ? Well the only issue for you is to L2P and therefore deal a crazy ammount of damage with your Nb/templar/dk and destroy their shield .
i really don't understand your logic ... nobody should be nerfed because he know how to play .

Nobody should be nerfed if they know how to play? It's not that is OP right?

psychotic13

Waffennacht wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Do cost increase poisons increase the cost of roll dodge or CC break?

Anyone?

Not actually sure, it says stamina abilities but never never tested it

Hurika

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

Yeah show me a clip of a non-emp Sorc tanking exactly 10 (not less) players and actually killing them all. Yeah, I doubt you'll find anything like that. Exaggeration is good to make a point, but its still gotta be reasonable.

10 players means that there's damage incoming every second from 10 players.
2 shields to stack worth of roughly 20-25k damage absorption that take 2 seconds to put up.
Notice how both shields take 2 seconds to put up. 2 global cooldowns. Every global cooldown you're taking damage from 10 players, which is highly likely to be higher than what both shields can take. At this point you're always shielding and even then its not enough to shields you from the incoming damage of 10 players.

Lets say each player does roughly 5k damage every global right? So they all cast the same skill every global, basically all spamming the exact same skill without bothering to do anything else. With 10 players that's already 50k damage every second. You need 2 globals (2 seconds) to put 30k worth of shields up (highly unlikely to have such strong shields). And that's not taking into account all the DoTs you might have on you and some players having higher burst than others. So its impossible for a sorc to tank 10 players.

Remember those players cannot crit the shields. So are you suggesting it's 5k dps per player against the non-crit shield or against the sorc with shields down. Even that though in a 1v1 they can negate 10-12.5k dps per seconds against a target doing 5k dps (or less depending on how you came up with 5k and crits). So shield, shield, dmg, dmg - rinse repeat and the DPS would never touch the enemies health.

Though even if they did it would take another 4 GCD (assuming ~19-20k health - again depending how you came up with 5k dps) to chew through their health. So really more like shield, shield, dmg, dmg, dmg and you'd realistically take no damage or at least no chance of dying. Now if you throw in runes that for 1 GCD can stun and do dmg (possibly mutliple times) you can shield, shield, runes, dmg, dmg, dmg (maybe more if they are then CC'd by runes) with little risk of taking real damage. If you take into account that the DPS may have to cast a heal every so many GCD's the dps race gets even worse and the sorc can cast more dmg and less shield (to the point the 6s cooldown limits them but then they can interleave the shields and not need to cast back to back).

CC wouldn't help the dps since that's a GCD to CC but a GCD to break free so it's a wash. And by not having to block, there's not a really a huge risk of not having stamina to break free since it's not being used for anything else.

Of course I realize the flip side is ... leave keep without shield, right to death recap.

There needs to be a way to move both of those scenarios to nearly impossible and closer to the middle of the 2. Change them to grant 10-15k armor for 6s but not stack. Gives more defense but not immunity to damage or crit.

Hexys

I still can't wait until plebs can show respect to good players instead of going to cry on the forums.

Mojomonkeyman

Difficult to tell atm whether a player is good or carried by fire-and-forget damage without counters, shield stacking and mSorcs malubeth - the skeleton scrub set.

Laggus

Minalan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

You have block too.

Ashamray

I want 3 things:

1) Harness should restore 2\3 of its own cost as Magicka, not more. Now it can restore more than 5k (!) Magicka.
2) Anulment replaces Ward and vice versa.
3) Shield duration increases from 6 sec to 8.

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Do cost increase poisons increase the cost of roll dodge or CC break?

Anyone?

It didn´t the last time i´ve tested with 1 tam.

Foxic

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

No-one on any class can 1vx good players. If a group of 10 dies to one person they got severely out played

Hutch679

It's a learn to play issue if you can't kill a sorc. All you need to do is take their shield low, not off, then stun them before you hit your burst combo. It's seriously not that hard.

Minalan

Laggus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

You have block too.

It's not quite as effective without heavy armor and 25K+ protection. Everyone knows sword and board works ton better than an ice staff.

Malamar1229

stam players who spam roll dodge which scales perfectly against X players are making nerf threads about a class with shields that scale POORLY against X players...

rfennell_ESO

Shields would be fine if not for damage mitigation and block applying to the damage before the shield.

If the order of damage was changed so that shields were dealt with before undeath, pirate skeleton etc, and blocking. All is fine with shields, matter of fact they probably would need a slight buff.

Gilvoth

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

this ^
well said, that is exactly the problem.

TheBonesXXX

Minalan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

Gonna disagree, blocking is your block, shield stacking is your primary damage mitigation which has a very simple application on top of the fact that you can block, dodgeroll, break free like every other classes.

You just use damage shields at a superior level to any other class in the game with very little drawback. Sorc has one of the highest reward vs risk thresholds in the game, the class is easy.

Derra

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Barbardin wrote: »

But really, when you have a class, which can easily tank 10 players, kill them all an then escape very easy, you know there is something wrong with this game...

You aren't part of the group I solo wiped in Bruma yesterday are you?

Your people didn't heal
They didn't dodge.
They all stood close together and ate a 20K meteor
You didnt coordinate fire
You were more worried about ressing the first two guys I killed than fighting back.
Your templar was too busy spamming radiant on someone with full health than he was healing his dying friends.
I got CC'ed maybe twice, you really need to work that.

Sorc isn't OP, you were just bad.

Someone heard that RD is so OP it kills! Except the forums forgot to say it would kill him, not his target lol.

Shield are fine. Just remove ability to use harness/hardened ward and remove major protect from skeleton (minor protect should be enough).

Shield stacking is our block. You can't have one in the game without the other.

You want to take stacking away? Fine. It'd be like dropping block to 25% damage mitigation instead of 50%. Fair is fair right?

Gonna disagree, blocking is your block, shield stacking is your primary damage mitigation which has a very simple application on top of the fact that you can block, dodgeroll, break free like every other classes.

You just use damage shields at a superior level to any other class in the game with very little drawback. Sorc has one of the highest reward vs risk thresholds in the game, the class is easy.

It´s not that easy.

It´s overperforming for and against average players. A good sorc however is not as threatening as a good dmg templar or a good nb.

If you´d take away what lets sorc overperform defensive wise (harness/dampen stacking on hardened aswell as pirate skeleton) - i´m pretty sure we´d see universal agreement that the class needs slight buffs/adjustments relatively fast.