Is Animation Cancelling a Feature, not a Bug?

Rainwhisper · March 2017

I've been seeing the necessity of animation cancelling coming up more and more in posts about end-game, veteran DPS. I know that the Elder Scrolls series has always been an action RPG as opposed to a straight-up numbers crunch. Consequently, your ability to aim, stay on your target, rapidly execute skills matter a lot in Elder Scrolls games.

Nonetheless, is the consensus that the game is built to require you to animation cancel to succeed in end-game content?

Also, is there a consensus method for animation cancelling? I doubt I'll ever be using it, since I can kill all the solo PvE mobs I need to without it

, but I am curious what people are talking about. As usual, the YouTube videos were less than helpful, and clearly not made for someone over 40!

Tryxus · March 2017

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

DeadlyRecluse · March 2017

It's both.

Rainwhisper · March 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

LuminaLilly · March 2017

It's useful for increasing dps in pve content, but from it, exploits from pvp are born, like snipe glitching and macro slice.

WarpigFunk · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

How does it break immersion exactly?

Bombashaman · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

No you aren't

I hope ZOS doesn't design solo content that needs AC to be succesful. Couldn't care less about group or PvP content, though.

wolfdoggie_ESO · March 2017

It's a mechanic flaw, like most games that have it. Devs are typically too lazy to fix it or don't care to. Use it if you want to although some elitist might actually scold you for not doing it. The game doesn't require it but it'd still make you murder things faster.

klowdy1 · March 2017

Almost all games with action combat have animation canceling. It seems like something the devs would want to remove, but in games like BDO, they seem create skills based on animation canceling.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

It was unintentional, but the consensus of the devs and basically any skilled player is that it adds a layer to the combat system that makes it much more dynamic, fun, and skill-based. As the game has developed, it is clear that the developers have designed skills and balanced content with AC in mind. This is particularly true with the recent patch. Experienced light attack weavers are now even further ahead of the rest, as light attacks have moved into the first or second spot on most damage recaps.

Like it or not, it's here to stay. I am in the camp that thinks for the most part, it is a good thing. Is it required to clear most content? No, but I am sure as heck not running VMOL HM with someone that refuses to weave. Both your sustain and DPS would take a noticeable hit.

Rainwhisper · March 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It was unintentional, but the consensus of the devs and basically any skilled player is that it adds a layer to the combat system that makes it much more dynamic, fun, and skill-based.

That makes perfect sense. I'm definitely old-school RPG, in that I want combat to be numbers/gear based, not click-speed/coordination-based.

But I don't plan on running veteran content any time soon, if ever. If I do, it will be as a tank. Is animation-cancelling important for tanks?

idk · March 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

Exactly this. Devs mentioned it was unintended and that it is now an accepted part of the game fully endorsed by Zos.

Amadis001 · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

But I don't plan on running veteran content any time soon, if ever. If I do, it will be as a tank. Is animation-cancelling important for tanks?

When I'm face-tanking a boss, DPS in general goes out the window. My goal is 100% staying alive, keeping aggro on the boss, debuffing him and buffing the team, in that order. DPS is a distant 5th priority, and in any challenging encounter I don't even bother to sneak in an extra light attack; dropping my block for a fraction of a second could be the mistake that hurts the team.

But a tank isn't always tanking. For the rest of a run, for example if I'm putting down choking talons on a big mob, I'm happy to switch to my DW back-bar and help murder stuff. It's obviously not critical in most cases, but having a decent rotation in _that_ situation can't hurt.

bulbousb16_ESO · March 2017

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

Eirella · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

LOL

lolo_01b16_ESO · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It was unintentional, but the consensus of the devs and basically any skilled player is that it adds a layer to the combat system that makes it much more dynamic, fun, and skill-based.

That makes perfect sense. I'm definitely old-school RPG, in that I want combat to be numbers/gear based, not click-speed/coordination-based.

But I don't plan on running veteran content any time soon, if ever. If I do, it will be as a tank. Is animation-cancelling important for tanks?

Well, from my experience animation canceling is something you just naturaly often do, especially when tanking. I mean, when you use a skill and then, while pressing the key you notice the boss starts charging a special attack. Will you wait untill the animation of your skill is finished? Or will you just instantly bash the boss no matter what your character is currently doing?

But you don't need to spend time to practise animation canceling, if that's what you fear.

Magdalina · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

I might well be missing something becaue it's my first MMO and maybe I'm just taking a lot of things differently than someone with prior MMO experience, but isn't it quite the contrary? A skilled swordsman would make his sword weave into next attack right from the previous one, not patiently wait for his sword to return back to its original posture, no? Seems to make sense for a mage to interweave his spells for biggest effect too if his goal is fast paced combat.

I can't quite imagine what ESO combat should be like without it...does it mean we'd have to always wait for any skill we start to fully play its (rather slow in many cases) animation? "Press a key - waaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiitttttt - press a key - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiitttttttt- ..." ...maybe it'd look prettier but it just seems so...boring to me

Also what happens if an enemy does a heavy attack while we're in the middle of the animation in that scenario? Do we just die because we're unable to cancel it and block/dodge instead?
That's not trying to be condescending, it's genuinely something ever so puzzling to me every time I see topics like this, I feel like I'm missing something

paulsimonps · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

You say its a bug but its something that even the developers are basing their balance around and said we should use.

raidentenshu_ESO · March 2017

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

This is why I refuse to PvP in this game due this exploitative practice.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Pretty much what others have already said

Developers admitted early on it was unintentional but kept as it adds a layer of depth to combat that is more fluid and fast paced.

But personally I dislike it as it is just a button mashing feature where you can fire off attacks that cannot be seen or heard until the abilities have already been applied. Which IMO is immersion breaking and I wish it would be removed and the game adjusted back to where animations should actually be important

Danksta · March 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

This is why I refuse to PvP in this game due this exploitative practice.

That's pretty arrogant to think you'd determine what is cheating in this game instead of the developers.

Magdalina · March 2017

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

CyrusArya · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

lol Mag, dont bother with logic with these types. They will do extreme mental gymnastics to justify their inability to perform.

Royaji · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

It was unintentional, but the consensus of the devs and basically any skilled player is that it adds a layer to the combat system that makes it much more dynamic, fun, and skill-based.

That makes perfect sense. I'm definitely old-school RPG, in that I want combat to be numbers/gear based, not click-speed/coordination-based.

But I don't plan on running veteran content any time soon, if ever. If I do, it will be as a tank. Is animation-cancelling important for tanks?

In trials tanks perma-block. You can say that is a sort of animation cancelling and it might be somewhat immersion breaking for some people but it is significantly easier to pull off. No button mashing just always hold block.

Rainwhisper · March 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

lol Mag, dont bother with logic with these types. They will do extreme mental gymnastics to justify their inability to perform.

I think you are reading more into my initial question and subsequent comment than I intended.

I freely admit that one of the reasons I like turn-based RPG's is that I am a lousy arcade/FPS gamer. (Which is a little surprising considering my IRL profession, but there are fewer buttons to press on a firearm ; ) ).

For me, it's immersion breaking because, at least from the videos I saw, it doesn't show the full flow of the animations, and looks rushed and jerky. It makes PvE fights look like PvP to me.

Shad0wfire99 · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

This guy. Every time someone says "animation cancelling" this guy pops out from under his bridge.

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2017

Weave master race.

It is a feature. Everyone calling AC bugbor exploit should get gud, this game is already super casual friendly. Stop. Stop it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

Who is this "we" nonsense? YOU dont like it and I am 99% sure it's a L2P issue. I have never met a skilled player that wanted it removed.

raglau · March 2017

It's an accepted side effect, as others say. It's not really important to learn until vet trials. All 4 man content in the game - including vet-DLC - can be largely facerolled by any normally skilled player without touching animation cancelling. Sure, you can add DPS by learning it, but the standard dungeon content does not require it as the skill bar is relatively low.

Tanks do not tend to use it.

hmsdragonfly · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

It doesn't break immersion actually. It looks pretty cool and immersive when your character throw a Jav then dodge roll.

Magdalina · March 2017

Rainwhisper wrote: »

For me, it's immersion breaking because, at least from the videos I saw, it doesn't show the full flow of the animations, and looks rushed and jerky. It makes PvE fights look like PvP to me.

That's fair enough I guess. I actually love watching some high-end folks in action, sometimes it does look a bit jerky but still, overall I kinda get an "ohhhh wow that's so op" feeling from watching just how fast and with visible easy they cycle through their skills to push absolutely op dps number and melt everything in seconds

There's a joy in watching people do something they're good at. Even if it's in a game. Like woooow fire-lightning-fire-fire-lightning-dark magic bam everything's melted xD