Is Animation Cancelling a Feature, not a Bug?

Shunravi

LilySix wrote: »

In fact if you're doing a DD test, it's useless to do that. Your light attack won't show quicker (on PS4 i mean, we've tested it with one of the best french DK on PS4 EU), so you don't get more DPS (that's a lie, a tale). BUT during trials it's very very very ok to do so as you are blocking "all the time" and get less damages...

block/roll canceling? Yea, that does nothing but defense.

If you want to DPS faster you must work on your rotate to push the right button at the right time...

If you are talking about attack weaving, that is also animation canceling. And that does increase your dps.

There is also swap canceling which can help efectively apply backbar dots.

strikeback1247

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

It's not that confusing at all. Don't you see? When someone uses animation cancelling gives them an unfair advantage over others in form of DPS numbers. Those who uses animation cancelling can boost their DPS up far more then someone who doesn't use it. This is unfair IMO. combat animation is there for a reason... to provide realism.

Tell me something. Do you think the top players in this game would have 40k or 50k DPS without using any kind of animation cancelling whatsoever? What if ZOS actually took action and decided to finally fix the animation cancelling bug? You would see that the top players would no longer have the kind of DPS numbers that they love to brag about on Youtube.

I think players that use active skills are also cheating. They have an unfair advantage over players that do not use skills.

GawdSB

It's now a feature. And it takes work to master it, so it's something I'll never even attempt to try and implement into my rotation.

Some of it is already done accidentally though while in combat, like doing an ability then weapon swapping, or rolling or blocking.

Weaving is pretty easy though, so I'd put that in there.

Shunravi

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

It's not that confusing at all. Don't you see? When someone uses animation cancelling gives them an unfair advantage over others in form of DPS numbers. Those who uses animation cancelling can boost their DPS up far more then someone who doesn't use it. This is unfair IMO. combat animation is there for a reason... to provide realism.

Tell me something. Do you think the top players in this game would have 40k or 50k DPS without using any kind of animation cancelling whatsoever? What if ZOS actually took action and decided to finally fix the animation cancelling bug? You would see that the top players would no longer have the kind of DPS numbers that they love to brag about on Youtube.

Again, where is the unfair advantage? Everyone can do it. You can do it before you even get gear or food, or even enough skills for a rotation. It is freely available to everyone.

As a practitioner of martial arts and a fan of real non-hollywood combat, it is appaling how unrealistic, wide open, and clumsy the animations in this game are. For me the realism argument people like to use is ludicrous. At least with animation canceling you can approach something close to real combat.

Crafts_Many_Boxes

Hey all, just joined the forums but I've been playing actively for a few weeks now. I'm not even 50 yet (taking my time with it, enjoying the story / crafting / completing each zone fully / etc), but I do browse these forums a lot at work.

From the perspective of a newcomer, animation cancelling seems scary and kinda messed up. Having to actually swap action bars on the fly in combat already seems annoying, but reading that I actually have to clip animations and mash keys like a maniac while weaving light attacks in between skills to be successful at high end endgame makes me want to vomit. I doubt I'll ever get "good" enough to compete at that "level", despite being in a top tier raiding guild in my previous game.

I'm coming from WoW and more recently Rift, and those games have tons of problems. Tons. I started playing this more because I fully expected to quit Rift altogether. I quit WoW years ago. But one thing they do nicely is combat itself. Global cooldowns and autoattack make it so that you don't have to do janky things like animation cancel in order to squeeze out the most dps possible. You can say it dumbs the game down, but I will counter that by saying this system is counter-intuitive and makes the game feel more like an action game than an MMO.

Despite the differences in combat (lack of ability to create macros is frustrating), ESO seemed like a great game, and I love the Elder Scrolls, so I intended to make it my only MMO moving forward. Now, I fear that I won't be able to compete at endgame because of this animation cancelling and weaving stuff.

I'll probably still play Rift for raiding (when they actually get around to releasing anything, but that's a story for another forum), and stay a "casual" here while I finish out all the content I can do. Not because I want to, but because the underlying game mechanics and this bizarre yet accepted meta will probably prevent me from ever doing anything more. I'm sure a lot of other new / prospective players are in the same boat, just throwing that out there...

idk

Darkstorne wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

This guy. Every time someone says "animation cancelling" this guy pops out from under his bridge.

Yet he doesn't realize that the combat system would be so terrible that he won't even play the game. Not in the sense of adding extra attacks, but even the basic functions such as stopping your Jesus Beam or you Rapid Strikes to block an incoming attack.

No-one is against animation cancelling specifically, just the fact that when you cancel an attack in this game that attack still goes on to deal damage even though your character hasn't executed it. It's a shortcut to avoid the animation durations, dealing damage even though visually your character hasn't executed any attacks, when in all other games that offer animation cancelling the game allows you to cancel into a block or dodge but also actually cancels the skill as a whole, and not just its animation.

Animation cancelling is fine, it if it cancels the damage as well as the animation. Otherwise it just looks weird. I love how fast the game's combat is with the cancelling, but I'd rather ZOS fixed the system so cancelling actually cancels, and if I want to use a skill I need to see the awesome animations that go with it. If they also need to buff the damage of those skills at the same time, to make up for the loss of DPS from this "shortcut", then that's great.

Each and every skill has a CD that during that time no other action can start regardless of animation canceling.

Basically, the devs already took care of s minimum time.

Beyond that it's patently false for anyone to call animation canceling a bug and an unfair advantage. Devs have not only blessed it but they like it being part of the game. Considering his easy it is to do its odd his many spread false information that it's a cheat.

Shunravi

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Hey all, just joined the forums but I've been playing actively for a few weeks now. I'm not even 50 yet (taking my time with it, enjoying the story / crafting / completing each zone fully / etc), but I do browse these forums a lot at work.

From the perspective of a newcomer, animation cancelling seems scary and kinda messed up. Having to actually swap action bars on the fly in combat already seems annoying, but reading that I actually have to clip animations and mash keys like a maniac while weaving light attacks in between skills to be successful at high end endgame makes me want to vomit. I doubt I'll ever get "good" enough to compete at that "level", despite being in a top tier raiding guild in my previous game.

I'm coming from WoW and more recently Rift, and those games have tons of problems. Tons. I started playing this more because I fully expected to quit Rift altogether. I quit WoW years ago. But one thing they do nicely is combat itself. Global cooldowns and autoattack make it so that you don't have to do janky things like animation cancel in order to squeeze out the most dps possible. You can say it dumbs the game down, but I will counter that by saying this system is counter-intuitive and makes the game feel more like an action game than an MMO.

Despite the differences in combat (lack of ability to create macros is frustrating), ESO seemed like a great game, and I love the Elder Scrolls, so I intended to make it my only MMO moving forward. Now, I fear that I won't be able to compete at endgame because of this animation cancelling and weaving stuff.

I'll probably still play Rift for raiding (when they actually get around to releasing anything, but that's a story for another forum), and stay a "casual" here while I finish out all the content I can do. Not because I want to, but because the underlying game mechanics and this bizarre yet accepted meta will probably prevent me from ever doing anything more. I'm sure a lot of other new / prospective players are in the same boat, just throwing that out there...

Its an action mmo. The design is literally action combat.

Stopnaggin

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.


This is why I refuse to PvP in this game due this exploitative practice.

Or you don't know how.

ynimma

So if one knows how to do it properly that makes the whole AC legit and everyone else is a "noob" of some sort - ok, I get it.

I'm just wondering how can anyone expect the games industry to develop further and show more respect towards the requests of the playerbase if this is the quality the same playerbase shows when a repeated problem is being put on the table again?
Molag Bal would surely be proud...

dday3six

Sharee wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

Weave master race.

It is a feature. Everyone calling AC bugbor exploit should get gud, this game is already super casual friendly. Stop. Stop it.

I don't buy the argument that removing animation cancelling would make combat more casual friendly. If anything, the ability to cancel any ongoing animation at any time makes the game much easier.

Take dark souls for example. Once you commit to an animation, there is no coming back, you have to finish it. If you misjudged the enemy, he will kill you because you are unable to block or dodge until your attack finishes. In TESO, if i charge up a wrecking blow against someone who is doing the same, but i'm a split second later (which means i would get stunned before finishing the windup) i can just cancel my "cast" with a roll or block, no problem. That's super casual/forgiving compared to having to actually judge the timing before acting. It is the latter what truly requires skill, IMHO.

For Dark Souls in depends completely on the animation. Some can be canceled, others cannot. It also depends on how far along the animation is. Most of them have a "point of no return", but can be canceled before that. Many can also be cut short after a certain point as well.

The reason you think it is otherwise is due to Dark Souls having more frames per animation.

My point is that *if* dark souls allowed you to cancel any animation at any point and perform a defensive action instead, it would make the game infinitely easier. Therefore removing animation cancelling from TESO(or any game) would not make the game easier, but harder. Which is the opposite of what is often being claimed on this forum.

You don't get credit for a point by using an incorrect example. In Dark Souls a player can run and then without stopping dodge. That's animation canceling, and it exists in most all modern action games because of the fluidity it adds to movement and actions.

The game play wouldn't be harder, it would be different. The game is designed with reactive actions such as blocking and dodging in mind. Removing a player's ability to do those sort of reactions means the game play would need to be altered as well.

Real world physics "...an object in motion, stays in motion...", is the basis for animation canceling, "...unless acted upon by an unbalanced force." Animation Canceling is used in action games to mimic a real world environment of reactive motion so actions do not feel static and unresponsive. A player sees something they want to react to, they can without delay. This is the concept that keeps the pacing for action based games.

idk

ynimma wrote: »

So if one knows how to do it properly that makes the whole AC legit and everyone else is a "noob" of some sort - ok, I get it.

I'm just wondering how can anyone expect the games industry to develop further and show more respect towards the requests of the playerbase if this is the quality the same playerbase shows when a repeated problem is being put on the table again?
Molag Bal would surely be proud...

@ynimma one knowing how to AC doesn't make it legit. The devs blessing it and deciding it was good for the game made it legit.

Further, Zos listens to the player base. That is clear based on changes made in previous PTS based on feedback. The devs cannot change the game for every feedback and have to choose what will work well and what does not.

With that, threads on this subject show s clear message that AC is liked and/or accepted but more than those against it.

AC is a great direction for online gaming. A step from the clunky combat of yesterday's games towards more fluid styles.

Shunravi

ynimma wrote: »

So if one knows how to do it properly that makes the whole AC legit and everyone else is a "noob" of some sort - ok, I get it.

I'm just wondering how can anyone expect the games industry to develop further and show more respect towards the requests of the playerbase if this is the quality the same playerbase shows when a repeated problem is being put on the table again?
Molag Bal would surely be proud...

Just because a small vocal part of the player base doesnt like something does not make it a problem. Nor does constantly bringing it up mean that it should be changed. The players didnt make it legit, the devs did. They listen to feedback, and not everything can be changed or implemented. They designed and redesigned several systems such as ultimate gain to take adavantage of animation canceling. It used to be based of crits. They looked at their combat system and thought 'what can we do to remove the extremely high ultimate gain from crits people were complaining about, and move it to another system so it is still possible to gain ult in a rotation.' They looked and saw you could put light attacks between skill uses and then decided to tie ultimate gain to that.

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Gargis

Competitive pvp games require global cool downs because its the animations in game that provide clues to what your opponent is doing. With animation cancelling, you will have no idea. Therefore, there will be no counter-play.

This is why ESO's pvp will never be balanced. This games pvp amounts to frenetic burst damage, which is poorly countered by healing. The deficits are poorly masked by passive defensive skills and damage attenuation.

IMO;

ESO pvp gets an F grade.

PVE gets a B grade

Rohamad_Ali

altemriel wrote: »

just check out Wrobel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThZtwhYkKSs

Wrobel ...

ynimma

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

Danksta

ynimma wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

Impossible, even with macros or flawless animation canceling.

Alpheu5

ynimma wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

Casting 5 skills in 1.5 seconds is called macroing.

ynimma

You guys show great skills in how to miss the point.
But let me help you and bold the important one from my quote: Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

I know how to cancel animation. I just don't use it because it's seriously immersion breaking and takes a lot away from the game.
But I logged in now and had a few shots and slashes on a bunch of werewolves and have to say my impression has not changed. It's working of course but causes a lot of lag with the time backlog it creates and makes only 2 moves to reduce the mob's red line to zero. And even with that it stands there for another 1.5 seconds (this time is now for real!) before falling.
So I still don't see the beauty of ACing. Help me.

Rohamad_Ali

ynimma wrote: »

You guys show great skills in how to miss the point.
But let me help you and bold the important one from my quote: Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

I know how to cancel animation. I just don't use it because it's seriously immersion breaking and takes a lot away from the game.
But I logged in now and had a few shots and slashes on a bunch of werewolves and have to say my impression has not changed. It's working of course but causes a lot of lag with the time backlog it creates and makes only 2 moves to reduce the mob's red line to zero. And even with that it stands there for another 1.5 seconds (this time is now for real!) before falling.
So I still don't see the beauty of ACing. Help me.

A different thread with a poll showed the majority of people on the forums did not enjoy animation canceling . The vocal minority would be those Wrobel caters too . If we could get polls in game we would get a better value of player opinion . Since I can animation cancel faster then most people I have lost interest in the debate . I believe it is a bug ZoS could not fix so they made it a lazy feature . When combined with other issues in game like bugged weapon enchants it can cause exploits like it has in the past . Melee proc suits procing off bows is one past example . I would fine if they fixed it . Skill comes from rotation knowledge .

Kodrac

Lylith wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

lol Mag, dont bother with logic with these types. They will do extreme mental gymnastics to justify their inability to perform.

because rheumatoid arthritis could never be a factor, yes?

14 yr olds don't understand such things.

Magdalina

Crafts_Many_Boxes wrote: »

Hey all, just joined the forums but I've been playing actively for a few weeks now. I'm not even 50 yet (taking my time with it, enjoying the story / crafting / completing each zone fully / etc), but I do browse these forums a lot at work.

From the perspective of a newcomer, animation cancelling seems scary and kinda messed up. Having to actually swap action bars on the fly in combat already seems annoying, but reading that I actually have to clip animations and mash keys like a maniac while weaving light attacks in between skills to be successful at high end endgame makes me want to vomit. I doubt I'll ever get "good" enough to compete at that "level", despite being in a top tier raiding guild in my previous game.

Honestly if I were you I wouldn't bother dreading it much, just play the way you like and see how it goes. You don't need animation cancelling to complete open world content and I honestly don't get why everyone makes it be such a big thing like it's so unfathomably awful.

From the point of a newcomer to MMOs(that fully implies I had no idea what taunt is and what letters "dps" stand for) I just discovered that alternating Crushing shock with light attacks is really effective at some point and kept on using it. It did make it faster but it didn't actually come to my mind there's a separate word for it and some people actually view it as cheating._. It just seemed...intuitive? Now I know there're more obvious examples of ani cancelling than that weave but really they all mostly come down to the same.

I've actually tried playing WoW before but among other things one that really turned me off was auto attacks/blocks. I mean c'mon, what the heck...I want to actually play my character, not watch system do it(I know there's probably a grand lot to that system I'm missing but honestly I just couldn't bring myself to do the fighting there at all, it simply didn't feel right at the core). ESO combat system felt kind of natural to me from the start. You need to block? You tell your character to perform block. If you're too slow about it, you get hit. You want to hit? You tell your character to hit, if you hit wrong way you won't hit the enemy. Made sense to me. I suppose it might be we simply prefer different game pace and that's fine I'd say give it a try, the game is beautiful, the stories are neat, the people are (mostly) nice. If as you play along and eventually run into more challenging content you realize it's not just your thing then I suppose it'll be time to move on, like I did with WoW(I think I reached level 18 or something lol?)

Shunravi

ynimma wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

For all everyone goes on about being oneshot, I have never not had time to actively counter. Thats even without wearing impenetrable. So go ahead and give it a try.

I'll just use the games systems to actively counter like i always do. Thats why its "more wonderful".

Leogon

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

I weave/animation cancel because it's part of the game now and you're disadvantaging yourself if you don't do it but I agree with you, either they couldn't fix it or they were just too lazy to fix it so they decided to make it part of the game.

QuebraRegra

bulbousb16_ESO wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

It is a bug and a cancer on the game. Nobody "accepts" it - if we all protest enough, we can see it gone.

while I agree with yer feelings, I'm afraid not...

The DEVs did say it was a bug, and a major problem, and it required a fix. They tried several times, and failed. In their defense many games have this issue, and few ever corrected the problem.

They had a management meeting, realized they were not up to the task of addressing the animation canceling problem and embraced a certain user base who felt it was beneficial.

It's not a bug, it's a "feature". Spin to win.

QuebraRegra

Shunravi wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

It's not that confusing at all. Don't you see? When someone uses animation cancelling gives them an unfair advantage over others in form of DPS numbers. Those who uses animation cancelling can boost their DPS up far more then someone who doesn't use it. This is unfair IMO. combat animation is there for a reason... to provide realism.

Tell me something. Do you think the top players in this game would have 40k or 50k DPS without using any kind of animation cancelling whatsoever? What if ZOS actually took action and decided to finally fix the animation cancelling bug? You would see that the top players would no longer have the kind of DPS numbers that they love to brag about on Youtube.

Again, where is the unfair advantage? Everyone can do it. You can do it before you even get gear or food, or even enough skills for a rotation. It is freely available to everyone.

As a practitioner of martial arts and a fan of real non-hollywood combat, it is appaling how unrealistic, wide open, and clumsy the animations in this game are. For me the realism argument people like to use is ludicrous. At least with animation canceling you can approach something close to real combat.

I get what you mean about clumsy animations, but keep in mind, yer not "crystal fragging" anyone in real life... or are you?

Seriously, the delays introduced by animations were an intended offset to the power balance... this was discussed documented by the devs. We should likley just stop talking about it now, because the current OS team has no chance in Hell of ever "fixing" this "feature" at this point. If people have trouble with it, let em macro like the rest. problem solved?

xblackroxe

ynimma wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

You anti AC people are like the anti vaxxer guys. You got debunked over and over but still spout the same nonsense anyways. There´s no 5 abilities in 1.5 seconds not with macro not with skill not with anything. Its just doesn´t happen.
And if you don´t wanna get ganked in pvp maybe have more than 20k health and put at least a bare minium effort into survival or maybe dont let your riding stamina drain. If you die from a gank thats on you and only you nobody else.

Shunravi

QuebraRegra wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

raidentenshu_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is cheating and the developers encourages this practice because their unable to fix the bug.

That also confuses me. Isn't cheating by definition something that gives someone an unfair advantage that others don't possess? But how does ani canceling give anyone an unfair advantage when it's there for anyone/everyone to use?

It's not that confusing at all. Don't you see? When someone uses animation cancelling gives them an unfair advantage over others in form of DPS numbers. Those who uses animation cancelling can boost their DPS up far more then someone who doesn't use it. This is unfair IMO. combat animation is there for a reason... to provide realism.

Tell me something. Do you think the top players in this game would have 40k or 50k DPS without using any kind of animation cancelling whatsoever? What if ZOS actually took action and decided to finally fix the animation cancelling bug? You would see that the top players would no longer have the kind of DPS numbers that they love to brag about on Youtube.

Again, where is the unfair advantage? Everyone can do it. You can do it before you even get gear or food, or even enough skills for a rotation. It is freely available to everyone.

As a practitioner of martial arts and a fan of real non-hollywood combat, it is appaling how unrealistic, wide open, and clumsy the animations in this game are. For me the realism argument people like to use is ludicrous. At least with animation canceling you can approach something close to real combat.

I get what you mean about clumsy animations, but keep in mind, yer not "crystal fragging" anyone in real life... or are you?

Seriously, the delays introduced by animations were an intended offset to the power balance... this was discussed documented by the devs. We should likley just stop talking about it now, because the current OS team has no chance in Hell of ever "fixing" this "feature" at this point. If people have trouble with it, let em macro like the rest. problem solved?

I wish i had frags... but still, i like to see such arguments in terms of 'if this universe had magic', assumed equivalency or whatever....

They probably couldnt change it even if they wanted to, no....

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Darkstorne wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Darkstorne wrote: »

Didaco wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Rainwhisper wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

It was an unintended effect, but eventually accepted feature of the game

I suppose I may be the only player on the server who dislikes it because it breaks immersion?

I might well be missing something becaue it's my first MMO and maybe I'm just taking a lot of things differently than someone with prior MMO experience, but isn't it quite the contrary? A skilled swordsman would make his sword weave into next attack right from the previous one, not patiently wait for his sword to return back to its original posture, no? Seems to make sense for a mage to interweave his spells for biggest effect too if his goal is fast paced combat.

I can't quite imagine what ESO combat should be like without it...does it mean we'd have to always wait for any skill we start to fully play its (rather slow in many cases) animation? "Press a key - waaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiitttttt - press a key - waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiitttttttt- ..." ...maybe it'd look prettier but it just seems so...boring to me
Also what happens if an enemy does a heavy attack while we're in the middle of the animation in that scenario? Do we just die because we're unable to cancel it and block/dodge instead?
That's not trying to be condescending, it's genuinely something ever so puzzling to me every time I see topics like this, I feel like I'm missing something

It's called risk/reward factor.
You don't play Ninja Gaiden Black and say "I was in the middle of my combo and I got hit because I couldn't block!".
The same logic applies to every other game that claims to have an action based combat system.
99% of them has animation canceling but it works in a completely different way, and you can always tell that they're better than Eso's because they're actually INTENDED.

In those games you can cancel the RECOVERY frames (animation frames that play after the effect of the hit are registered) to be faster, if the system allows you to use it with that particular move at all, beause it's up to the devs to decide which recovery frame you can cancel or not.

In Eso you can cancel the wind up frames (animation frame playing before the hit is registered) and still accomplish to fire off the skill, with all its effects.
Any player coming from action games would say this is straight up blasphemy.

I'm not even talking about block casting.

And to be honest, this is the reason why I giggle every time I read that it takes skill to be able to AC in this game... In other action games, yes, it does.
In Eso just not. It's actually the opposite.

"Hey the boss is about to perform an heavy attack... Who cares, I can block or dodgle whenever I want".

Exactly. I'd be fine with animation cancelling if it actually cancelled the skill/attack as well. If I'm winding up a weapon swing for a skill attack then suddenly decide to block an incoming attack instead of delivering my own, that's fine. But it's clearly broken when blocking that attack also magically ends up with the enemy taking damage from the skill I just cancelled and clearly didn't execute.

What's more, this is not intended by game design. The game doesn't explain in a tutorial "you can insta-light attack by cancelling into a skill, then block-cancel all your skills so they fire much faster, dealing much more damage overall, without your character visually executing them!" And why would it? How dumb does that system sound? So instead it's something the core playerbase exploits and the majority of casual players who don't visit the forums never even hear about, let alone make the most of. It's bad for balance, and it makes the combat system look like a glitched out mess. I'd rather they fixed the animation cancelling to make sure skills and light attacks don't deal damage if you cancel them, and then balance skill and attack damage out to compensate for that loss of DPS if required. That requires work and man hours spent fixing a core game issue though, like the jump bug or memory leak that have persisted for years now, so clearly it's never going to happen. ZOS either can't, or won't, put that effort in on the game's underlying systems.

We'll it's not an exploit since the developers have endorsed it as a feature side-effect of the games combat system.

Clearly ZOS have only "endorsed" it because they either can't be bothered to fix it or don't know how.

You present a false dichotomy that is missing a glaring third option. It was unintended, but the developers realized that it added a unique layer to the combat system that they actually liked. Just because it is unintended does not mean it's bad. Heck penicillin was discovered by accident.

End of the day, devs have endorsed it and it's not going anywhere. You can either learn to play are continue to complain. (That is an example of a true dichotomy).

QuebraRegra

xblackroxe wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

I also find animation cancelling quite harmful for the overall game environment.
All reasons has been told and I can only repeat them but really skill animation and the time they take is there for a reason. Reducing the casting and skill times with exploiting a bug may result in a higher "performance" but the price everyone pays is dear: the game balance is seriously off, PVP suffers even more on top of the server lags, some classes and other skill lines become "non-beneficial" and therefore abandoned by more and more players, it lights the highway and strenghtens abusive behaviour (no matter if ZOS in lack of other options "agreed" to this, it's still an abuse as it's not intended and can create an unfair advantage over others and the environment).

I'm sure there are good reasons why it's "great" and exciting to take advantage on a bug and in lack of other options we all need to adapt but I'd really be happy if ZOS could eliminate this phenomenon and the game on one more area could work as intended.

You lost any credibility when you called something thats not a bug a bug.

AC isn't the problem its just an easy outlet for bad players to blame them being bad on. Nothing more. Without AC 95% of the ppl you find in cyrodil would still be crushed with little to no effort by players that know how to play.

The the devs have "lost credibility"? Seriously, they documented it as a BUG originally. Yer point is not valid.

Rohamad_Ali

xblackroxe wrote: »

ynimma wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

The current development of action mmos is to embrace animation canceling and to build systems around the flow of combat you can achieve with it. ESO is not the only one.

Right. I'll love to gank you in Cyrodiil with 5 attacks carried out in 1.5 seconds. Don't bother thinking about what happened, you can see it on the death recap anyway.
Because all for the wonderful flow of combat after you have ridden a lot just to get this.
And maybe it's not you I'll gank but someone. Someone who actually BELIEVES that the information being given on a skill is valid while it's just not.
Now if you could please tell me and that so called "vocal minority" how this can make my or the other's game more wonderful...

You anti AC people are like the anti vaxxer guys. You got debunked over and over but still spout the same nonsense anyways. There´s no 5 abilities in 1.5 seconds not with macro not with skill not with anything. Its just doesn´t happen.
And if you don´t wanna get ganked in pvp maybe have more than 20k health and put at least a bare minium effort into survival or maybe dont let your riding stamina drain. If you die from a gank thats on you and only you nobody else.

For everyone's viewing pleasure .

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ekmGtWaj5CU&ebc=ANyPxKppHfnbxKf-mwNokuP-icfIxdgnbQapaUkM2W1fMJ3Cog6JPf_1LTDW0W7-WAq3KVEZbq7R