Why everyone hates Mazzatun?

Saint_Bud · March 2017

Rng in bossmechanikes. Its not hard, not much dps needed sadly, but this random *** makes no fun.

code65536 · March 2017

Joshua261 wrote: »

When my group tried veteran Mazzatun, we had a couple of attempts to get through Chudan and Xal Nur but we were at the very last boss for about 3-4 hours and we just couldn't get though it because of 2 things.... 1. The randomness of the Hist statues and 2. The draining totem now that is a pain in the neck to deal with and it is just the fact that it can turn up anywhere, the second you start hitting your resources just drop... Our group eventually just gave up after 4 hours ish of attempts.

I used to hate the hard-mode final boss fights of both of the SotH dungeons. But with the high market value of the new motifs, I've farmed vCoS HM and vRoM HM almost 60 times since Homestead's launch, and the vRoM boss fight isn't that bad (easier of the two), if you have the right strategy.

Everyone must stay in melee range of the boss. Even if you're the healer. Even if you're a ranged DPS. The totem picks the person farthest away from the boss and then spawns a random distance from that person. If everyone stays close, the totem will spawn close.
Careful coordination and planning of ultimate use is essential.
- The two DPS should run AoE ultimates. In order of preference: standard, destro ult, meteor, Nova, or dawnbreaker.
- The healer should run destro ult (or Nova if they can't run destro ult).
- When a totem spawns, one DPS will drop their ult on the totem (and try to catch the boss and as many adds as possible in the ult's AoE).
- When the adds spawn, one DPS will drop their ult on the adds to nuke them down quickly.
- The healer holds their ult in reserve, for use in case the DPS who is supposed to ult the next objective is hallucinating.
- A common mistake is that people all blow their ults at the same time on one objective, and then when the next priority objective comes up, nobody has an ult available.
When someone is hallucinating, bring the boss to the vicinity of the statue, so that the hallucinator is able to stay close to the group. You want to do this for two reasons: First, it's easier to keep the hallucinator healed if they are not separated, and second, you want to avoid totems spawning far away from the group.
When adds spawn...
- The tank's first priority is to get taunt control on the two most dangerous adds: the mason and shaper.
- Their second priority is to chain or otherwise bring the mason and shaper close to the boss.
- And their third priority is to bring in the other adds.
- As soon as enough adds are close to the boss, the DPS responsible for ulting the add pack should drop their ult.
If the healer is hallucinating, some backup off-heals will be necessary. Vigor from the tank or stamina DPS and Funnel/Sap from a magblade all work well. A mag DPS could also back-bar a resto, but it's a bit too much of a DPS loss and generally not necessary. DPS should are also responsible for their own survival: Harness Magicka (or Conjured Ward) is essential for magicka DPS, and stamina DPS will need Vigor.
If you're hallucinating, move around as you're destroying the statue, so that you don't get hit by the statue's rain.
When the amber shades are up, that is a moment for the group to catch their breath. Don't waste resources trying to kill the Chudan and Xal-Nur shades quickly. Instead, use this lull in the battle to clean up any adds that are up and then rebuild resources (via heavy attacks) and ultimate.

akl77 · March 2017

The last boss requires coordination, if no mic then it's a guaranteed fail for vet mode.

Feedinginsanity · March 2017

@De_Mysteriis I think that the main reason that people despise this content is because the majority of players in this game rely very heavily on pick up groups. Sometimes when I begin to think about how everything that I do with pugs in this game really makes me want to quit and never play ever again. Look at VMol carries for example. I'm in a guild that basically just sells it to people and they charge 2.5m per person and take 3 people at once. They make a lot of gold, and it only takes these players 33 minutes to run it at the most.

I think that we are getting sick and tired of relying on pick up groups to do things. If everyone had their own group that knows what they're doing, then I think this content would be played more frequently. Do you not understand how difficult it would be to pull this off with pick up groups?

Sotha_Sil · March 2017

Long dungeons can be fun when the reward is worth it and the mechanics are fun to do. However in Mazzatun, you keep taking doors and doors and doors... which just make the experience frustrating and boring (like in WGT) + the ESO loot system we all know. + The stories in these dungeons.....my god so boring.

O_LYKOS · March 2017

It's a horrible dungeon overall imo

Even normal can be a pain if you go through dungeon finder and get low levels with little experience. Not to blame then, but it's rare these days for people in pug groups to be on mic to take advice.

Vet I will only do if I'm with a solid group who know what they are doing. If I get any of the DLC ones in the random vet group finder I will leave unless it has experienced people on mics.

Minalan · March 2017

O_LYKOS wrote: »

It's a horrible dungeon overall imo

Even normal can be a pain if you go through dungeon finder and get low levels with little experience. Not to blame then, but it's rare these days for people in pug groups to be on mic to take advice.

Vet I will only do if I'm with a solid group who know what they are doing. If I get any of the DLC ones in the random vet group finder I will leave unless it has experienced people on mics.

Got to agree with this sentiment.

After 150+ normal mode farm runs on the first two bosses to get a full set of amberplasm (impen small, divines/infused large), I never ever want to see this dungeon again as long as I live.

*** the RNG in this game.

Akira-DarkShadows · March 2017

De_Mysteriis wrote: »

Seriously. It's kinda discouraging when people are leaving at once saying "Ah, Mazzatun again!" or even in the middle of the run without a word. Personally I like it for great mechanics, I don't mind explaining it to new players, I don't mind low-level players. I don't farm it for gear, just got there recently several times doing daily pledges and forced to abandon it due to players leaving and impossibility of finding replacements.

try Cradle of shadows cuz no one wants that dungeon either if people leave then block them cuz ppl who leave in the middle of the dungeon are worst then scum. lol

greylox · March 2017

Just joined a proper guild, casual with low cp players and we've just been in vet Mazzatun for the last 4 hours with me, a 106cp healer and a 170 tank and 200 and something dd.

It was great learning it with a proper group. We didn't have voice chat but got all the way to the last boss and were halfway from doing that. The other bosses are easy now, just after that session of slogging it out and following the mechanics to a tee we figured out a system for each and it worked great in the end. The last boss was very hard and the totems were the problem but we can see how we can do it so will stick with it and will be able to run it properly soon smoothly.

It felt great and I think the difficulty is fine as it feels like you're achieving something, but I still think pugs using group finder (as I said earlier in the thread) will find it nigh on impossible on vet.

Horowonnoe · March 2017

Mazzatun can be very fun with a proper group. While my personal favorite is vCoS, Mazzatun also has its cool parts. And the story and design of the dungeon is so beautiful.

On normal, this dungeon should be possible to complete with any pickup group. I have carried a full group of lvl 15's through the normal version of Mazzatun with it being their first dungeon ever and all of them being new players. If that is possible, then a group consisting of anyone over lvl15 should be able to clear it.

FlyLionel · March 2017

De_Mysteriis wrote: »

Seriously. It's kinda discouraging when people are leaving at once saying "Ah, Mazzatun again!" or even in the middle of the run without a word. Personally I like it for great mechanics, I don't mind explaining it to new players, I don't mind low-level players. I don't farm it for gear, just got there recently several times doing daily pledges and forced to abandon it due to players leaving and impossibility of finding replacements.

It's the roughest dungeon by farm in my eyes, getting the skins was great and all but truly if it becomes the daily you cannot do it with randoms. My only gripe is the last boss, even some decent players I know have trouble there. I've only ever tanked it and healed (mainly tank) and without above average dps and people knowing what they're doing, it will be tough.

Trihugger · March 2017

code65536 wrote: »

Joshua261 wrote: »

When my group tried veteran Mazzatun, we had a couple of attempts to get through Chudan and Xal Nur but we were at the very last boss for about 3-4 hours and we just couldn't get though it because of 2 things.... 1. The randomness of the Hist statues and 2. The draining totem now that is a pain in the neck to deal with and it is just the fact that it can turn up anywhere, the second you start hitting your resources just drop... Our group eventually just gave up after 4 hours ish of attempts.

I used to hate the hard-mode final boss fights of both of the SotH dungeons. But with the high market value of the new motifs, I've farmed vCoS HM and vRoM HM almost 60 times since Homestead's launch, and the vRoM boss fight isn't that bad (easier of the two), if you have the right strategy.
Everyone must stay in melee range of the boss. Even if you're the healer. Even if you're a ranged DPS. The totem picks the person farthest away from the boss and then spawns a random distance from that person. If everyone stays close, the totem will spawn close.

Careful coordination and planning of ultimate use is essential.
The two DPS should run AoE ultimates. In order of preference: standard, destro ult, meteor, Nova, or dawnbreaker.

The healer should run destro ult (or Nova if they can't run destro ult).

When a totem spawns, one DPS will drop their ult on the totem (and try to catch the boss and as many adds as possible in the ult's AoE).

When the adds spawn, one DPS will drop their ult on the adds to nuke them down quickly.

The healer holds their ult in reserve, for use in case the DPS who is supposed to ult the next objective is hallucinating.

A common mistake is that people all blow their ults at the same time on one objective, and then when the next priority objective comes up, nobody has an ult available.

When someone is hallucinating, bring the boss to the vicinity of the statue, so that the hallucinator is able to stay close to the group. You want to do this for two reasons: First, it's easier to keep the hallucinator healed if they are not separated, and second, you want to avoid totems spawning far away from the group.

When adds spawn...
The tank's first priority is to get taunt control on the two most dangerous adds: the mason and shaper.

Their second priority is to chain or otherwise bring the mason and shaper close to the boss.

And their third priority is to bring in the other adds.

As soon as enough adds are close to the boss, the DPS responsible for ulting the add pack should drop their ult.

If the healer is hallucinating, some backup off-heals will be necessary. Vigor from the tank or stamina DPS and Funnel/Sap from a magblade all work well. A mag DPS could also back-bar a resto, but it's a bit too much of a DPS loss and generally not necessary. DPS should are also responsible for their own survival: Harness Magicka (or Conjured Ward) is essential for magicka DPS, and stamina DPS will need Vigor.

If you're hallucinating, move around as you're destroying the statue, so that you don't get hit by the statue's rain.

When the amber shades are up, that is a moment for the group to catch their breath. Don't waste resources trying to kill the Chudan and Xal-Nur shades quickly. Instead, use this lull in the battle to clean up any adds that are up and then rebuild resources (via heavy attacks) and ultimate.

This is a great synopsis, but at the same time also the perfect case and point of why this dungeon is a turd burglar. Almost everything you mentioned is what you'd expect of someone running veteran trials. I won't lie to you, in that list I see nothing that I'd expect a PUG to be able to pull off. Nothing. That goes a long way in saying just how dumb this dungeon is and the lack of foresight in the fact that it's possible to random it.

shack80 · March 2017

I hate it because everytime someone quits and once again we need to wait for a new player to join and run to the boss we are waiting at. I've done it several times with solid group but with randoms it's that same crap everytime. I dont want to spend my night standing in one dungeons... waiting. That's why I dont usually run it with randoms. But if u want todo daily random dungeons you really cannot choose the dungeon and you can only figure it out when teleported to the dungeon.

Reverb · March 2017

I like it, but....I don't trust that pugs will know the mechanics. Especially low cp ones. That may be judgemental or exclusionary, but I don't care. Without knowing the mechanics that dungeon is a nightmare, and you can easily spend your entire play session there. If I'm not in the mood to teach it, I'll drop group as soon as it comes up as a random. Same with vcos and vicp.

Magdalina · March 2017

Trihugger wrote: »

This is a great synopsis, but at the same time also the perfect case and point of why this dungeon is a turd burglar. Almost everything you mentioned is what you'd expect of someone running veteran trials. I won't lie to you, in that list I see nothing that I'd expect a PUG to be able to pull off. Nothing. That goes a long way in saying just how dumb this dungeon is and the lack of foresight in the fact that it's possible to random it.

Tbh at this point I generally don't expect anything from a pug, not even taunts from tank nor heals from healer(not to mention at least 7k+ dps and not standing in red, and not even thinking about such things as interrupts and whatnot). And I actually (used to) like pugging, it can be very fun to teach new people stuff or meet experienced nice people that way, but 8/10...okay, maybe 7/10 times lately... it seems to be tanks who don't know how to taunt and/or avoid getting oneshot, healers who don't heal and dps with like 3k dps who will try to bite your head off if you dare suggest they should change/improve something. Those teams struggle in Wayrest I, nevermind dlc dungeons. And that shows a long way to show how badly we need some sort of a learning curve in this game.

That aside, there's nothing wrong with a piece of content being hard to complete for an unprepared and/or uncoordinated group. But I do agree it probably shouldn't be in the "random" list. Or it should be optional if it's there or something.

Mike0987 · March 2017

I'm just discouraged that I paid for the DLC and can't find ONE group to go on a Saturday evening. Never buying another DLC with group dungeons as its main questing again.

Trihugger · March 2017

Magdalina wrote: »

Trihugger wrote: »

This is a great synopsis, but at the same time also the perfect case and point of why this dungeon is a turd burglar. Almost everything you mentioned is what you'd expect of someone running veteran trials. I won't lie to you, in that list I see nothing that I'd expect a PUG to be able to pull off. Nothing. That goes a long way in saying just how dumb this dungeon is and the lack of foresight in the fact that it's possible to random it.

Tbh at this point I generally don't expect anything from a pug, not even taunts from tank nor heals from healer(not to mention at least 7k+ dps and not standing in red, and not even thinking about such things as interrupts and whatnot). And I actually (used to) like pugging, it can be very fun to teach new people stuff or meet experienced nice people that way, but 8/10...okay, maybe 7/10 times lately... it seems to be tanks who don't know how to taunt and/or avoid getting oneshot, healers who don't heal and dps with like 3k dps who will try to bite your head off if you dare suggest they should change/improve something. Those teams struggle in Wayrest I, nevermind dlc dungeons. And that shows a long way to show how badly we need some sort of a learning curve in this game.

That aside, there's nothing wrong with a piece of content being hard to complete for an unprepared and/or uncoordinated group. But I do agree it probably shouldn't be in the "random" list. Or it should be optional if it's there or something.

Sad to say that everything you mentioned is devoid of any exaggeration or embellishment of the truth. But Heaven forbid you mention any of this otherwise you're an elitist at best and a blight that needs to leave the ESO for the better of the community otherwise lol.

Integral1900 · March 2017

If this is anything like the two mmo games I worked on then vast majority of dungeon runs are pugs, and I'm talking like ninety five percent plus. Almost certainly most players don't use teamspeak either and the vet version of this dungeon was clearly built with team speak in mind. No one in their right mind would pug ruins of mazzatum on vet. It's about as much fun as mashing my hand in a revolving door.

On normal it is a laugh, run in, enjoy the story, agro all the mobs into massive packs etc. I know most players avoid doing this but I don't know why as they dump armloads of basic loot. I'm not after the top end loot per say, other than saving a bit on the style books, I just don't see the point of doing the vet in order to get the monster helm set which for some moronic reason now only drops in vet. It's easier to just do normal, have a giggle, not worry about getting the very top end gear and move on, if I want to be challenged to my limits I can do that at work, I don't want that level of challenge following me home like a bad smell