Warlord and Magician CP being removed in Morrowind

paulsimonps · March 2017

Tasear wrote: »

@Alcast I saw you site it was quite boring, and that what game will be like. Where does it say there should be only templar healer but thats all your cookie cutter is suggesting. How about something creative or uquie build to be a super thief or to farm really well.

The game implied that I could do any role with any class admit a bit harder or differently but these suggestions are abomination. How am I suppose to complete my role as sorrecer healer.

Reroll as templar after 2700 hours, no. I played this way fine. Reported the bugs, supplied majority of the current builds. I done alot of work or effort into this. More than I endure humiliation and degradating comments on my class choice. Why because game implied I could.

Surely, these changes are reality. But do consider balance @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom . You have the community 3 roles and soon to be 5 classes. Assuming warden has already been taken care of there a total of 12 possibility while sub dividing races in Magicka and stamina meaning 24. In regards to races, I wish you to simply consider the consequences of this change. Stamina races on Magicka races will be suffering alot. As a reason to care is elitest.

Everyone knows the game has sufferedfeom it since one tamerial but this will make even more apparent. This takes away from the appeal of the game. Most of us play for the freedom of choice. That's why we said it was like no other game we ever seen.

I worry now is it worth putting anymore time. If come June I won't be even invited as support. Now because of skill but simply design. I suggest a few things, first insurance we will still be able to play. Make the subpar traits group buffs or add it to housing, where housing limits are daily buff limit for people with division in beds, books , treasure and such. This would not be pay to win but it would promote the crown store. Add spell crafting early or let us know it's coming soon. Lastly revisit some skills and group utility.

P.S the sorcerer healer aka needs some balance to warden. Same skills but inferior has disappointed. Sure I want to play warden, but I don't want to play if I was forced to.

Speaking to the wind, but maybe give extra buffs to sorcerer healer for other pet users. The simy suggestion is give every class speciality that is essential. This would mean every healer would bring something different for the team and people would actually have work with each others strength and weakness.

In summary @ZOS_GinaBruno, I have bothered you too much, but please don't let the middle class players disappear.

~all I want to do is to be given a chance to support people to the best of my ability even if I am sorrecer.

First of, wow that was hard to read. Second, what you are asking for is basically a large overhaul of the class skills in terms of group healing. See its not the healing its self that makes the Templar the priority choice for Trials and Harder Veteran Dungeons, its their utility. They have Spear Shards, Radiant Aura or Repentance and Nova, as well as easy access to Major Mending and have great sustain on their own part with minor intellect. They also have Power of the Light, which even some healers use even thou its a stamina ability, to helps support the group. Their Cleansing Ritual ability is also a source of a synergy which for end game trials with tanks running Alkosh is a huge deal.

So what would a sorcerer or any other class for that matter need to compete with that? Cause HPS means very little when it comes to choosing healer. They would need some form of unique way of giving sustain and utility to the group. But at the moment all they have is some OK Crowd control abilities and some decent Class heals with the Twilight, they also don't have access to Major Mending without using Resto Heavy attacks, which gives low up time unless used every 3s.

But its not just the Sorcerers that has this problem but DK's and NB's too, that is why Templars reign supreme in End Game healing. People are playing it and enforcing it cause its what currently works best, and it shows whenever you don't have one in your group. Sure you can keep everyone alive with your healing but the extra support Templars give in sustain will be lost and the DPS will suffer for it and can in certain situations also cause deaths.

So either way you are asking for quite a big thing here in wanting all classes to be equal in the healing department. But no matter what, there will always be one class that is better than the other in doing a certain task. There will always be one class set up that does high DPS, there will always be one healer that gives better support and there will always be a class that has better tanks sustain and support. The only thing a change like that might offer is a swap from one class to another. Yes getting more options out there is great, but for end game people will always theory craft and choose the thing is that the best by proven standard. Now I do want more balance too but just saying don't be hating too much on people that show others how the effective and trial proven ways are done just cause you want to play your unique way.

Kay1 · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Good! Sustain is a joke despite people on here seemingly thinking that some sort of change needs to be made to offset these resource nerfs. This will actually make heavy armor operate more how it should while also indirectly buffing light and medium armor. What makes heavy over the top is the cost reduction in cp. Now they will have to properly manage resources and run sustain sets over damage to compensate.

You see people like you are an issue, heavy armor doesn't need a nerf, medium and light needs a buff, light with more damage and medium with more penetration and that's it, if you want them to nerf something ask them for Eye of Flame.

paulsimonps · March 2017

Lylith wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Uriel_Nocturne I do agree, that it is not good taking away power from players. Same issue happened when the CP system was introduced. people lost power (they just didnt realize yet they were gonna be stronger afterwards) and QQ was raining down in the forums.
I speak from experience, I was really good at QQing on the forums in my first year

1.ANY Player does not like to loose power. No matter what game they play.
2. Forum does not represent the playerbase at all. When do you go to forums? You go there when you have to complain about something. If you are happy why would you bother? (Sure there is a small percentage that actually wants to talk about mechanics etc).
3. The Players that aactually care about changes are a small minority, the game is full of casuals which most likely will not even feel the difference.

However, I do think IF CHANGES SHOULD HAPPEN, then now is the right time. BEFORE Morrowind releases. Because there will be a lot of new players. Morrowind will make or break this game. So I really hope ZOS fixes the biggest issues....

And again, I am all for nerfing this monkey Championpoint system. They are going into the right direction. Still needs more nerfing.

WHY for gods sake does extra CP give you more resources?! Remove that *** its way too OP. @ZOS_RichLambert

I am all for that people actually have to turn on the switch in their brains again and L2P once more in this game.

[Edit for profanity]

@Alcast A couple of things:

1) I fully read your post, and while I see where you are coming from, I completely disagree with you on how the CP system is "supposed to work".

2) For all of your thoughts, this change (removing the sustain node and cost reduction node) will actually hit lower CP players just as hard as it does the top 1% of players (end-game-level Players). The sustain and cost reduction nodes scale by percentiles (as I know you are aware), so any removal/change like this will hit even the Silent Casual just as hard as it does say... the Streamers and "Elites" who run nothing but end-game level content (Trials, VMA, VDSA).

3) These changes, if made without reducing the base cost of Magicka abilities by 15-16%, while reducing the resource regeneration, will destroy most every Magicka build in the game.

4) Because of #3, most of those Silent Casual players will suddenly have their (most likely) one and only character no longer viable. They're cost of abilities will go up significantly, especially when Spam Skills are taken into consideration. Their Magicka pools will run out faster, and will return to them slower. They're going to find themselves in content that they could make it through before the patch, but now cannot complete after the patch for the simple fact that they're running out of resources too fast and it takes longer for them to return.

These players aren't going to "L2P" or flip any switch in their brains. They don't cruise through Streams or Build Guides like you provide. Hell, they probably don't even know about 75% of the crafting stations and Sets in the game, and they definitely don't know about how the Monster Drop Sets work or would want to grind out the countless hours to get any of it like you or I would, even though those Sets may/may not mitigate the effects of the change.

If this change goes through, the vast majority of the player base will suddenly find that their one and only character simply cannot complete challenges one day, that they could the previous day.

But you are right about one thing: the Silent Casual won't care. They won't follow your suggestions, indeed they will most likely never visit your Streams for you to peddle an elitist viewpoint on how the game "should be played".

They'll see that their character no longer works. There won't be a readily-available, quick fix to restore their character's potency, and they'll simply quit and go play something else.

Because like most every other Streamer and Forum user, you're taking a position that the fixes to cope with this are "obvious", and for the level of content that you run, getting the correct set of gear that coordinates well with pieces from other Sets, are easy to regain/acquire.

But the level of content that you and I run every day, the level of content that you and I find to be easy, that content is (and will most likely always be) far out of reach of the vast majority of players. They simply will never have access to the fixes that you're suggesting and promoting.

And that's where your entire argument breaks down. Your suggestions are a fine workaround for the <5% that run end-game content, and for that top 5% of the playing populace, your suggestions might/might not work. But for the rest of the player base, the Silent Casual, this will be an insurmountable change. It will be insurmountable for them, the game will become magnitudes more difficult, and they'll leave.

Because while you or I have countless hours to grind away at this game, and some of the players have found a way to make this game (and other games) their careers; the vast, vast majority of players just use this game as an escape and come here to have fun. Not to have epic-frustration-levels of difficulty. The game will no longer make their characters effective to cruise through PvE content, and those players will leave.

So while your suggestions and those proto-change to the CP constellations might be workable for the 5% of players at end-game, it will only serve to drive away armies worth of Casual Players. It will not spark that desire for them to grind away and "L2P", it will spark a desire for them to go and play a game where their characters still feel remotely powerful.

And that will only be horrifically damaging to this MMO.

I read your whole post.

I'm sorry but if a player who jumps into a new game does not know how the game works or just refuses to learn the mechanics and the things they need to get better, then that is on them. The casual content is easy enough that even for casuals with ridiculous builds can spam snipe to get through haha.

Your position rests upon the assumption that casuals don't know how to get better at a game and will.simply leave instead of getting better. I don't believe that is a correct assumptions for most casuals. Most casuals are willing to learn and get better and actually want to, they just need people to teach theme.

This was my first mmo ever. I am a Tes fan and why I got into this. The first year of this game I didn't know about weaving/animation canceling. I mained bow in dungeons as a stam.nb. as you will recall a stam player and a nb for much of first year was trash. I didn't even know about food or drink. Yet I was still able.to do all most content in the game. Then one day a friend in gAmerica taught me all of these things. I learned at got way way better to where I am very very good now. I now pass that knowledge along to new players who soak it up like a sponge.

You make the point that casuals don't play the end get stuff that many of us here do. That they simply will not be good enough to access the content we run. So if this is the, then how will this effect them? The stuff they do play is very easy to where I have been with players in dungeons who spam snipe no problem and that is it through whole dungeon. So what this will do for casuals is make those really easy dungeons they do run a bit harder. Not enough to make them quit, enough to make them think more and ask questions because despite your position, people want to get better before they decide to quit.

Then there are casuals that just run overland content and quest. The easiest content in game. This change is not going to make people so bad at overland content that they quit. See my scenario above. You can walk through the overland content with any build and win.

A game is not about being able to just run through it without thinking about how gear, stats, skills, etc. What player gets into a game thinking we'll if I can't just walk through this content without learning how to play the game then I quit????? When did this mentality start??? You can't blame a game for being too hard if your unwilling to learn how to play the game. You have no right to complain about it. I mean just think about that for a second. Hey guys your game is too hard so I quit make it easier. What was too hard? Oh well I can't really tell you because I never learned how to play the game. ????? You want to balance around that type of player???? I don't think so.

@bowmanz607 And I read your whole post, and you missed the mark just by a bit.

You've oversimplified the argument, and become lost in the same mentality that @Alcast has.

It's not that the Silent Casual majority simply doesn't know how to get better at the game, it's that their version of "getting better" is very different from what you or I view as getting better.

As I said in my most recent post; they play the game, they try out different Skills, they try out different equipment from drops and what rafting stations that they find in the wilderness, and they find something that works to get them through the content and allows them to just play the game. Just being allowed to play the game, at a mildly challenging level of difficulty, but that they can move through with only a small bit of effort; that is what the Silent Casual is looking for. I'll say it again; video games in general, and MMORPG's as a whole genre are an escape for them. The Casual majority doesn't wan tsoul-crushing challenge like the end-game player wants.

You, I, and the Streamers (as well as the rest of the Hardcore players) view "getting better" as being able to run through the hardest content in the game. If our DPS/Sustain/Healing/tanking aren't putting out the numbers we need, we grind through to get the BiS gear, and we min/max until we have the toughest builds in the game. That is how we view "getting better".

It's not that the Silent Casual doesn't have a desire to get better, it's that what "getting better" means that is important.

Again, as I replied to for Alcast; removing the resource regen CP node and changing/removing the sustain node for Magicka users will make those Magicka builds for the Silent Casual just as worthless for them, as it does for us at the end-game level. But where that drives us end-gamer's to find a way around it, and it drives us to get the newer/better BiS gear to compensate, the Casual majority Player will simply see that their Magicka character no longer works, they'll see the task of rebuilding and reallocating Skillpoints, and the task of re-grinding or creating new gear, just on the notion that this might bring back a small level of viability to their characters, and they won't want to do it.

The game (again) is an escape for them, and having to go through all of that to make their character even partially work the way it did before the change, will not spark them to start grinding out like the end-game Player does. It will only spark a desire to find a game that hasn't arbitrarily gimped their characters, a game that allows them to just play and not have to worry about grinding out the best gear in the game just to be able to play.

As far as your question about "where" this mentality comes from; it's always been there since MMORPG's first emerged as their own genre.

You have the small, niche minority of players that race to end-game and fight and scrape to stay there, then you have the vast majority of... everyone else that just wants to log-in and run around in a fantasy world for a bit to forget the troubles of their real-life day.

And ever since MMO's emerged as their own genre; those players have ditched MMORPG's en masse once changes were made that arbitrarily increased the games base difficulty above the level of casual-play (like this proto-change to the CP constellations would do). Again; it's not that the Casual doesn't want to get better, it's that "getting better" has two very different meanings for Casual Players and End-game "Elite" Players.

OK so if I understand you correctly you are simply establishing the difference in "getting better" between players?

You speak of the Silent Casual and how they will just quit rather than grind out new gear, specs etc. Here is the thing. For one, you even stated these players don't grind out gear and so forth to begin with. So the whole concept of they would rather quite than grind doesn't add up. They will just do the same thing. Further, These silent casuals are also the players that will stick to some.overland questing. The easiest content in the game. Content where you don't need to worry about gear or skill combo's or weapon combo's etc. At worst this forces players to think just a tad more about light armor and, gear sets, and food/drink. The most minimal of thought might need to go into these players setups. If a player does not want to take minimal effort into the game to play it rather than mindlessly walking through it, then I say good riddance. These are not the players staying around spending money outside of the initial purchase anyway.

Players doing over land content not being willing to make minimal adjustments is crazy. Further, this is an mmo. It will be ever changing just like every mmo. Balance changes, meta shifts etc. So not making a change because some Silent Casual can't run around with no armor and a death staff to complete content is crazy.

Your condescension of the Casual Player, and inability to see past your point of view is really defeating your own argument.

YOU think that overland questing is the easiest aspect of the game. To the vast majority of the players base, whom only ever see the overland questing, that is quite challenging enough. But you can't seem to see that, because you're blinded by your own view of how the game "should be played".

You also cannot see that, those players will have their Magicka characters ruined by this game; but while they might do some light searching/crafting to try to fix the issue, they aren't going to devote the time to grind out Trials or Public Dungeons for the Monster Set drops that WILL rectify the issue. It will be more time consuming than any of them want, because of how casually they play ESO.

For the A-typical Casual Gamer (whom again, make up the vast majority of the games' population by quite a wide margin), the overland Questing IS the challenge that they're looking for, and while they can move through it with relative ease, it still provides enough challenge to give them the sensation that they're doing something.

But if this CP change goes through, then the difficulty of that same overland questing nearly triples due to all of the setbacks discussed here already ad nauseum. The reduced Magicka regen, the higher cost of abilities, lower DPS, having less resources and resource regen but the enemies still having the same damage modifiers/difficulty/resource drain attacks.

This will inordinately increase the difficulty for these Silent Casuals, and while they might try... something to get their lost DPS/Magicka pool/Magicka Regen, they aren't going to devote the time/effort to doing so that you are.

And all of your responses reek of the idea that the Casual Gamer is going to not only know about, but have the ability/time/desire to grind out the BiS gear that would correct the CP change, but can only be found in end-game content.

That's the core problem with your responses. You expect those same Casuals to simply grind it out like you would, when the truth is; when faced with a spike in difficulty caused by ZOS arbitrarily gimping their characters, it will be easier for the Silent Casual to find another High-Fantasy MMORPG and go play that, than it will be for them to figure out why their characters got weaker and the difficulty became much more intense, than to devote the time/money/effort/grinding necessary to find gear/monster drops that will make up for what ZOS takes away.

Your argument of "well, MMO's change all the time, people just need to adapt" is flawed in its very premise. MMORPG's have changed and evolved ever since the genre began. You are very correct in that.

But not every change is good or for the better of the game.

Bad changes, or ill-planned changes that hurt the Player and their Character(s), have chased players away from MMO's for just as long. Fact: Bad Changes like I mentioned have been the biggest killers of games in this genre since its inception. Those changes chase away the Casual Player, and no MMO survives those types of population hits. And no MMO has ever survived for long once the game became fine-tuned specifically for the end-game PvE/PvP player while leaving the Casual Players out in the wind. Not a single one.

So please, while you might be fine with this change, at least try to see past your "end-game-just-grind-out-new-stuff-PvE-is-toddler-level-easy-anyway" mentality. If you could, you would see how bad this change will be for the game as a whole.

Where do you people pull your facts from? Imagination land? I want to see proof of this because not once have I heard a more casual player say this the solo content is challenging enough

yeah, it's challenging enough.

now you've heard it.

ofc there's tougher challenges to be had, should a casual choose to seek them out.

-a more casual player

When the game first launched overland was tough and solo content was not the easiest, I think many of us can remember getting rekt by that harvester in the first Fighters Guild quest. I had legit troubles when I first got up into the higher CP zones. But now with everything scaled to the same level and everything can be killed by simply heavy attacking them... No its not challenging in the least. Group bosses are of course one thing but they are designed to be done in, well, a group and solo content like vMSA is on another level entirely so a pretty good exception.

I know of two 70+ year old's playing the game and they are fairly slow and you got to be patient with them(still good fun to be around thou), but even they breeze through the overland and delves with just spamming one attack. No BiS gear, no rotation, just heavy attacking and spamming Force Pulse and they can clear everything from Delves to World Bosses to Normal Dungeons. And so if people think overworld or solo DLC content like Wrothgar is challenging... well... I'm not quiet sure what to say.

Kay1 · March 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

I love that people in this thread think that no one runs light or medium in pvp anymore *grin*

Even though the best class in pvp is Sorc, running light armor and people just whined so that proc sets got nerfed which *drum roll* were mostly medium armor builds

You must fight potatoes, every magsorc on the last tournament on my server was using Heavy, two sets in heavy are currently very good and above anything in the game and there's a particular combo of sets thats are completely *** up and need some serious adjustments.

Lylith · March 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Lylith wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Uriel_Nocturne I do agree, that it is not good taking away power from players. Same issue happened when the CP system was introduced. people lost power (they just didnt realize yet they were gonna be stronger afterwards) and QQ was raining down in the forums.
I speak from experience, I was really good at QQing on the forums in my first year

1.ANY Player does not like to loose power. No matter what game they play.
2. Forum does not represent the playerbase at all. When do you go to forums? You go there when you have to complain about something. If you are happy why would you bother? (Sure there is a small percentage that actually wants to talk about mechanics etc).
3. The Players that aactually care about changes are a small minority, the game is full of casuals which most likely will not even feel the difference.

However, I do think IF CHANGES SHOULD HAPPEN, then now is the right time. BEFORE Morrowind releases. Because there will be a lot of new players. Morrowind will make or break this game. So I really hope ZOS fixes the biggest issues....

And again, I am all for nerfing this monkey Championpoint system. They are going into the right direction. Still needs more nerfing.

WHY for gods sake does extra CP give you more resources?! Remove that *** its way too OP. @ZOS_RichLambert

I am all for that people actually have to turn on the switch in their brains again and L2P once more in this game.

[Edit for profanity]

@Alcast A couple of things:

1) I fully read your post, and while I see where you are coming from, I completely disagree with you on how the CP system is "supposed to work".

2) For all of your thoughts, this change (removing the sustain node and cost reduction node) will actually hit lower CP players just as hard as it does the top 1% of players (end-game-level Players). The sustain and cost reduction nodes scale by percentiles (as I know you are aware), so any removal/change like this will hit even the Silent Casual just as hard as it does say... the Streamers and "Elites" who run nothing but end-game level content (Trials, VMA, VDSA).

3) These changes, if made without reducing the base cost of Magicka abilities by 15-16%, while reducing the resource regeneration, will destroy most every Magicka build in the game.

4) Because of #3, most of those Silent Casual players will suddenly have their (most likely) one and only character no longer viable. They're cost of abilities will go up significantly, especially when Spam Skills are taken into consideration. Their Magicka pools will run out faster, and will return to them slower. They're going to find themselves in content that they could make it through before the patch, but now cannot complete after the patch for the simple fact that they're running out of resources too fast and it takes longer for them to return.

These players aren't going to "L2P" or flip any switch in their brains. They don't cruise through Streams or Build Guides like you provide. Hell, they probably don't even know about 75% of the crafting stations and Sets in the game, and they definitely don't know about how the Monster Drop Sets work or would want to grind out the countless hours to get any of it like you or I would, even though those Sets may/may not mitigate the effects of the change.

If this change goes through, the vast majority of the player base will suddenly find that their one and only character simply cannot complete challenges one day, that they could the previous day.

But you are right about one thing: the Silent Casual won't care. They won't follow your suggestions, indeed they will most likely never visit your Streams for you to peddle an elitist viewpoint on how the game "should be played".

They'll see that their character no longer works. There won't be a readily-available, quick fix to restore their character's potency, and they'll simply quit and go play something else.

Because like most every other Streamer and Forum user, you're taking a position that the fixes to cope with this are "obvious", and for the level of content that you run, getting the correct set of gear that coordinates well with pieces from other Sets, are easy to regain/acquire.

But the level of content that you and I run every day, the level of content that you and I find to be easy, that content is (and will most likely always be) far out of reach of the vast majority of players. They simply will never have access to the fixes that you're suggesting and promoting.

And that's where your entire argument breaks down. Your suggestions are a fine workaround for the <5% that run end-game content, and for that top 5% of the playing populace, your suggestions might/might not work. But for the rest of the player base, the Silent Casual, this will be an insurmountable change. It will be insurmountable for them, the game will become magnitudes more difficult, and they'll leave.

Because while you or I have countless hours to grind away at this game, and some of the players have found a way to make this game (and other games) their careers; the vast, vast majority of players just use this game as an escape and come here to have fun. Not to have epic-frustration-levels of difficulty. The game will no longer make their characters effective to cruise through PvE content, and those players will leave.

So while your suggestions and those proto-change to the CP constellations might be workable for the 5% of players at end-game, it will only serve to drive away armies worth of Casual Players. It will not spark that desire for them to grind away and "L2P", it will spark a desire for them to go and play a game where their characters still feel remotely powerful.

And that will only be horrifically damaging to this MMO.

I read your whole post.

I'm sorry but if a player who jumps into a new game does not know how the game works or just refuses to learn the mechanics and the things they need to get better, then that is on them. The casual content is easy enough that even for casuals with ridiculous builds can spam snipe to get through haha.

Your position rests upon the assumption that casuals don't know how to get better at a game and will.simply leave instead of getting better. I don't believe that is a correct assumptions for most casuals. Most casuals are willing to learn and get better and actually want to, they just need people to teach theme.

This was my first mmo ever. I am a Tes fan and why I got into this. The first year of this game I didn't know about weaving/animation canceling. I mained bow in dungeons as a stam.nb. as you will recall a stam player and a nb for much of first year was trash. I didn't even know about food or drink. Yet I was still able.to do all most content in the game. Then one day a friend in gAmerica taught me all of these things. I learned at got way way better to where I am very very good now. I now pass that knowledge along to new players who soak it up like a sponge.

You make the point that casuals don't play the end get stuff that many of us here do. That they simply will not be good enough to access the content we run. So if this is the, then how will this effect them? The stuff they do play is very easy to where I have been with players in dungeons who spam snipe no problem and that is it through whole dungeon. So what this will do for casuals is make those really easy dungeons they do run a bit harder. Not enough to make them quit, enough to make them think more and ask questions because despite your position, people want to get better before they decide to quit.

Then there are casuals that just run overland content and quest. The easiest content in game. This change is not going to make people so bad at overland content that they quit. See my scenario above. You can walk through the overland content with any build and win.

A game is not about being able to just run through it without thinking about how gear, stats, skills, etc. What player gets into a game thinking we'll if I can't just walk through this content without learning how to play the game then I quit????? When did this mentality start??? You can't blame a game for being too hard if your unwilling to learn how to play the game. You have no right to complain about it. I mean just think about that for a second. Hey guys your game is too hard so I quit make it easier. What was too hard? Oh well I can't really tell you because I never learned how to play the game. ????? You want to balance around that type of player???? I don't think so.

@bowmanz607 And I read your whole post, and you missed the mark just by a bit.

You've oversimplified the argument, and become lost in the same mentality that @Alcast has.

It's not that the Silent Casual majority simply doesn't know how to get better at the game, it's that their version of "getting better" is very different from what you or I view as getting better.

As I said in my most recent post; they play the game, they try out different Skills, they try out different equipment from drops and what rafting stations that they find in the wilderness, and they find something that works to get them through the content and allows them to just play the game. Just being allowed to play the game, at a mildly challenging level of difficulty, but that they can move through with only a small bit of effort; that is what the Silent Casual is looking for. I'll say it again; video games in general, and MMORPG's as a whole genre are an escape for them. The Casual majority doesn't wan tsoul-crushing challenge like the end-game player wants.

You, I, and the Streamers (as well as the rest of the Hardcore players) view "getting better" as being able to run through the hardest content in the game. If our DPS/Sustain/Healing/tanking aren't putting out the numbers we need, we grind through to get the BiS gear, and we min/max until we have the toughest builds in the game. That is how we view "getting better".

It's not that the Silent Casual doesn't have a desire to get better, it's that what "getting better" means that is important.

Again, as I replied to for Alcast; removing the resource regen CP node and changing/removing the sustain node for Magicka users will make those Magicka builds for the Silent Casual just as worthless for them, as it does for us at the end-game level. But where that drives us end-gamer's to find a way around it, and it drives us to get the newer/better BiS gear to compensate, the Casual majority Player will simply see that their Magicka character no longer works, they'll see the task of rebuilding and reallocating Skillpoints, and the task of re-grinding or creating new gear, just on the notion that this might bring back a small level of viability to their characters, and they won't want to do it.

The game (again) is an escape for them, and having to go through all of that to make their character even partially work the way it did before the change, will not spark them to start grinding out like the end-game Player does. It will only spark a desire to find a game that hasn't arbitrarily gimped their characters, a game that allows them to just play and not have to worry about grinding out the best gear in the game just to be able to play.

As far as your question about "where" this mentality comes from; it's always been there since MMORPG's first emerged as their own genre.

You have the small, niche minority of players that race to end-game and fight and scrape to stay there, then you have the vast majority of... everyone else that just wants to log-in and run around in a fantasy world for a bit to forget the troubles of their real-life day.

And ever since MMO's emerged as their own genre; those players have ditched MMORPG's en masse once changes were made that arbitrarily increased the games base difficulty above the level of casual-play (like this proto-change to the CP constellations would do). Again; it's not that the Casual doesn't want to get better, it's that "getting better" has two very different meanings for Casual Players and End-game "Elite" Players.

OK so if I understand you correctly you are simply establishing the difference in "getting better" between players?

You speak of the Silent Casual and how they will just quit rather than grind out new gear, specs etc. Here is the thing. For one, you even stated these players don't grind out gear and so forth to begin with. So the whole concept of they would rather quite than grind doesn't add up. They will just do the same thing. Further, These silent casuals are also the players that will stick to some.overland questing. The easiest content in the game. Content where you don't need to worry about gear or skill combo's or weapon combo's etc. At worst this forces players to think just a tad more about light armor and, gear sets, and food/drink. The most minimal of thought might need to go into these players setups. If a player does not want to take minimal effort into the game to play it rather than mindlessly walking through it, then I say good riddance. These are not the players staying around spending money outside of the initial purchase anyway.

Players doing over land content not being willing to make minimal adjustments is crazy. Further, this is an mmo. It will be ever changing just like every mmo. Balance changes, meta shifts etc. So not making a change because some Silent Casual can't run around with no armor and a death staff to complete content is crazy.

Your condescension of the Casual Player, and inability to see past your point of view is really defeating your own argument.

YOU think that overland questing is the easiest aspect of the game. To the vast majority of the players base, whom only ever see the overland questing, that is quite challenging enough. But you can't seem to see that, because you're blinded by your own view of how the game "should be played".

You also cannot see that, those players will have their Magicka characters ruined by this game; but while they might do some light searching/crafting to try to fix the issue, they aren't going to devote the time to grind out Trials or Public Dungeons for the Monster Set drops that WILL rectify the issue. It will be more time consuming than any of them want, because of how casually they play ESO.

For the A-typical Casual Gamer (whom again, make up the vast majority of the games' population by quite a wide margin), the overland Questing IS the challenge that they're looking for, and while they can move through it with relative ease, it still provides enough challenge to give them the sensation that they're doing something.

But if this CP change goes through, then the difficulty of that same overland questing nearly triples due to all of the setbacks discussed here already ad nauseum. The reduced Magicka regen, the higher cost of abilities, lower DPS, having less resources and resource regen but the enemies still having the same damage modifiers/difficulty/resource drain attacks.

This will inordinately increase the difficulty for these Silent Casuals, and while they might try... something to get their lost DPS/Magicka pool/Magicka Regen, they aren't going to devote the time/effort to doing so that you are.

And all of your responses reek of the idea that the Casual Gamer is going to not only know about, but have the ability/time/desire to grind out the BiS gear that would correct the CP change, but can only be found in end-game content.

That's the core problem with your responses. You expect those same Casuals to simply grind it out like you would, when the truth is; when faced with a spike in difficulty caused by ZOS arbitrarily gimping their characters, it will be easier for the Silent Casual to find another High-Fantasy MMORPG and go play that, than it will be for them to figure out why their characters got weaker and the difficulty became much more intense, than to devote the time/money/effort/grinding necessary to find gear/monster drops that will make up for what ZOS takes away.

Your argument of "well, MMO's change all the time, people just need to adapt" is flawed in its very premise. MMORPG's have changed and evolved ever since the genre began. You are very correct in that.

But not every change is good or for the better of the game.

Bad changes, or ill-planned changes that hurt the Player and their Character(s), have chased players away from MMO's for just as long. Fact: Bad Changes like I mentioned have been the biggest killers of games in this genre since its inception. Those changes chase away the Casual Player, and no MMO survives those types of population hits. And no MMO has ever survived for long once the game became fine-tuned specifically for the end-game PvE/PvP player while leaving the Casual Players out in the wind. Not a single one.

So please, while you might be fine with this change, at least try to see past your "end-game-just-grind-out-new-stuff-PvE-is-toddler-level-easy-anyway" mentality. If you could, you would see how bad this change will be for the game as a whole.

Where do you people pull your facts from? Imagination land? I want to see proof of this because not once have I heard a more casual player say this the solo content is challenging enough

yeah, it's challenging enough.

now you've heard it.

ofc there's tougher challenges to be had, should a casual choose to seek them out.

-a more casual player

When the game first launched overland was tough and solo content was not the easiest, I think many of us can remember getting rekt by that harvester in the first Fighters Guild quest. I had legit troubles when I first got up into the higher CP zones. But now with everything scaled to the same level and everything can be killed by simply heavy attacking them... No its not challenging in the least. Group bosses are of course one thing but they are designed to be done in, well, a group and solo content like vMSA is on another level entirely so a pretty good exception.

I know of two 70+ year old's playing the game and they are fairly slow and you got to be patient with them(still good fun to be around thou), but even they breeze through the overland and delves with just spamming one attack. No BiS gear, no rotation, just heavy attacking and spamming Force Pulse and they can clear everything from Delves to World Bosses to Normal Dungeons. And so if people think overworld or solo DLC content like Wrothgar is challenging... well... I'm not quiet sure what to say.

doshia was a peach, particularly so on an underleveled stam nb trying to play eso as a 'skyrim-style' archer

yeah, i learned. got to v10, 12, v14, v14, got diversified, over 900 cp, etc etc.

but i'm still a casual, i just choose to play harder content at least half the time.

but for the begginner and the true casual, i think the content at present is sufficient. the problem with it being that IF eso gets the bright idea to make it more difficult, they tend to overcorrect, i'm talking crossed the median, bent the frame, a barrelling out of control down the wrong lane like they own it.

god help any one who gets in the way.

middle ground seems to be a nice concept, but it'sassiduiously ingnored in favor of 'results' and numbers and ***.

the wrobel effect is real and it isn't pleasant or prodcutive, for the most part.

naturally ymmv. good luck.

Kay1 · March 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

Accept it? As a solo-small scale player? I just got my Guardian to 80 in GW2 and already grinding gear to start playing in June

Kay1 · March 2017

kalimar44 wrote: »

I've been playing MMOs since Ultima online 25 years ago, and devs just can't leave *** alone. They keep nerfing a game until you don't even recognize it anymore. I'm so dam tired of this.

I feel your pain so much dude you can't imagine it, I always quit games after a patch.

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Good! Sustain is a joke despite people on here seemingly thinking that some sort of change needs to be made to offset these resource nerfs. This will actually make heavy armor operate more how it should while also indirectly buffing light and medium armor. What makes heavy over the top is the cost reduction in cp. Now they will have to properly manage resources and run sustain sets over damage to compensate.

You see people like you are an issue, heavy armor doesn't need a nerf, medium and light needs a buff, light with more damage and medium with more penetration and that's it, if you want them to nerf something ask them for Eye of Flame.

You even read my post?

I said cp is what makes heavy op. Your supposed to trade sustain for it.

Not once did I say heavy needed a nerf.

Joy_Division · March 2017

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

There is plenty of options. As a magics user you could spend your points on Tenacity increasing the amount of Magicka you return to yourself with heavy attacks. You could reduce your stamina usage for sprint which would be a huge benefit to the already low stamina pool you have.

The champion point system isn't just damage, defense, regen, and reduction.

The move as I suggested opens a lot of possibilities and allows you to overcome shortcomings you originally couldnt.

I am sorry. But for someone, whose role is literally damage dealer, it is just damage, defense, regen, and reduction.

Sprinting, roll-dodging and breaking free will not help me or those, who are with me, on Valkyn Skoria. They won't help with atros at ICP. They won't help when Rakkhat will go to the center of the room with his 5% hp and start casting his globe of doom.

I am damage dealer. My job it to make the fight as short as possible, so my teammates won't get tired and overwhelmed and won't start making natural human mistakes because of it. I don't need sprinting or freaking double money from chests I need to do damage.

Apparently you've never played a healer then. Where break free and roll dodge is a life saver for you and your group. You have something called tunnel vision. Not every tree is intended to boost exactly the things you want. That's the problem with it currently. It's too easy to do so and many top end players as well as ZOS want to lower the DPS ceiling and raise the floor (their words exactly). Moving the CP trees around to prevent stacking of 100% sustain and 100% damage is the best way to achieve that.

I didn't say a word about healers in my post, you know I did play one a little bit, but this is completely besides the point, because I'm talking about DDs. It's not "tunnel vision". It's a perspective of someone who takes the role seriously. For now, yet again, I'm talking about DDs.

Simply moving will make the whole thief tree for mag DDs pointless. Nothing in it benefits the role they are supposed to fulfil. 200CPs - into nothing.

Other changes have to be made. Simply cutting the third out (for mag and stam dps) isn't an answer.

I already listed examples proving your assertion wrong. There is options available which can be beneficial to DD's. The problem is that you assume that these benefits must work in the manner you deem fit because you're DPS. As if the title of being a DPS makes you exempt from having to make tough decisions regarding your CP allocation. It doesnt. All it means is that you'll have to be wiser in your CP allocation for the dmg and sustain you want and you'll use CP on nodes you never considered in the past.

Go look at the CP trees again. I see a few which have benefit inherently or situationally. The real problem is that you don't want to see a change at all because you're content with how it is now. My consideration is still better than the approach ZOS appears to be going. Because if they have it their way you'll lose your sustain and your dps. With my suggestion you at least have a choice to balance it out in the manner you deem fit.

You have the attitude of the original Champion Point designer.

But most of those CP stars are inefficient, underwhelming, niche, or just plain bad. Yes, as a DPS, I could put points into tenacity, or sprint cost reduction ... but why would I do that? If I am running Trials and my job is to DPS, my job is to do two things: maximize my DPS and not die. Every point I put into sprint cost reduction is lowering my primary function. And I'm not going to put a point in that anyway because if I die in a Trial, it's not something a 5% sprint cost reduction would have prevented. The stars are nowhere near equivalent to the amount of power it offers a player: a 1% damage boast >>>>>>> 1% less sprinting cost!

I am most certainly not content with the CP system as it is. A big reason for the very problem Zos is trying to fix is that there are only a few good stars that offer any real power that of course we took them all. The preferable reform would be to change the bad stars to offer us more viable and interesting alternatives that would help diversify the game instead of just "moar power." What you and ZoS are proposing is to take away one of the few stars we want, replace it with one that is highly questionable (It only works in PvP, so I am screwed since I PvP and PvE; also a flat removal of resoruce mamanegemnt does not effect all classes the same), and ask us to take the bad stars. That just spells a flat out nerf and do nothing that makes our characters more interesting to play.

Bartdude · March 2017

Speaking for myself as what you would call a "casual player" I have 2 chars that are both Magical based. I've only just got to cp600 and only a short while back taken the time to do dungeons. I'm still trying to get some BIS gear because I would like to someday be able to do some of this end game content.. If I feel that my chars cannot cope after this change and I'm forced to re-roll another char I'll probably just quit. Why? Simple it's taken me 2 years to get where I am because I don't have the time to spend all day playing.
There are many things wrong or broken in this game but the worst part is the elitist players that are always in these forums asking for nerf this, buff that! just because they want it changed, especially when it comes to PVP and they don't give a toss about how it affects PVE. What makes me laugh the most is those players that assume the majority want the changes.
I would suggest creating a pole to ask players what they think and get Zos to take note, however the majority of players would never see it!
If making these changes is going to make the game harder just to please the elitists who are bored and find it to easy then for me as a casual player I'll probably never get to do end game content, which will make the grinding, playing this game a waste of my time. It's already a complete weighted RNG time sync as it is!

Duiwel · March 2017

OMG really? Is this necessary ZOS?

A little over a year ago I said have PvP stats and PvE stats and this is why.

Those regen CP points are very useful in PvE.

Rather disable CP in PvP completely if this is the road you REALLY want to take ( even though I love CP Cyrodiil

) but don't remove arcanist and mooncalf!

Enslaved · March 2017

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

This is so wrong. Everybody knows that stage 5 is RAGE. I'll wait for you to evolve to my lvl.

adriant1978 · March 2017

Duiwel wrote: »

don't remove arcanist and mooncalf!

It's Magician and Warlord they are removing.

Arcanist and Mooncalf remain but get nerfed down to 15% maximum from 25%.

Vahrokh · March 2017

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

Wouldn't it make more sense to put Mighty and Precise Strikes as a green constellation and Magician/Arcanist as a blue constellation? As a 600 CP you get 200 points per color to spend. As a Magicka user, for example, you might have 100 points into Elemental Expert, 60 points into Elfborn, and 40 points into Thaumaturge.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

I have no issue with MOVING the Magicka-based constellation nodes to The Mage set of constellations, and moving the Stamina nodes to the Thief/Warrior depending on situation.

Guys, this is all well and good, but you forget one thing.

Let's say those CPs are moved. Now I, magsorc, have to choose between sustain and dmg. But... On what am I supposed to spend my 200cp in green tree? And what stam chars are supposed to spend their 200 "blue" CPs on?

Simply moving those CPs will make whole tree useless. And no, that alone won't open the road for hybrids. If dmg will still scale from max pool resource... Bad in everything

Moving is not an answer.

There is plenty of options. As a magics user you could spend your points on Tenacity increasing the amount of Magicka you return to yourself with heavy attacks. You could reduce your stamina usage for sprint which would be a huge benefit to the already low stamina pool you have.

The champion point system isn't just damage, defense, regen, and reduction.

The move as I suggested opens a lot of possibilities and allows you to overcome shortcomings you originally couldnt.

I can do trials with zero points in stamina anywhere, why should I have "PVP" CPs available, which I don't need, while they take away PvE CPs I need?

roigseguib16_ESO · March 2017

You guys are salty af.
Give your chest a rest

Doctordarkspawn · March 2017

Kamatsu wrote: »

I'd like to share with you a screenshot I got of the end of a conversation I witnessed in Glenumbra.

This is a classic example of the general silent majority that play the game. I was going to screenshot the whole conversation, but I'd been playing for 58 minutes and the game decided it was time to boot me back to login screen.

The conversation starter (red bar color) stated he was new to the game and posting in Zone Chat out of desperation as was about to quit the game. His problem? He was leveling up and finding the game harder and harder to play due to his stats & damage getting worse and worse while mobs were hitting him harder and harder.

The other part of the person's problem was with the whole buffing system, where it seemed to him that a lvl 1 character was as strong as a maxxed out character.... but that he'd never get to be maxxed out as things were getting harder and harder for him as he leveled. So was thinking of quitting as he wasn't having fun, and didn't know what the point of strugggling through leveling if he was just going to be back where he started from.

We here all know what the problem was - the system buffs new players up to be around CP160 level's, to match the mobs, but this buff decreases as you level unless you keep your gear around your level. The game does NOT explain this system at all... so anyone who does not know how this system works will play on and feel weaker and weaker, and unless they get brave and ask in zone & get an actual answer (rather than being trolled)... they will quit.

Why is this relevant to this topic? Because this person is the classic example of the majority of casual players in these games. If things get too hard for them, they quit the game. That person was struggling to kill mobs in the first major alliance zone, didn't know why, and asked zone chat out of the blue and out of desperation - he had fully thought about just quitting, but on a spur due to zone chat being active decided to ask there.

Lucky for him he got an answer and will stay. How many other's have been in the same shoe... found the game getting harder and harder, no explanation as to why, and just quit the game rather than look it up, ask around, lrn2ply, etc? It's a question we can't answer, but a question to think about.

And the same thing will happen if massive changes are made to the game that make it suddenly harder for everyone - make changes that cripple existing builds, gear sets, etc so people have to change skills used, change gear, etc.. these people will log in, find the game too hard to play... and the majority will quit and leave the game. Some will maybe ask in Zone... and if lucky they will get help, but I've seen too many ppl told to lrn2play & git gud in zone chat to have any confidence that anyone who actually asks for help will get it.

This.

Do you people not get it yet? Read this very carefully.

Vahrokh · March 2017

austinwalter87ub17_ESO wrote: »

It's the wrong move to make. What is the right move is allowing players to choose between high sustain, or high dps, but not being able to achieve both just from CP. My methodology allows you to balance out sustain and damage. If you prefer, you can let ZOS swing their big nerf hammer and lose all your sustain via CP.

Your methodology is the recipe for failure.

ESO, much more than most other MMOs, focuses on continuous DPS checks. You either deliver or you wipe. The DPS checks are all tuned to require all out DPS specs with sustain otherwise the numbers don't add up and you won't make it before the enrage or whatever.
Lower CP players who could be viable sooner, because they could sacrifice less important CPs to put all of them into DPS trees, now face the "difficult choice" too. Too bad they simply don't have the CPs to create a workable compromise. All you achieve is to make the game more elitist and skewed towards high CP characters, who can actually choose.

bunnydaisuki · March 2017

Enslaved wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

This is so wrong. Everybody knows that stage 5 is RAGE. I'll wait for you to evolve to my lvl.

Ragequit to be exact.

Vahrokh · March 2017

Kay1 wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

The 5 stages of grief:
1. Denial;
2. Anger;
3. Bargaining;
4. Depression;
5. Acceptance.

Just waiting for the rest to catch up to stage 5.

Accept it? As a solo-small scale player? I just got my Guardian to 80 in GW2 and already grinding gear to start playing in June

Someone believes that, just because in real life we have to suck any kind of abuse just to keep a job, we should also go all the way down to self torture down to "Acceptance" for a GAME we also happen to have to pay.

fetameise · March 2017

I am one of the casuals who reads forums to get some information or tips. I do not play ESO for challenge - I simply like the world and the whole TES flavour. So I don't do end-game content and cannot pull more than 20k dps consistently. Since my favorite character is the old-style LA ranged mDk I definitely worry about discussed changes due to very expensive spells we have. So I went to the CP panel and relocated all 100 points from Magician to Tenacity. I left the Arcanist on 25% so my experiment is not entirely correct but to be honest I can do more or less fine without that cost reduction. Of course one dps set (sun) was replaced with resource oriented one (arch-mage, mediocre I know) but considering my slow DoT-based playstyle I'm doing ok. But again, I don't do the end-game content.

However I have a couple of true casual friends in game and I support the point of view that there is a certain exodus probability once these changes are in place. When ZOS increased mobs damage some time ago (there were some topics here about dungeons difficulty) one of them who plays healer was really frustrated by all the one-shots and inability to do his job. He wanted to quit but I convinced him to stay. He's doing fine now, hunting for SPC and getting good but it may change again. The problem is that these changes are listed in the forum and in game you have 0 information about them. Casual downloads new update, log-in and suddenly sees his character weak and useless. He rages and quits. There is lack of clear communication or tutorial for casuals who don't go to forums or reddit etc. They don't understand what happens.

My point is that the changes that drastically change the gameplay for most of the population should be announced and explained aloud, like what and why we did it on the first screen that you cannot close without reading or something like this. I think @Kamatsu explained that well already.

Garwulf · March 2017

What a laugh . Might as well have stuck with the VR sytem and made it easier to get there. A rudderless ship, in a storm, near the coast comes to mind.

Lucky28 · March 2017

i really really hope these changes don't go through, they're so bad and it would make the game so boring.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I'm okay with the change, and I've already got a way to work around having less sustain.

I strongly believe block cost CP should get a nerf to go with it, blowing my Magicka pool on someone blocking should drain both of our resources. Not just mine. Fair is fair, a one click "scotch tape the mouse button down" defense shouldn't be that much stronger.

I also hope that they just nerf the cost CP instead of eliminating it entirely. Say, 10-12% instead of 25%? Removing it is a little too drastic, but a nerf of some kind is definitely called for.

Look, I understand god-mode sustain is a problem in this game, and that battlegrounds just WONT work with some of the cancer builds out there. I think you need to take a hard look at some of the available sets first.

@Minalan , the longer you hold, the more expensive it (block cost) becomes and the lower your follow up regen becomes.

A block cooldown/penalty, if you will. There needs to be an opening somewhere in there.

They do it for roll dodge and skills like streak, why not for block?

There should be no such thing as a permablock build. There should be some kind of recover time requried.

Because tanks would be ***, how would you tank a trial

By blocking when appropriate. Tanking in this game can be fun but is otherwise a joke.

"Block when appropriate?" OK let me just go tank vAA HM Axes and Block "when appropriate", oh wait, that's always. having 5-7 Axes constantly Heavy attacking you and if you happen to miss blocking just a single on of them you are dead and you have just released all those axes onto the rest of the group. Reactive blocking isn't gonna be a thing in this game cause its not an action combat game. Damage is calculated BEFORE any animation hits, with the exception of the telegraphs. Its the same reason why so many people yell out in frustration "I was out of that" and yea you might have run/roll dodged before the animation but sadly that won't save you all of the time. Now I would love it if this was a bit more action combat like but that would require remaking the entire game from scratch, and so since that won't happen can we please stop trying to make tanks have to "Block when appropriate"

Sounds like a perfect opportunity to have another tank.

In Hardmode there is already another tank and its not a role that can just be filed by a DPS or Healer with a taunt. Cause its not just taunting the mage its taunting the Storm atros and moving them to where they need to be. Some people take them to the mini mages and other keep them on the boss but either way its not something a normal DPS or Healer can do, and in a HM you can't be wasting DPS on that either, as well a tank in a position like that close to the boss can give alkosh or powerful assault. So if you yet again want to put in another tank it would be a third one and would lower DPS even more, and considering how long the burn is on HM that will make it harder still. I like trials with 2 tanks but I don't like it when it goes over that, cause at that point we might as well all just go to PvP like set up with self heals and self sustain and no tanks at all.

The so be it. Simple matter is tanking in this game went from being brainless, to being dramatically difficult when IC dropped, and thanks to powercreep we're back at brainless again. ZOS has shown us that the current mechanics for compelling tanking do not withstand the test of time. They will invariably swing, no matter what they do, back to taping down your right mouse button and the only way to alleviate that is to simply change the mechanics of blocking.

Same thing with DPS. It will inevitably return to playing a game of Simon where your capability is determined at character creation and your ability to press the same buttons, in the same order for the longest period of time with the fewest fluctuations. That isn't compelling, either.

Combat in ESO PVE is completely non-dynamic - where it should be because they have such an intricate system in place. Removal of Warlord/Magician is acknowledging that but it hardly solves it.

Tanking is still brainless? I disagree. Almost everyone considers tanking to just be about holding block and looking at your resources, which is why the game is in serious decline of actual good tanks. It's a lot more on than just doing that, if you don't understand why positioning a boss or the enemies a certain way and just holding block then you're doing some serious damage to your group, because a group that has a tank not knowing how they are directly responsible for that is just awful.

A lot of the times the DPS also relies on some Igneous Shield that can be from either your main tank or off tank, so shielding a ton during trash or bosses can save someones life really. And then you have alkosh, you actually have to pay attention if you want high uptime on alkosh.

So honestly tanks who want more to do than just blocking aren't exactly looking at the bigger picture and how they can help their group out, because tanks are still among the most important role and often the hardest role to fill if you want a good one.

PVP tanks don't taunt or position other players. They tape down the right mouse button and spam snares when they can.

I'm okay with that. I just think blocking should cost more since ALL damage, mobility, purge, debuffs, buffs, and healing spells are going to cost more as well. You can't affect the cost of every other game mechanic without touching block, or you leave block ridiculously overpowered.

PVP tanks really have no purpose, and thats on ZOS giving them no purpose. It would be better if ZOS went in and changed the tank pvp gameplay by offering some more skills and such. But we're purely talking PVE here and those two have been for quite awhile.

well tanks do have a purpose for Group PvP. i mean when you're facing another group with a lot of healing, it's very, very nice to have a fessala's tank to vanguard before the DPS push in. but i do think a lot of tanks that currently play are content to just stand around and hold block. i dunno.

Tasear · March 2017

paulsimonps wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

@Alcast I saw you site it was quite boring, and that what game will be like. Where does it say there should be only templar healer but thats all your cookie cutter is suggesting. How about something creative or uquie build to be a super thief or to farm really well.

The game implied that I could do any role with any class admit a bit harder or differently but these suggestions are abomination. How am I suppose to complete my role as sorrecer healer.

Reroll as templar after 2700 hours, no. I played this way fine. Reported the bugs, supplied majority of the current builds. I done alot of work or effort into this. More than I endure humiliation and degradating comments on my class choice. Why because game implied I could.

Surely, these changes are reality. But do consider balance @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom . You have the community 3 roles and soon to be 5 classes. Assuming warden has already been taken care of there a total of 12 possibility while sub dividing races in Magicka and stamina meaning 24. In regards to races, I wish you to simply consider the consequences of this change. Stamina races on Magicka races will be suffering alot. As a reason to care is elitest.

Everyone knows the game has sufferedfeom it since one tamerial but this will make even more apparent. This takes away from the appeal of the game. Most of us play for the freedom of choice. That's why we said it was like no other game we ever seen.

I worry now is it worth putting anymore time. If come June I won't be even invited as support. Now because of skill but simply design. I suggest a few things, first insurance we will still be able to play. Make the subpar traits group buffs or add it to housing, where housing limits are daily buff limit for people with division in beds, books , treasure and such. This would not be pay to win but it would promote the crown store. Add spell crafting early or let us know it's coming soon. Lastly revisit some skills and group utility.

P.S the sorcerer healer aka needs some balance to warden. Same skills but inferior has disappointed. Sure I want to play warden, but I don't want to play if I was forced to.

Speaking to the wind, but maybe give extra buffs to sorcerer healer for other pet users. The simy suggestion is give every class speciality that is essential. This would mean every healer would bring something different for the team and people would actually have work with each others strength and weakness.

In summary @ZOS_GinaBruno, I have bothered you too much, but please don't let the middle class players disappear.

~all I want to do is to be given a chance to support people to the best of my ability even if I am sorrecer.

First of, wow that was hard to read. Second, what you are asking for is basically a large overhaul of the class skills in terms of group healing. See its not the healing its self that makes the Templar the priority choice for Trials and Harder Veteran Dungeons, its their utility. They have Spear Shards, Radiant Aura or Repentance and Nova, as well as easy access to Major Mending and have great sustain on their own part with minor intellect. They also have Power of the Light, which even some healers use even thou its a stamina ability, to helps support the group. Their Cleansing Ritual ability is also a source of a synergy which for end game trials with tanks running Alkosh is a huge deal.

So what would a sorcerer or any other class for that matter need to compete with that? Cause HPS means very little when it comes to choosing healer. They would need some form of unique way of giving sustain and utility to the group. But at the moment all they have is some OK Crowd control abilities and some decent Class heals with the Twilight, they also don't have access to Major Mending without using Resto Heavy attacks, which gives low up time unless used every 3s.

But its not just the Sorcerers that has this problem but DK's and NB's too, that is why Templars reign supreme in End Game healing. People are playing it and enforcing it cause its what currently works best, and it shows whenever you don't have one in your group. Sure you can keep everyone alive with your healing but the extra support Templars give in sustain will be lost and the DPS will suffer for it and can in certain situations also cause deaths.

So either way you are asking for quite a big thing here in wanting all classes to be equal in the healing department. But no matter what, there will always be one class that is better than the other in doing a certain task. There will always be one class set up that does high DPS, there will always be one healer that gives better support and there will always be a class that has better tanks sustain and support. The only thing a change like that might offer is a swap from one class to another. Yes getting more options out there is great, but for end game people will always theory craft and choose the thing is that the best by proven standard. Now I do want more balance too but just saying don't be hating too much on people that show others how the effective and trial proven ways are done just cause you want to play your unique way.

No just don't make it so obvious that templars are top dogs. I am saying such changes leaked above will have a consequence other healers that aren't templars.

As these demands will force people to only pick templar healer for teams. It will be just like a year when people said LF Healer *templar only. Which is discrimination and is not cool..

The game developer realized that and did overhaul to healing in general this past year that put everything in the right direction. (Breath of life used to heal 4 people and cost less) You won't see such talk for dungeons, or even normal trials. Even veteran trials are becoming more acceptabling but the proposed revisions will take us in the past.

As such to clarify my point, if you go through with these changes @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , just make sure all four types of healers before June can be supportive when DPS feels this lost. Dungeon finder already has DPS waiting an hour. Just wait till it's 4 or even more. This isn't an exaggeration healers will simply become the rarest role to find.

Sure you will have wardens and templars, but it's not reasonable to assume everyone will convert. As last if nothing else can I get a cheap respec.. maybe I would be willing to give up...Heard stamina sorcs are fun.

P.S Gina and Jessica, Who knows if you guys read these bothersome things,but I am done bothering you for awhile. So thanks if you saw this.

Ghost-Shot · March 2017

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Speaking as someone who has killed hard mode Rakkaht, you are drastically exaggerating how bad it will be. Minor magicka steal is OP my friend, use it

. TBH I miss raiding in 1.3-1.5 when we actually did have to worry about resource management in raids. With the exception of Rakkaht hard mode, everything is too easy now.

DragonBound · March 2017

~~!fdecvghbcv n

Lylith wrote: »

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

@Uriel_Nocturne I do agree, that it is not good taking away power from players. Same issue happened when the CP system was introduced. people lost power (they just didnt realize yet they were gonna be stronger afterwards) and QQ was raining down in the forums.
I speak from experience, I was really good at QQing on the forums in my first year

1.ANY Player does not like to loose power. No matter what game they play.
2. Forum does not represent the playerbase at all. When do you go to forums? You go there when you have to complain about something. If you are happy why would you bother? (Sure there is a small percentage that actually wants to talk about mechanics etc).
3. The Players that aactually care about changes are a small minority, the game is full of casuals which most likely will not even feel the difference.

However, I do think IF CHANGES SHOULD HAPPEN, then now is the right time. BEFORE Morrowind releases. Because there will be a lot of new players. Morrowind will make or break this game. So I really hope ZOS fixes the biggest issues....

And again, I am all for nerfing this monkey Championpoint system. They are going into the right direction. Still needs more nerfing.

WHY for gods sake does extra CP give you more resources?! Remove that *** its way too OP. @ZOS_RichLambert

I am all for that people actually have to turn on the switch in their brains again and L2P once more in this game.

[Edit for profanity]

@Alcast A couple of things:

1) I fully read your post, and while I see where you are coming from, I completely disagree with you on how the CP system is "supposed to work".

2) For all of your thoughts, this change (removing the sustain node and cost reduction node) will actually hit lower CP players just as hard as it does the top 1% of players (end-game-level Players). The sustain and cost reduction nodes scale by percentiles (as I know you are aware), so any removal/change like this will hit even the Silent Casual just as hard as it does say... the Streamers and "Elites" who run nothing but end-game level content (Trials, VMA, VDSA).

3) These changes, if made without reducing the base cost of Magicka abilities by 15-16%, while reducing the resource regeneration, will destroy most every Magicka build in the game.

4) Because of #3, most of those Silent Casual players will suddenly have their (most likely) one and only character no longer viable. They're cost of abilities will go up significantly, especially when Spam Skills are taken into consideration. Their Magicka pools will run out faster, and will return to them slower. They're going to find themselves in content that they could make it through before the patch, but now cannot complete after the patch for the simple fact that they're running out of resources too fast and it takes longer for them to return.

These players aren't going to "L2P" or flip any switch in their brains. They don't cruise through Streams or Build Guides like you provide. Hell, they probably don't even know about 75% of the crafting stations and Sets in the game, and they definitely don't know about how the Monster Drop Sets work or would want to grind out the countless hours to get any of it like you or I would, even though those Sets may/may not mitigate the effects of the change.

If this change goes through, the vast majority of the player base will suddenly find that their one and only character simply cannot complete challenges one day, that they could the previous day.

But you are right about one thing: the Silent Casual won't care. They won't follow your suggestions, indeed they will most likely never visit your Streams for you to peddle an elitist viewpoint on how the game "should be played".

They'll see that their character no longer works. There won't be a readily-available, quick fix to restore their character's potency, and they'll simply quit and go play something else.

Because like most every other Streamer and Forum user, you're taking a position that the fixes to cope with this are "obvious", and for the level of content that you run, getting the correct set of gear that coordinates well with pieces from other Sets, are easy to regain/acquire.

But the level of content that you and I run every day, the level of content that you and I find to be easy, that content is (and will most likely always be) far out of reach of the vast majority of players. They simply will never have access to the fixes that you're suggesting and promoting.

And that's where your entire argument breaks down. Your suggestions are a fine workaround for the <5% that run end-game content, and for that top 5% of the playing populace, your suggestions might/might not work. But for the rest of the player base, the Silent Casual, this will be an insurmountable change. It will be insurmountable for them, the game will become magnitudes more difficult, and they'll leave.

Because while you or I have countless hours to grind away at this game, and some of the players have found a way to make this game (and other games) their careers; the vast, vast majority of players just use this game as an escape and come here to have fun. Not to have epic-frustration-levels of difficulty. The game will no longer make their characters effective to cruise through PvE content, and those players will leave.

So while your suggestions and those proto-change to the CP constellations might be workable for the 5% of players at end-game, it will only serve to drive away armies worth of Casual Players. It will not spark that desire for them to grind away and "L2P", it will spark a desire for them to go and play a game where their characters still feel remotely powerful.

And that will only be horrifically damaging to this MMO.

I read your whole post.

I'm sorry but if a player who jumps into a new game does not know how the game works or just refuses to learn the mechanics and the things they need to get better, then that is on them. The casual content is easy enough that even for casuals with ridiculous builds can spam snipe to get through haha.

Your position rests upon the assumption that casuals don't know how to get better at a game and will.simply leave instead of getting better. I don't believe that is a correct assumptions for most casuals. Most casuals are willing to learn and get better and actually want to, they just need people to teach theme.

This was my first mmo ever. I am a Tes fan and why I got into this. The first year of this game I didn't know about weaving/animation canceling. I mained bow in dungeons as a stam.nb. as you will recall a stam player and a nb for much of first year was trash. I didn't even know about food or drink. Yet I was still able.to do all most content in the game. Then one day a friend in gAmerica taught me all of these things. I learned at got way way better to where I am very very good now. I now pass that knowledge along to new players who soak it up like a sponge.

You make the point that casuals don't play the end get stuff that many of us here do. That they simply will not be good enough to access the content we run. So if this is the, then how will this effect them? The stuff they do play is very easy to where I have been with players in dungeons who spam snipe no problem and that is it through whole dungeon. So what this will do for casuals is make those really easy dungeons they do run a bit harder. Not enough to make them quit, enough to make them think more and ask questions because despite your position, people want to get better before they decide to quit.

Then there are casuals that just run overland content and quest. The easiest content in game. This change is not going to make people so bad at overland content that they quit. See my scenario above. You can walk through the overland content with any build and win.

A game is not about being able to just run through it without thinking about how gear, stats, skills, etc. What player gets into a game thinking we'll if I can't just walk through this content without learning how to play the game then I quit????? When did this mentality start??? You can't blame a game for being too hard if your unwilling to learn how to play the game. You have no right to complain about it. I mean just think about that for a second. Hey guys your game is too hard so I quit make it easier. What was too hard? Oh well I can't really tell you because I never learned how to play the game. ????? You want to balance around that type of player???? I don't think so.

@bowmanz607 And I read your whole post, and you missed the mark just by a bit.

You've oversimplified the argument, and become lost in the same mentality that @Alcast has.

It's not that the Silent Casual majority simply doesn't know how to get better at the game, it's that their version of "getting better" is very different from what you or I view as getting better.

As I said in my most recent post; they play the game, they try out different Skills, they try out different equipment from drops and what rafting stations that they find in the wilderness, and they find something that works to get them through the content and allows them to just play the game. Just being allowed to play the game, at a mildly challenging level of difficulty, but that they can move through with only a small bit of effort; that is what the Silent Casual is looking for. I'll say it again; video games in general, and MMORPG's as a whole genre are an escape for them. The Casual majority doesn't wan tsoul-crushing challenge like the end-game player wants.

You, I, and the Streamers (as well as the rest of the Hardcore players) view "getting better" as being able to run through the hardest content in the game. If our DPS/Sustain/Healing/tanking aren't putting out the numbers we need, we grind through to get the BiS gear, and we min/max until we have the toughest builds in the game. That is how we view "getting better".

It's not that the Silent Casual doesn't have a desire to get better, it's that what "getting better" means that is important.

Again, as I replied to for Alcast; removing the resource regen CP node and changing/removing the sustain node for Magicka users will make those Magicka builds for the Silent Casual just as worthless for them, as it does for us at the end-game level. But where that drives us end-gamer's to find a way around it, and it drives us to get the newer/better BiS gear to compensate, the Casual majority Player will simply see that their Magicka character no longer works, they'll see the task of rebuilding and reallocating Skillpoints, and the task of re-grinding or creating new gear, just on the notion that this might bring back a small level of viability to their characters, and they won't want to do it.

The game (again) is an escape for them, and having to go through all of that to make their character even partially work the way it did before the change, will not spark them to start grinding out like the end-game Player does. It will only spark a desire to find a game that hasn't arbitrarily gimped their characters, a game that allows them to just play and not have to worry about grinding out the best gear in the game just to be able to play.

As far as your question about "where" this mentality comes from; it's always been there since MMORPG's first emerged as their own genre.

You have the small, niche minority of players that race to end-game and fight and scrape to stay there, then you have the vast majority of... everyone else that just wants to log-in and run around in a fantasy world for a bit to forget the troubles of their real-life day.

And ever since MMO's emerged as their own genre; those players have ditched MMORPG's en masse once changes were made that arbitrarily increased the games base difficulty above the level of casual-play (like this proto-change to the CP constellations would do). Again; it's not that the Casual doesn't want to get better, it's that "getting better" has two very different meanings for Casual Players and End-game "Elite" Players.

OK so if I understand you correctly you are simply establishing the difference in "getting better" between players?

You speak of the Silent Casual and how they will just quit rather than grind out new gear, specs etc. Here is the thing. For one, you even stated these players don't grind out gear and so forth to begin with. So the whole concept of they would rather quite than grind doesn't add up. They will just do the same thing. Further, These silent casuals are also the players that will stick to some.overland questing. The easiest content in the game. Content where you don't need to worry about gear or skill combo's or weapon combo's etc. At worst this forces players to think just a tad more about light armor and, gear sets, and food/drink. The most minimal of thought might need to go into these players setups. If a player does not want to take minimal effort into the game to play it rather than mindlessly walking through it, then I say good riddance. These are not the players staying around spending money outside of the initial purchase anyway.

Players doing over land content not being willing to make minimal adjustments is crazy. Further, this is an mmo. It will be ever changing just like every mmo. Balance changes, meta shifts etc. So not making a change because some Silent Casual can't run around with no armor and a death staff to complete content is crazy.

Your condescension of the Casual Player, and inability to see past your point of view is really defeating your own argument.

YOU think that overland questing is the easiest aspect of the game. To the vast majority of the players base, whom only ever see the overland questing, that is quite challenging enough. But you can't seem to see that, because you're blinded by your own view of how the game "should be played".

You also cannot see that, those players will have their Magicka characters ruined by this game; but while they might do some light searching/crafting to try to fix the issue, they aren't going to devote the time to grind out Trials or Public Dungeons for the Monster Set drops that WILL rectify the issue. It will be more time consuming than any of them want, because of how casually they play ESO.

For the A-typical Casual Gamer (whom again, make up the vast majority of the games' population by quite a wide margin), the overland Questing IS the challenge that they're looking for, and while they can move through it with relative ease, it still provides enough challenge to give them the sensation that they're doing something.

But if this CP change goes through, then the difficulty of that same overland questing nearly triples due to all of the setbacks discussed here already ad nauseum. The reduced Magicka regen, the higher cost of abilities, lower DPS, having less resources and resource regen but the enemies still having the same damage modifiers/difficulty/resource drain attacks.

This will inordinately increase the difficulty for these Silent Casuals, and while they might try... something to get their lost DPS/Magicka pool/Magicka Regen, they aren't going to devote the time/effort to doing so that you are.

And all of your responses reek of the idea that the Casual Gamer is going to not only know about, but have the ability/time/desire to grind out the BiS gear that would correct the CP change, but can only be found in end-game content.

That's the core problem with your responses. You expect those same Casuals to simply grind it out like you would, when the truth is; when faced with a spike in difficulty caused by ZOS arbitrarily gimping their characters, it will be easier for the Silent Casual to find another High-Fantasy MMORPG and go play that, than it will be for them to figure out why their characters got weaker and the difficulty became much more intense, than to devote the time/money/effort/grinding necessary to find gear/monster drops that will make up for what ZOS takes away.

Your argument of "well, MMO's change all the time, people just need to adapt" is flawed in its very premise. MMORPG's have changed and evolved ever since the genre began. You are very correct in that.

But not every change is good or for the better of the game.

Bad changes, or ill-planned changes that hurt the Player and their Character(s), have chased players away from MMO's for just as long. Fact: Bad Changes like I mentioned have been the biggest killers of games in this genre since its inception. Those changes chase away the Casual Player, and no MMO survives those types of population hits. And no MMO has ever survived for long once the game became fine-tuned specifically for the end-game PvE/PvP player while leaving the Casual Players out in the wind. Not a single one.

So please, while you might be fine with this change, at least try to see past your "end-game-just-grind-out-new-stuff-PvE-is-toddler-level-easy-anyway" mentality. If you could, you would see how bad this change will be for the game as a whole.

Where do you people pull your facts from? Imagination land? I want to see proof of this because not once have I heard a more casual player say this the solo content is challenging enough

yeah, it's challenging enough.

now you've heard it.

ofc there's tougher challenges to be had, should a casual choose to seek them out.

-a more casual player

In other words your still full of it.

DragonBound · March 2017

fetameise wrote: »

I am one of the casuals who reads forums to get some information or tips. I do not play ESO for challenge - I simply like the world and the whole TES flavour. So I don't do end-game content and cannot pull more than 20k dps consistently. Since my favorite character is the old-style LA ranged mDk I definitely worry about discussed changes due to very expensive spells we have. So I went to the CP panel and relocated all 100 points from Magician to Tenacity. I left the Arcanist on 25% so my experiment is not entirely correct but to be honest I can do more or less fine without that cost reduction. Of course one dps set (sun) was replaced with resource oriented one (arch-mage, mediocre I know) but considering my slow DoT-based playstyle I'm doing ok. But again, I don't do the end-game content.

However I have a couple of true casual friends in game and I support the point of view that there is a certain exodus probability once these changes are in place. When ZOS increased mobs damage some time ago (there were some topics here about dungeons difficulty) one of them who plays healer was really frustrated by all the one-shots and inability to do his job. He wanted to quit but I convinced him to stay. He's doing fine now, hunting for SPC and getting good but it may change again. The problem is that these changes are listed in the forum and in game you have 0 information about them. Casual downloads new update, log-in and suddenly sees his character weak and useless. He rages and quits. There is lack of clear communication or tutorial for casuals who don't go to forums or reddit etc. They don't understand what happens.

My point is that the changes that drastically change the gameplay for most of the population should be announced and explained aloud, like what and why we did it on the first screen that you cannot close without reading or something like this. I think @Kamatsu explained that well already.

Well I really do not want to be that guy but eso is not a casual mmorpg, and mmorpgs where never meant to be super casual, they can be played casually yes well most anyway, but that does not mean it needs a casual nature, guild wars 2 is the most casual mmorpg I have ever played and people still complained about it, if you do not have more then a few hours a week people need to look somewhere else then an mmorpg, there are phone mmorpgs that are far more casual its just the truth.

Vahrokh · March 2017

CosmicSoul wrote: »

Well I really do not want to be that guy but eso is not a casual mmorpg, and mmorpgs where never meant to be super casual,

MMOs that were "never meant to be casual" were something when 100k subscribers were considered a big success.
That allowed MMOs with good gameplay, but no real "bell and whistles" that nowadays are almost taken as granted: NPCs with speech, maps that change depending on quest status, multi-gaming platforms support and so on.

In order to allow these modern features, the amount of income has to grow tenfold and this only happens if you get ten times as many subscribers and this only happens if you lower the difficulty curve.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Speaking as someone who has killed hard mode Rakkaht, you are drastically exaggerating how bad it will be. Minor magicka steal is OP my friend, use it . TBH I miss raiding in 1.3-1.5 when we actually did have to worry about resource management in raids. With the exception of Rakkaht hard mode, everything is too easy now.

Less than <1% of the population can even complete vet trials my man. Just look at PsN trophies for the game. The amount of people you are representing is so small compared to the rest that it's laughable. Except it's not because the game should not be balanced around the <1% of the population who find it easy to do these things.

Elitism is not how a game progresses and makes revenue

bowmanz607 · March 2017

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Speaking as someone who has killed hard mode Rakkaht, you are drastically exaggerating how bad it will be. Minor magicka steal is OP my friend, use it . TBH I miss raiding in 1.3-1.5 when we actually did have to worry about resource management in raids. With the exception of Rakkaht hard mode, everything is too easy now.

Less than <1% of the population can even complete vet trials my man. Just look at PsN trophies for the game. The amount of people you are representing is so small compared to the rest that it's laughable. Except it's not because the game should not be balanced around the <1% of the population who find it easy to do these things.

Elitism is not how a game progresses and makes revenue

nor is appeasing uber casual players.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Dantaria wrote: »

I'm honestly confused by those who say that those CP are OP, hooray to the change. Like... have you ever run endgame content?

Go to YouTube and watch vMoL HM Rakkaht. Without Magician it would be... I don't even know. Praying, swearing and making it 1 sec before the wipe in the best case scenario?

Or screw it. Vet Skoria, anyone? The last boss in City of Ash II? Enjoy swiming in lava, praying and swearing. Wipefest, great.

On its own this change is disastrous. Unless there are some other changes, like nerfing bosses or reducing base cost of abilities or making basic regen higher... Yep. Screwed.

Speaking as someone who has killed hard mode Rakkaht, you are drastically exaggerating how bad it will be. Minor magicka steal is OP my friend, use it . TBH I miss raiding in 1.3-1.5 when we actually did have to worry about resource management in raids. With the exception of Rakkaht hard mode, everything is too easy now.

Less than <1% of the population can even complete vet trials my man. Just look at PsN trophies for the game. The amount of people you are representing is so small compared to the rest that it's laughable. Except it's not because the game should not be balanced around the <1% of the population who find it easy to do these things.

Elitism is not how a game progresses and makes revenue

nor is appeasing uber casual players.

Who tf said appeasing uber casuals?

Less than 1% have ever completed a vet trial in this entire games lifespan. That tells me somethings wrong and it's not the casuals in the game