I heard you liked your resource pools ? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

HoloYoitsu · March 2017

Integral1900 wrote: »

Fake...

This is literally from the PAX East booths, it's not fake.

Kamatsu · March 2017

There's rumors that this in addition to removing Magician/Warlord and nerfing Arcanist/Mooncalf.

If they make these changes they HAVE to also change damage CP, otherwise numbers win all (even more).

If this change is legit, warlord is still visible to the top of the tree. So maybe not entirely removing ?

Information shown in these images (not my info) from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB

From this you can see:

- No more Stamina or Magicka cost reduction CP
- Magicka/Stamina regen CP nerfed down to 15% @ 100, down from 25% @ 100
- Warlord changed to "Break Free" cost reduction
- Magician is being replaced by Siphoner, a CP aimed purely for PvP since it reduces targets regen (health, magicka & stamina) when hit by light/heavy weapon attacks

They have said these changes are not fixed, and could change between now and the release of Morrowind.

loki547 · March 2017

Precise strikes change is huge. Crit will not apply to heals or to ULTs

Dracane · March 2017

If this stacks, then we can trash 1vx in pvp once and for all. 1xing has been made harder since the game launched and this would definately be the end of it and this is the first time, that I say that I would quite the game, for good.

Asgari · March 2017

Guess i will just stick to my zero regen builds.

Derra · March 2017

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Guess i will just stick to my zero regen builds.

Which will also have huge issues given they´ll miss 16% costreduction.

DHale · March 2017

So tired of ZOS changing stuff that doesn't need changed and not fix the thousand things that need fixing like grouping tool or lag or any number of things.

Malibulove · March 2017

mtwiggz wrote: »

Let us allocate the same amount of CP we do now. Continue to give us more CP every patch, but decrease the CP values by 25-50% across the board.

Ex: 100 points in Magician currently gives us 16% cost reduction. Decrease that value to 8-12% at 100 points.

The issue with the CP system is that the trees give far too much. Adding in or removing CP trees isn't the answer. Balance what we already have first.

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert

That's exactly what they did with Recovery. Knocked it down to 15% from 25%.

The reason Cost Reduction got removed is because of what it was doing to game balance. ZOS was running into scenarios with skills like Strife, where they were having to rebalance skills specifically because of CP. And I imagine they really didn't like being put into that situation, and felt it would be easier to balance the game if every skill didn't have two versions that had to be kept in equilibrium (the cost with CP and the cost without CP).

Wollust · March 2017

This leaves me wondering about what kinda people were invited by ZoS......

Aedaryl · March 2017

The nerf of regen and cost reduction is a good thing, people will invest more into regen and it will descrease insane damage outpoot, this will make medium and light amors defense better while descrease their sustain.

Problem is heavy armor users, they will be more better, because they only lost cost reduction...

The cps that descrease regen with lights attack is so stupid... This is probably the counter to regen, 16% more from acanist/moonthing and 16% less from that new cp

Maybe people will put points into heavy attacks cost return which is make heavy armor on the top too...

I will maybe run 3 cost reduction glyphs on jewllery + full damage set and mundus stone with the purple max magicka-max health-magicka regen food or the blue drink max magicka - mag regen. (I'm pet sorc)

Ragnaroek93 · March 2017

That's a joke. It will destroy 1vX and push people further into the heavy armor no sustain Redguard meta.

Joy_Division · March 2017

Using the broken CP system to fix said broken CP system.

Any more wonderful ideas ZoS?

So looking forward to wasting CPs in a PvP only star even though I also PvE.

It's almost like the people who develop this game do not play it ...

NeillMcAttack · March 2017

I'm quite happy to see these kinds of changes.
I feel people are very quick to jump to conclusions about these being the only changes to come. I'd imagine we will see many skills and passives being tweaked along side these.

technohic · March 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

Using the broken CP system to fix said broken CP system.

Any more wonderful ideas ZoS?

So looking forward to wasting CPs in a PvP only star even though I also PvE.

It's almost like the people who develop this game do not play it ...

I usually stick to Azuras and spec CP for PVE I do occasionally. I think I might have to get on the ridiculous PvEer bandwagon of blaming PVP for nerfs.

Nah. It will affect my PVE but there's already complaints for CP making things to easy. They just need to cut the crap with light and heavy attack doing so much.

TequilaFire · March 2017

Uh, no PvP player in their right mind asked for this.
Put the "credit" where it belongs on the devs.

manny254 · March 2017

Aedaryl wrote: »

The nerf of regen and cost reduction is a good thing, people will invest more into regen and it will descrease insane damage outpoot, this will make medium and light amors defense better while descrease their sustain.

Problem is heavy armor users, they will be more better, because they only lost cost reduction...

The cps that descrease regen with lights attack is so stupid... This is probably the counter to regen, 16% more from acanist/moonthing and 16% less from that new cp

Maybe people will put points into heavy attacks cost return which is make heavy armor on the top too...

I will maybe run 3 cost reduction glyphs on jewllery + full damage set and mundus stone with the purple max magicka-max health-magicka regen food or the blue drink max magicka - mag regen. (I'm pet sorc)

Or people will just stack all damage and Zerg harder. Blanket changes like this will never fix the game. Very specific adjustments are what is needed.

The first example I can think of is with the healing change. This hurts all builds, but in stamina builds NB will be hurt the most. Meanwhile Stam DK will probably suffer the least from this, but they are the best example of the healing problems they are trying to address.

The next example would be the changes to sustain. Within stamina builds Templar will suffer the most. Meanwhile Stam sorc will suffer the least, and once again Stam sorc is the best example of the sustain issues they are trying to address.

All these blanket changes will do is imbalance the game further.

Minalan · March 2017

So, you're nerfing resource cost and regen, but not the block expertise CP?

Have you even been to Cyrodiil lately ZOS?

I'm okay with taking away Magician so long as block expertise goes away with it.

olsborg · March 2017

Derra wrote: »

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

Guess i will just stick to my zero regen builds.

Which will also have huge issues given they´ll miss 16% costreduction.

So will every other build, cept heavy armor no regen builds will basicly only feel this one change. Their noregen builds where they rely on resource returns through racial,class or heavy armor passives will not be impacted as heavily as light and medium armor.

My light armor/medium armor builds are retired, best focus on heavy armor warden build when that time comes.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · March 2017

Time to dust off engine guardian and move home campaign to azura. Like said previous I'm not going to invest cp's into one PvP star just for PvP sake.

Glamdring · March 2017

This must be a joke, for example theese changes makes a heavy armour stam sorcs even stronger, when in reality if ZoS would care to actually play the game heavy armour and stamsorcs needed a nerf. Now they will have outmatched sustain. Talk about hit and miss, wtf.

blabafat · March 2017

Here we go, let's buff the zergs!

EldritchPenguin · March 2017

technohic wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Using the broken CP system to fix said broken CP system.

Any more wonderful ideas ZoS?

So looking forward to wasting CPs in a PvP only star even though I also PvE.

It's almost like the people who develop this game do not play it ...

I usually stick to Azuras and spec CP for PVE I do occasionally. I think I might have to get on the ridiculous PvEer bandwagon of blaming PVP for nerfs.

Nah. It will affect my PVE but there's already complaints for CP making things to easy. They just need to cut the crap with light and heavy attack doing so much.

No PvP player asked for this. In fact, I think this change is substantially worse for PvP than PvE. Light and Medium armor builds already underperform in PvP compared to Heavy armor builds. These changes utterly curbstomp high recovery builds, which no heavy armor build usually uses. Nobody asked for more Redguard StamSorcerers in Cyrodil, but we're just going to get more and more of them if these changes go into effect.

Malamar1229 · March 2017

increasing time to kill by pushing everyone into light attacks

MaxwellC · March 2017

The light attack heavy attack B.S needs to end here, animation cancelling is something almost everyone does but now not only do you have to deal with poisons that do stack on you at-least unique debuffs (not the same debuff applied twice) you now have to deal with people getting a free debuff right at the start.... Come on ZOS this isn't going to make anyone happy at all.

Takllin · March 2017

Malibulove wrote: »

Cost reduction and Recovery CP passives were dumb to begin with.

I remember back towards launch when recovery actually mattered as a stat. The game wasn't perfect but it wasn't the end of the world either, when you needed to spec recovery on Gear/Glyphs and actually sacrifice raw stats or damage to obtain it.

I say more power to ZOS for doing this, if the no CP week taught me anything it was that many players are snowflakes who use CP as a crutch to peddle weak builds. If those builds fail as a result of a handful of CP changes, who cares?

Real pvpers will adapt, move on, and be effective regardless of whatever passives CP gives.

This is not true. What was done when the game launched was gold all your gear so you're instantly at the soft cap for damage without even trying, then wear sets like seducer/warlock/syrabane and cost reduction glyphs that bypass the soft cap system. No one specced for damage because you didn't have to. No one specced for regen because it was inefficient. I used to use sets like spectre's eye, and other people used the Arena set. 90% of the ESO population probably doesn't even know those are sets anymore.

I don't understand these conclusions about no CP that people have. The only thing that happened from removing CP was that perma-tank builds like severene disappeared. I actually didn't even see that person the whole week they probably just took a vacation until CP came back. My conclusions were that stam was still really, really good solo/small scale, magicka still great for group play, my heavy armor build worked perfectly fine with zero changes made, and when you got zerged down you have zero chance of escaping the zerg anymore unless you happen to play a specific class. It's literally the same exact game except that there's even less build diversity.

QahnaarinDynar · March 2017

Looks like ZoS wants to see a large exodus of ESO players. If so this is the best way to make a lot of people quit, but I guess I'll just have to find a way around it. After all... I still want to make the whiners whine since they're most likely the only reason stupid changes like this are being brought about. Especially people from the non-cp campaigns in pvp who just can't keep it in their pants instead of waving it about where it's not wanted.

Darkonflare15 · March 2017

So hmm nerf to regen and cost reduction in CP trees. This probably not the only changed they have done. They could of changed the armor passives and weapon base passives and class specific base resource skills. Not going outrage over such minimal amounts of info. Have to see the big picture first.

Derra · March 2017

Takllin wrote: »

Malibulove wrote: »

Cost reduction and Recovery CP passives were dumb to begin with.

I remember back towards launch when recovery actually mattered as a stat. The game wasn't perfect but it wasn't the end of the world either, when you needed to spec recovery on Gear/Glyphs and actually sacrifice raw stats or damage to obtain it.

I say more power to ZOS for doing this, if the no CP week taught me anything it was that many players are snowflakes who use CP as a crutch to peddle weak builds. If those builds fail as a result of a handful of CP changes, who cares?

Real pvpers will adapt, move on, and be effective regardless of whatever passives CP gives.

This is not true. What was done when the game launched was gold all your gear so you're instantly at the soft cap for damage without even trying, then wear sets like seducer/warlock/syrabane and cost reduction glyphs that bypass the soft cap system. No one specced for damage because you didn't have to. No one specced for regen because it was inefficient. I used to use sets like spectre's eye, and other people used the Arena set. 90% of the ESO population probably doesn't even know those are sets anymore.

I don't understand these conclusions about no CP that people have. The only thing that happened from removing CP was that perma-tank builds like severene disappeared. I actually didn't even see that person the whole week they probably just took a vacation until CP came back. My conclusions were that stam was still really, really good solo/small scale, magicka still great for group play, my heavy armor build worked perfectly fine with zero changes made, and when you got zerged down you have zero chance of escaping the zerg anymore unless you happen to play a specific class. It's literally the same exact game except that there's even less build diversity.

Amen.

But our wise balance gods at zos don´t realise blocking is the problem - not regeneration.
I can kill any reg build just fine.
It´s blockbuilds which you can´t kill that make pvp unfun.

josh.lackey_ESO · March 2017

It's hard to discuss the value of regen and cost reduction without knowing what is going on with the base cost of abilities.

Before One Tamriel, the base cost for abilities scaled up with every level and vet rank. Now they are a flat value for everyone, and are reduced as you add CP into cost reduction. (This began with changes to battle level that happened back in Orisinium, but that's another discussion.)

You can still see look at the formulas for former base costs using the excellent UESP EsoSkills tool. Also see here.

As you can see, the current base costs at cp160 (formerly known as VR16) were increased by 29% across the board over the level 50 base costs.

So the ability base costs were already increased to counterbalance the introduction of cost-reduction and regen passives. Everyone who is talking about sustain being too easy is overlooking that fact. I mentioned this in the discussion of no cp campaigns recently, but it seems relevant here as well.

With the removal of Veteran Ranks, there is no more VR16. We are all simply Level 50. The "removal" of vet ranks was done in such a way that 10cp = 1 VR up to 160cp. It made converting the systems easy, as there really are still vet ranks, they're just baked into the CP system.

What we could be seeing is the removal of the final vestiges (pun intended) of the VR system. A lot of people have been dreading the possibility of gear cap increase. Right now the cp cap can be raised without affecting gear, since gear stops at cp160 (aka VR16). But this really doesn't make any sense in context of a VR-less CP system.

Maybe with Morrowind, gear (and food, and everything else) will scale to CP cap, allowing you to get more recovery that way. This would be a dreadful situation unless there were some system added to upgrade existing gear to the new cap. But assuming we don't have to farm all new gear, I actually think full scaling and remove of the old VR16 cap would make sense. And that kind of change would require reworking those regen passives.

The base recovery values and possible changes to gear sets are also factors. Right now, base recovery is 514. The formula is based only on level, and does not take into account CP rank. If base recovery scaled up with CP in a 10-to-1 vet rank style, base recovery would be 1100 at cp630.

mook-eb16_ESO · March 2017

what were poisons for if they were not for this?