I heard you liked your resource pools ? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

NBrookus

Derra wrote: »

But our wise balance gods at zos don´t realise blocking is the problem - not regeneration.
I can kill any reg build just fine.
It´s blockbuilds which you can´t kill that make pvp unfun.

So this is a nerf mDK thread now?

I don't have strong shields, burst, mobility, the stam to be a dodge monkey or an execute to finish a player before they ward/heal/dodge/streak unless I have an ult up, which is also my primary source of sustain. And I have to eat extra damage as a vamp, because Mist Form is a requirement. How else does an mDK -- who already has zero build-in magicka cost reduction -- mitigate damage?

I think some people believe in the "tank meta" more than it actually exists. My templar running 11k resists and no reactive/Malubeth got accused of being a useless tank the other day because I could keep my team alive under what was fairly poor damage pressure.

Nor do we need to nerf PVE tanks, who pretty much HAVE to permablock in end game content, especially if -- as this suggests -- DPS numbers will come down and fights will be longer.

Mojomonkeyman

I feel buffed.

Derra

NBrookus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

But our wise balance gods at zos don´t realise blocking is the problem - not regeneration.
I can kill any reg build just fine.
It´s blockbuilds which you can´t kill that make pvp unfun.

So this is a nerf mDK thread now?

I don't have strong shields, burst, mobility, the stam to be a dodge monkey or an execute to finish a player before they ward/heal/dodge/streak unless I have an ult up, which is also my primary source of sustain. And I have to eat extra damage as a vamp, because Mist Form is a requirement. How else does an mDK -- who already has zero build-in magicka cost reduction -- mitigate damage?

I think some people believe in the "tank meta" more than it actually exists. My templar running 11k resists and no reactive/Malubeth got accused of being a useless tank the other day because I could keep my team alive under what was fairly poor damage pressure.

Nor do we need to nerf PVE tanks, who pretty much HAVE to permablock in end game content, especially if -- as this suggests -- DPS numbers will come down and fights will be longer.

I´m just saying permablocking (with block in my opinion being the strongest defense of all, while also the easiest to use - yes even easier than shields) needs adjustments before sustain builds do.

I did not have DKs in mind btw. There are very few on EU. Templars however...

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I feel buffed.

Heavyarmor build with the ability to convert secondary resource into primary - well ofc you do

NBrookus

Derra wrote: »

I did not have DKs in mind btw. There are very few on EU. Templars however...

There's a reason for that. Even the glut of re-rollers on NA pretty much vanished when they found out a 5% buff to one skill and finally getting a reliable heal didn't make them OP and the class still suffers from old passives that no longer function well.

I'm actually in favor of nerfing sustain because so many builds can run zero sustain and give up nothing. I just don't think this is the way to do it, and hope there are other changes at play. Because it's gonna hit mDKs hard, since they already have to invest heavily in regen and cost reduction and other classes largely do not have to give up anything for that.

HoloYoitsu

Takllin

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

This except they forgot they made it possible for certain classes to sustain indefinitely without regen anyway thereby defeating the entire purpose of these "balance" changes.

Xsorus

I don't know, one of the things I liked about no CP was that resource actually mattered, you could run out of them while right now you can't.

I mean i've watched DK's on CP server basically just mistform around never running out of Magicka at all, while on no CP they couldn't do this.

Izaki

Unless someone really decides to waste 50+ points into this star instead of cost reduction, this CP star will be useless. 10% for 50 points spend isn't that huge. So if you were to put less than that, the debuff would be barely noticeable.

Derra

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Unless someone really decides to waste 50+ points into this star instead of cost reduction, this CP star will be useless. 10% for 50 points spend isn't that huge. So if you were to put less than that, the debuff would be barely noticeable.

The star replaces cost reduction.

Patouf

DHale wrote: »

So tired of ZOS changing stuff that doesn't need changed and not fix the thousand things that need fixing like grouping tool or lag or any number of things.

Can ZoS put this sentance on their desktop screens ?

Takllin

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Unless someone really decides to waste 50+ points into this star instead of cost reduction, this CP star will be useless. 10% for 50 points spend isn't that huge. So if you were to put less than that, the debuff would be barely noticeable.

The star replaces cost reduction.

Exactly. You probably just put 50 in this and 50 in tumbling or block cost reduction now since you have the free points

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know, one of the things I liked about no CP was that resource actually mattered, you could run out of them while right now you can't.

I mean i've watched DK's on CP server basically just mistform around never running out of Magicka at all, while on no CP they couldn't do this.

CP has nothing to do with mist forming forever though.

HoloYoitsu

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know, one of the things I liked about no CP was that resource actually mattered, you could run out of them while right now you can't.

I mean i've watched DK's on CP server basically just mistform around never running out of Magicka at all, while on no CP they couldn't do this.

I certainly enjoyed no CP week because knowing how to sustain actually mattered, and you could tell the difference between ppl who knew how vs the potatoes that never played before 1.6 and consequently never learned how to pace themselves; and everyone I smallman with feels the same.

The problem however, with removing just sustain from the CP system is that all of the dmg boosting crap is still in place. With these changes, damage is still hitting just as hard, but defense becomes less sustainable.

This just makes fighting outnumbered even harder and encourages ppl to never leave the faction stack.

Also, look specifically at how bolt escape is going to be double hit by both lack of reduce cost and lowering of regen, while dodge roll is only losing out on the regen side. A competent developer would go back and readjust the cost penalty on bolt escape to compensate, but let's not kid ourselves that Wrobel will do that.

Xsorus

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I don't know, one of the things I liked about no CP was that resource actually mattered, you could run out of them while right now you can't.

I mean i've watched DK's on CP server basically just mistform around never running out of Magicka at all, while on no CP they couldn't do this.

I certainly enjoyed no CP week because knowing how to sustain actually mattered, and you could tell the difference between ppl who knew how vs the potatoes that never played before 1.6 and consequently never learned how to pace themselves; and everyone I smallman with feels the same.

The problem however, with removing just sustain from the CP system is that all of the dmg boosting crap is still in place. With these changes, damage is still hitting just as hard, but defense becomes less sustainable.

This just makes fighting outnumbered even harder and encourages ppl to never leave the faction stack.

Also, look specifically at how bolt escape is going to be double hit by both lack of reduce cost and lowering of regen, while dodge roll is only losing out on the regen side. A competent developer would go back and readjust the cost penalty on bolt escape to compensate, but let's not kid ourselves that Wrobel will do that.

I mean i'm hoping there is other balance changes as well.

But I can understand why they're scaling back on perma resources, because the game is simply more fun that way.

In the end i may just go to non cp, haven't really decided yet.

loki547

I wouldn't read too much into this tbh. This is like alpha version of Morrowind so a lot can and will change between now and June. Remember Bone Wall going off stamina? Yea.

Takllin

loki547 wrote: »

I wouldn't read too much into this tbh. This is like alpha version of Morrowind so a lot can and will change between now and June. Remember Bone Wall going off stamina? Yea.

They had 1.5 months of homestead PTS and how many things made it through? Like the streak bug. We have like a little less than double that time before Morrowind comes out, and they'll be taking our feedback into consideration for half of that time maybe? Once ZOS make their decisions they pretty much don't change their minds. What you see now is what you're going to get regarding the CP stars because it's the direction they want the game to go. The players don't make this game, and while they look for feedback the devs follow that line of thought entirely. They're going to make the game they want regardless of what any amount of players want.

The bone shield change is a special case that doesn't apply to anything else. They don't change an ability back like that even once a year, and they have plenty of chances to do so with all of the legitimate gripes players have about certain skills/changes.

Joy_Division

blabafat wrote: »

Here we go, let's buff the zergs!

Every patch!

IxSTALKERxI

The concept of this tree is terrible as it benefits players with greater numbers just like poisons.

That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think I'd still manage fine. I personally wouldn't be putting CP into that star, but it will hurt a little being run down by a number of players spamming light attacks with points in the tree. I hope they rethink that star before implementing it, it's not the direction the game should go in.

The other CP changes are gonna have a much bigger impact and gonna be the game changes (no cost reduction, vigor healing crit, break free / dodge roll requiring more cp). Will be interesting to see how this impacts gameplay.

Joy_Division

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

The concept of this tree is terrible as it benefits players with greater numbers just like poisons.

That being said, I don't think it's the end of the world. I think I'd still manage fine. I personally wouldn't be putting CP into that star, but it will hurt a little being run down by a number of players spamming light attacks with points in the tree. I hope they rethink that star before implementing it, it's not the direction the game should go in.

The other CP changes are gonna have a much bigger impact and gonna be the game changes (no cost reduction, vigor healing crit, break free / dodge roll requiring more cp). Will be interesting to see how this impacts gameplay.

Can someone please link these Pax preview stuff? I haven't been following it.

IxSTALKERxI

Joy_Division wrote: »

Can someone please link these Pax preview stuff? I haven't been following it.

The 3 main pieces of info have been shared on the forums. Here are the links so you don't have to go looking for them.


CP changes:

Kamatsu wrote: »

Information shown in these images (not my info) from PAX East: https://imgur.com/a/KS9mP#rBB48CB

Warden Skill lines:

Smepic wrote: »

tooltips of the Warden skills and passives

Battlegrounds gameplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygEoaTCEIjo

Rickter

I scrolled through the 4 pages of this thread and Warlord is still around but its completely different. not sure if it was mentioned as i was skimming through, sorry if this is reposted info:

RinaldoGandolphi

I think it's good they are wanting to do away with the infinite sustain garbage, but I'm not sure they are going about it the right way.

Rickter

I'd just like to see a PvP change that doesnt hurt PvE. With changes like this, i'd rather see all pvp campaigns no CP and they leave/enhance the CP they already have

Psilent

ZOS now balancing between Battlegrounds, Cyrodiil, and PvE. Tall order for sure... going to wait until more information is released before I jump on the hyperbole train though.

Glamdring

Im intrested to hear from thoose that got invited to test morrowind and what feedback they gave ZoS about this change.

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

I think it's good they are wanting to do away with the infinite sustain garbage, but I'm not sure they are going about it the right way.

Yea I'm having trouble seeing how that solution was derived from the forum discussion/PvP playing experience.

Minno

code65536 wrote: »

The person who originally took that photo had also commented in the original source that he could no longer find the cost reduction stars and that this is what it had been replaced with. That is the far bigger concern, IMO.

Sucks for pve. You all should have jumped on the nCP bandwagon lol.

Rickter

Glamdring wrote: »

Im intrested to hear from thoose that got invited to test morrowind and what feedback they gave ZoS about this change.

Like, lets be real - I bet over 75% of the people "testing Morrowind" arent regular ESO players and they probably didnt notice a darn difference.

bg22

Time to break out my Viper and Red Mountain.

begemotz

technohic wrote: »

They probably think spamming abilities is causing lag in Cyrodiil and this won't affect PVE; so it will just make everyone cast less as it turns into a light and heavy attack meta. I'm willing to bet, they nerf dark deal, constitution, and magic steal in some way as well. If not; I probably would roll a red guard sorc

This is an interesting observation -- also why they were toying with no CP.. the underlying structure of the game is unstable, so build a meta around it that hides that fact.. .

timidobserver

I don't hate the CP changes as much as most people, but IMO, they just need split the combat system already. Many games successfully do it.