cradle of shadows

DRXHarbinger · March 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

^armor fracture......look at your health bar. Paying attention is all that needs to be done there.

I have never seen a visual queue for the effect in the time I've been doing that dungeon. If I had to guess, It's being blocked by Focus's visual effect on the healthbar. So, again, not good enough.

ZOS has a bad habit of visual represenation not being well done. Alot of people I know who recently did the Planar Inhib fight for the fight time had no idea she had a dot in the firstplace. I'd honestly say start making tooltips for some of the more obscure boss mechanics.

It's exactly the same in mol. You get a broken effect over your health bar??? Let me guess...pc player using add ons for different bars right?

No, I am PC but I dont use FTC, or anything else. I've still never seen it, and I'm tempted to do the fight just to see if I can get the effect to appear.

And no, it dosent. Vmol's mobs that -do- armorbreak have this nice little Symbol of the Ransack symbol with a blue backround, with the phrase "Your armor is broken!" In big font. I'd say the same needs to happen for COS, and possibly a few other dungeons. (I'd post a picture or video, but it's late and I cant be arsed.)

So basically you need to be told what to do is what you're saying? It does appear on the health bar just actually pay attention. 99% of the game have done cos just perfectly fine. You're just asking for indirect nerfs to make it so easy. I did it the other day without a tank. Just stop parking up relying on the healer and learn some self defense and awareness and do it. It's really not difficult. But in the interim I'd recommend the infamous pc add on that says "dodge now" seems like you need it.

Nice misinformation, you're on console aren't you? Please go que in 100 separate pugs when it's pledge day and see how many can complete it.

According to you 99% of players will be able to do it. Good luck.

Never had an issue on vet. Normal yes as you get mongs using 2h random picked up mixed set gear. Vet people have some kind of idea. So long as there are 2 people who know what they are doing and 2 cannon fodder I can happily do vet cradle.

Mazzatun is completely different for pugs. Those humans completely ignore anything you say with relation to the Behemoth boss mechanics. Last boss isn't a problem as you can dodge the Amberplasm / tripping out phase and let cannon fodder take it instead. Burn phase takes just 2 half decent dps to rek it.

But still vet cradle non hard mode is very easy. Doesn't require tanks or healers just self shields and heals is perfectly fine. Just watch the instakill and there will be no issues.
Never had an issue with it via group finder to date.

Ep1kMalware · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

Try looking up? Lmao

Olen_Mikko · March 2017

It is a L2P issue.

My first vet HM run took couple hours, but we completed & trained it with guildies, so i suggest you'll train with your fellow guildies to know the basics.

I have love/hate - relationship with this dungeon. It is challenging, but still doable with a little practice.

Probably not ideal for PUG groups that as first timers in it.

Lynx7386 · March 2017

Looking back at these replies:

-some of you really are elitist arse holes.

-it would seem that most of our issues came from two things: the tank wasn't dodging armor fracture (even though I told him several times to dodge after blocking the heavy, it was my first time in the dungeon but at least I had looked up a guide), and nobody had a purge. None of the guides I came across even mentioned purge,so it wasn't something I thought to look for. We had no templar and, sorry, but not everyone has any inclination to deal with the shatfest that is pvp in this game.

-we had no problems with the falling spike/don't move mechanic, the one shots were coming in because the tank was constantly dying.

-no amount of dodging seemed to save us from the drain orbs. It seems you literally can't do this boss without purge. Mechanics like that are not fun or challenging, they only serve to hold back groups that lack a particular ability. If purge is going to be so necessary for zos' dungeon mechanics, it should be part of the resto staff spell kit.

Needless to say, I won't be bothering with this particular dungeon again for some time. It didn't help that I was already pissed off before even joining the group because I had just gotten through struggling with a vet fungal grotto 2 group where the cp121 tank couldn't position bosses and literally did nothing but spam chains, and the two dps (I was healing that run) had 15k health and were apparently colorblind to red circles.

Rickter · March 2017

im a little disheartened by the amount of "just l2p" im seeing in this thread. yeah maybe the OP could have conveyed his frustratons better but come on people. CoS is mechanic heavy. the OP may have been stuck in groups of PUGs and not have the guidance patience or coordination needed to get through the dungeon. I applaud the people posting mechanic explanation videos for the OP - thats what he needs not people saying "this dungeon is not a problem for everyone else"

its a tough dungeon for people unfamiliar with the dungeon. not everyone is pve elite. some people want to experience the content and not be prepared.

my advice to the OP: sift through the accusatory and impatient garbage comments and take the truly constructive ones, and dont give up. Keep queueing or join a guild that will help you. but dont give up, you wont catch the bus if you dont go to the bus stop.

DMuehlhausen · March 2017

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

Okay, strategy:

So you don't lose magicka, stamina or health - Avoid the floating red, green and blue balls all over the boss area fight, they drain your resources.

Ultimate - Pop your ultimates at the START of the fight, she is going to pick one of you at random and drain it, so just pop it at the start of the fight and whenever you can.

Spikes - There is a phase where Velidreth will say "Don't move a muscle". This literally means DON'T MOVE A MUSCLE. Stand still, you will see a green circle under your feet meaning you're safe. RIGHT after the green circle disappears, you will see dirt coming up from under your feet. The VERY SPLIT second you see the dirt, you need to dodge roll out of the way to avoid the spike.

I'm sorry, but it really is a l2p issue =/ Not trying to troll either.

The problem with that "Don't move a muscle" part is if the server or client lags even the slightest you're dead. This is my problem. I see the green circle and will dodge roll as soon as the ground starts to move, but due that being a split second behind the server sometimes I'm dead. Fights should never have mechanics that are needing that quick of response due to lag issues some people will have. It should be a % of life or a chance to survive. So maybe sure right after she drops she hits the person that has almost no life, but there was a chance maybe for the player or healer to save them.

Lord_Eomer · March 2017

Most people are just faking L2P stuff, i am sure they even have not done Vet COA

Ghost-Shot · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

Its literally the definition of an l2p issue, once you learn, you will be fine. Though I will agree on poor mechanics design, there are like 3 interesting instance mechanics in this entire game lol.

kylewwefan · March 2017

I see your also on PS4 NA. Look me up later and we can get through there. PSN kylewwefan

I have a few really cool casual guilds also if you need one.

visionality · March 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Case in point, the people who intend to shame anyone who dares call this a bad piece of content, despite the fact that Velindreth's idea of difficulty is resource drain balls, massive adds and armorbreaks that are never communicated, and Valon Dreth's continual glitchy movement.

I'm not the guy to call this stuff out, but honestly it's spelled Velidreth.... not Velindreth, Valon Dreth, etc.

When you get the name of the boss this incorrect and complain about difficulty and horrible design, it tells me you barely tried the dungeon at all and are not happy about remotely difficult mechanics.

OMG! Thanks for your comment, @Vaoh, I was seriously wrecking my head on who Valon Dreth might be and how I managed to constantly miss him in CoS.

Also want to insert a little add for my guide for proper dungeon behaviour, which was - I have to admit - a bit inspired by this threadl
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/327767/the-secret-dungeon-etiquette-with-a-wink

visionality · March 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

The problem with that "Don't move a muscle" part is if the server or client lags even the slightest you're dead. This is my problem. I see the green circle and will dodge roll as soon as the ground starts to move, but due that being a split second behind the server sometimes I'm dead. Fights should never have mechanics that are needing that quick of response due to lag issues some people will have. It should be a % of life or a chance to survive. So maybe sure right after she drops she hits the person that has almost no life, but there was a chance maybe for the player or healer to save them.

Actually its way easier and you get a way earlier warning if you look at Velidreth instead of at your feet. If she starts to move down from the ceiling , dodgeroll and all is fine. No need for split second reactions, no problems with latency.

Voxicity · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Looking back at these replies:

-some of you really are elitist arse holes.

''Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired''

What goes around comes around

Lynx7386 · March 2017

kylewwefan wrote: »

I see your also on PS4 NA. Look me up later and we can get through there. PSN kylewwefan

I have a few really cool casual guilds also if you need one.

Thanks, think I might have one guild spot available.

raglau · March 2017

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

Okay, strategy:

So you don't lose magicka, stamina or health - Avoid the floating red, green and blue balls all over the boss area fight, they drain your resources.

Ultimate - Pop your ultimates at the START of the fight, she is going to pick one of you at random and drain it, so just pop it at the start of the fight and whenever you can.

Spikes - There is a phase where Velidreth will say "Don't move a muscle". This literally means DON'T MOVE A MUSCLE. Stand still, you will see a green circle under your feet meaning you're safe. RIGHT after the green circle disappears, you will see dirt coming up from under your feet. The VERY SPLIT second you see the dirt, you need to dodge roll out of the way to avoid the spike.

I'm sorry, but it really is a l2p issue =/ Not trying to troll either.

The problem with that "Don't move a muscle" part is if the server or client lags even the slightest you're dead. This is my problem. I see the green circle and will dodge roll as soon as the ground starts to move, but due that being a split second behind the server sometimes I'm dead. Fights should never have mechanics that are needing that quick of response due to lag issues some people will have. It should be a % of life or a chance to survive. So maybe sure right after she drops she hits the person that has almost no life, but there was a chance maybe for the player or healer to save them.

I simply watch her on the ceiling. She twitches once as a false alarm, then she starts to scuttle, at which point you make your move.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

People really dont like mechanics it seems. Every time a dungeon is introduced where you have to actually pay attention, the forums lose their minds.

Qbiken · March 2017

Wait until you try to finish Ruins of Mazzatun for the first time.....boy you´ll get mad

Isellskooma · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

LUL it's a L2P I two manned it.

Palidon · March 2017

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

Honestly though, you can't come on a forum and complain about a dungeon when everybody else has no problem running it within 20-30 mins. You need to learn mechanics properly and understand the dungeon to it's fullest. A 3 hour run sounds like it was your first attempt there. You've barely earned the right to be even slightly pissy at the dungeon.

Once you learn the mechanics properly you can run it under 30 mins easily, assuming you and your group are fully geared.

You just answered why this pledge is easy. You have three other players holding your hand and they all know the mechanics of every boss and what is behind the next door or around the corner. You call that a challenge. I got to laugh. Then you turn around a slam a player who is having a hard time with the delve. Its players like you who make me sick. Billy bad asses who think they are great because their game play evolves around Ole McDonalds Little Farm game play. Bet you even play that song while doing pledges. There should be a solo option to every undaunted four man delve. I for one like to do all content solo and would never slam another player because he or she is having a hard time with the content.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2017

People saying this dungeon is easy, are either trolling or have ego issues. It is absolutely not easy, in fact IMO Velidreth on HM is the toughest 4-man fight in the game. It is, however, perfectly doable if you have reasonable DPS and FOLLOW MECHANICS. Do I expect a random 4-man pug run to clear HM? No I do not. I wouldnt expect a pickup trial group to clear VMOL either. The thing is, that is perfectly okay with me. This game needs a wide range of difficulty, and something is always going to be on top or the hardest.

If there wasnt content that took skill, planning, effort, and proper group coordination to complete, you would see a lot of people leave this game.

Palidon wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

Honestly though, you can't come on a forum and complain about a dungeon when everybody else has no problem running it within 20-30 mins. You need to learn mechanics properly and understand the dungeon to it's fullest. A 3 hour run sounds like it was your first attempt there. You've barely earned the right to be even slightly pissy at the dungeon.

Once you learn the mechanics properly you can run it under 30 mins easily, assuming you and your group are fully geared.

There should be a solo option to every undaunted four man delve. I for one like to do all content solo and would never slam another player because he or she is having a hard time with the content.

Sorry this is an MMO. You are asking for the devs to divert resources to do a complete redesign of the whole game because you want to play a multiplayer game by yourself. Rather selfish IMO.

Ghost-Shot · March 2017

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

People saying this dungeon is easy, are either trolling or have ego issues. It is absolutely not easy, in fact IMO Velidreth on HM is the toughest 4-man fight in the game. It is, however, perfectly doable if you have reasonable DPS and FOLLOW MECHANICS. Do I expect a random 4-man pug run to clear HM? No I do not. I wouldnt expect a pickup trial group to clear VMOL either. The thing is, that is perfectly okay with me. This game needs a wide range of difficulty, and something is always going to be on top or the hardest.

If there wasnt content that took skill, planning, effort, and proper group coordination to complete, you would see a lot of people leave this game.

Palidon wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

Honestly though, you can't come on a forum and complain about a dungeon when everybody else has no problem running it within 20-30 mins. You need to learn mechanics properly and understand the dungeon to it's fullest. A 3 hour run sounds like it was your first attempt there. You've barely earned the right to be even slightly pissy at the dungeon.

Once you learn the mechanics properly you can run it under 30 mins easily, assuming you and your group are fully geared.

There should be a solo option to every undaunted four man delve. I for one like to do all content solo and would never slam another player because he or she is having a hard time with the content.

Sorry this is an MMO. You are asking for the devs to divert resources to do a complete redesign of the whole game because you want to play a multiplayer game by yourself. Rather selfish IMO.

Bear you are arguing with someone who doesn't understand the difference between a delve and a dungeon, save your self the effort and walk away. Or better yet find them in game and follow them around with that dope Dro m'Athra Destroyer title they will never have.

xXMichonneXx · March 2017

This dungeon isn't easy in any way shape or form, but there are many people who are awesome at learning and conquering the dungeon mechanics. These people can make it look like a hot knife going thru butter. I suck at it, but I have a guildie who can run it blindfolded. He and his healer buddy can carry even the worst players through it like its a normal pledge dungeon. Shadows is definitely doable, not broken, not crazy. Get with a good group who is willing to spend time to either teach you or learn it with you.

rotaugen454 · March 2017

I think it was the OP calling for someone to be fired that set off the criticism. Hard dungeon, yes. Impossible, no. I've pugged Vet mode with randoms who were below 300 CP. Why make every group dungeon a cakewalk like Fungal Grotto I?

Danksta · March 2017

Wrecking_Blow_Spam wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

Honestly though, you can't come on a forum and complain about a dungeon when everybody else has no problem running it within 20-30 mins. You need to learn mechanics properly and understand the dungeon to it's fullest. A 3 hour run sounds like it was your first attempt there. You've barely earned the right to be even slightly pissy at the dungeon.

Once you learn the mechanics properly you can run it under 30 mins easily, assuming you and your group are fully geared.

Ok tough guy if it's so easy why don't you go solo it then?

It's not easy so stop being so high and mighty, you've gotta consider that not everyone has BiS gear with a really solid 4 man group.

But hey you said it's easy so go solo it on let's say a stamina nightblade, I mean you'll have no problems cos it's so easy.
Good luck

You do realize someone has soloed vCoS, right?

Tan9oSuccka · March 2017

Myyth wrote: »

oh yes the thrills and chills of cradle of shadows!

For your maximum enjoyment, make sure you get a level 10 tank and healer rockin zero CP when you use the group finder. Guaranteed hours and hours of fun!
But wait....theres more!
You might even get a 1000G+ repair bill too!

Agreed. I don't do any of the DLC Vet's any more.

Randoms are bad enough on the base Vet dungeons.

O_LYKOS · March 2017

I would usually agree with you on this one. The amount of times of done normal and it's been a pain in the ass is unreal.

I've tried a couple time on vet and failed miserably.

Today, only an hour ago i went on my healer. Joined vet random daily group finder for the xp. Got Cradle.

At first i was a bit "oh ffs". But the group was pretty cool and the two dps were 600. We flew through it. Not a singl ereset on any part.

Annnnnnnd like always when i do the hard ones and finnally come through and get it done, i got a training helmet! FML

Voxicity · March 2017

O_LYKOS wrote: »

I would usually agree with you on this one. The amount of times of done normal and it's been a pain in the ass is unreal.

I've tried a couple time on vet and failed miserably.

Today, only an hour ago i went on my healer. Joined vet random daily group finder for the xp. Got Cradle.

At first i was a bit "oh ffs". But the group was pretty cool and the two dps were 600. We flew through it. Not a singl ereset on any part.

Annnnnnnd like always when i do the hard ones and finnally come through and get it done, i got a training helmet! FML

Get carried fam

Cure4theEn3my14 · March 2017

Lynx7386 wrote: »

mrfrontman wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Whoever designed this dungeon needs to get fired. Literally the worst thing I have ever wasted 3 hours on in this game.

Cradle of Shadows is easy, even on hard mode.

l2p issues?

So tell me, what's your strategy in a fight where you constantly lose all magicka, stamina, and ultimate, and randomly take 40k damage spikes?

Learn to play my arse. This isn't a l2p issue, it's a zos doesn't know frak all about how to design interesting boss mechanics so get just give you a giant middle finger.

Healer needs to be purging either with PvP skill or you need to be using synergy if you get hit by orbs. Use your Ults on cooldown so she doesn't steal it. Don't stand in red, learn mechanics, stay out of bosses cleave, don't move when she says don't move, dodge roll spikes. Also if you need to resurrect someone, interrupt the boss because she'll interrupt if you don't.

Rataroto · March 2017

give me your @name so I can link you my Craddle skin

L2P mate

Magdalina · March 2017

I like it. If you're having issues, you may want to run it on normal and you may want to avoid pugging it.

You'd also get much more out of this thread if you said specifically what was giving you issues and asked for tips on how to deal with it rather than bash a well designed piece of content that a lot of people like. I will admit I think ZOS needs to rely on rng less. Both SotH dungeons have too much of it, which door is open, which groupmember gets the statue...it's silly when same fight can become 5 times harder(though not impossible) just because rng gods didn't smile upon you this time.

I've actually started liking the maze

It's kind of a neat mechanic apart from the rng. I mean, the fact that it's different every time kinda makes it more exciting but at the same time the difficulty of it depending on rng is kinda silly.
I'm like one the most topographically challenged person on the planet, I've managed to end up in exact opposite direction even while using a map irl before xD So it's totally possible to do even without sense of direction. After many times of looking on the map I realized that it's best (well for me at least) to simply choose one of the side tunnels - once in the catacombs you end up in the central room from which you can go to one of the 3 or 4 possibly open doors, say 1 2 3 4. I go to either 1 or 4 and then if it's closed I simply run through all of them in order, 1, then 2, then 3, then 4. That way I don't waste any time running back and forth in case first door I chose is closed and it's pretty straightforward really, just gotta keep checking with the map. Purify is your big friend in there because everything snares you, cc are your second best friend(cc the ads and run/dodge through, don't waste time fighting them, especially hoarvor, they'll wreck you), and make sure you stay in the light or if you are the person with the light, make sure you haven't left your groupmate alone in the dark.

The orbs are annoying but you don't have to absorb all of them. Afaik she also spawns more orbs based on the quantity of ulti she gobbles up, so slot your cheapest ulti and drop it whenever possible. As a tank I just use s&b ulti, it's crazy good for managing stamina even if I miss a green orb and costs <100. She'll still grab someone - the person with the highest ultimate - but don't feed her more than you have to, she's fat enough already

The spike mechanic is really easy, she'll climb to the ceiling at some point - it's really hard to miss, she physically will be up there. Don't move and watch her, soon as she starts dropping down, dodge. She falls down pretty slowly so you actually have like full 1-2 seconds to dodge there, it's plenty of time. That's the only really oneshot mechanic there, her heavy attack(Corpulence) hurts but it follows taunt, is dodgeable and on my blazeplar it doesn't even oneshot me if I don't block it at full health(and that's vet hm. It does get me to like 3k health out of 43k though so don't do that lol).

Tl;dr - this fight has quite a lot of mechanics but none of them are impossible, especially if you aren't doing them on vet hm.

On a side note, what's wrong with first dungeon run taking 3 hours, given you aren't familiar with the mechanics(which it seems like none of you were)? I remember my first ever vet dungeon taking potato us like 4 hours(and 2 failed tries about as long before that), the lesson from that was we needed to become less potato, we were stoked we could do it in the end though. My first CoH run was about as long. It felt like a real accomplishment. I loved it, ran it 385973291 times after that til I could pretty much no death it with closed eyes(and that's back when no death there actually meant something). My first CoA run was fast and easy but that was because 3 very op experienced players carried me through it - with them explaining all the mechanics and me doing my best to follow. My only conclusion from the 4 hours tries has been that I need to learn the place better and improve my gameplay in order to overcome the challenge, why does everyone seems to feel the need to scream "nerf it" instead?

Lynx7386 · March 2017

what's wrong with first dungeon run taking 3 hours

It's a dungeon. I have a family to take care of, a more than full time job, and priorities outside of a video game that have to be adressed.

When I get home from work and hop into the pos activity finder, I'm expecting 30 minutes to an hour for a run, regardless of group participants.

Make the trials/raids 3 hours if you have players looking to spend an entire night doing one thing. I just don't have time for it. Every other mmo I've played has followed that model: small group content takes under an hour on average once started. Large group content can take 3-5 hours.

The system is whack in this game though. I've done obsidian sanctum in less than an hour, but have dungeons that take 2-3 for no real reason.