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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
51 crown crates = zero apex rewards
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Kendo12✭✭✭All the gambling talk makes me think no one in here really gambles. You get 4 to 5 items every time you open a crate. That's not a gamble. This is more akin to buying a Magic: the Gathering booster pack and hoping for a rare card.
Exactly. It's FUN to open mtg packs..and I have FUN opening crown crates too. I am not being "ripped off" at all, as so many people seem to think I am lol.
Lmao... Some people..0 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem in this thread and ones like it are people are bouncing between gambling as the act of getting something uncertain and the the act of coming up with a loss. They aren't to be used interchangeably to fit the criteria of the discussion though. Unethical gambling practices are tied to gambling laws in the States and are directly relating to monetary losses. Mystery packs are not forms of gambling in any state.
You are getting value on each crate. Even with the bare bones items. The potions, exp scrolls, etc, all equal to a value over 400 crowns. When you buy in, you have to look at the common drops and ask if they are worth it for you. And unlike real forms of gambling or mystery pack purchases, ESO allows you to buy sell back items and get exactly what you want with enough gems.
Because you get value on each crate, there is no monetary loss associated with this.0 -
N0TPLAYER2✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Dexter wrote: »ChaosWotan wrote: »Used about $100 on the new crown crates, and basically got nothing. Only two non-apex mounts. Last time I got 3 apex mounts from the same numbers of crates, and several non-apex mounts. I know this is a gamble, and don't mind supporting ESO in any case, but a bit curious if the RNG is worse this time.
Still got enough crown gems to buy one apex mounts. I knew I would get enough gems to buy one such mount, so took this into consideration before playing the cards.
I am sure you have spent crowns but may have bought them during crown sales,
I got Senchie on my 41 crate!
At only $160! Lucky you!!
This is the problem right here. If they charge 22000 crowns (yes 22 thousand) for a mount, or $160, people would FLIP OUT
But when it's done this way, the addict feels like he "won" when in actuality he paid $160, when they should be priced st 2500 crowns tops - which is STILL $25. For a MOUNT
Think people, think!
Would you have traded 4 brand new video games for this? Because you did. Video games are now $48 thanks to Best Buy and amazon.Edited by N0TPLAYER2 on March 3, 2017 8:46PM6 -
PlaceboSoul✭✭✭The problem in this thread and ones like it are people are bouncing between gambling as the act of getting something uncertain and the the act of coming up with a loss. They aren't to be used interchangeably to fit the criteria of the discussion though. Unethical gambling practices are tied to gambling laws in the States and are directly relating to monetary losses. Mystery packs are not forms of gambling in any state.
You are getting value on each crate. Even with the bare bones items. The potions, exp scrolls, etc, all equal to a value over 400 crowns. When you buy in, you have to look at the common drops and ask if they are worth it for you. And unlike real forms of gambling or mystery pack purchases, ESO allows you to buy sell back items and get exactly what you want with enough gems.
Because you get value on each crate, there is no monetary loss associated with this.
But the fact is, most that are arguing the gambling point, are speaking to the definition of gambling, I don't think anyone is saying it's illegal, otherwise ZOS would have already been reported and charged.
Personally, I don't care about it being gambling, my opposition is different. I don't think I've seen anyone opposing the crates due to coming up with nothing though, it's a fact that you do get things from it, most are saying it's not worth it, that doesn't necessarily mean coming up empty, it just means low value.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
ChaosWotan✭✭✭✭✭I think nobody here is disagreeing about the view that paying 100 bucks for an apex mount is insane in a way. Personally I can afford to be insane, so I don't mind it that much, but the main problem is that it creates a more or less negative vibe in the game when the majority feels that it goes against their integrity and is an insult to their intelligence to buy 50 crown crates just to get a cool mount that should have been available by playing the game itself.
We can argue about the definition of gambling, but the fact is that we would not have wasted time on any of this if ESO had come up with a more reasonable = less expensive way of acquiring the apex mounts.
Edited by ChaosWotan on March 3, 2017 9:17PM1 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChaosWotan wrote: »We can argue about the definition of gambling, but the fact is that we would not have wasted time on any of this if ESO had come up with a more reasonable = less expensive model of acquiring the apex mounts.
Or just skipped coming out with ridiculous-looking mounts in the first place.0 -
ChaosWotan✭✭✭✭✭Some of the mounts look stupid, yes. The main reason I will not buy more crates after having used 400 gems on the one I liked the most.0
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AlMcFly✭✭✭✭✭
✭PlaceboSoul wrote: »PlaceboSoul wrote: »We are all so impressed that you are educated enough to use google, and post quotations.
You are correct, I ignored you for the rest of yesterday, and removed the ignore this morning. Despite my dislike of your tactics, I value all information, even yours.
It's only natural. People dislike having the words they use being picked apart because they want the freedom to say any kind of nonsense without being challenged.
Actually that isn't the problem. The problem is when people take things out of context. You are obviously intelligent, most probably educated, kudos to you. I also have a fairly apt intellect, my problem is when people do what you do though. Use their intellect and quote people out of context, then try to make them look stupid. It's disrespectful and a cheap trick, not good debate tactics as you think.
Good debate tactics would be presenting an argument, and then backing that argument with facts or supporting data. Often all I see you do is quote someone else, but only part of their statement, out of context, and then try to use it to make them look foolish.
I'll be honest, I don't like people like you, just on principle.
As a judge of what "good debate" is, you should already know that debators speak to certain points, and those points alone. Only RELEVANT info is necessary and you delete the unnecessary and irrelevant "fluff' information. I delete extraneous information that has no relevance, does not add anything at all to the argument you are portraying, and that I simply do not care to respond to. The fact that you are seeing me do this, and argue the deleted info is important for "context", flat-out shows me: A. You have no idea what the word "context" means. And B. You have never ever, clearly, participated in any formal debate competitions. If you have, it's clear you were not very good.
I am happy to continue showing exactly how inept and empty your words are, but I do not have the patience to teach you formal argumentation and debate. Nor do I want to. This whole thread consists of me refuting the arguments you and others are making, and you throwing your "feelings" back at me as if they are relavent or lend credence to your unsupported ideas. As for my "supporting evidence", I don't need supporting evidence to illustrate fallacious arguments and clear contradictions. Do you want me to link tutorials on logical fallacies? The things you say are nothing but empty ***.Edited by AlMcFly on March 3, 2017 9:36PM0 -
cjthibs✭✭✭✭✭
✭PlaceboSoul wrote: »PlaceboSoul wrote: »We are all so impressed that you are educated enough to use google, and post quotations.
You are correct, I ignored you for the rest of yesterday, and removed the ignore this morning. Despite my dislike of your tactics, I value all information, even yours.
It's only natural. People dislike having the words they use being picked apart because they want the freedom to say any kind of nonsense without being challenged.
Actually that isn't the problem. The problem is when people take things out of context. You are obviously intelligent, most probably educated, kudos to you. I also have a fairly apt intellect, my problem is when people do what you do though. Use their intellect and quote people out of context, then try to make them look stupid. It's disrespectful and a cheap trick, not good debate tactics as you think.
Good debate tactics would be presenting an argument, and then backing that argument with facts or supporting data. Often all I see you do is quote someone else, but only part of their statement, out of context, and then try to use it to make them look foolish.
I'll be honest, I don't like people like you, just on principle.
As a judge of what "good debate" is, you should already know that debators speak to certain points, and those points alone. Only RELEVANT info is necessary and you delete the unnecessary and irrelevant "fluff' information. I delet extraneous information that has no relevance and doea not add anything at all to the argument you are portraying. The fact that you are seeing me do this, and argue the deleted i fo is impprtant for "context", flat-out shows me: A. You have no idea what the word "context" means. And B. You have never ever, clearly, participated in any formal debate competitions.
I am happy to continue showing exactly how inept and empty your words are, but I do not have the pateience to teach you formal argumentation and debate. Nor do I want to. This whole thread consists of me refuting the arguments you and others are making, and you throwing your "feelings" back at me as if they are relavent or lend credence to your unsupported ideas. As for my "supporting evidence", I don't need supporting evidence to illustrate fallacious arguments. Do you want me to link tutorials on logical fallacies. The things you say are nothing but empty ***.
Actually, you refuted nothing.
You changed around my argument to make it easier for you to answer and then called me a liar without discussing what I actually said.
In fact, you ignored two words in my statement that changed the entire meaning of the sentence just so that you could answer it and feel as though you accomplished something.
Feel free to keep on spewing nonsense, but I'm fairly certain anyone who read that exchange considers you pretty disingenuous at this point.3 -
TheForseti✭✭✭Never gamble more than you're willing to lose. I have gotten ten of each type of crate. If I get something amazing, it's a pleasant surprise. If I get all trash (which I expect) I'm not upset.PC-NA | CP 1,400+ @The_Forseti1 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
✭
ZoS Beancounters: Hot damn! Luke Smith at Bungie was right! People will throw money at the screen! Make more, team. Make much, much more. Let's call the next set "Wild Hunt" and see how many more gullible gamers we can get.ChaosWotan wrote: »Used about $100 on the new crown crates, and basically got nothing.
Mike, sit down. We don't smoke the $100 bills until Friday.
4 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I said I wasn't gonna buy any since last time I got the 15 crate bundle and got a lot of hooey... but dangit if I didn't buy the 4 crate bundle as soon as it popped up! ugh!
But I got the Wild Hunt Guar mount.... so I guess I did okay.
And decided to quit while I was ahead, not gonna buy anymore! (til the next time I cave lol)
The Guar mount is my favorite! Grats!0 -
Hand_Bacon✭✭✭✭✭I think the Atro crates cost me over $200 before I got an Apex Mount. This time around one of the Apex was in the 3rd crate opened.
I received a lot of useful stuff along the way, both times, and understood the risks/reward before I tarted. No complaints.
The Guar mount is my favorite! Grats!
That's the one I got/wanted as well.
Edited by Hand_Bacon on March 3, 2017 9:48PM#AlmostGood@ESO0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭ChaosWotan wrote: »A hundred bucks on crown crates is not that much compared to how much other hobbies often cost.
Most hobbies give you a hundred bucks worth of something in return for your hundred bucks, even if it's something ephemeral like "fun". This game gives you nothing. I make enough of a good living that I could buy crown crates till the cows come home and not worry about it at all, but I would never do something so ridiculous as to buy even one. It's almost exactly the same thing as flushing a hundred bucks down the toilet.
That depends, have you recieved a value from playing, how much do you play etc. If the game gives you no entertainment why are you playing? I personally spend less on this game then say going to the bar every weekend. Me being the happy drunk that will buy drinks for everyone, easily $200 on a Saturday night.Stopnaggin wrote: »mrfrontman wrote: »PlaceboSoul wrote: »Maybe ZoS could doing a bothway system (Store & Ingame) or a system where u can transferring Gold into Crowns. There would be still people who pay for it, because they want them fast. Only a idea...
@PlaceboSoul
I understand your arguments but in a way it looks that u also do not know how the world turns. Zenimax is a Incorporated Company , so it's natural that their goal is profit (in best case high profit). When ESO doesn't make enough profit it will be abandoned. There is no way to run nowdays the game with only selling DLC's or Addons like in GW 1.
I think too that there should be also cosmetic stuff available ingame. I hope there will be a fair balance between Cosmetic stuff available Ingame/Store in future.
I know exactly how the world turns, I actually agree 100% with what you said. My issue isn't just the crown store, it's the fact ZOS keeps adding more money sinks to the game, real money sinks, beyond what they need to float the game. I agree they can't function on dlc and addons, but they don't, they have a monthly sub, it's not mandatory but it's there and there are a lot of people that have eso+. They sell the game, they sell the dlc, they now sell xpacs, AND they want to sell all of the aesthetics in a real money store and have real money gambling? It's just too much. That's where my issue lies. I do want ZOS to profit, and be successful with eso, I want them to pay their employees well and enjoy the fruits of their labors, but there is a point where being well fed turns to gluttony.
In the end, I just want the company that controls a game I love to be fair about it to the player, not even necessarily generous, just fair. Just like you just said too, I would just like to see some of that crown store loot available in game. There are a lot of games that use the in app purchase model, but a lot of them (I won't say most) also allow you to earn the currency for purchases in game. ZOS does not. There is one way to get crowns, and that's cash. Only one way to get aesthetics, and that is crowns. I just think the level of avarice is a bit too much. I realize this is how all companies run nowadays, but it's starting to seep deeper into gaming, and it is just abhorrent to me.
THIS!!!!DeusExMachina wrote: »I will never understand why people, of their own free will, overspend on things that have the potential to have little to no return, then feel the need to publicly complain about not getting exactly what they wanted in "x" amount of dollars as if it's somehow shocking.
If the community wants the crates gone, the community collectively will have to stop buying them, but that means taking responsibility for your own actions and their consequences, and I fear that is a dream far to lofty for the average MMO player nowadays.
You know, before hand that you are most likely gonna get screwed (they aren't effing gift boxes, they are rng crap boxes that we should all know by now are never ever skewed in the favor of the customer), don't act so pious and shocked when it happens. Or better yet, don't gamble if you cannot handle and/or afford losing it all.
AND THIS!!!
We need to work together if we want crown crates gone so we can buy cosmetics with straight crown purchases and in game farming
What if we don't want them gone?
Are you saying that you would prefer to pay some random value higher for a particular item? Maybe 3 or 4 or 5 times as much as it would be if you bought it outright?
Nope just saying I'm not against them. They don't have an effect on how I play or the money I spend. It really doesn't matter because the same people arguing against crates are the same people that lost their minds on 4500 crown elk.0 -
ThePonzzz✭✭✭✭✭
✭PlaceboSoul wrote: »The problem in this thread and ones like it are people are bouncing between gambling as the act of getting something uncertain and the the act of coming up with a loss. They aren't to be used interchangeably to fit the criteria of the discussion though. Unethical gambling practices are tied to gambling laws in the States and are directly relating to monetary losses. Mystery packs are not forms of gambling in any state.
You are getting value on each crate. Even with the bare bones items. The potions, exp scrolls, etc, all equal to a value over 400 crowns. When you buy in, you have to look at the common drops and ask if they are worth it for you. And unlike real forms of gambling or mystery pack purchases, ESO allows you to buy sell back items and get exactly what you want with enough gems.
Because you get value on each crate, there is no monetary loss associated with this.
But the fact is, most that are arguing the gambling point, are speaking to the definition of gambling, I don't think anyone is saying it's illegal, otherwise ZOS would have already been reported and charged.
Personally, I don't care about it being gambling, my opposition is different. I don't think I've seen anyone opposing the crates due to coming up with nothing though, it's a fact that you do get things from it, most are saying it's not worth it, that doesn't necessarily mean coming up empty, it just means low value.
Then they would say the same when buying a box of cereal and getting a mystery spoon inside of some random movie set. Because it would be the exact same thing. You wanted the pirate spoon but ended up getting the fairy spoon.Edited by ThePonzzz on March 3, 2017 10:24PM0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There are no mounts that cost more than the base game. (I mean, unless you got the base game extremely discounted and then bought that elk, I guess.) Even if you spend $100, get no apex mounts at all and end up spending the gems for that one apex mount you want, you're still getting a ton of other things in addition to the mount, some of which you might not like, but some of which you will absolutely love. You're not just spending $100 for a single mount, but that mount plus a large assortment of other mounts, costumes, pets and whatever. Really, it is a huge amount of loot for $100 worth of crates, even if you never get that one shiny mount that you really, really want.Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »A mount that costs more than the base game - disgustingly greedy behaviour.
Now, if someone doesn't care about pets and costumes and only wants one particular, single mount ... then it's a bad deal, obviously.
Edited by SydneyGrey on March 3, 2017 10:30PM0 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭PlaceboSoul wrote: »I love that people are acting like they are heroes to a cause buying crates. Actually ruining the game, but whatever makes you think you are awesome, we will see how awesome you feel when everything in game is a real money purchase and players start leaving. When the game dies, it won't be with a death gurgle, it will be with the rallying cry of morons, "more crates!"
And to think people who resort to insting others and accusing them of ruining a game. Great way to garner support for your cause. Yeah because people buying things is what makes a game go downhill. All because of us right? Do yourself a favor and leave so you won't have to witness the carnage of a video game dieing. And please feel free to blame me, if it helps you feel better. #moronsunite.1 -
Stopnaggin✭✭✭✭✭
✭DRXHarbinger wrote: »Stopnaggin wrote: »mrfrontman wrote: »PlaceboSoul wrote: »Maybe ZoS could doing a bothway system (Store & Ingame) or a system where u can transferring Gold into Crowns. There would be still people who pay for it, because they want them fast. Only a idea...
@PlaceboSoul
I understand your arguments but in a way it looks that u also do not know how the world turns. Zenimax is a Incorporated Company , so it's natural that their goal is profit (in best case high profit). When ESO doesn't make enough profit it will be abandoned. There is no way to run nowdays the game with only selling DLC's or Addons like in GW 1.
I think too that there should be also cosmetic stuff available ingame. I hope there will be a fair balance between Cosmetic stuff available Ingame/Store in future.
I know exactly how the world turns, I actually agree 100% with what you said. My issue isn't just the crown store, it's the fact ZOS keeps adding more money sinks to the game, real money sinks, beyond what they need to float the game. I agree they can't function on dlc and addons, but they don't, they have a monthly sub, it's not mandatory but it's there and there are a lot of people that have eso+. They sell the game, they sell the dlc, they now sell xpacs, AND they want to sell all of the aesthetics in a real money store and have real money gambling? It's just too much. That's where my issue lies. I do want ZOS to profit, and be successful with eso, I want them to pay their employees well and enjoy the fruits of their labors, but there is a point where being well fed turns to gluttony.
In the end, I just want the company that controls a game I love to be fair about it to the player, not even necessarily generous, just fair. Just like you just said too, I would just like to see some of that crown store loot available in game. There are a lot of games that use the in app purchase model, but a lot of them (I won't say most) also allow you to earn the currency for purchases in game. ZOS does not. There is one way to get crowns, and that's cash. Only one way to get aesthetics, and that is crowns. I just think the level of avarice is a bit too much. I realize this is how all companies run nowadays, but it's starting to seep deeper into gaming, and it is just abhorrent to me.
THIS!!!!DeusExMachina wrote: »I will never understand why people, of their own free will, overspend on things that have the potential to have little to no return, then feel the need to publicly complain about not getting exactly what they wanted in "x" amount of dollars as if it's somehow shocking.
If the community wants the crates gone, the community collectively will have to stop buying them, but that means taking responsibility for your own actions and their consequences, and I fear that is a dream far to lofty for the average MMO player nowadays.
You know, before hand that you are most likely gonna get screwed (they aren't effing gift boxes, they are rng crap boxes that we should all know by now are never ever skewed in the favor of the customer), don't act so pious and shocked when it happens. Or better yet, don't gamble if you cannot handle and/or afford losing it all.
AND THIS!!!
We need to work together if we want crown crates gone so we can buy cosmetics with straight crown purchases and in game farming
What if we don't want them gone?
I don't want them gone. But when storm crates landed Rawlka was like a war zone lit up from the animations.
I have seen one...one hunt guar and that's it so far now.
Drop rates were nerfed hard.
@ZOS_MattFiror any comment on the abysmal drop rates this "season" it's fairly evident in game that you have well and truly taken the *** this time. That labrador dog pet takes up 25% of the loot table by my results. 11 times lol.
I agree with drop rates or increased gem returns. I would also like to see posted odds, I don't really know about being nerfed as I haven't bought any this time around. I just dont let them bother me the way some in here do.0 -
CMFan1966✭✭✭✭✭To me, gambling is playing the lottery, poker machines, slot machines, betting on horses, playing Black Jack etc. The odds are seldom in your favor and usually you are left with nothing but a piece of paper with random numbers printed on it. Besides buying a lottery ticket every now and then, I stay away from that stuff. I don't consider buying crown crates as gambling because I'm getting something whether it's a potion, a pet, a great mount or crown gems to spend on what I want. I consider it more "mystery shopping" than gambling. Life is a risk no matter what you do. Just because someone has a different opinion as yours doesn't make it less true. And never, ever, ever spend more than you can afford to lose.1 -
Iselin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I played three-card monte 20 times in a back alley and I never won! It's unfair I tell ya!0 -
jaye63✭✭✭✭Buy more. Statistically speaking, in the PowerBall lottery, you cant increase your chances of winning until you buy 1000 tickets. You're only at 51.0 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Everyone is picking on Pacrooti.
But Pacrooti seems to be very good at his job.
I bought 2 crates. (I bought 4 or 5 storm crates). I got a pet and a costume.
Not super excited. I wanted the Banekin as I kept intending to get him but just never got around to it. I got him. I'm not sure if the rest of the stuff is worth my purchasing any more crates.
Lesson learned though. If I see something I want in the regular crown store I better buy it before they stuff it into a crown crate and I have to pay twice as many crowns to get it.Founder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%0 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭All the gambling talk makes me think no one in here really gambles. You get 4 to 5 items every time you open a crate. That's not a gamble. This is more akin to buying a Magic: the Gathering booster pack and hoping for a rare card.
Gambling
Wagering of money on a game of chance or event with an uncertain outcome.
So yes, by definition it's gambling.
That's gambling as a term. Not the act of gambling what is being used in this context.
So you would say buying a collectible card game is gambling? Buying a mystery pack item at the store? Turning the crank on a quarter machine for a toy? All of that is gambling to you?
Gambling is just playing the odds, so the first one if you know what you're buying then no its not gambling, the other 2 yes since you don't know what you're going to receive
Gamble -
2.
take risky action in the hope of a desired result.
"the British could only gamble that something would turn up"
synonyms: take a chance, take a risk; MoreEdited by Cpt_Teemo on March 4, 2017 5:00PM0 -
Sektion67✭✭✭PlaceboSoul wrote: »Just once I'd like to see a mount or pet or something else nice in the actual game I already support each month. Just once I'd like to see some new *** to collect and find, but not find it in the crown store.
It boggles my mind that Zenimax doesn't understand this. The notion that people will not buy unique items in the cash shop, because other similar unique items exists as achievements in the game world, is simply false. Let's take WoW for example... there are tons of unique mounts to achieve in-game, but you also see people on cash shop mounts all the time.
It seems like Zenimax asks the question, "How can we milk more money from our fan base?", far too often. When the question they should ask is, "How can we keep people playing this game?". If people are invested in your game they will inevitably spend money.
I have absolutely no problem with the crown store, including the crown crates, as Zenimax is a business that needs to make money. However, this hard stance they've taken has really turned me off. I've spent money in the crown store, but I also want those fun and motivating factors to earn cool items in-game. I have money to spend, but opening my wallet is neither fun nor satisfying.
The devs do great work, the suits in charge... not so much.
Love you.1 -
Nahtal✭✭✭Have buy it once 4 crates, but will not spend on creates anymore. It the dark side of the game industry.
Love to crind, to sell, to explore, to heal, and to have fun.
Templar Breton vampire HEAL CP463 Lord Massimo 'fire is his friend'
Templar Argonian QUAN CHI HEAL CP463: 'the light of friendly'
Nightblade Breton Sjangsung DPS CP463 'does not take souls'
Zizeng (new char) DPS/HEAL warden (not chinees char)1 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's called RNG, and ESO has it's very own special flavour of "random".
This is just such a great example of why the lottery crates are cancerous garbage, I mean you can spend 10x the worth of the item you want and not get it.
I really wish people wouldn't support it with their money so badly. What I don't get most of all is that somehow ZOS has managed to legally introduce gambling to an MMO and everybody just seems fine with it. It blows my mind.1
