Let's clear the air on why people are angry

ol_BANK_lo · February 2017

SGT_Wolfe101st wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/317771/so-whats-the-general-feeling-on-the-morrowind-announcement#latest

The majority of people (and especially subs) are quite happy with the pricing scheme of the Expansion.

OP: you are in a vocal minority. Please would you all stop spamming threads on this?

I would disagree, with the amount of conversations on this topic I would say it is easily an even split. What I don't understand is how my concern is bothersome to the other side. It's not like those that are displeased asked for it to be free and non-subs pay double. I think subs have a reason to be upset. Crowns are devalued, the cadence of ESO+ included DLC will be cut with this new model, no new ESO+ DLC content has been added since Q32016 and will not appear again until Q32017. Those are legitimate gripes. No one asked for anything for free, money has changed hands, there should be services rendered. They changed the model and the TOS's give them that right, but subs have left money on the table and no one likes to feel cheated.

The amount of conversations does not dictate an even split. Statistically speaking from that one poll, 69% of the people are happy (56% of which are subs). That said, I am a sub, and I am not happy. Also, the 29% that are not happy or on the fence is not an insignificant number either, which is why I think Matt from ESO made his post today.

Balamoor · February 2017

Sorry I think the ....
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Crowd is drowning out the .....

Crowd.....
I think it's best shown in the verbal butt kicking the snowflakes are receiving here and on the better known news sites. MassivleyOP has plans to do many news pieces and previews and none seem to be negative, same with MMORPG.com none of the ESO fan sites are crying.

It's being dismissed as a small pseudo vocal tantrum.

Sigtric · February 2017

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The key is not the change in name from dlc to expansion or chapters. The key is that it is not offered in the crown store. The terms of subs is all dlc in crown store

This has been changed from what it was previously (no mention of Crown Store). If you look carefully there are still places that they have forgotten to update this information.

Further people don't only sub for dlc. In fact, if you only sub for dlc and only expect 4 per year, you are losing money by subscribing. It is the dlc combined with the other aspects such as crafting bags and so on.

Yes. It was part of the package. If you pay for 5 items, and only get 4, that doesn't make it ok.

I noticed that. But, they include it where it is important which is on the screen where you choose your sub. Plus, each time you resub it is a new contract. New terms can be added. Even the long term subs expire and have to renew before it drops.

A subscription is not a new contract each resub each month. A subscription follows the terms until you are notifiied of the terms changing, and those changes can't take effect until the end of that term. Being 4 months away, it won't violate anyone's terms, but people just wanted advanced notice of the direction they would take. For two years, ESO has never announced this direction, and then they just announce it on stream and change the ESO Plus screen. They still have not given any clear definition of Chapter vs. DLC...and yes I have read the latest post from today. The territory, questing and battlegrounds is roughly equivalent to Orsinium and Maelstrom. The Warden was included in beta, and they pulled it to now put it behind a paywayll. Just all a bit shady IMO.

4 Months... want advanced notice.

What

imno007b14_ESO · February 2017

I actually just made another post on this a little while ago. I was looking at some page on the ESO site that promised access to all dlc for premium subscribers and was wondering how, in light of that, they could justify charging extra for the Morrowind "chapter." But when I got to looking at the actual signup page, I noticed that it very clearly says that a plus membership guarantees you access to all dlc "available in the Crown Store." I'm not sure how long that clause has been there, but it covers them, since the chapter won't be available in the Crown Store. Not that that will make anyone feel any better.

Ojustaboo · February 2017

bowmanz607 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

I noticed that. But, they include it where it is important which is on the screen where you choose your sub. Plus, each time you resub it is a new contract. New terms can be added. Even the long term subs expire and have to renew before it drops.

I can't say for certain when it was changed in the actual T&Cs but I have e-mails form ZOS dated up to the 27th Jan which state you get access to all DLC packs, and one on the 1st Feb where it has been changed to access to DLC packs available through the Crown Store. So I am pretty certain it is only a very recent change.

The first time there has been any official talk of an ESO Expansion pack, was 31st Jan.

Which leads back to the original point. For the past 6 months subscribers have been subscribed having been told that they would be receiving access to 4 DLCs per year as part of that subscription. And that for the past 6 months ZOS has been taking money from them without fulfilling their stated promises.

Yes they have NOW changed the T&Cs to state that your subscription only allows you to access DLC available on the Crown Store. Yes they have NOW stated their will be 'Chapters' as well as 'DLC'. But up until this point in time, subscribers had no way of knowing that they had changed their business model.

Technically, they said they would have 4 major updates per year I think. And where u buy sub says access to all DLC not how many they will have. Plus, eso plus subscriptions started before the 4 per year thong, so technically they changed their model then to. Before that we didn't even know how many dlc we would get.

Matt Firor at Quakecon in 2015

00:20:00

Expect to see a named dlc pack of some kind quarterly.

So every 12 weeks or so you will see something named with the cool concept, content, new systems, things like that.

The way it works is if you are an ESO+ member you get all the dlc content included as part of eso+ for as long as you are a subscriber.

You can of course purchase it from the store if you want to

Ojustaboo · February 2017

DClatt wrote: »

This whole thing is dumb. People that play world of warcraft and other mmo's don't cry this much about buying an expansion. And as far as that goes patches are the equivalent of DLC's in ESO. It's the exact same thing as any normal mmo. Stop crying.

I don't think everyone is complaining about the charge for the expansion as such (some are), more that we were told we would get quarterly dlc that's available for non subscribers to buy on the store, and by the time Morriowind releases, we would have had an entire year without any.

Had we had the dlc as well, it wouldn't be such a bog deal for most people, but when you've funded them for a year and not got what you were promised, well I understand fully why people are annoyed

daedalusAI · February 2017

The only thing I'm rather disgusted about right now is the in-game announcement that spells "elcome to the Elder Scrolls Online...".

If that is ZOS's QA then morrowind will be quite the ride.

Edit: the other thing is the usual weird behavior from the officials.
Instead of communicating with your players the only thing I see are a few mod posts mainly as a notice that specific posts have been moderated - and nothing else.

Ojustaboo · February 2017

Ozstryker wrote: »

If people don't appreciate what it takes to keep an mmo live and progressive then the game as a whole is probally better off without them.

Well I cancelled today and I've zero intention of leaving, As I've posted elsewhere, Zos will now get far less money from me than they would have done if they didn't go this route.

If you think that they are better off well I suppose it depends how many people do what I do, but they have lost around £70 a year by me going this route, whereas if they had included the expansion, they would have got more money from me,

I only subbed for the crafting bag, and only justified it as I was told I would get regular content included.

To repeat my figures

Paying my sub every 3 months is £100 a year. Plus Morrowind expansion £29.99 making £129.99

I buy a 2nd ESO account, even at full price (and can get a lot cheaper) £20.

I log that character in on my 2nd monitor to use as storage as and when I need it.

I buy the Morrowind expansion, £29.99

They release say 2 new dlc in the next year, say 3000 crowns each

So I need to buy 6000 crowns,

5500 crowns are currently £24 and 750 are just under £5

So I've spent £20 on the game, £30 on expansion, £29 on crowns for DLC. Total cost £79

A saving of £50 this year (well more like £60 - 65 as I'm sure I can get ESO for 50 - 75% off somewhere). Not sure if the current price is the normal crown price or if it's discounted, but I will only buy crowns in sales anyway , and of course next year the saving will be £70 as I won't be buying ESO again

sevomd69 · February 2017

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The key is not the change in name from dlc to expansion or chapters. The key is that it is not offered in the crown store. The terms of subs is all dlc in crown store

This has been changed from what it was previously (no mention of Crown Store). If you look carefully there are still places that they have forgotten to update this information.

Further people don't only sub for dlc. In fact, if you only sub for dlc and only expect 4 per year, you are losing money by subscribing. It is the dlc combined with the other aspects such as crafting bags and so on.

Yes. It was part of the package. If you pay for 5 items, and only get 4, that doesn't make it ok.

I noticed that. But, they include it where it is important which is on the screen where you choose your sub. Plus, each time you resub it is a new contract. New terms can be added. Even the long term subs expire and have to renew before it drops.

A subscription is not a new contract each resub each month. A subscription follows the terms until you are notifiied of the terms changing, and those changes can't take effect until the end of that term. Being 4 months away, it won't violate anyone's terms, but people just wanted advanced notice of the direction they would take. For two years, ESO has never announced this direction, and then they just announce it on stream and change the ESO Plus screen. They still have not given any clear definition of Chapter vs. DLC...and yes I have read the latest post from today. The territory, questing and battlegrounds is roughly equivalent to Orsinium and Maelstrom. The Warden was included in beta, and they pulled it to now put it behind a paywayll. Just all a bit shady IMO.

Actually they don't even have to notify you or have the same terms throughout the month subscription... and you agreed to that when you signed their ToS...

Salganis · February 2017

I think the problem would be solved if the subscriptions take off the crowns equivalent to 3 months to upgrade the account, remember that the crowns are not worth the dollars because you can buy them on offer, but the subscription is not on offers so it would be a fair option for subscribers.

Sigtric · February 2017

Salganis wrote: »

I think the problem would be solved if the subscriptions take off the crowns equivalent to 3 months to upgrade the account, remember that the crowns are not worth the dollars because you can buy them on offer, but the subscription is not on offers so it would be a fair option for subscribers.

Why 3 months?

gard · February 2017

imno007b14_ESO wrote: »

I actually just made another post on this a little while ago. I was looking at some page on the ESO site that promised access to all dlc for premium subscribers and was wondering how, in light of that, they could justify charging extra for the Morrowind "chapter." But when I got to looking at the actual signup page, I noticed that it very clearly says that a plus membership guarantees you access to all dlc "available in the Crown Store." I'm not sure how long that clause has been there, but it covers them, since the chapter won't be available in the Crown Store. Not that that will make anyone feel any better.

That's part of the issue. It's been changed ninja style.

Balamoor · February 2017

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Ozstryker wrote: »

If people don't appreciate what it takes to keep an mmo live and progressive then the game as a whole is probally better off without them.

Well I cancelled today and I've zero intention of leaving, As I've posted elsewhere, Zos will now get far less money from me than they would have done if they didn't go this route.

blah blah

Nice to know you will be hanging around the forums with your sunny positive disposition.....and hey that's your choice mate, but I'm pretty sure those that actually do what you are threatening to do will be small. ESO just won yet another best MMO award, my guild has become pretty selective in who we choose because we have seen a sharp uptick in applications, a buddy at Amazon said the physical CE may sell out in the first month given how fast it is selling. My point is if anything this game is growing in popularity which means the devs must be doing something right and losing a few malcontents isn't going to change anything.

gard · February 2017

Ozstryker wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Zeni has proven themselves time and again to be a company without integrity. This change is aligned with what I expect from them, which is very little at this point.

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

So, people are angry that they pay a subscription and are forced to pay for an expansion?

Are you guys stupid? EVERY SUB MMO MAKES YOU PAY FOR AN EXPANSION. This game isnt even truly a subcription.

Gw2 is btp makes you pay for an expansion

WoW is sub and makes you pay for expansion

Ffxiv is sub makes you pay for expansions

Every major mmo is gonna make you pay for an expansion. I dont understand why people think ZoS is supposed to be different in that regard. Are they not a company trying to make money?

Like, how whiny can this forum get?

Console millenials I guess!
Personally what I don't get is the "they changed some wording, I'm gunna un-sub" blah blah.. If people don't appreciate what it takes to keep an mmo live and progressive then the game as a whole is probally better off without them.
Ive subbed since day 1.... I'm not mad! and certainly wasn't under some illusion that I was owed 4 dlc's a year, who cares if wardens were developed (or partly developed) in beta, or some content was held back till later.. Its coming now, as long as the content remains high quality and the game remains stable then good enough!

That's the thing. Take me, for example.

I cancelled my two subs. I'm still playing. So the change is that now, ZOS (the evil empire) doesn't have my money helping to keep things going. Well done, ZOS.
This makes me happy. Revenge of the Nerd.

I'm curious: Doesn't it make you angry when someone makes a commitment to you and then doesn't follow through?
I have a hard time believing that.

Ackwalan · February 2017

ZOS_BillE wrote: »

We've removed a series of posts that were threatening to derail the conversation. Please keep your disagreements civil as there is no need to mock or insult someone for their opinion.

You got me again. Here I thought ZOS was actually responding to a community relation post, but no, it's just a pc play nice post.

UrbanMonk · February 2017

MythicEmperor wrote: »

. Morrowind is twice the size, with a new class, battlegrounds, and more. Relative to the bar set by ZOS, these two content drops are not comparable. Morrowind seems to have a lot more work put into it, which I feel justifies the lack of its inclusion in the sub.

that is yet to be seen and decided if that's really the case.

UrbanMonk · February 2017

autumnsongbird wrote: »

They will do what they want to do. My anger is done. My sub will end when it runs out. No more money for them from that. My craft bags are way full. A game is not an investment. It's a game. It's a microcosm at best.

People who are complaining because they are upset should be complaining if they want to let their feelings be known. Complain more by unsubbing and being done with the game or at least with the sub. Subs are now: year old or older dlc and a craft bag with some crown. Not much worth it once you get your craft bags quite full. After that sell or donate the excess to a guild you like or a player who needs it.

I'm with you on this bro.

Paske · February 2017

Plus member here ...

I am one of those angry over paying for an expansion that is in content / hours smaller then Orsinium.

Allow me to elaborate - Morrowind is announced to be 30 hours of content, Orsinium was 40 hours of content.

Apart from that we get a class that was in game during ESO Beta, but removed.
So they had most of work done years ago.

And battlegrounds - basicaly small PVP maps.

Very little content for asking price.
Apart of 30 hours ( probably 20 or less for an experienced player ) you get one trial.

Just because they call it an expansion ( you get a new class and a new name - its and expansion ! DUH ) doesnt really make it so.

What really got me agitated was the cash grab mentality of ZOS in past year.
Crown store was OK to begin with.
But then we got crates - OK... Not cool, but I can live with that.

Homestead is coming. Cool stuff ! Was looking forward to it.
As an Imperial edition owner thought of Imperial home was really sexy ! But then during testing phase they removed proper Imperial style furniture ( Nibenay ) that goes well with overall Imperial style in current game and made in Crown store exclusive. Sure you get Imperail stlye, just not one that complements rest of Imperial house. So unless you pay Crowns you wont have proper Imperail. Real slimey.

So I sadly canceled my sub ...
But in the end does ZOS care about people like me leaving ?
No. And here is why - there are more people coming in then leaving. In every MMO it is normal for people to leave as time progresses.

Its like youre ex girl or boy or whatever - from passionate love it becomes a warm hug while passing each other or not even that. With time relationship dies.

Korah_Eaglecry · February 2017

As a subscriber I dont feel like Ive been left out to dry. I sympathize and understand where those subscribers, who feel this way, are coming from. But for me personally. This is par for the course with MMOs. At least with Expansions and such.

I do understand that for someone that might have been new to MMOs or had always felt this was a better way of approaching new content. It seems underhanded and yes, I would agree its underhanded. Theyve made promises that they are once again not sticking with. They promised that as Subscribers you wouldnt have to worry about content because the sub would give you access to it. And this new "Chapters" method will disrupt that entirely.

ZOS has definitely misstepped with this.

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

It is a mine field of emotions trying to navigate this thread now . The OP was attempting to bring civil discourse to the topic and a sense of understanding fellow players . That just seems to be an impossibility with some of the player base determined to emotionally back their love or dislike for the situation . Make a call for your self and avoid the landslide of negativity . Sure leave a post with feedback but you do not have to engage every fanatic or responder . I am just glad their isn't a Ford fanatic following me around the car lot calling me a snowflake every time I try to negotiate the terms on a new car . I'm just glad no one follows me to the return isle at CostCo yelling at me that they love those things I'm trying to return . I wish ZoS had a physical location nearby I could walk in make a statement and leave to avoid this zone when I have a concern lol .

Short version ; just ignore negativity .

Sigtric · February 2017

Paske wrote: »

Plus member here ...

I am one of those angry over paying for an expansion that is in content / hours smaller then Orsinium.

Allow me to elaborate - Morrowind is announced to be 30 hours of content, Orsinium was 40 hours of content.

Apart from that we get a class that was in game during ESO Beta, but removed.
So they had most of work done years ago.

And battlegrounds - basicaly small PVP maps.

Very little content for asking price.
Apart of 30 hours ( probably 20 or less for an experienced player ) you get one trial.

Just because they call it an expansion ( you get a new class and a new name - its and expansion ! DUH ) doesnt really make it so.

What really got me agitated was the cash grab mentality of ZOS in past year.
Crown store was OK to begin with.
But then we got crates - OK... Not cool, but I can live with that.

Homestead is coming. Cool stuff ! Was looking forward to it.
As an Imperial edition owner thought of Imperial home was really sexy ! But then during testing phase they removed proper Imperial style furniture ( Nibenay ) that goes well with overall Imperial style in current game and made in Crown store exclusive. Sure you get Imperail stlye, just not one that complements rest of Imperial house. So unless you pay Crowns you wont have proper Imperail. Real slimey.

So I sadly canceled my sub ...
But in the end does ZOS care about people like me leaving ?
No. And here is why - there are more people coming in then leaving. In every MMO it is normal for people to leave as time progresses.

Its like youre ex girl or boy or whatever - from passionate love it becomes a warm hug while passing each other or not even that. With time relationship dies.

Orsinium is billed as over 20 hours of content.
If you did it in 40, that is due to the pace at which you consume content. Using this as a baseline, if Morrowind is billed as over 30 hours of content, if you were to do it at the same rate you did Orsinium, you might see 60 hours of content.
You can see the 20 hours on the official information page for Orsinium. http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/dlc/orsinium

Landmass wise, people comparing maps have shown Vvardenfell to be at least as big as Wrothgar and Stonefalls combinedif not bigger (yes, some of the map is inaccessible due to being a large volcano)

The truth of the matter is, we were given the main selling points for the Morrowind expansion but none of us, outside of ZOS, know the full scope of content.

Jade1986 · February 2017

REally? I have to pay MORE than the actual game to get this expansion. Whose genius idea was THAT?!

Salganis · February 2017

Sigtric wrote: »

Salganis wrote: »

I think the problem would be solved if the subscriptions take off the crowns equivalent to 3 months to upgrade the account, remember that the crowns are not worth the dollars because you can buy them on offer, but the subscription is not on offers so it would be a fair option for subscribers.

Why 3 months?

3 months = 45 us
If you want colettion edition be just 4 months

UrbanMonk · February 2017

Cherryblossom wrote: »

This would be the only way to show you value your sub as much as Zenimax

Done on both acc...

Sigtric · February 2017

laced wrote: »

REally? I have to pay MORE than the actual game to get this expansion. Whose genius idea was THAT?!

That's generally the way MMO Expansions work, some genius thought it up way back in the ancient pre-wow days.

SydneyGrey · February 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).

It wasn't always that way, though. 10-20 years ago, expansions and DLC were considered different things, with DLC being considered as being a smaller amount of content than an expansion. Over the years, people have come to place expansions under the "DLC" heading. Bethesda has always considered DLC and expansions as different things. I've played almost every Bethesda game since Morrowind, and trust me, DLC used to be considered separate from an expansion.

The reason is that there was a time when you couldn't download expansions. They were sold on CD in retail stores. DLC came about when the companies finally realized they could just have people download content instead of having to package it up in a box on CD and market it to stores. Even then, DLC was considered separate from an expansion for a long, long time, and was always thought of as being a smaller amount of content.

Sigtric · February 2017

Salganis wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Salganis wrote: »

I think the problem would be solved if the subscriptions take off the crowns equivalent to 3 months to upgrade the account, remember that the crowns are not worth the dollars because you can buy them on offer, but the subscription is not on offers so it would be a fair option for subscribers.

Why 3 months?

3 months = 45 us
If you want colettion edition be just 4 months

But what if I buy my sub in 180 day increments, getting it for 12.99/30 days instead of 14.99?

Why not just buy the expansion like intended instead of weaseling for a discount?

Rohamad_Ali · February 2017

SydneyGrey wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).

It wasn't always that way, though. 10-20 years ago, expansions and DLC were considered different things, with DLC being considered as being a smaller amount of content than an expansion. Over the years, people have come to place expansions under the "DLC" heading. Bethesda has always considered DLC and expansions as different things. I've played almost every Bethesda game since Morrowind, and trust me, DLC used to be considered separate from an expansion.

The reason is that there was a time when you couldn't download expansions. They were sold on CD in retail stores. DLC came about when the companies finally realized they could just have people download content instead of having to package it up in a box on CD and market it to stores. Even then, DLC was considered separate from an expansion for a long, long time, and was always thought of as being a smaller amount of content.

I don't get their reason for going backwards on tech and making physical disks to buy . That's like if Snoop Dog decided he needed to release his new album on cassette so he could get more money lol . I don't have disk holders on my desk anymore ...

Sigtric · February 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

SydneyGrey wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

The terms are interchangeable in the gaming industry. Here is an article from Gamespot, announcing the Orsinium DLC as a new expansion (and calling it both terms in the actual article).

It wasn't always that way, though. 10-20 years ago, expansions and DLC were considered different things, with DLC being considered as being a smaller amount of content than an expansion. Over the years, people have come to place expansions under the "DLC" heading. Bethesda has always considered DLC and expansions as different things. I've played almost every Bethesda game since Morrowind, and trust me, DLC used to be considered separate from an expansion.

The reason is that there was a time when you couldn't download expansions. They were sold on CD in retail stores. DLC came about when the companies finally realized they could just have people download content instead of having to package it up in a box on CD and market it to stores. Even then, DLC was considered separate from an expansion for a long, long time, and was always thought of as being a smaller amount of content.

I don't get their reason for going backwards on tech and making physical disks to buy . That's like if Snoop Dog decided he needed to release his new album on cassette so he could get more money lol . I don't have disk holders on my desk anymore ...

Some people like having physical disks
Some people like the option
Some people have slow internet connections that are enough to game with but downloads are extremely slow
Some people like physical collectors editions

Ozstryker · February 2017

gard wrote: »

Ozstryker wrote: »

Reverb wrote: »

Zeni has proven themselves time and again to be a company without integrity. This change is aligned with what I expect from them, which is very little at this point.

subtlezeroub17_ESO wrote: »

So, people are angry that they pay a subscription and are forced to pay for an expansion?

Are you guys stupid? EVERY SUB MMO MAKES YOU PAY FOR AN EXPANSION. This game isnt even truly a subcription.

Gw2 is btp makes you pay for an expansion

WoW is sub and makes you pay for expansion

Ffxiv is sub makes you pay for expansions

Every major mmo is gonna make you pay for an expansion. I dont understand why people think ZoS is supposed to be different in that regard. Are they not a company trying to make money?

Like, how whiny can this forum get?

Console millenials I guess!
Personally what I don't get is the "they changed some wording, I'm gunna un-sub" blah blah.. If people don't appreciate what it takes to keep an mmo live and progressive then the game as a whole is probally better off without them.
Ive subbed since day 1.... I'm not mad! and certainly wasn't under some illusion that I was owed 4 dlc's a year, who cares if wardens were developed (or partly developed) in beta, or some content was held back till later.. Its coming now, as long as the content remains high quality and the game remains stable then good enough!

That's the thing. Take me, for example.

I cancelled my two subs. I'm still playing. So the change is that now, ZOS (the evil empire) doesn't have my money helping to keep things going. Well done, ZOS.
This makes me happy. Revenge of the Nerd.

I'm curious: Doesn't it make you angry when someone makes a commitment to you and then doesn't follow through?
I have a hard time believing that.

Basically you've cut your nose off to spite your face! The thing is now u gotta buy the dlc, bag space etc. etc. But that is your choice, so more power to ya my nerdmigo..

To answer your other question, I honestly don't get hung up on what people say they are going to do, actions speak much louder.. The real measure of their actions is how I (or we) react... In this case, I'm pretty meh, didnt expect much, got alot.. Happy days.