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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Let's clear the air on why people are angry
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sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...3 -
corrosivechains✭✭✭✭✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...
https://youtu.be/k2h72aXVP8o "Could you post me a link to the official MMO rule book please." - clayandaudrey_ESO2 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭corrosivechains wrote: »reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...https://youtu.be/k2h72aXVP8o
LOL... This Jessica Simpson "Chicken of the Sea" convo actually crossed my mind when I was posting this...This argument is just as stupid...0 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
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That's easy. A baby elephant is smarge.AtAfternoon wrote: »Large compared to what? Is a baby elephant small or large?
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp2 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭REally? I have to pay MORE than the actual game to get this expansion. Whose genius idea was THAT?!
The digital upgrade is less than the price of the base game at launch, without the Imperial Edition. The physical Collector's Edition of Morrowind is the same as the physical CE version at launch, though personally a think this statue is cooler than the Molag Bal one.Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭corrosivechains wrote: »reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...https://youtu.be/k2h72aXVP8o
LOL... This Jessica Simpson "Chicken of the Sea" convo actually crossed my mind when I was posting this...This argument is just as stupid...
To be fair it wouldn't make sense if that is how she read it, when you say chicken by the sea it could very well mean chicken, obviously she got it once she realize what it actually said.0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
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My theory is they're calling them "chapters" in case they decide to release a chapter with less content some day. If they don't call it an expansion, they are free to make the content as much or as little as they like. For example, if one day they release a new character class and nothing else, they can call it a "chapter." If they call it an "expansion," they're creating an expectation of a huge amount of content.corrosivechains wrote: »it's hilarious that those same 5 people defending this are still calling it an "expansion" when even ZOS refuses to call it an "expansion". They're being very careful to NOT call it an "expansion", because it isn't on par with what traditional MMO's release as such. It's a "chapter", quit trying to obfuscate what this is.
Very simple, really.
We all know Morrowind will fit the traditional definition of an expansion, which is why I was calling it an expansion.
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citats✭✭✭40$ USD just to play pvp without zergs? I honestly don't care at all for doing a new tutorial and a few new quests on a new character. I've been wanting to work on practicing actual pvp with my main character without dropping to 1fps when 20 guys chase me down. The fact that eso doesn't yet have battlegrounds should only be considered a mistake; the base game desperately needs this to be considered viable as a competitive leaderboard style game (which you are already going for... trials). This is not to say you shouldn't release big huge payed xpacs in the future with loads of new trials, you should. But a core element of the game does not belong in an expansion.
@ZOS You're making it sound like you've reinvented a new game - a new tutorial does not make for a new game, nobody is buying that (figuratively lol)... And come on, you KNOW that the "base game" is completely barebones as far as pvp is concerned. Cyrodil is not even in a playable state yet, and yet you think you are ready to release a mini-Cyrodil "expansion" at a higher cost than the base game? What happens if battlegrounds isn't playable either? Which will you prioritize to fix, Cyrodil or Battlegrounds? Or is Cyrodil a finished project now? An enjoyable player experience from your point of view?
The base game costed what, 10$ USD on Steam just a few weeks ago? And now it's back at 30$ USD for the release of the expansion? Disappointing how you try to confuse the game prices to make a wave of quick profit off everyone you can. Makes me wonder if you even intend to improve the playability of the game or just improve it's profitability.
So say I cave and I buy this... for 40$ USD... and I realize hey there's no lag and I actually have a chance to play in a balanced environment wow! My casual gaming irl friends might finally be able to come try some pvp in an environment that promotes training individualized skill and teamwork as opposed to spamming roots to trap players for this massive zerg to mow down.
Do you really think these players are going to pay 40$ for an expansion to a game that, by the way, they all bought for 10$ on Steam? Just for the hope that the pvp in your "new" pvp mode isn't as tedious as the 10$ pvp that still hasn't seen any notable improvement? Imperial City was a better attempt at this in my opinion and it's now deserted of players (at least that is the case on azura's where I typically play).
No matter how much I try to convince them, no, they're not going to buy it.
I feel like this is too soon in the development of the game for a bad decision like this. It will only serve to divide communities of friends into quitting the game.1 -
Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...
absolutely.
this 'expansion' should be purchasable with crowns, like the rest of the dlc, imho.
Edited by Lylith on February 3, 2017 7:09AM0 -
gard✭✭✭✭✭"CosmicSoul wrote: »
Eq and wow came out with expansions all the time while you did not get any of it for subbing and everyone had to sub to play.
Nice story. Since EQ and WoW never advertised that a current sub grants access to all content, how is it relevant?
Doesn't matter. ZOS changed what a sub offers and didn't follow through on things they said they'd do. Live and learn I guess.
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Sigma957✭✭✭✭✭Don't cry about a $40 upgrade or even for $60 with CE I payed $99.95au for the digital CE upgrade and I'm a +member lol
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LiquidSchwartz✭✭✭✭✭First of all, if you think a DLC is the same as an EXPANSION.. you have found your problem.
They are not the same. I agree with not giving it to subs, and I sub.
It is an expansion to the game not just some small crap zone with a lame skill line to progress quests to milk the time we spend in there.
They only said it covers DLC.. wrothgar is as good as it should get for DLC size/content. This is bigger than wrothgar.
people always feel that theyre entitled to stuff for the wrong reasons
May the Schwartz be with you.EP/XB1/NA0 -
VaporisSoul ShrivenI'm a subscriber. Have been since launch and I'm completely fine with this change.
I've pre-ordered the Collectors Edition. The Dwemer construct will look great on my desk next to my Molag Bal from the Imperial Edition and my Kylo Ren.
It's worth noting that humans, being the odd creatures that we are, only tend to be vocal about something we are annoyed about. This leads to a situation where someone reading these forums could be forgiven for thinking that EVERYONE hates the change when the reality is that the majority of people who are fine with it are just going about their business and not posting about it.No sir. Time will show that it is, in fact, you who is the Milksopp.2 -
esotoon✭✭✭✭✭
✭LiquidSchwartz wrote: »First of all, if you think a DLC is the same as an EXPANSION
It's not an expansion pack. Source: ZOS
Edited by esotoon on February 3, 2017 10:10AM1 -
stimpy986b14_ESO✭✭✭✭I don't know about anyone else, I'm angry because they chose Warden over Necromancer0 -
Frondale✭✭✭LiquidSchwartz wrote: »First of all, if you think a DLC is the same as an EXPANSION.. you have found your problem.
They are not the same. I agree with not giving it to subs, and I sub.
It is an expansion to the game not just some small crap zone with a lame skill line to progress quests to milk the time we spend in there.
They only said it covers DLC.. wrothgar is as good as it should get for DLC size/content. This is bigger than wrothgar.
people always feel that theyre entitled to stuff for the wrong reasons
I am fine with it too.
The bandaide hurts when it comes off
Edited by Frondale on February 3, 2017 11:08AM0 -
notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
I am a subscriber and I have bought probably about 30000 crown separately. Yet I have no issue with this change, so this post just mostly seems like projection of your problems with it.
It is not ZOS' fault that people are stupid. Those terms are not interchangeable. DLC is used for small content and almost every game while expansion is used for large content in almost every game. It is pretty ignorant of the obvious to claim otherwise.
What does recognition matter for paying for access to things? Nobody held a gun to their head and made them pay that. I've bought most of the DLC, I subscribe because I support games I enjoy playing and I like the bonus I get.1 -
Hand_Bacon✭✭✭✭✭I think everyone is so angry because in this game everyone has teeth, but no toothbrush.
#AlmostGood@ESO0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
It is about the money... its always about the money...If it were "free" (the price = $0) then it wouldn't be an issue... so it is in fact about the price...Edited by sevomd69 on February 3, 2017 1:12PM0 -
vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SydneyGrey wrote: »
My theory is they're calling them "chapters" in case they decide to release a chapter with less content some day. If they don't call it an expansion, they are free to make the content as much or as little as they like. For example, if one day they release a new character class and nothing else, they can call it a "chapter." If they call it an "expansion," they're creating an expectation of a huge amount of content.corrosivechains wrote: »it's hilarious that those same 5 people defending this are still calling it an "expansion" when even ZOS refuses to call it an "expansion". They're being very careful to NOT call it an "expansion", because it isn't on par with what traditional MMO's release as such. It's a "chapter", quit trying to obfuscate what this is.
Very simple, really.
We all know Morrowind will fit the traditional definition of an expansion, which is why I was calling it an expansion.
Exactly this. They are calling them chapters for the very reason you see people fighting over dlc and expansion. As far as chapters are concerned in the gaming world, it has no meaning. It could literally be anything. And they could label it chapter, and no one could make the arguement, hey that doesnt qualify as a chapter! Since chapter has no meaning in the gaming world.
It is their way if creating a label for something so they can make it as much or as little as they want and still charge you for it. Since it is a 'Chapter'.0 -
medusasfolly✭✭✭reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...
And now we know that just because ZOS says something, it most definitely does not mean that it is true....Edited by medusasfolly on February 3, 2017 1:28PM0 -
sevomd69✭✭✭✭✭
✭medusasfolly wrote: »reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...
And now we know that just because ZOS says something, it most definitely does not mean that it is true....
But in the land of ZoS if they say its a DLC to them then in their business model, it is a DLC and if they choose to say it is a chapter (or expansion) then in their business model it is a chapter... so when you are using THEIR service and agreeing to THEIR ToS what they call it is in fact reality... if you don't agree with either connotation of the terms than as they clearly state in their ToS, you are free to stop using THEIR service...Edited by sevomd69 on February 3, 2017 2:16PM0 -
corrosivechains✭✭✭✭✭LiquidSchwartz wrote: »First of all, if you think a DLC is the same as an EXPANSION.. you have found your problem.
They are not the same. I agree with not giving it to subs, and I sub.
It is an expansion to the game not just some small crap zone with a lame skill line to progress quests to milk the time we spend in there.
They only said it covers DLC.. wrothgar is as good as it should get for DLC size/content. This is bigger than wrothgar.
people always feel that theyre entitled to stuff for the wrong reasons
someone already pointed out but. It's a chapter, not an expansion. It's funny you go on to describe the difference though as not just some crap zone with a lame skill line. Let's see what's being offered with this "chapter".
1 zone...
1 new class, so 3 skill lines...
1 new trial...
0 new dungeons...
that's comparable to previous DLC's, except the others also added dungeons.
Now, compare that to traditional MMO expansions in games that don't have what you are arguing as DLC's
1 new continent with 4-7 zones...
1-4 dungeons per zone..
a dedicated world pvp area within each zone...
3 raid tiers with 2-3 raids per tier...
1-2 new races or 1 new class, sometimes both...
But hey, you can go ahead and keep calling it an Expansion to justify your day one purchase. Just don't complain when you chew through the content in less than the billed 30 hours, because you know they're padding that out with actually listening to full NPC dialogue, reading lorebooks, and all the other mundane things.MLGProPlayer wrote: »I see a lot of strawman arguments being made. Nobody seems to understand why some people are angry.
People don't care about the price of the DLC. $40 is not a lot of money.
People are angry because ZOS has changed their revenue model AGAIN, leaving subscribers out to dry. The most loyal fans of the game feel betrayed because they felt they were paying for something, at a rate of $180 a year, that they will not receive now.
Had ZOS been clear from the start on what constitutes a DLC and what constitutes an expansion (two interchangeable terms), this whole mess could have been avoided. People who subbed for access to all future content, might not have subbed if they knew expansions would not be included in that rate.
These are players who have contributed many times the value of the DLC through their subscription, yet they are not getting any recognition for that now.
The worst part is that these players cannot even use the crowns they have accumulated to buy this latest expansion. These are real dollars that were paid to ZOS.
This is why some people are angry.
It is about the money... its always about the money...If it were "free" (the price = $0) then it wouldn't be an issue... so it is in fact about the price...
The person you quoted didn't say it wasn't about the money, they said people didn't care about the price. And he/she is right. I'd gladly drop $40 in crowns for it since I already bought those crowns in anticipation for this release. Hell most the subscribers at this point would too with the crowns they paid for with their sub. So yes, it is about the money, but price isn't the issue. Lawyer speak, a business model that changes every year, and a company hell bent on milking a fandom instead of providing good customer service and rewarding customer loyalty...that's the problem.
But yeah, keep being condescending to the people who've been paying to keep this game afloat for you. This new business model of getting everyone to pay $40 a year instead of $150-180 isn't sustainable. So expect the next "chapter" to be less for more."Could you post me a link to the official MMO rule book please." - clayandaudrey_ESO2 -
Ojustaboo✭✭✭✭✭
✭medusasfolly wrote: »reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Uhhh...So what is it?... a DLC or an expansion? And just because the media says something most definitely does not mean that it is true...
And now we know that just because ZOS says something, it most definitely does not mean that it is true....
But in the land of ZoS if they say its a DLC to them then in their business model, it is a DLC and if they choose to say it is a chapter (or expansion) then in their business model it is a chapter... so when you are using THEIR service and agreeing to THEIR ToS what they call it is in fact reality... if you don't agree with either connotation of the terms than as they clearly state in their ToS, you are free to stop using THEIR service...
But in THEIR ToS, they imply that ANYTHING downloaded from their site is classed as download contentDownloadable Content, Achievements, and Other Virtual Items
Content also includes Content that is downloaded or downloadable from any website under ZeniMax's control ("Downloadable Content"), provided that the term Downloadable Content does not include Game Mods (as defined below). Downloadable Content includes, but is not limited to, licensed rights granted, awarded, and/or provided to You to access and/or use online or off-line elements or features of certain Services as well as Game updates, unlockable Content, digital and/or virtual assets, rights of use tied to unlock keys or codes, serial codes and/or online authentication of any kind, in-game achievements, video trailers, Game screenshots, and/or Game-related wallpapers
And as I posted else where, if you watch this vid
Watch from 16:50 to 18:40Right now you are looking at Orsinium or Wrothgar which is probably scheduled to be one of our earlier packs and you know, if you decide you want to buy it separately as dlc you can do that, if you decide you want to become an ESO Plus member, then this will come with ESO Plus, and I think thats one of the cool things, so for people who still like kind of the model that goes with subscription, the dlc will absolutely support that, here you can see some work we've done with Clockwork City. So there's a lot of cool places that people are going to want to visit and open up and there's multiple ways to get to these areas, and its basically just allowing people who want the option of how they want the dlc, how they want to pay for it, it's giving them more option.
that to me is them telling me Clockwork City is part of the DLC for ESO plus
And as I've said elsewhere, there is ZERO mention of ESO Plus in either the ToS or the EULA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RxYZLOS5Jw 1
