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Morrowind expansion = Value....FINALLY!

willlienellson
willlienellson
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I know a lot of people are complaining that this is an "expansion" instead of a "DLC" and will be sold for real world currency instead of accessible via membership and/or bought with crowns.
But I think it's instructive to consider this in contrast to the other offerings by this company over the last few months that people (myself included) have complained about.

People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.

FIRST,
Make no mistake about it, the reason most items are sold with "crowns" is because it allows you to divorce the real cost of the item from the decision to purchase it. These imaginary currencies exist specifically to keep you from analyzing the value of the purchase.

Furthermore, once people are hooked into the stream of converting real world currency for imaginary currency, it's much easier to convince you to buy junk that has no value. If you literally pulled out a credit card to pay $35 for a mount, many of you would be forced to consider than transaction in the context of what other things you could buy for $35 in the real world. Going to the movies, getting an oil change, a new sweater, etc.

But when your real life money has already been converted to crowns, the decision simply becomes "which one of these few limited crown offerings should I buy"?

SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. Things like a child's refrigerator drawing of a reindeer stretched over a horse skeleton for 4000 crowns.

It's like the old Seinfield quote. "It's a show about nothing. So why would they watch it? .......Because it's on TV"

They are trying to sell you nothing. Why would you buy it? Because it's in the crown store.

This has led to a feedback loop of negativity and LESS VALUE. The worse the items are in the crown store, the more people save their crowns, the more Zos overcharges for even more unrefined junk in an attempt to get you to use up the crowns.

BUT THIS IS A BETTER DIRECTION.
Zos has my congratulations on both offering real value with this expansion (as far as I can tell so far) and offering it for a legitimate price in the realm of normal commerce.
Anyone complaining about the cost of this expansion and the demand of real world currency for it has been duped by the fake currency system of crowns. This expansion offers the best value offering by Zos in years, if not since the launch of the game.

This expansion comes with a costume, mount, armor converter, pets, and more. Prior to this, the most recent mount cost over half as much as this expansion by itself...and it SUCKED. lol

THIS IS VALUE. GOOD JOB ZENIMAX.
I hope they have tremendous sales and make massive revenue from this expansion so they return to offering real content, real value, for real money.

(too bad Homestead doesn't feel more that way)
Edited by willlienellson on January 31, 2017 10:51PM
  • NovaShadow
    NovaShadow
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    I didn't realise the DLC was already released.

    It must've been for you cannot possibly say something is valuable until you've experienced it.
    PC NA - EPHS
  • akl77
    akl77
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    Yea the marketing looks great and promising just like 1T and 4K on PS4 pro trailers, but don't buy into that, ZOS you tricked me once twice, and no more, I can be sure the morrowind is going to be full of crashes and errors as always.

    You promised what 4k on PS4 pro, and it crashes every 5-15min, how do I play? It's false advertising.
    You promised what 1T, it's full of unbalances and crashes non stop due to overcrowding, crashes every hour without reason.
    Cyrodiil crashes every 15min guaranteed.

    I've had enough of your trickery and false marketing, your game need to patch up to standards, full of crashes and errors is going to get a score of 3/10.
    Pc na
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    NovaShadow wrote: »
    I didn't realise the DLC was already released.
    It must've been for you cannot possibly say something is valuable until you've experienced it.

    I've never bought a vial of crack.
    I've also never bought a bulldozer.
    Yet I can objectively say there is more "value" in the bulldozer than a vial of crack.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
    Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    Two things are going on here.

    ESO offering a sizable chunk of content for a decent price = GOOD

    ESO changing their business model yet again and screwing over existing subscribers = BAD
    eso-plus.jpg


    If my wireless carrier offers a new plan that gives me a ton of data for a reasonable price, then that is a good deal on its own merits.

    However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used anymore when the new plan is launched, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.
    Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on January 31, 2017 11:57PM
  • Unsent.Soul
    Unsent.Soul
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    Two things are going on here.

    ESO offering a sizable chunk of content for a decent price = GOOD

    ESO changing their business model yet again and screwing over existing subscribers = BAD
    eso-plus.jpg


    If my wireless carrier offers a new plan that gives me a ton of data for a reasonable price, then that is a good deal on its own merits.

    However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used in the new plan, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

    I wish more people would understand that this is 1 of the major reasons in today's uproar. Only reason I'm here right now...

    I've taken a break from eso and the forums but a friend text me earlier out of the blue and was asking about the warden class ( he watched the video ,I haven't yet) so I mustered over here. At first I literally felt betrayed, pissed off, my money (crowns) are no good, and just plain dissapointed. That was my fit's reaction, now I'm more calm but will wait till whatever info is released tomorrow.

    I'm just not sure about my time in tamriel anymore, this doesn't help.
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used in the new plan, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.
    FWIW, that happens all the time.
    But I take your point.

    However, I think you are misunderstanding the agreement you have with Zos.

    You subscribe for a month. You have access to all current and previous DLC for that month. They aren't obligated to continue that arrangement permanently into the future. They aren't obligated to give access to all future content nor to sell all future content for crowns.

    When did Zos promise that all future content would be available for crowns? I think people made assumptions based on the fact that DLC's were available for crowns, and they could save their crowns to buy them, that ALL FUTURE content would be delivered in the same way. I think that was foolish.

    Furthermore, Zos is free at any point to change it's membership offering for the future. As consumers we don't get to "cry foul" when a company chooses to offer a different product for a different price in the future. We only get to cry foul when they misrepresent a product for sale.

    People are complaining as if they subscribed this month expecting access to Morrowind this month, and found out it's not included.

    We have several months advanced notice to decide if subscribing is worth it or not considering what a subscription will and will not include in June 2017.

    I'll give you an analogy of my own.

    A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
    So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
    The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
    So you feel betrayed.

    But you weren't.
  • Paraflex
    Paraflex
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    All saved up Crowns are considered Revenue earned in previous months. They are interested in increasing the current quarter with real money instead of using up saved crowns.

    I do think you should have the option to use crowns for the DLC but they probably realize they can earn a lot more buy naming it an expansion and costing $$$....smart move it's good content so far...I'm a buyer! Hell I'd pay $100 for even more PvP content!
    Hollykills CP 630 Templar Healer - Ad PS4 Warlord Rank

    Max Stam/Mag Dk
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    Max Stam/Mag NB

    Don't care to dps much so I heal.


  • Unsent.Soul
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    @willlienellson

    Fair points. Upon my initial reaction there were a lot of things assumed. That's my bad. So far we've ONLY had content "dlc" that was bought with crowns or having a sub.

    We had the option to buy the content "dlc" if we didn't sub with crowns, many people have horded crowns like squirrels and nuts prepping for winter. That sucks.

    So far things seemed decent, but you are right, as a business they have the right to alter things. Like the whole dlc/expansion/chapter fiasco.

    Like many others have said, it does seem shady.
  • Bam_Bam
    Bam_Bam
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    NovaShadow wrote: »
    I didn't realise the DLC was already released.
    It must've been for you cannot possibly say something is valuable until you've experienced it.

    I've never bought a vial of crack.
    I've also never bought a bulldozer.
    Yet I can objectively say there is more "value" in the bulldozer than a vial of crack.

    not to an addict though
    Joined January 2014
    PC EU - PvE & BGs & PvP (Vivec)
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  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    However shady it seems, it seems technically legitimate to me....and objectively represents HIGHER VALUE, so I'm more than willing to excuse the fact that Zos isn't building their entire business model around the assumptions of people who tried to horde crowns incorrectly expecting to be able to buy every piece of content that ever came out with crowns.
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    Baranthus wrote: »
    not to an addict though

    Of course. It's like a drug dealer that has made enough money off the addicts and is now trying to "go legit" and opening a regular store.
    Edited by willlienellson on February 1, 2017 12:52AM
  • willlienellson
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    Bumping my own thread to make a point, because I don't want to bump all the complainers threads.

    We subscribe monthly. We didn't promise that we would subscribe permanently, did we?

    So why are we acting like Zos is obligated to offer the same benefits to subscription permanently?


    Both parties get to revaluate the arrangement.

    Your cable company doesn't HAVE to include your favorite channel in the package you buy, and you don't HAVE to keep subscribing to that package.

    This is how commerce works.

    This is literally about the most honest, least shady thing Zos has done in a long time.

    They are telling you 6 months in advance that they are going to change what is included in the subscription. Has a cable TV provider ever done that?

    And the change is one that moves to MORE VALUED for the consumers and MORE TRANSPARENCY.

    I spend a lot of time arguing against Zos, but times like this...I start to understand why they treat the player base like they do. So many of us act like children.
  • MLGProPlayer
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    When did Zos promise that all future content would be available for crowns? I think people made assumptions based on the fact that DLC's were available for crowns, and they could save their crowns to buy them, that ALL FUTURE content would be delivered in the same way. I think that was foolish.

    They promised that all future downloadable content would be included with the subscription. The difference ebtween an expansion and a DLC is in name only. ZOS is relying on that.

    There was nothing foolish about expecting all future content to be covered by a sub.
    Furthermore, Zos is free at any point to change it's membership offering for the future. As consumers we don't get to "cry foul" when a company chooses to offer a different product for a different price in the future. We only get to cry foul when they misrepresent a product for sale.

    They are free to change their membership offering at any point, but that doesn't mean it's ethical.

    There is a reason why Westjet is considered a model airline, while Air Canada or Delta are considered crooks. They both operate within the parameters of legal business practice. But how you treat your customers goes a long way towards how you are perceived.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on February 1, 2017 5:06AM
  • Norn
    Norn
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    40$ for a trial and a class(that may or may not be good) doesn't scream value to me.
  • Jagula0901
    Norn wrote: »
    40$ for a trial and a class(that may or may not be good) doesn't scream value to me.

    Sounded like there was PvE story content as well the battlegrounds.
  • Rev Rielle
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    NovaShadow wrote: »
    I didn't realise the DLC was already released.

    It must've been for you cannot possibly say something is valuable until you've experienced it.

    I agree.

    The absolute mountain of hearsay, conjecture and misinformation on the forums by users in the last 12 hours is simply astounding.
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete, already released game.

    Vvardenfell IS DLC

    Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.

    I'm OK with things changing, but I want ZOS to admit their business model failed, AGAIN, then they were forced by the bean counters to go back on their word, again.

    In fact I will pay $100 for a special edition of Vvardenfell. They can keep the stupid dwemer statue, I just want it to include a signed handwritten letter from Matt Firror that reads "Sorry, we dun goofed again"
  • Enslaved
    Enslaved
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    I agree with OP.

    Ppl were buying mounts for 35 euros. Con crates filled with "useful consumables". 10 euros for broken personality. etc.

    Vvanderfell will be biggest DLC this game has ever recieved. Hey, maybe battlegrounds will be cheese fest, maybe new trial will be doable by 0.5% of all ESO population ever, maybe Warden will be op af or useless. But no one can deny that all we will get is much more for 40 euros than any 35 euro mount would ever provide.

    What I hope for is maybe some bank space upgrade, even maybe 2-3 more buyable slots for our future Wardens.
    And yes, I will spend 70 euros on digital CE upgrade. 30 euros for mount I like, pet skin I like better than brown bear, costume that can't simply be worse than breton hero one, and that mechanical digimon dwemer pet thingy that I will never equip lol. Seems I will also get a con crate in that deal...
    Edited by Enslaved on February 1, 2017 7:55AM
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    Norn wrote: »
    40$ for a trial and a class(that may or may not be good) doesn't scream value to me.
    for a trail and a class....and a zone...and quests...and battleground pvp....and a free motif...and a costume....and a mount..and whatever else.
    Enslaved wrote: »
    And yes, I will spend 70 euros on digital CE upgrade. 30 euros for mount I like..
    Pretty great looking mount comes included free with presale.
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
    Do you have any idea how crazy that sounds? FOREVER?

    World of Warcraft is 13 years old. So, you think Zos promised you that something it released in 2027 will be included in the subscription model created in 2014?

    Reading these threads, if I were Zos, I would say, "Subscriptions now include access to Morrowind. Cause you say we promised. But subscriptions now cost $29.99 a month.

    Seriously, would you people feel better if the subscription included what you feel "entitled" to but the subscription cost doubled or tripled in price? Or did Zos promise you content forever and the 2014 prices forever too? lolol
  • Yolokin_Swagonborn
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    Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
    Do you have any idea how crazy that sounds? FOREVER?

    World of Warcraft is 13 years old. So, you think Zos promised you that something it released in 2027 will be included in the subscription model created in 2014?

    Reading these threads, if I were Zos, I would say, "Subscriptions now include access to Morrowind. Cause you say we promised. But subscriptions now cost $29.99 a month.

    Seriously, would you people feel better if the subscription included what you feel "entitled" to but the subscription cost doubled or tripled in price? Or did Zos promise you content forever and the 2014 prices forever too? lolol

    I don't care how crazy it sounds. It wasn't my promise. I once entered a contest for a lifetimes supply of Dr. Pepper. Silly company didn't know how much Dr. Pepper teenage me could drink. I wasn't worried about their semantic definition of "lifetime supply" if companies offer you something most people will take them up on it and get upset when they pull the rug out from under you.
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    I don't care how crazy it sounds. It wasn't my promise.
    Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?

    I saw you post a comment from Zos in another thread that said, "Expect to see quarterly DLC"
    I don't interpret that as a promise at all, much less one forever.

    What else ya got? I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you. B)
  • Norn
    Norn
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    Norn wrote: »
    40$ for a trial and a class(that may or may not be good) doesn't scream value to me.
    for a trail and a class....

    Rest I don't really care.
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    Norn wrote: »
    Rest I don't really care.
    Well then it totally doesn't count...If you don't care.
  • driosketch
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    Basically this. The Morrowind expansion is looking like a good value. But ZOS's crown store marketing has burned customers enough times thier good will has eroded.

    ZOS will make money on this, no doubt. And if that's all they care about, fine, but they could have been having fun too. The forums should've been full of hype post rather than this ****storm.
    Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
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  • Mx13
    Mx13
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    Two things are going on here.

    ESO offering a sizable chunk of content for a decent price = GOOD

    ESO changing their business model yet again and screwing over existing subscribers = BAD
    eso-plus.jpg


    If my wireless carrier offers a new plan that gives me a ton of data for a reasonable price, then that is a good deal on its own merits.

    However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used anymore when the new plan is launched, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

    I dont see the crafting bag and costume dyeing on that list tho

    Also are you telling me that you, Yolokin_Whinenborn, are a eso+ member? lol
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    driosketch wrote: »
    ZOS will make money on this, no doubt. And if that's all they care about, fine, but they could have been having fun too. The forums should've been full of hype post rather than this ****storm.
    I'm convinced the forum will always be a *** storm no matter what happens.

    I still don't understand why people thought they were promised all future content forever included the subscription for 2014 prices.

    The whole thing seems equal parts hilarious and sad.
  • Acrolas
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    People are always trying to judge the "ethics" of companies based on things like their social responsibility or their environmental impact, but way back in the day we judged a company's ethics by if they delivered VALUE to consumers. It's still one of the cornerstones of business ethics (for people actually in business) and is the other side of the coin of Marketing.

    Yet thanks to consequentialism we can judge both global and individual benefits simultaneously.

    Most people won't though, because it's a rough mirror to look into.
    signing off
  • willlienellson
    willlienellson
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    Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.
    Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
    ... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you. B)

    A day later.......

    *crickets*
    *crickets*
    *crickets*
  • corrosivechains
    corrosivechains
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    Two things are going on here.

    ESO offering a sizable chunk of content for a decent price = GOOD

    ESO changing their business model yet again and screwing over existing subscribers = BAD
    eso-plus.jpg


    If my wireless carrier offers a new plan that gives me a ton of data for a reasonable price, then that is a good deal on its own merits.

    However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used anymore when the new plan is launched, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

    This exactly. The problem isn't the price. The problem is I already paid for it but still can't get it. We were lead to believe that all content would be available in crowns when they said all DLC would be.

    I'll give you an analogy of my own.

    A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
    So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
    The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
    So you feel betrayed.

    But you weren't.

    This analogy isn't comparable. To make it comparable, let's say the burger joint offered a customer loyalty rewards card that you could load up with prepaid cash. You do so because hey, 1 card is easier to keep track of than a wad of cash. Now they release a new triple cheeseburger and you go in with your prepaid loyalty reward card to buy this new burger. Then the guy or girl behind the counter tells you that you can't use the card because it only applies to burgers that were available up to the release of the loyalty reward card, not any burgers put on the menu after.

    "Could you post me a link to the official MMO rule book please." - clayandaudrey_ESO
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