Morrowind expansion = Value....FINALLY!

Wifeaggro13

willlienellson wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

experience the Chapter as a 30-hour game

Well, that is disappointing. I don't know if they clarified it or I just had wishful thinking, but I really thought it was just the main quest line as 30 hours. I still say this is a move in the right direction and represents better value than we've seen from Zos lately. I guess we'll have to wait and see how many hours of actual gameplay (not counting PvP) we get from the game, but I do think an "expansion/chapter" should be more hours of gameplay.

I wonder how many hours of gameplay came with the GW2 expansion?

I am thinking the price point for this is more like 30 bucks. not only is it light on questing for the solo centric churn player , the end game activities and battle grounds are very minimalistic. a true 40 dollar expansion would have far more group stuff and the solo side would have at least another layer of alternate advancment the only justifcation i can see this not being a dlc is the new class. to me it looks like a double dip once again from zos. the seperated the dungeon DLC , and game system dlc . it does not matter to me honestly because i sub when i play. And i see no issue with them charging for this expansion but its not worth anywhere near 40 dollars, thats almost the price of a full game. ZOS has the greed machine on in full force and its starting to bite them back with the casual market they are trying to appease.

Ojustaboo

The thing is, while I suspect it's not legally binding (probably depends where you live) I just watched the ESO Live of One Tameriel and they did say that Clockwork City can be purchased or got with ESO plus.

Watch from 16:50 to 18:40

Right now you are looking at Orsinium or Wrothgar which is probably scheduled to be one of our earlier packs and you know, if you decide you want to buy it separately as dlc you can do that, if you decide you want to become an ESO Plus member, then this will come with ESO Plus, and I think thats one of the cool things, so for people who still like kind of the model that goes with subscription, the dlc will absolutely support that, here you can see some work we've done with Clockwork City. So there's a lot of cool places that people are going to want to visit and open up and there's multiple ways to get to these areas, and its basically just allowing people who want the option of how they want the dlc, how they want to pay for it, it's giving them more option.

That being the case, maybe those saying the expansion shouldn't be an additional cost have a point?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RxYZLOS5Jw

heaven13

willlienellson wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

...I don't agree with is that Morrowind is anything more than a DLC, from what I've seen and heard I don't see anything that would really set it apart from say Orsinium...

I could be wrong as well but it sounds HUGE.

The main story is quoted as 30 hours. I get the impression there will also be a new Morag Tong guild and story.

Then you get a new class which opens up tons of doors.

Then you get a new type of PVP, which for me could mean easily hundreds of hours in the end.

Then all the little add-ons like included free mounts, armor motifs, etc.

The Orsinium "package" was like 5000 crowns I think which equates to like a bit under $40.

For 50% more cost, this seems like 300% more content.

Only time will tell, but I see no reason not to be extrmely optimistic based on what I've read about the expansion and the plans layer out for 2017.

Bolded for emphasis as it's incorrect.

The standard Morrowind upgrade includes, at price point of $39.99 USD:

• Warden Costume
• Dwarven War Dog Pet
• Treasure Maps
• Dwarven Crown Crate (1)
• Experience Scrolls (not listed how many though 2 are pictured)

The collector's Morrowind upgrade includes, at a price point of $59.99 USD

• Same as above as well as:
• Armored War Horse
• Dwarven Spider Pet
• Morag Tong Converter (not a motif, likely similar to Imperial converter)
• Grey War Bar
• Character Emotes

You're paying extra for that content, if you want it. It's not "free" add-ons.

DaveMoeDee

Stopnaggin wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

willlienellson wrote: »

"Join Sprint's Unlimited Data plan and never be charged overages again"

Which means, SO LONG AS THEY OFFER THAT PACKAGE.

Nobody in their right minds would suggest Sprint is now obligated (legally or morally) to offer an unlimited package forever.

Oh the joys of arguing with you



My original claim:

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Full access to DLC was promised to subscribers in perpetuity.

Your challenge:

willlienellson wrote: »

Can I get a source on this "promise in perpetuity"?
... I'm anxious to read these wedding vow like promises Zos made to you.

My response:

What Pete Hines ACTUALLY said on ESO LIVE in relation to subscribers:

So the idea there as it relates to DLC is I dont EVER have to worry about what DLC is coming out when, I just get to play ALL OF IT.

I never said they were legally obligated to keep their word, I just implied they were scumbags for going back on it. There is no such thing as moral obligation. You have every right to break your word as I have every right to call you scum for doing so. But that is irrelevant. Your challenge was simple. Provide evidence of a promise. Evidence provided. You can eat one of these now.

Just for kicks where is the "promise" in that staement? I see an "idea" and "expect" in the previous statements. I have subbed since launch I have had access to all dlc, 1500 crowns a month, xp and gold gains, and more recently a craft bag, in now way do I feel duped or cheated.

I will go a step further. I paid $60 for the base game and $20 or so for the Imperial edition upgrade. I got well over 80 hours of play, less that 1 dollar per hour. I sub for $15 a month, which gives me 1500 crowns, and equal value as they are sold, and access to the aforementioned items. I get to play more that 15 hours a month, so still under $1 per hour. The real question is are you getting value for your money? If so be happy, play the game and enjoy. If not then it may be time to move along.

I paid $1 for an idle/clicker game and got 500 hours of play out of it! What a value!!! I got CS:GO for $20 and played online for 1000 hours! I got DOTA 2 for free and played for 600 hours! ESO is a ripoff! While I haven't done any of the earlier examples, I have played Civ V a ton. I have played Skyrim a ton. If we are talking about my enjoyment hours per dollar spent, infrastructure costs (for servers) are irrelevant so Skyrim being a single player game doesn't matter. Profit margins have no direct influence on my value function.

You are correct that the subjective valuation of what you are getting from the money you spend is what it boils down to. But imagine you go to a restaurant that you love. You usually have a great experience. But this evening, the service staff is really rude. The food is still delicious, but the front of the house is horrible. Is it fair to complain about it on Yelp? If you did, would it also be fair to continue eating there? I say 'yes' and 'yes'.

People also need to stop with the $15=1500 crowns argument because it is not realistic to think someone who spends $180 a year on a sub would buy $15 packs at full price over and over again if they didn't have a sub and they know about the regular sales when they happen. This is like insisting on talking about the unit cost of toilet paper using the cost of buying it one at a time instead of 18 roll packs and ignoring sale prices, even though TP goes on sale all the time. Or cereal in single serving boxes at full price even though the cereal boxes are given artificially high prices so they can be on sale half the time and the consumer in question know they would finish a large box in 3 weeks, long before it expires. Sure, many people suck at planning and only buy things when they run out and want them immediately. But even those people would likely stock up on crowns when they are on sale.

The Hines statement above is also damning. The response trying to change the meaning to the new policies feels dishonest. He was marketing the sub with a clear message to convince people to sub. It is irrelevant whether it is legally binding or there is a plausible other interpretation (which there ALWAYS is) unless people are suing. What is relevant is that he said one thing to convince people to get their access to additional content through a sub instead of a crown purchase and then the company changed terms in a way that went against his marketing. I do not doubt that this was never intended as a deception and the plan probably truly was 4 DLC a year. Nevertheless, it does show that you cannot trust ZOS to prioritize giving value to people who sub, even though they are the people who generally spend the most individually to support the game. This does not matter to some who sub, which is fine.

I find a particular argument I have heard to be absurd. It is counting free updates like One Tamriel as fulfillment of the 4 additional content per year. Claiming that OT fulfills that is the same as saying that ZOS intentionally tried to mislead people's expectations so that they would sub by relating free updates to being able to maintain access to DLC through a sub. A sub has no relevance to maintaining access to free updates. My assumption is more generous -- that business realities forced them to table DLC in order to finish updates like housing and One Tamriel that took more dev attention than expected.

DaveMoeDee

Jemcrystal wrote: »

I am happy to defend the subscribers but lately I have been getting tired of the "this mmo went to crap since we let those free players in" attitude (on various forums outside this game and some times even here). Umm, scuze me? I am a free mmorpg player and my life and soul are as valuable as yours. There is nothing about my FREE azz that has ruined your game. I have supported and upheld it in conversations across the internet. No I did not buy anything from the cash shop. No I did not buy anything in the crown store. Yes I agree ZoS should increase the value of subscriptions by offering them more than us free players have. But I did not ruin your game or have anything to do with this decision by ZoS. And if I get any more people trying to blame me for ZoS decision I am going to change my leaf and ask for this game to go NO SUB.

Freeloader!!!

Not even DLC? I enjoyed the DLC.

willlienellson

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Clockwork City

What makes you think they are lying? The expansion is called Morrowind, not Clockwork City. They said they are releasing other DLCs this year. Maybe one of those Clockwork City.

_adhyffbjjjf12

i've just read about morrowind, now if the scale of morrowind is accurate then morrowind + housing is going to get my sub back (i stopped a year ago because of pvp performance issues) To be clear i've subbed in a mmorpg + cash shop for over 15 years and will almost certainly do for the rest of my life - exciting news it has to be said. Up to you Zenimax, do it right and you have my money!

_adhyffbjjjf12

^ plus morrowind music please, awesome sauce.

willlienellson

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

i've just read about morrowind, now if the scale of morrowind is accurate then morrowind + housing is going to get my sub back!

I wish I had as much enthusiasm about housing as I did Morrowind. I've spent a lot of time testing it out on the PTS and the value I see in the upcoming Morrowind expansion is really lacking from Homestead. Seems either really poorly thought out or deliberately hindered so they can sell basic upgrades later. Not sure which is worse.

Sausage

30 for 40 bucks sounds pretty decent, not to mention if you play the new Class too and other extras.

Elsterchen

willlienellson wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used in the new plan, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

FWIW, that happens all the time.
But I take your point.

However, I think you are misunderstanding the agreement you have with Zos.

You subscribe for a month. You have access to all current and previous DLC for that month. They aren't obligated to continue that arrangement permanently into the future. They aren't obligated to give access to all future content nor to sell all future content for crowns.

When did Zos promise that all future content would be available for crowns? I think people made assumptions based on the fact that DLC's were available for crowns, and they could save their crowns to buy them, that ALL FUTURE content would be delivered in the same way. I think that was foolish.

Furthermore, Zos is free at any point to change it's membership offering for the future. As consumers we don't get to "cry foul" when a company chooses to offer a different product for a different price in the future. We only get to cry foul when they misrepresent a product for sale.

People are complaining as if they subscribed this month expecting access to Morrowind this month, and found out it's not included.

We have several months advanced notice to decide if subscribing is worth it or not considering what a subscription will and will not include in June 2017.

I'll give you an analogy of my own.

A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
So you feel betrayed.

But you weren't.

Basically I do agree with most things you say, but can you please provide an official definition of "expansion" . The FAQs provide an explanation about DLCs but none for "expansion".

I agree that markets change and so do prices for hamburgers, but ZOS isn't selling a hamburger. Out of the blue its creating a new category of product and puts a price tag on it. There is no explantion about the new product that answers basic questions: Why is it better then the last product? What exactly is the fundamental difference that justifies the price? Why should I spend real money on it, while I did pay a monthly ESO+ with the assurance of access to all downloadable content?

Nada, and sorry to say: BUT this is an example of really really bad customer relations.

The sceptism of the customers was foreseable and alot of buzz and puzzled customer could have been prevented beforehand. Just explain it. ZOS, we are grown ups you know, we do not need to be treated like childeren. (...and we do feel kind of betrayed if one does!)

Do you see the trouble ppl might have with morrowind?

willlienellson

Elsterchen wrote: »

Do you see the trouble ppl might have with morrowind?

No. Not really.

Elsterchen wrote: »

alot of buzz and puzzled customer could have been prevented beforehand. Just explain it. ZOS, we are grown ups you know, we do not need to be treated like childeren.

They did. They gave you almost 6 months advance notice and everyone.......acted like children.

Elsterchen wrote: »

Out of the blue its creating a new category of product and puts a price tag on it. There is no explantion about the new product that answers basic questions: Why is it better then the last product? What exactly is the fundamental difference that justifies the price? Why should I spend real money on it

This paragraph is so nonsensical in so many ways.

1) Creating a product and putting a price tag on it? That's what business does.
2) They did explain it. You don't have to accept it, but don't pretend it hasn't been explained.
3) It doesn't have to be better than the last product. Prices go up, they go down, deal with it.
4) They don't need to justify the price. If you don't find it valuable, then don't purchase it.

You act like Zos is a utility provider regulated by the government that needs to justify some price increase for it's services. Sheesh.

5) "Why should I spend real money on it" And bingo you just proved the premise of this entire thread. You equate real CURRENCY to costing you real money but somehow forget that you spent "real money" to buy the fake currency you usually use.

xeneblaze

Morrowind is almost the price of a full game, lets not forget that. The mount, costumes etc only come with a pre-order of it too, so if you prefer to wait and see, the value of that expansion stands on the content of that expansion alone. Pre-ordering games is a nonsense just for cosmetic items or early access for example, and is increasingly being frowned upon by gamers everywhere. I hope it will be great, but I wont be pre-ordering it - that's a fools thing to do in this current climate of 'pre-order, be disappointed later'.

PinkFreud

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Vvardenfell IS DLC

No, it isn't. It is classified by ZOS as an expansion, not DLC. It will not available from the Crown Store, like other DLC. It must be purchased, like the expansions for other games.

You may claim that, because the code and resources can be downloaded using the digital purchase option, that it is therefore DLC. However, using that logic, the base game itself would be considered DLC, since it can be purchased digitally, and no one is so foolish as to suggest that the base game is DLC and as such should be free to subscribers.

Osteos

PinkFreud wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Vvardenfell IS DLC

No, it isn't. It is classified by ZOS as an expansion, not DLC. It will not available from the Crown Store, like other DLC. It must be purchased, like the expansions for other games.

You may claim that, because the code and resources can be downloaded using the digital purchase option, that it is therefore DLC. However, using that logic, the base game itself would be considered DLC, since it can be purchased digitally, and no one is so foolish as to suggest that the base game is DLC and as such should be free to subscribers.

Just wait its still early in the day

Cherryblossom

willlienellson wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

...I don't agree with is that Morrowind is anything more than a DLC, from what I've seen and heard I don't see anything that would really set it apart from say Orsinium...

I could be wrong as well but it sounds HUGE.

The main story is quoted as 30 hours. I get the impression there will also be a new Morag Tong guild and story.

Then you get a new class which opens up tons of doors.

Then you get a new type of PVP, which for me could mean easily hundreds of hours in the end.

Then all the little add-ons like included free mounts, armor motifs, etc.

The Orsinium "package" was like 5000 crowns I think which equates to like a bit under $40.

For 50% more cost, this seems like 300% more content.

Only time will tell, but I see no reason not to be extrmely optimistic based on what I've read about the expansion and the plans layer out for 2017.

@willlienellson
As mentioned Orsinium was quoted as 25 hours!

I'm really happy to see this new DLC, I too think it looks great and I'm looking forward to it. But this is a DLC they are marketing as an Expansion. At best this could be described as two DLC's rolled into one, but as they haven't managed to keep to the 4 DLC a year it's not surprising there are two things here...

As I've already said I've cancelled my Sub, I don't see it has any value now. I may as well just buy the bit's I want now.

schnooty

willlienellson wrote: »

You're comparing a Free-2-Play game with a Buy-2-Play game. I'm not sure that's an apt comparison.
I personally expected to....BUY the game, since it's B2P.

I could be wrong, but it appears that SWTOR doesn't "sell" any content. You're either a subscriber or a free player, right?

There is no buying of the game, buying of the expansions, etc, right?

So, if that's the case, then obviously they are all included in the sub because the subscription IS the product being sold.

I'm not sure, because I've never played SWTOR, but based on some quick internet research, it doesn't seem to be a fair comparison at all imo.

I purchased the game in Beta, so I never looked at the model now. I subscribe to both games. In SWTOR, I can play everything with no extra cost. In Elder Scrolls, I have to pay extra to play Morrowind today, but you can bet it will be part of the subscriber content in the near future. This is not unique to Elder Scrolls. New stuff costs now. Old stuff is free.

JWKe

I still don't see how the Expansion would be worth $59.99 that's a price of a new game where the devs have to build everything from the ground up whether it be combat or perhaps the graphic engine. With this expansion its simply just adding upon what is already existing. If anything a more reasonable price would be 49.99, and 29.99 with a running ESO+ membership.

willlienellson

Cherryblossom wrote: »

As mentioned Orsinium was quoted as 25 hours!

Fair enough, but this also comes with a new form of PvP (for me even more than 25hrs) and a new class which can then be applied to other existing content.

To me, that hits all the buttons for it being an expansion instead of a DLC when compared along side what has come with other expansions I've bought in the past in games like GW1 and GW2. This is standard imo.

Also, the subscription issue aside, when I compare the real dollar value of what you get with this compared to the other content since launch...I find much more potential value here. Much more.

Pangnirtung

willlienellson wrote: »

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Clockwork City

What makes you think they are lying? The expansion is called Morrowind, not Clockwork City. They said they are releasing other DLCs this year. Maybe one of those Clockwork City.

Wasnt the plan to have a DLC four times a year?

t3hdubzy

If you all notice Zos barely replies to any of these threads and fully expected the backlash i am sure. They are quietly waiting for this to all blow over and will not respond outright to any of the facts. Eventually this will all blow over and some may go some may stay but Zos wins either way. Its the power of big companies and customers who arent able to actually do anything about it.


Just sayin, make as good of a case as you want the people that matter are ignoring your words.

Wifeaggro13

though i am actually happy they are making an expansion. they are very light on content compared to what other games charge for 40 bucks. here is a bullet point list of features the most recent Eq2 expac offered for 40 bucks.

1 New Overland Zone – Obulus Frontier
12 New Heroic zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
1 Challenge Heroic Zone – City of Mist
8 New Solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
4 New “Advanced” solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
6 New Raid Zones – Dalnir, Lost City of Torsis, Kaesora, Arcanna’se Spire, Vaedenmoor: Realm of Despair, and Vaedenmoor: Heart of Nightmares
50+ New Solo and Heroic Quests
65+ New Collection Quests
4 New Archetypal Epic 2.0 Questlines
4 New Ascension Classes – Etherealist, Elementalist, Thaumaturgist, and Terramancer.
New Wardrobe Feature
New Merc Gear Feature
12 new dungeons 6 new raids. and 4 new classes lol. while providing the same amount of casual solo questing ZOS provides.
Morrowind is over priced for sure. Was still a good move on ZOS part, now if they can quit focusing on the churn and start focusing on making content for the game that people can play long term.

driosketch

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

though i am actually happy they are making an expansion. they are very light on content compared to what other games charge for 40 bucks. here is a bullet point list of features the most recent Eq2 expac offered for 40 bucks.

1 New Overland Zone – Obulus Frontier
12 New Heroic zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
1 Challenge Heroic Zone – City of Mist
8 New Solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
4 New “Advanced” solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
6 New Raid Zones – Dalnir, Lost City of Torsis, Kaesora, Arcanna’se Spire, Vaedenmoor: Realm of Despair, and Vaedenmoor: Heart of Nightmares
50+ New Solo and Heroic Quests
65+ New Collection Quests
4 New Archetypal Epic 2.0 Questlines
4 New Ascension Classes – Etherealist, Elementalist, Thaumaturgist, and Terramancer.
New Wardrobe Feature
New Merc Gear Feature
12 new dungeons 6 new raids. and 4 new classes lol. while providing the same amount of casual solo questing ZOS provides.
Morrowind is over priced for sure. Was still a good move on ZOS part, now if they can quit focusing on the churn and start focusing on making content for the game that people can play long term.

What does EQ2 consider a zone? Is it larger or smaller than say an Imperial city district?

Cadbury

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

though i am actually happy they are making an expansion. they are very light on content compared to what other games charge for 40 bucks. here is a bullet point list of features the most recent Eq2 expac offered for 40 bucks.

1 New Overland Zone – Obulus Frontier
12 New Heroic zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
1 Challenge Heroic Zone – City of Mist
8 New Solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
4 New “Advanced” solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
6 New Raid Zones – Dalnir, Lost City of Torsis, Kaesora, Arcanna’se Spire, Vaedenmoor: Realm of Despair, and Vaedenmoor: Heart of Nightmares
50+ New Solo and Heroic Quests
65+ New Collection Quests
4 New Archetypal Epic 2.0 Questlines
4 New Ascension Classes – Etherealist, Elementalist, Thaumaturgist, and Terramancer.
New Wardrobe Feature
New Merc Gear Feature
12 new dungeons 6 new raids. and 4 new classes lol. while providing the same amount of casual solo questing ZOS provides.
Morrowind is over priced for sure. Was still a good move on ZOS part, now if they can quit focusing on the churn and start focusing on making content for the game that people can play long term.

Personally, I think ZOS should be more concerned with the upcoming FFXIV Stormblood expansion.

CoconutMonkey06X

So I am relatively new to ESO (talking like lvl 30 here). Bought the game quite cheap at Target and have had a blast playing it. That being said, I think the ESO+ membership is a joke. It seems great at first but after awhile, it will eventually lose its value until you are actually overpaying for what you are getting. I much prefer to buy what I want/need now and not have to have any type of maintenance to keep it.

As for Morrowind being a quality value product, I think it is... at the $40 price point. I don't like that you need to pre-order it in order to get the full value of that. It is still on the pricey end of DLC (and lets be honest, we all know it is DLC) so the sheer amount of playtime provided with that is still yet to be determined as far as value. But based on face value, I think it seems legit.

I don't think their $60 package is worth it though. Entirely too much for a DLC + a mount and pet (not counting the other minor stuff). None of it has any real game impact to justify a full game price tag.

SnuggleMePlease

willlienellson wrote: »

As consumers we don't get to "cry foul" when a company chooses to offer a different product for a different price in the future. We only get to cry foul when they misrepresent a product for sale.[/b]

It isn't misrepresentation of a product so much as it is a misrepresentation of the service of ESO+. In addition to being promised access to all newly-released content, subscribers were promised a new DLC every quarter. ZoS has failed Subscribers on both counts. Even if you disagree with the notion that the Morrowind Expansion should be made available to ESO+ Subscribers, you must recognize the inherent ways in which its release devalues an ESO+ Subscription.

For one, ESO+ Subscribers have funded the development of the expansion itself. They have already paid for it. The bulk of ZoS' revenues comes from ESO+ Subscriptions. The time that ZoS could have spent developing a new DLC was instead spent developing the expansion. It is a slap in the face when you're asked to pay even more money for something you've already paid for the creation of. For 3 Quarters now, ESO+ Subscribers have been denied a new DLC as promised (I don't count Housing as it is just a money grab and adds no substantial benefits or functionality to your life in Tamriel. It is a smoke and mirrors version of new content, although it does have the potential to be improved). The Crafting Bag is useful, but it isn't really worth $14.99 in and of itself.

ZoS knows that they've *** up by shorting ESO+ Subscribers on their end of the bargain, which is why you see them pandering in forum posts such as this. In my opinion, this is an obvious attempt to stall people from unsubscribing from ESO+. I really doubt that ZoS will try to improve the ESO+ Subscription service, although I certainly hope they do for the game's sake.

willlienellson wrote: »

In general, I'm so disgusted by most of the people on here. Just a bunch of petulant and ignorant children, completely without logic.

Just like the people who keep saying "crowns go on sale" but refuse to acknowledge that Morrowind will also go on sale. lmao

I'm so sick of the way you people argue, so sick of the way you people think. It's no wonder people who don't play MMOs have no respect for those who do.

Get over yourself, please.

Frawr

It's straight up miss-selling of sub model wrapped up with a poor excuse of a different name.

Maybe this is acceptable business practice in America but over here it is known as false advertising could potentially open the door to such things as PayPal charge back.

willlienellson

SnuggleMePlease wrote: »

For one, ESO+ Subscribers have funded the development of the expansion itself. They have already paid for it.

Sorry, but that's not how commerce works.
When your local cable provider lays new lines and offers you a new higher speed at an increased cost, nobody goes, "Hey, my subscription the last two years funded the development of the new lines. I already paid for them!"

Wifeaggro13

driosketch wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

though i am actually happy they are making an expansion. they are very light on content compared to what other games charge for 40 bucks. here is a bullet point list of features the most recent Eq2 expac offered for 40 bucks.

1 New Overland Zone – Obulus Frontier
12 New Heroic zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
1 Challenge Heroic Zone – City of Mist
8 New Solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
4 New “Advanced” solo Zones – Dalnir, City of Mist, Kaesora, The Ruins of Cabilis, and Arcanna’se Spire
6 New Raid Zones – Dalnir, Lost City of Torsis, Kaesora, Arcanna’se Spire, Vaedenmoor: Realm of Despair, and Vaedenmoor: Heart of Nightmares
50+ New Solo and Heroic Quests
65+ New Collection Quests
4 New Archetypal Epic 2.0 Questlines
4 New Ascension Classes – Etherealist, Elementalist, Thaumaturgist, and Terramancer.
New Wardrobe Feature
New Merc Gear Feature
12 new dungeons 6 new raids. and 4 new classes lol. while providing the same amount of casual solo questing ZOS provides.
Morrowind is over priced for sure. Was still a good move on ZOS part, now if they can quit focusing on the churn and start focusing on making content for the game that people can play long term.

What does EQ2 consider a zone? Is it larger or smaller than say an Imperial city district?

It's fairly large . But eq 2 engine does rely on instancing more. EQ 2 xpacs content quantity is far more then Eso. On a longevity side Eq2 is months and months of content because it follows a progressive system . Eso is primarily a once run through story ,dailies and maybe a few weeks to a month of progression. Plus the classes they added are really another layer of AA. They are unlocked and accessed through a quest on your character. For more evolution for play longevity

willlienellson

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

Eso is primarily a once run through story

I will definitely agree with that.

I have yet to run a single piece of content in ESO that I actually wanted to repeat. Anything I've ever repeated was due to the necessity of grind.

I guess that's why I pvp so much. And that may be why I see a lot of value in Morrowind. Because even though I'm excited about playing it, the introduction of another form of PvP just doubled what I've been treating as "end game".

I don't remember feeling this way in other games.
When I played Guild Wars 1, it was just pure fun to run a dungeon. It was a mental challenge that needed no other reward and didn't need the pressure of grind to make you want to run it.

I think that's the big problem with ESO PVE. Challenging content is just about having enough dps...or enough heals. It's never really mentally challenging.

Just grind to get gear so you can grind a new place for new gear.

In GW1, there were things you had to "figure out" like bringing this skill "frozen ground" that would keep the Mobs from reviving each other. and little things like that.

All skill selection in ESO is about maximizing dps....or minimizing damage taken. Not using unique skills to combat unique challenges.

So more PvP in Morrowind. Yippie!