Morrowind expansion = Value....FINALLY!

M0bi

*Sigh*

Access to all future downloadable content....

downloadable content

DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT

DLC

*ZoS releases Expansion*

"OMG THEY LIED TO US"

willlienellson

M0bi wrote: »

*Sigh*

Access to all future downloadable content....

downloadable content

DOWNLOADABLE CONTENT

DLC

*ZoS releases Expansion*

"OMG THEY LIED TO US"

By that logic, wouldn't you also be entitled to every single mount, costume, etc with your subscription?

IwakuraLain42

If you see value in the Expansion (after ignoring the hype) is up to you, but what I see what we get (judging according to the announcements and ZOS's track record from the last years) is the following:

• a zone which is slightly larger then Orsinium with solo quests for 30 hours (includes main and side quests)
• a handful of delves
• a handful of World Bosses which are challenging for most players
• maybe one or two public dungeons
• a new class
• (another) trial with a (probably) brain damaged simple Normal mode and a Veteran mode that can only be completed by 20-30 players in the total player base
• a new PvP mode where we have very, very few informations
• probably a few new styles and the corresponding daily grinding quests to get them
• the usual balance changes
• (if you preorder): a bunch of cosmetic items

What we most likely not get is the following:

• any new 4-player group dungeons (because the dungeon team will have been busy with the trial and the dungeon DLC in Q3)

If this is worth $40 is something that only yourself can answer .... :-)

driosketch

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

If you see value in the Expansion (after ignoring the hype) is up to you, but what I see what we get (judging according to the announcements and ZOS's track record from the last years) is the following:

• a zone which is slightly larger then Orsinium with solo quests for 30 hours (includes main and side quests)
• a handful of delves
• a handful of World Bosses which are challenging for most players
• maybe one or two public dungeons
• a new class
• (another) trial with a (probably) brain damaged simple Normal mode and a Veteran mode that can only be completed by 20-30 players in the total player base
• a new PvP mode where we have very, very few informations
• probably a few new styles and the corresponding daily grinding quests to get them
• the usual balance changes
• (if you preorder): a bunch of cosmetic items

What we most likely not get is the following:

• any new 4-player group dungeons (because the dungeon team will have been busy with the trial and the dungeon DLC in Q3)

If this is worth $40 is something that only yourself can answer .... :-)

I mean even with this conservative description of the content, using the base price of 1500 crowns per $15, Orsinium was $30 ($50 for the cosmetics bundle), while an elk was $45. Relatively speaking, you're already getting a bigger bang for buck short of stocking up on sale crowns.

Zolron

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

H

I'll give you an analogy of my own.

A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
So you feel betrayed.

But you weren't.

Thats not a great analogy to be honest. A better analogy would be if the restaurant came up with a new super burger but guess what, you can not use gift cards to purchase it even though you did pay cash for the gift card...That doesn't make sense and nor does Zos not allowing me to use crowns I paid for ( outside of my ESO+ membership )

Rosveen

driosketch wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

If you see value in the Expansion (after ignoring the hype) is up to you, but what I see what we get (judging according to the announcements and ZOS's track record from the last years) is the following:

• a zone which is slightly larger then Orsinium with solo quests for 30 hours (includes main and side quests)
• a handful of delves
• a handful of World Bosses which are challenging for most players
• maybe one or two public dungeons
• a new class
• (another) trial with a (probably) brain damaged simple Normal mode and a Veteran mode that can only be completed by 20-30 players in the total player base
• a new PvP mode where we have very, very few informations
• probably a few new styles and the corresponding daily grinding quests to get them
• the usual balance changes
• (if you preorder): a bunch of cosmetic items

What we most likely not get is the following:

• any new 4-player group dungeons (because the dungeon team will have been busy with the trial and the dungeon DLC in Q3)

If this is worth $40 is something that only yourself can answer .... :-)

I mean even with this conservative description of the content, using the base price of 1500 crowns per $15, Orsinium was $30 ($50 for the cosmetics bundle), while an elk was $45. Relatively speaking, you're already getting a bigger bang for buck short of stocking up on sale crowns.

Nobody pays $1 for 100 crowns. At most, Orsinium was $25 - the standard price of a 3000 crown pack.

driosketch

Rosveen wrote: »

driosketch wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

If you see value in the Expansion (after ignoring the hype) is up to you, but what I see what we get (judging according to the announcements and ZOS's track record from the last years) is the following:

• a zone which is slightly larger then Orsinium with solo quests for 30 hours (includes main and side quests)
• a handful of delves
• a handful of World Bosses which are challenging for most players
• maybe one or two public dungeons
• a new class
• (another) trial with a (probably) brain damaged simple Normal mode and a Veteran mode that can only be completed by 20-30 players in the total player base
• a new PvP mode where we have very, very few informations
• probably a few new styles and the corresponding daily grinding quests to get them
• the usual balance changes
• (if you preorder): a bunch of cosmetic items

What we most likely not get is the following:

• any new 4-player group dungeons (because the dungeon team will have been busy with the trial and the dungeon DLC in Q3)

If this is worth $40 is something that only yourself can answer .... :-)

I mean even with this conservative description of the content, using the base price of 1500 crowns per $15, Orsinium was $30 ($50 for the cosmetics bundle), while an elk was $45. Relatively speaking, you're already getting a bigger bang for buck short of stocking up on sale crowns.

Nobody pays $1 for 100 crowns. At most, Orsinium was $25 - the standard price of a 3000 crown pack.

It gets nebulous if you start to treat discounted price points the same as the base. Say for instance you sub on XBox which only has a one month for $15 dollars. How do you factor in the ESO+ perks? Maybe craft bags are worth the full price of the sub to you so the extra crowns are functionally free. If you buy a 5500 crown pack as well, do you average it out to $1 for 175 crowns? You still spent $55 in real money before receiving a total of 7,000 in virtual currency.

Now suppose some vendor, say Steam during the following winter sale, sells Morrowind 25% off. Do you now consider the expansion to cost $30? This is why I think it's best to think of 100 crowns as $1.00 in real money as the base point, and anything better than that as a discount or deal.

Salahadin

willlienellson wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used in the new plan, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

FWIW, that happens all the time.
But I take your point.

However, I think you are misunderstanding the agreement you have with Zos.

You subscribe for a month. You have access to all current and previous DLC for that month. They aren't obligated to continue that arrangement permanently into the future. They aren't obligated to give access to all future content nor to sell all future content for crowns.

When did Zos promise that all future content would be available for crowns? I think people made assumptions based on the fact that DLC's were available for crowns, and they could save their crowns to buy them, that ALL FUTURE content would be delivered in the same way. I think that was foolish.

Furthermore, Zos is free at any point to change it's membership offering for the future. As consumers we don't get to "cry foul" when a company chooses to offer a different product for a different price in the future. We only get to cry foul when they misrepresent a product for sale.

People are complaining as if they subscribed this month expecting access to Morrowind this month, and found out it's not included.

We have several months advanced notice to decide if subscribing is worth it or not considering what a subscription will and will not include in June 2017.

I'll give you an analogy of my own.

A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
So you feel betrayed.

But you weren't.

Your understanding of Crowns and agreement with Zos is wrong.
First of, the game is Elder Scrolls Online, and it's content is Tamriel as a whole not as previously single player games from Bethesda released as partial stand alone stories. They even made playable content to all players regrades of level and alliance to be able to play with all players everywhere under synonym "One Tamriel". Morrowind is only part of that map, and is POST-released as part of the game with it's own region.

I understand it, they have to charge for it, as they added value to existing game and playable content. However, it's clearly still a service provided under same Licence we bought with characters able to roam all regions with all it's content. And you even say that Zos is entitled to change offering membership offerings and refer to it as different product. That's just it, This is Not a different product. It's withing same ESO world.

Second. As to value of Crowns and marketing of them. Under Crown store, in description of: "OVERVIEW
The Crown Store can be accessed in-game to browse unique pets, mounts, costumes for your character, and other virtual goods and services. ..." This is a misrepresentation of the product as you stated yourself. Morrowind IS service and labeling it expansion or DLC does not give it exception to the fact, that it's still in-game service and has to be sold as part of existing in game currency. Zos already created new currency with special crown content as some random gamble content, that gives you access to very specific artist cosmetics and looks. If they outsourced this services and needed some conversion value of existing crowns to some stones that's their right. But this is bough with the in game currency(crowns) they advertised as such and limited it converted content to the use for this cosmetics only.

Third, Packing up worthless things that does not really add value just makes a higher price look more justified. Let me elaborate on that. Whole game of 3 Alliances with each 5 regions (plus whole pvp Cyrodil area) without dlc and starting areas is sold as a game for just under 30$. Now a new 1 Region will be added as "expansion", and this will justify a real money buy only for more then what the whole basic game? Come on. There is absolutely no logic and justification, adding things no one wants or not working as described -> referring to converter of armor, With Imperial version there was no limit on what will be convertible. Interestingly though, view month back as I subscribed, there still was option in store to upgrade to imperial version and buy it - now is gone. Why? To not point out, that there is no difference in to Morag Tong convertible, just different look with same limitation, no - thank you. And what's with excusable Grey War bear? What is exclusive, that it's grey and others will be brown? or that a new race Warden will play without bear at all if not bough though this pre-upgrade? There is no consistency to the policy and their offers. With labeling it as expansion, will it later get dlc for expansion? To pay with crowns or not? There is already gold version of game out. What will the new version be? Diamond? Platinum? GOTY Gold?
Please, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The game has much already. I will stop with what I have so far, this beast cannot be feed full.

As to your little analogy. the correct version would be:

A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.

The next day you find out they have added new offer: cheeseburgers, and you can't buy them with gift cards bought prior.
OR
The next day you find out that gift card can be only redeemed all at once. No change back policy. Well, enjoy.
[/quote]

Tasear

willlienellson wrote: »

However shady it seems, it seems technically legitimate to me....and objectively represents HIGHER VALUE, so I'm more than willing to excuse the fact that Zos isn't building their entire business model around the assumptions of people who tried to horde crowns incorrectly expecting to be able to buy every piece of content that ever came out with crowns.

Higher value because they lead you like a sheep to believe so.

wolonggong

willlienellson wrote: »

SECOND,
Due to that, it's very easy to make absolute worthless junk and sell it. SNIP

Your entire post can be easily dismantled by pointing out simple, actual facts.

1. Only a small amount of the player base actually spends money on anything in the game store because of what you are claiming to be great.

2. Korean/Chinese/Japanese game companies like Nexon are making far more money on far WORSE games because they know what the term "MICRO" in microtransactions actually means.

You can make "worthless junk" and slap a $19.99 price tag on it (or be more insane like place a $100 tag on a HOUSE!) and hope 1 in 10,000 players buy it or you can use your head and instead slap a $2.99 tag on it and get 1 in 500 to buy it and make far more money in the end.

This is why Nexon is a billion dollar gaming company and next to no Western gaming companies (that make online games) are. Just plain insane prices on worthless items that could have gotten them far more money in the end with lower prices.

Its a virtual item, there are no materials used so there is no loss if the price is low...bad choices by bad people that do not understand economics, the industry as a whole, or the people they are selling to.

Kaymorolis

mvffins wrote: »

a) Offering the entire game and all available DLCS for a significantly reduced price on occasions - A friend of mine was able to get all DLCs and the game recently for a much cheaper price than 6 months of being a subscriber......

I got mine in February (2017) from a Steam sale. ESO Gold (which includes 4 DLC) for $30. I also subscribed to ESO+. The craft bag and crowns alone is worth the price. Heck, aren't 1500 crowns normally $15 anyway? So really, everything other than the crowns is just icing on the ESO+ cake.

I will happily buy Morrowind - DLC or not.

FlyLionel

corrosivechains wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Two things are going on here.

ESO offering a sizable chunk of content for a decent price = GOOD

ESO changing their business model yet again and screwing over existing subscribers = BAD



If my wireless carrier offers a new plan that gives me a ton of data for a reasonable price, then that is a good deal on its own merits.

However, if my existing plan had rollover data, and the company tells me that all of my rollover data cant be used anymore when the new plan is launched, then I feel screwed for paying a higher price for a currency I felt i could use for future service.

This exactly. The problem isn't the price. The problem is I already paid for it but still can't get it. We were lead to believe that all content would be available in crowns when they said all DLC would be.

willlienellson wrote: »

I'll give you an analogy of my own.

A local restaurant has hamburgers on sale for $1.
So you buy a $30 gift card thinking you will go eat one hamburger each day for a month.
The next day you find out the sale is over and hamburgers are now $2.50
So you feel betrayed.

But you weren't.

This analogy isn't comparable. To make it comparable, let's say the burger joint offered a customer loyalty rewards card that you could load up with prepaid cash. You do so because hey, 1 card is easier to keep track of than a wad of cash. Now they release a new triple cheeseburger and you go in with your prepaid loyalty reward card to buy this new burger. Then the guy or girl behind the counter tells you that you can't use the card because it only applies to burgers that were available up to the release of the loyalty reward card, not any burgers put on the menu after.

You're still being lead to believe that DLC will be within the eso plus membership, which is true. This is an expansion unfortunately(Yes they did skip a Dlc this year, they must make it up with the next one. Or compensate somehow?). Are you serious about wanting Morrowind to be included? You have a zone bigger than Orsinium, automatically costs more to develop. New class, battlegrounds that everyone wanted almost since release. And finally a new trial, which took a year. The reason why it is not included is because on paper it's worth well over the sub cost (I pre ordered and forgot the cost lol..Im in Canada so it costs more I believe). 15 bucks for Morrowind? Really? We have yet to experience it fully but closer to release it can answer many questions(for people who are not sold). They are trying something new with an expansion, and honestly I am looking forward to a huge overhaul with the base patch compared to the rest. My 80 bucks since release and buying most of the dlc's are already worth it (buy crowns on sale; slick with it).

And the analogy is correct. You are being sold these single sliced cheeseburgers. Once they sold you a double cheeseburger (Orsinium10/10 without lag), and now they are selling the triple cheeseburger. Man, we pvp players are hungry for battlegrounds and all long time players wanted a new class(s). I will gladly go out of my way and get the triple. Meanwhile those of you who are renting* the DLC can continue to rent or drop your sub to show some sort of action if you feel ripped off. Personally I would drop my sub now and save the $ for Morrowind when it drops, but if you do that you get evicted with the dlc; right? Maybe it would have been a better idea to lower the price of Morrowind and give the trial and Bg's to the plus members? Who knows, they have went with this model and that is final. #Buy do not #Rent...Joking. Or am I? (X files theme plays).