No bubble to burst, that's why I'm asking.

So if I can solo tank the Manti I could be able to do everything else with a group?

I actually found this not too be too bad.

Go into VHR - Collect all the adds, over the bridge and both sides of the stairs.

Stay alive for 3 minutes. This will show your ability to keep a hold of block and manage resources.

As far as incoming damage, nothing will really prepare you for warrior on vhr... certain degree of skill.

If you can manage cradle of shadows as a tank, you're doing alright.
Veli on cradle hits hard with certain mechanics to watch for so this is a solid test in my opinion (even with heals)

https://youtu.be/vvLw2Z-supA

@Taylor_MB video is speed up, i was holding block all the time and mobs were always hitting me, just walking around to avoid the red what you should do anyways , if you just stand and block there everyone would die

Raghul wrote: »

@Taylor_MB video is speed up, i was holding block all the time and mobs were always hitting me, just walking around to avoid the red what you should do anyways , if you just stand and block there everyone would die

@Raghul Youre video is okay, but its best to agro everything and hold it still, the dps cannot aoe everything down while you are kiting them around like you where.. makes the dps output a lot lower than it needs to be..

@Taylor_MB Tanking end game on other classes other than a Dk is a lot harder on the team and player. and as most have said 90% of the end game guilds wont take anything but a DK because of the support that they give. being able to run sets like Alkosh, is why Dks are the top choice for tanks, other tanks require sets to help them not the group and without the group sets and support that a tank is suppose to give it makes it really hard on the healers and dps. dps output wont be as high, and healers will have to work twice as hard to keep you alive because you have no buffs that can give you stam back expect repentance and during a long boss fight there wont be any adds to do that on.. The issue, with Vet raids vs. normal is that in normal you can drop block for a few seconds to heavy attack or even to swap bars at the wrong moment wont kill you, in vet mode if block is dropped at all, you die from a one shot, or a wrong bar swap at the wrong time its an insta death.

Yes you can tank these with any class, I have done it; But in the end a DK will be better for end game play.. and you will get more people wanting to play with you, some people see a Temp tank or a Sorc tank and their instant reaction is "yuck." kick and replace with a DK. this is of course running with pugs. now if you have 11 friends to run raids with or a guild then they may not kick you for being something other then a DK, but they may have you OFF tank instead.

MrsVelius wrote: »

Raghul wrote: »

@Taylor_MB video is speed up, i was holding block all the time and mobs were always hitting me, just walking around to avoid the red what you should do anyways , if you just stand and block there everyone would die

@Raghul Youre video is okay, but its best to agro everything and hold it still, the dps cannot aoe everything down while you are kiting them around like you where.. makes the dps output a lot lower than it needs to be..

@Taylor_MB Tanking end game on other classes other than a Dk is a lot harder on the team and player. and as most have said 90% of the end game guilds wont take anything but a DK because of the support that they give. being able to run sets like Alkosh, is why Dks are the top choice for tanks, other tanks require sets to help them not the group and without the group sets and support that a tank is suppose to give it makes it really hard on the healers and dps. dps output wont be as high, and healers will have to work twice as hard to keep you alive because you have no buffs that can give you stam back expect repentance and during a long boss fight there wont be any adds to do that on.. The issue, with Vet raids vs. normal is that in normal you can drop block for a few seconds to heavy attack or even to swap bars at the wrong moment wont kill you, in vet mode if block is dropped at all, you die from a one shot, or a wrong bar swap at the wrong time its an insta death.

Yes you can tank these with any class, I have done it; But in the end a DK will be better for end game play.. and you will get more people wanting to play with you, some people see a Temp tank or a Sorc tank and their instant reaction is "yuck." kick and replace with a DK. this is of course running with pugs. now if you have 11 friends to run raids with or a guild then they may not kick you for being something other then a DK, but they may have you OFF tank instead.

The Templar tank is quite overlooked, and people just don't bother to with the L2P aspect. Templars have just as good resource managed as dks because they regen magicka faster and have a superior self-heal that uses magicka, not stamina, making the healers work LESS hard than with a DK. I've seen it a thousand times, people see @Woeler vids and march in a trial like they have the same healers and support and experience that he has and get wrecked as soon as heals are diverted or they make a mistake on the boss. You wear pretty much the exact same sets as dks, and the only thing u don't have is chains which is only need for one fight that requires 2 tanks anyway.

OH, I would never reccoment blazing shield at all, BoL all the way.See my earlier post.

Woeler wrote: »

Gaggin wrote: »

MrsVelius wrote: »

Raghul wrote: »

@Taylor_MB video is speed up, i was holding block all the time and mobs were always hitting me, just walking around to avoid the red what you should do anyways , if you just stand and block there everyone would die

@Raghul Youre video is okay, but its best to agro everything and hold it still, the dps cannot aoe everything down while you are kiting them around like you where.. makes the dps output a lot lower than it needs to be..

@Taylor_MB Tanking end game on other classes other than a Dk is a lot harder on the team and player. and as most have said 90% of the end game guilds wont take anything but a DK because of the support that they give. being able to run sets like Alkosh, is why Dks are the top choice for tanks, other tanks require sets to help them not the group and without the group sets and support that a tank is suppose to give it makes it really hard on the healers and dps. dps output wont be as high, and healers will have to work twice as hard to keep you alive because you have no buffs that can give you stam back expect repentance and during a long boss fight there wont be any adds to do that on.. The issue, with Vet raids vs. normal is that in normal you can drop block for a few seconds to heavy attack or even to swap bars at the wrong moment wont kill you, in vet mode if block is dropped at all, you die from a one shot, or a wrong bar swap at the wrong time its an insta death.

Yes you can tank these with any class, I have done it; But in the end a DK will be better for end game play.. and you will get more people wanting to play with you, some people see a Temp tank or a Sorc tank and their instant reaction is "yuck." kick and replace with a DK. this is of course running with pugs. now if you have 11 friends to run raids with or a guild then they may not kick you for being something other then a DK, but they may have you OFF tank instead.

The Templar tank is quite overlooked, and people just don't bother to with the L2P aspect. Templars have just as good resource managed as dks because they regen magicka faster and have a superior self-heal that uses magicka, not stamina, making the healers work LESS hard than with a DK. I've seen it a thousand times, people see @Woeler vids and march in a trial like they have the same healers and support and experience that he has and get wrecked as soon as heals are diverted or they make a mistake on the boss. You wear pretty much the exact same sets as dks, and the only thing u don't have is chains which is only need for one fight that requires 2 tanks anyway.

And no reasonable aoe root, and they have worse resource management, plus with the coagulating blood change a DK basically has his own breath of life. My opinion is that you still should not need that much self heal and vigor should suffice. Your healers are working anyway. It's not like healers stop healing or heal less when they have a templar tank. Springs and ritual are down, always. They will be doing the same thing as with any other tank. If you drop low, the reflex of your healer should be to heal you, and not wait for you to heal yourself. And if you don't get a heal you can always simply dodge.

Self sustained health in heavy fights isn't a thing. There is always aoe heals down, and if you want it or not, you're standing in them.

The only time I ever see any tank root in trials is for cast in maw, where u should have at least 1 dk tank anyway for twins. As a magdk dps I find myself snaring cats more with my eruption than anything, as they tend to run to our sorcs away from the tank. Templar tanks do NOT have worse resource management, they have different resource management. With channeled focus we regen magicka very quickly and don't have to spend stam to heal ourself or the party. I know you run with a super elite optimized group, so I can see how you wouldn't need much self-heals and therefore wouldn't find a Templar that appealing, but most tanks don't have that kind of healer support, with dps not dying to stupid ***. Yes majority of fights you are in the springs clumped up together, but lets be honest those fights could by tanked by any class. You don't suggest DKs over sorcs and NBs for stack n burn bosses, you suggests DKs cus of the axes, the warrior's channeled sweeps, fights where your groups need those igneous shields and a degree of self-sufficiency. I don't know how good the change to coagulating blood is going to be, but since it doesn't heal anyone else I'd imagine dk tanks will stick with vigor. I just did a particulary hectic aa HM(where i'm not standing in springs) where I healed myself over 50percent of the time. I can tank up to 4 axes with no heals or shard. I can heal myself through the warrior's channeled sweeps(ever have both healers get stoned/killed?). It's not to say you should favor Templar tanks if that's not what you want to do, but if you think dks are the only option or even the best option all the time you're wrong.
Also Templar tanks can debuff the boss with Power of the Light(don't tell me you have stamplar running it, 99.99% of groups don't have stamplars).

Any Dk tank can beat a Templar tank any day

Gaggin wrote: »

Mr_Apollo wrote: »

Heals? Perhaps. support? Hell no. Yes you can drop some healing auras to support your healers and damage output, but unlike a dk, you don't have Igneous shield for example which regains you stamina, gives a shield to everyone AND adds Major Mending. You also don't have Molten Armaments which add Spell damage and Weapon damage to everyone in your party. You don't have Chocking talons which will stuck enemies and also give them minor maim which will reduce their damage. At the end of the day, in a boss fight without a healer constantly giving you shards, youre screwed if your stamina goes down, a dk doesn't have that problem.

PS: Not to mention that everytime you pop an ultimate with a DK itll give you tons of resources back

We're talking trials here. Most mobs can't be rooted and even if they could you wouldn't want as it's better in most pulls to taunt everyone to you to cluster them up. Tanks should have minor main from heroic slash anyway, so that's redundant. In vet trials dps should be running the expensive pots, so that makes igneous weapons useless, and while the stam return on shileds is a better than nothing it's certainly not a game-breaker and doesn't make up for the fact that you have to use vigor to heal. The shields themselves really help when well-placed, but a 4k shield in trials isn't nearly as helpful as being healed to full-health on heavy damage phases like block n spreads, etc. If dks didn't have stamina problems, I'd never hear one ask for shards in raids but yet I do. The battle roar passive is the only edge dks have on resource management, but then Templars have channeled focus. As long you're competent and manage your resources correctly, you use a dk or a Templar with no issues. I can't even remember the last time I ran out of stam on a boss, there's too many synergies from dps to not have stamina.

Then you run with the wrong DK's. I can even tank AA hardmode fine without any shards or stamina support besides a pot and my passives. Not sure about a templar.

Asardes wrote: »

Buffs, debuffs and utility provided by DK tank for group are far better than those provided by a Templar tank.
DK can provide: Major Sorcery, Major Brutality, Minor Brutality, Major Fracture (AoE), Minor Maim, group shield, hard root, strong slow, chains - yes, even in trials there are mobs that can be chained and chains also work as a short duration taunt, and they are free if the mob can't be moved.
Templar can provide: Minor Sorcery, Minor Fracture (single target), Major Maim (only from ultimate). It can also provide stamina regeneration from repentance, but that doesn't benefit the group as much on a tank because the amount of stamina restored scales on the maximum stat, either magicka or stamina, and tank has less than healer or DD. Also you can only restore your own stamina if there's something to repent. For example in AA the adds may not die at the right time, or are too far away to repent when running out of stamina with axes aggroed. By comparison a DK tank using ingenous shield restores a bit of stamina and a bit of ultimate that contributes to the next warhorn. That in turn restores more resources. And that's totally independent on mobs. So you can sustain just fine even without shards, provided your magicka and ultimate regeneration is high enough.

I'm glad you're able to list every buff/debuff in a dk's tooltip, but as I pointed out above, most of those don't help in trials because they're already redundant. DPS already provide the major and minor sorcerys/brutalities, all classes have access to minor maim, root and chains are almost never used except in vmol(and tank NEVER use eruption or venomous breath). You also forgot the minor fracture/breach that only Templar tanks have access to, equivalent to roughly half an alkosh debuff(and it generates ulti). The fact that you're listing things that DK tanks never use in trials tells me you don't quite know what you're talking about here.

Ya some DKs I have run with have been wet behind the ears to be sure, however the tank in my core is a super solid dk and he manages to survive where most tanks fail. This game does require skill after all. I just think people rely way too much on their healers. If I have to ask for a shard or am in need of a heal, I feel kinda embarrassed about it. People rely way too much on their healers sometimes.