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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
PTS Feedback Thread for Nightblade Balance Improvements
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Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭@panreoss:
You're wrong, I think.
Incap is so easy to dodge or block and other Ultis just hit harder or were undodgable. The real problem (as many fellows stated) is the damageboost from steals. From stealth it won't be dodged and buffed, so it hits like a truck.
and you are right
as I wrote somewhere else whil ein open fight I dodge 50%+ incap strikes and I block 90% of them because +- I know when it can land on me and before land you can hear voice from activating this ulti to hit (I very rarely getting pure hit from this to get full damage with stun)
similiar I have while I fight in open fight instead of gang, 50%+ my incaps are just missed or most of them are blocked if they will hit finally
its seriously not a problem to just parry this ultiEdited by Edziu on January 27, 2017 11:14AM1 -
Duukar✭✭✭✭✭If Harvest Soul is receiving a cost increase to 70 from 50 then the range needs to be increased to 28 meters......
This would make it more in line with the intended flow of mNB.. Just like impale range increase.
This ulty is already DRAMATICALLY under performing......
In addition I IMPLORE ZoS to explore increasing the execute range of Impale to 30-35%.. In PvP this ability hardly ever lands unless I do everything perfectly or my opponent makes a big mistake.
This change would also increase mNB dps in high end PvE content.....Edited by Duukar on January 27, 2017 12:19PM5 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Please cancel the strife nerfBosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP1 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭Edited by Witar on January 27, 2017 5:27PMIt cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.7 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
@Paneross honestly, can you find a thread of people raging over getting killed by strife in pvp?
It was never overperforming. Strife has lower damage that force pulse and isn't even used anymore by magblades that raid. If they increased its damage to be on par with force pulse, I'd be ok with the cost increase, but that isn't happening.
Incap is another story, but debatable also.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
Lol why would I want every class nerfed to the ground? No, I simply just want balance. Also I've never been an advocate of "easy" content, and that goes for PvP as well. Which is why I typically play in Azura's star. The Strife nerf is justifiable IMO due to the difference in power/cost when compared to concealed weapon. However, the healing element of it needs to be buffed in order to make it worth slotting over force pulse
The change to death stroke is not balanced for multiple reasons:
1) It's single target, easily avoidable, and does comparable burst damage to Crescent Sweep, but without the DoT component while costing the same.
2) Stamblades have great burst, but terrible survivability. This is due to not having additional healing received or major mending. Nerfing their strength without improving their weakness is crippling to their class. Now ZOS could balance the nerf by providing the class with major mending, but then that will just make them less unique. Stamplars have major mending, and a class purge; which gives them great survivability, but now we're making their spammable undodgeable, we're giving them incredible burst with CS, and the change with Backlash. Where's the drawback?
Saying that things need to change because enough people have issues with something is an advocate for "easy mode", and will deteriorate this game into a talentless product.
If people want a game with a low skill cap, then play Skylanders. Although, if ZOS keeps up with this trend you may not have to.3 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
Lol why would I want every class nerfed to the ground? No, I simply just want balance. Also I've never been an advocate of "easy" content, and that goes for PvP as well. Which is why I typically play in Azura's star. The Strife nerf is justifiable IMO due to the difference in power/cost when compared to concealed weapon. However, the healing element of it needs to be buffed in order to make it worth slotting over force pulse
The change to death stroke is not balanced for multiple reasons:
1) It's single target, easily avoidable, and does comparable burst damage to Crescent Sweep, but without the DoT component while costing the same.
2) Stamblades have great burst, but terrible survivability. This is due to not having additional healing received or major mending. Nerfing their strength without improving their weakness is crippling to their class. Now ZOS could balance the nerf by providing the class with major mending, but then that will just make them less unique. Stamplars have major mending, and a class purge; which gives them great survivability, but now we're making their spammable undodgeable, we're giving them incredible burst with CS, and the change with Backlash. Where's the drawback?
Saying that things need to change because enough people have issues with something is an advocate for "easy mode", and will deteriorate this game into a talentless product.
If people want a game with a low skill cap, then play Skylanders. Although, if ZOS keeps up with this trend you may not have to.
Stamplars are in the worst spot in the game right now. You cannot even compare Stamplars to Stamblade. If you're losing to Stamplars it becomes a L2P issue.
Incap and Strife nerf is balance. You can't keep taking away from other classes every update and leave one alone. Incap NEEDED to be addressed if they wanted to leave Soul Harvest alone that would be fine. But insta win Incap needed a well deserved nerf.3 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Don't try to come up with valid arguments he is just a forum troll.cpuScientist wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
Lol why would I want every class nerfed to the ground? No, I simply just want balance. Also I've never been an advocate of "easy" content, and that goes for PvP as well. Which is why I typically play in Azura's star. The Strife nerf is justifiable IMO due to the difference in power/cost when compared to concealed weapon. However, the healing element of it needs to be buffed in order to make it worth slotting over force pulse
The change to death stroke is not balanced for multiple reasons:
1) It's single target, easily avoidable, and does comparable burst damage to Crescent Sweep, but without the DoT component while costing the same.
2) Stamblades have great burst, but terrible survivability. This is due to not having additional healing received or major mending. Nerfing their strength without improving their weakness is crippling to their class. Now ZOS could balance the nerf by providing the class with major mending, but then that will just make them less unique. Stamplars have major mending, and a class purge; which gives them great survivability, but now we're making their spammable undodgeable, we're giving them incredible burst with CS, and the change with Backlash. Where's the drawback?
Saying that things need to change because enough people have issues with something is an advocate for "easy mode", and will deteriorate this game into a talentless product.
If people want a game with a low skill cap, then play Skylanders. Although, if ZOS keeps up with this trend you may not have to.
Stamplars are in the worst spot in the game right now. You cannot even compare Stamplars to Stamblade. If you're losing to Stamplars it becomes a L2P issue.
Incap and Strife nerf is balance. You can't keep taking away from other classes every update and leave one alone. Incap NEEDED to be addressed if they wanted to leave Soul Harvest alone that would be fine. But insta win Incap needed a well deserved nerf.
Once again, you forget that you're in a PTS forum. @ZOS_GinaBruno can we make it so only people that have logged into the PTS can comment on here? We don't need useless feedback from people like @Paneross
Can we keep biased people out of the forums completely. So you can go away.
On live StamPlar is not so hot, not as bad as many make them out to be at ALL. But in the pts they are on solid ground, they will see more use this patch.3 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
Lol why would I want every class nerfed to the ground? No, I simply just want balance. Also I've never been an advocate of "easy" content, and that goes for PvP as well. Which is why I typically play in Azura's star. The Strife nerf is justifiable IMO due to the difference in power/cost when compared to concealed weapon. However, the healing element of it needs to be buffed in order to make it worth slotting over force pulse
The change to death stroke is not balanced for multiple reasons:
1) It's single target, easily avoidable, and does comparable burst damage to Crescent Sweep, but without the DoT component while costing the same.
2) Stamblades have great burst, but terrible survivability. This is due to not having additional healing received or major mending. Nerfing their strength without improving their weakness is crippling to their class. Now ZOS could balance the nerf by providing the class with major mending, but then that will just make them less unique. Stamplars have major mending, and a class purge; which gives them great survivability, but now we're making their spammable undodgeable, we're giving them incredible burst with CS, and the change with Backlash. Where's the drawback?
Saying that things need to change because enough people have issues with something is an advocate for "easy mode", and will deteriorate this game into a talentless product.
If people want a game with a low skill cap, then play Skylanders. Although, if ZOS keeps up with this trend you may not have to.
Stamplars are in the worst spot in the game right now. You cannot even compare Stamplars to Stamblade. If you're losing to Stamplars it becomes a L2P issue.
Incap and Strife nerf is balance. You can't keep taking away from other classes every update and leave one alone. Incap NEEDED to be addressed if they wanted to leave Soul Harvest alone that would be fine. But insta win Incap needed a well deserved nerf.
Stamplars aren't great in PvE but they are pretty good in PvP. I don't see any reason a stamplar would struggle to kill a stamblade. I actually think stamplar is a better class for duels than stamblade is because major mending is just that strong. The cost of incap wasn't a problem it was the amount of damage it was capable of, and even then it was only a insta win if you were a bad player. I do agree it needed a nerf but I think switching it to magic damage would have been a better nerf. Strife was completely balanced because it is literally the weakest damage spammable in the game. It was only used for the heal if it didn't heal I would never use this ability over force shock. People are complaining about the strife nerf because it was no reason to nerf it it was completely balanced. Around 1000 magicka for weak DPS, but a decent hot. If the damage was higher I would agree with the nerf but the damage is just too low to justify it2 -
mr_wazzabi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert
What we need is:
1. the cancellation of the strife nerf.
2. A cost reduction of concealed weapon along with a slight damage increase so dps is higher than force pulse. Melee skills should always hit harder than ranged. There should be no arguement to that.Bosmer Stamina NB
Altmer Magicka TEMP
Dunmer DK both stam/mag (depends what I feel like)
Altmer Magicka NB
Breton Magicka Sorc
Redguard Stam Sorc
Max CP5 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!
Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker
Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!
Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?
Also if anything we are more encouraged to be Destro/Destro (Fire/Lightning) rather than Destro/Restro and Dual Wield still has more spell damage than staves + the increase damage passive for swords. As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces.
No. Dual wield is not stronger or same as destro. Please don't spread misinformation. 1. Your not factoring in weaving and animation canceling light attacks. With a fire staff you can hit like a truck weaving fire staff la from range. 2. Force pulse hits harder than strife. 3. in the pts they changed it so that if you wield a fire staff you gain an 8% increase to all single target direct damage skills. 8% > 5% and between weaving la and force pulse that > than extra spell damage obtained from second equipped weapon. 4. Duel wielders aren't procing assassins will like a destro wielder.
Now I'll give you that you can wear 2 set bonus but from a damage perspective there is no extra set bonus that comes close to Compensating the fact you lose the ability to weave la, cast eots, and proc assassins will from range.
Forum warriors have already done the math. Fire staff > output than dual wield by a long shot.
And now with the cost nerf to strife there is absolutely no reason to play a duel wield mageblade. No. The meta will be fire staff/force pulse/eots/light attacks/assassins will. They have successfully killed duel wielders because concealed weapon hits like s noodle, lose la, lose eots, buff to fire staff, and cost increase to strife and soul harvest. Also a duel wielder is not likely to be procing assassins will like a staff user.
So why would anyone go magicka melee nb? Damage is extremely subpar.
I wasn't intending to say that Dual Wield did more DPS than staves, only that the damage values will still be more than staves after the patch. If you are running dual swords on your magicka Nightblade now for "reasons" then it will not be particularly nerfed on the next patch.
Everything else you said about light and heavy attack weaving is true on live now (minus the part about the 8% damage increase that we are getting on staves in the next update).
There is no reason to run a dual wield magicka Nightblade on live now IMO, but if you are for some reason then it won't be less viable.
I am already running Fire/Lightning in live and I will continue to run it after the patch.Edited by kojou on January 27, 2017 9:41PMPlaying since beta...0 -
kaithuzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!
Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker
Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!
Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?
Also if anything we are more encouraged to be Destro/Destro (Fire/Lightning) rather than Destro/Restro and Dual Wield still has more spell damage than staves + the increase damage passive for swords. As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces.
No. Dual wield is not stronger or same as destro. Please don't spread misinformation. 1. Your not factoring in weaving and animation canceling light attacks. With a fire staff you can hit like a truck weaving fire staff la from range. 2. Force pulse hits harder than strife. 3. in the pts they changed it so that if you wield a fire staff you gain an 8% increase to all single target direct damage skills. 8% > 5% and between weaving la and force pulse that > than extra spell damage obtained from second equipped weapon. 4. Duel wielders aren't procing assassins will like a destro wielder.
Now I'll give you that you can wear 2 set bonus but from a damage perspective there is no extra set bonus that comes close to Compensating the fact you lose the ability to weave la, cast eots, and proc assassins will from range.
Forum warriors have already done the math. Fire staff > output than dual wield by a long shot.
And now with the cost nerf to strife there is absolutely no reason to play a duel wield mageblade. No. The meta will be fire staff/force pulse/eots/light attacks/assassins will. They have successfully killed duel wielders because concealed weapon hits like s noodle, lose la, lose eots, buff to fire staff, and cost increase to strife and soul harvest. Also a duel wielder is not likely to be procing assassins will like a staff user.
So why would anyone go magicka melee nb? Damage is extremely subpar.
I wasn't intending to say that Dual Wield did more DPS than staves, only that the damage values will still be more than staves after the patch. If you are running dual swords on your magicka Nightblade now for "reasons" then it will not be particularly nerfed on the next patch.
Everything else you said about light and heavy attack weaving is true on live now (minus the part about the 8% damage increase that we are getting on staves in the next update).
There is no reason to run a dual wield magicka Nightblade on live now IMO, but if you are for some reason then it won't be less viable.
I am already running Fire/Lightning in live and I will continue to run it after the patch.
I think those of us who have still been running dw are just sick & tired of being subpar in comparison to the previous/original elder staves online build of using destro
I thought that currently on live destro was still better due to the ability to weave efficiently & proc assassin's will, but you're telling me destro staff gets an extra 8% buff next patch & " oh there's no difference..."
Why would you exclude the 8%???? That's HUGE!
(i don't even have to mention the inclusion of what has been called a menial 3% dmg reduction on the sp dmg dw passive)
The gap between dw & destro staff has widened even greater & this makes me sad.Edited by kaithuzar on January 28, 2017 2:00AMMember of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house
Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg0 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭I for one don't mind the strife nerf too much.
My problem with strife is the animation. When you light attack and use strife really fast, sometimes your character get stuck in the animation. Because of that you end up not doing LA's until you stop attacking, which is a dps loss for no reason. I would gladly take the nerf if it meant that this bug was gone. NB's don't need a strong spamable skill for pure dps in trials or whatever, we have force pulse for that and that's ok. But for solo content Strife should be the go to for us, since the ability clearly favours either small group play with Funnel Health or solo play with Swallow Soul. But, if you really wanted to change strife, maybe working with the morphs is a good approach: making FH heal for more while SS deal more damage and heals less, similar to choosing twisting path vs refreshing path.
I think it's okay to magNB to not be the top ranged dps, imo they should not do the same damage as sorc because they offer utility to the group with off heal skills like Sap Essence. And maybe that should be something you guys could focus on: Making magNB offer more utility to the group instead of damage. You could make Hemorrhage give something else besides minor savagery... I would pretty much remove the savagery and add something completely different. Giving a minor buff to you group is a good idea, but sadly savagery is not that usefull unless there is stamboys in your group, which most of the times is not the case, but even then, not a good reason to have a magNB. I would suggest Minor Vitality but it would make more sense if it was in the siphoning tree instead soo... I am not sure, but it should be something unique to nightblades. Another options is to go for a damage approach, similar to Templars Aedric Spear passive that, makes your skills proc damage. Because of the name, Hemorrhage, a dot that would make more sense. Maybe the damage type would be either bleed or magic damage depending on the source too..
I like the idea behind grim focus, because it is difficult to maintain it 100% because you can't miss a light attack in your rotation, makes it really rewarding when you get it right. But... perhaps not that rewarding? Maybe adding more damage to the skill or something more to it? Maybe making your light/medium/heavy attacks do more damage, similar to bound armor? There's tons of stuff this skill could offer.Edited by Nevasca on January 28, 2017 2:42AM0 -
Witar✭✭✭✭✭Every mag class got buffed (even overperforming sorcs that have been #1 mag class for ages) exept magblades which got nerfed. Seriuosly Zos what is wrong with you? Revert strife nerf.
It cannot be seen, cannot be felt,
Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt,
It lies behind stars and under hills,
And empty holes it fills,
It comes first and follows after,
Ends life, kills laughter.4 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »The NB nerfs are great
Everyone might as well ignore this guy. He obviously cares nothing about balance, and is clearly butt hurt about Nightblades. Also he hasn't provided zero evidence that he has even played on the PTS; therefore he is the most toxic type of forum poster. One that hops in PTS forums spewing nonsense he knows nothing about.
Obviously there were issues with strife and incap. Enough people had issues with it enough testers found they were Overperforming. ZoS wouldn't have nerfed for no reason.
You're one of those people who want EVERY class except yours to be nerfed to the ground so the game can be played on easy mode. I got news for you, the nerfs are going to stick so get used to it bud.
Lol why would I want every class nerfed to the ground? No, I simply just want balance. Also I've never been an advocate of "easy" content, and that goes for PvP as well. Which is why I typically play in Azura's star. The Strife nerf is justifiable IMO due to the difference in power/cost when compared to concealed weapon. However, the healing element of it needs to be buffed in order to make it worth slotting over force pulse
The change to death stroke is not balanced for multiple reasons:
1) It's single target, easily avoidable, and does comparable burst damage to Crescent Sweep, but without the DoT component while costing the same.
2) Stamblades have great burst, but terrible survivability. This is due to not having additional healing received or major mending. Nerfing their strength without improving their weakness is crippling to their class. Now ZOS could balance the nerf by providing the class with major mending, but then that will just make them less unique. Stamplars have major mending, and a class purge; which gives them great survivability, but now we're making their spammable undodgeable, we're giving them incredible burst with CS, and the change with Backlash. Where's the drawback?
Saying that things need to change because enough people have issues with something is an advocate for "easy mode", and will deteriorate this game into a talentless product.
If people want a game with a low skill cap, then play Skylanders. Although, if ZOS keeps up with this trend you may not have to.
Stamplars are in the worst spot in the game right now. You cannot even compare Stamplars to Stamblade. If you're losing to Stamplars it becomes a L2P issue.
Incap and Strife nerf is balance. You can't keep taking away from other classes every update and leave one alone. Incap NEEDED to be addressed if they wanted to leave Soul Harvest alone that would be fine. But insta win Incap needed a well deserved nerf.
how the *** is the strife nerf "balance" when magblades are at the bottom?.Invictus3 -
LegacyDM✭✭✭✭✭
✭ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »the_man_of_steal wrote: »I can no longer stay silent on the horrific changes and nerfs magicka builds have gotten in the past few patches. Our mag costs was doubled across the board without telling us, light attack weaving is horrible due to us not being able to spec into weapon damage, and now it seems dual wield is also being nerfed!?! This is RIDICULOUS. Why are you forcing magicka builds to be destro resto when you are encouraging tanks to go ice staff!?!! These have been completely inconstant changes and they are nonsensical to add insult to injury!
Stam classes are all the same... rally, shuffle, vigor, dawnbreaker
Mag classes have less DPS, poor regen, and we are squishy AF but at least we WERE diverse!
Why are you @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert making magicka less diverse and lowering our DPS while simultaneously keeping stam less diverse and increasing their dps while keeping their survivability up!?
Also if anything we are more encouraged to be Destro/Destro (Fire/Lightning) rather than Destro/Restro and Dual Wield still has more spell damage than staves + the increase damage passive for swords. As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces.
No. Dual wield is not stronger or same as destro. Please don't spread misinformation. 1. Your not factoring in weaving and animation canceling light attacks. With a fire staff you can hit like a truck weaving fire staff la from range. 2. Force pulse hits harder than strife. 3. in the pts they changed it so that if you wield a fire staff you gain an 8% increase to all single target direct damage skills. 8% > 5% and between weaving la and force pulse that > than extra spell damage obtained from second equipped weapon. 4. Duel wielders aren't procing assassins will like a destro wielder.
Now I'll give you that you can wear 2 set bonus but from a damage perspective there is no extra set bonus that comes close to Compensating the fact you lose the ability to weave la, cast eots, and proc assassins will from range.
Forum warriors have already done the math. Fire staff > output than dual wield by a long shot.
And now with the cost nerf to strife there is absolutely no reason to play a duel wield mageblade. No. The meta will be fire staff/force pulse/eots/light attacks/assassins will. They have successfully killed duel wielders because concealed weapon hits like s noodle, lose la, lose eots, buff to fire staff, and cost increase to strife and soul harvest. Also a duel wielder is not likely to be procing assassins will like a staff user.
So why would anyone go magicka melee nb? Damage is extremely subpar.
I wasn't intending to say that Dual Wield did more DPS than staves, only that the damage values will still be more than staves after the patch. If you are running dual swords on your magicka Nightblade now for "reasons" then it will not be particularly nerfed on the next patch.
Everything else you said about light and heavy attack weaving is true on live now (minus the part about the 8% damage increase that we are getting on staves in the next update).
There is no reason to run a dual wield magicka Nightblade on live now IMO, but if you are for some reason then it won't be less viable.
I am already running Fire/Lightning in live and I will continue to run it after the patch.
"As far as I know damage-wise it is about the same or stronger than a Destro and has the added bonus of 2 set pieces."
Im sorry how should I interpret this statement? That dual wield doesn't do more or the same dps as a stave? Huh?
"Everything else you said about light and heavy attack weaving is true on live now (minus the part about the 8% damage increase that we are getting on staves in the next update)."
Unless they changed it. Last time I checked pts, fire staff passive stated that damage is increased by 8% for all single target direct damage spells. I even tested it myself. Equipped a fire staff and my strife was hitting for 8% more. Sooooo, absolutely fire staff is far superior dps wise to dual wielding. Why should anyone go dual wield?Edited by LegacyDM on January 28, 2017 8:21AMLegacy of Kain
Vicious Carnage
¥ampire Lord of the South0 -
VanHalen✭✭✭✭Guys, just go to your sorcs, dks, templars, stamblades. Our cry will not change anything.YouTube channel
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stamblades don't need major mending or anything else. They just need incap nerf to be reverted (since its dodgeable and is single target) and as others have said for stealth damage to be removed. I never have had an issue against incap when I am fighting nightblades but when I get ganked by one my HP is reduced to like 20% or even 1 shot.
Incap nerf is good for overall balance. Revert RD damage then you can revert incap ult cost. It's not like you're losing any damage, any stun, or reduced to healing.
Losing DPS in PvE in the execute phase.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭In the regard of dw vs staves, if you have 2 Moondancer Swords I believe it is still worth using dual wield because the 5 pc is very strong. But otherwise dw is worse no matter what even in this patch.0
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Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The NB nerfs are great
Please, stop trolling, you barely know the class, yet you suggest any stamblade to use syphon skills.
Strife? lol... even degeneration does moar dmg and heal than strife.
Agony?lol... having a guaranteed stun in SA from stealh makes it useless
cripple? useful only on the run.
syphoning? You must use it each 15 secs
and the only skill available, which is power extraction... the worst AoE in this game (expensive and low dmg)
Please, go spam punct strikes, somewhere elseEdited by Xvorg on January 28, 2017 7:19PMSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique5 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/175 -
H4RDFOX✭✭✭A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.Edited by H4RDFOX on January 29, 2017 5:16PM#NoEasyProps4 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.5 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.4 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
DPS =/= Burst.
When you burst from stealth, you aren't DPSing, you're bursting. Both things involve dealing damage.
A good exemple is vMA dual wield weapons. The burst is low, but the damage over a period of time is insanely high. Two-hander is the opposite, high burst, low sustained pressure.
DPS means damage per second. If you do a spike of say 130k (wrecking blow from stealth on a beatle along with 3 proc sets for example) in one second, your DPS =/= 130k. A fight has do be reasonably long with little to no interruptions in damage dealing.
So basically, don't use the word DPS in PvP because there are plenty of other actions involved aside of just dealing damage.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.
Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique1 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭thankyourat wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »A constructive response from ZoS on the matter is very much needed right now, community engagement right? Otherwise the forums are falling on blind eyes. This will continue, causing further discontentment of nightblade "balance" management.
If my Nightblade isn't doing much damage to a HA (fill in the blank for class), plus some of these nerfs like strife cost inc, or less of a rotation on one of my melee ulti (incap, which is dodgeable, and misses), then how is that balance? The only counter I see is "pick your targets carefully." What other class is forced to pick their targets carefully? The DPS class isn't so much DPS unless its attacking from stealth, so quit the BS on nerfing stealth, the only two races that benefit from it is Khajit, and bosmer, plus master assassin passive. You want to nerf my stealth damage, that's further nerfing of the class while others gets buff, thats illogical of the term balancing. That is destroying an assassin class, which is what it is designed to do, D-P-S. A DK can freaking tank, and deal damage, A templar can tank heal and do damage, a sorc can tank and deal damage, I don't see nightblades fulfilling these roles.
Quit pitchforking my nightblade for nerfs.
Honestly, I wouldn't expect anything. I think ZOS has made it quite obvious that they hate Nightblades; Stamblades in particular.
I don't think it's ZoS that hates nightblades (stamblades mostly) I think it's the community. Any nightblade buffs will not be taken well by the community, so ZoS is probably very hesitant to actually. The ability to stealth is also very strong but very situational. If you buff nightblades to the level of tankiness and sustain as a dk it would be to op because of the ability to open up from stealth. I wouldn't have mind to see incap switch to magic damage but switch deliberate to physical damage or maybe even buff power extraction so stamblades can actually use the good passives in the siphoning tree.Strider_Roshin wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »If Strife's low cost was causing the skill to overperform (it wasn't, but let's pretend that it was), then ZOS needs to look at other low cost skills and nerf accordingly. On mag DK my Burning Embers cost only 797 magicka and can heal me for 20k+ when I let it go for it's full duration, if Strife needed a nerf then surely this ability does as well.
Embers is stupid OP. Now that they have a class BoL, I think they can reduce that ability's heal down to 25% from 75%. I agree though, Strife needs a healing buff in order to remain relevant.
Embers is so op, magdk is op in general even more now. Magdk never really needed big buffs it was a great class. too many mag dks were trying to play like stam sorcs so they thought it was weak.
Mag DK is far from being a strong class. You build your toon to turtle and try to last more than 10 secs before running out of res.
I hear that so much but people over exaggerate mag dk struggles just like magblade. Mag dk is like the best class in the game for 1v1 and great in group play. If I was running a raid I would rather have a mag dk than a stamblade. People think mag dk is bad because they think all classes should be hit in run high burst stam sorcs. Just because a class struggles to 1vX well doesn't mean there is something wrong with the class. Mag dk is definitely a strong class.5 -
Flameheart✭✭✭✭✭Guys, just go to your sorcs, dks, templars, stamblades. Our cry will not change anything.
I will just do that. I need to raid vMoL with my DK anyways, because you need at least 2 DKs there and with the changes to Major Force and Minor Force and some other changes, the nerfes will outscore the few buffs by far concerning raid dps. So class representation in raids will most likely change anyways. A player in a progress guild already mentioned to one of our guild members: "Why play your Magblade when you have already a Sorc ?"Henryc1t807 wrote: »So I've been speaking with Jeckll, who is pretty much the exemplary nightblade and knows a lot about this sort of thing. I asked him how Zos could balance night blades and change them so that there is a balance between magicka and stamina.
First of all, incap strike. Get rod of the stun, reduce the damage but increase the duration of the damage increase to 8s.
Grim focus. It should be able to procc Assassins scourge multiple times or proccing the bow should reset the duration. Initial damage should be reduced but a 4s DoTshould be added to increase dps without burst, DoT should also scale with thurmatuge.
Master assassin passive. Should increase weapon and spell damage as long as you stand behind the target.
Executioner passive. Should also restore stamina if target is finished with a stam skill.
Veil of blades. Remove damage reduction and snare. Make the circle mobile. Increase dps. Redo the synergy, aoe the DoT and minor mangle.
Bolstering Darkness. Circle still immoble, 30% damage reduction. As soon as ranged attacks are cast on target in the circle, the ranged add is pulled in the circle and gets snared.
Dark cloak. Add the purge again.
Shadowy disguise. Get rid of the 100% crit. Add 5s major evasion and major expedition after the ability fades.
Concealed weapon. Reduce cost, increase damage. Has to deal more damage than force pulse.
Refreshing path. This should deal the same damage twisted does plus healing or movement speed. Synergy, restores 15% of your highest resource.
Twisted path. Rework it to path of thorns. Stam morph, disease damage and snare. Synergy, disease AoE damage.
Manifestation of Terror. 1 trap, unlimited targets, 4s snare after fear.
Dark shades. Stamina morph, deals physical damage.
Shadow image. Should be a caster, not archer.
Soul siphon. Places a siphon. Everyone in range gets healed and get more healing for 10s. Synergy, siphon explodes and deals magic damage equal to the healing siphon did until the explosion.
Funnel health. Old costs, reduce damage by 10%, heals 2 nearby targets for 40% kf the damage done.
Swallow soul. Old cost, damage on lar with force pulse + self heal + 8% more healing.
Prolonged suffering. Possibilty to cast on multiple targets. 16s DoT, damage increase as time goes by. Last tick does a dps bonus.
Malefic wreath. Castable on 1 target. 8s DoT. Target doesn't get hurt, pulses every sec with increasing AoE damage to nearby mobs. Last tick does a dps bonus.
Debilitate. Skills cast on the target afflicted by debilitate cost 8% less and deal 2% more damage for 8s.
Leeching Strikes. Rename to leeching defence. Toggle, all attacks on the player steals x magicka, stamina and hp from the target, 1s cool down.
Power extraction. Afflicted targets recoeve 7% disease damage.
Hope people see this
There is some really good and logical stuff here.
I wholeheartely agree especially to the point made for Concealed Weapon. A melee spam skill that does less dps as Force Pulse ? This is only balanced in ZOS' pink pony world, where a Magblade should be a ranged DD class. The current change to our Impale (28m range) just emphasizes that.
Edited by Flameheart on January 30, 2017 12:05PMSometimes the prey turns and nips us... it's a small thing.
So let the snow flakes and unicorns dance alone until they melt or vanish from existence, we will finish up with those smart enough to stay in the glowing circle of love.
Selissi - CP 1k+ Redguard Stamina Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Silmerel - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Templar (Ebonheart Pact)
Sunja - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Nightblade (Ebonheart Pact)
Suldreni - CP 1k+ Dunmer Magicka Dragonknight (Ebonheart Pact)
Sulhelka - CP 1k+ Altmer Magicka Sorcerer (Ebonheart Pact)
Sylundine - CP 1k+ Breton Magicka Warden (Ebonheart Pact)2
