Joy_Division wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

[*] There will still be people dying to one shots in PvP even if they don't crit because crit isn't an issue in PvP if you L2Impen.

Can we please stop this misinformation?

Crit is one of the best stats in pvp. Impen helps but even when you´re full decked out 3000+ impen someone built for critdmg will still hit you significantly harder with a crit compared to a noncrit.

So they hit you for 1k damage more. That 1k isn't what kills you. Its the fact that they can get 5 4k attacks off at nearly the same time before you can react. Nerfing crit on proc sets won't stop people crying about viper/velidreth/widowmaker and you know it.

Please do not post made up numbers. Post actual results of a build setup for critdmg hitting someone with high impen - and then proceed to evaluate how much dmg increase they got from critting.

Again you´re spreading misinformation by posting made up random numbers without a baseline to compare them to. 1k increase on a 2k basedmg ability? That´s still a 50% increase. Preddy damn good (yes i do follow the same route here - as it proves the point i´m making).

Edit: I will later post a screenshot.

Heavy armor. A real set with Impen. Not Trainee trash.



2511+5110+10066+1078+4802+8645+2719+1886+6729+5802=48270 damage. With 50% Battle Spirit.

I got killed in 2 seconds. Got stunned. CC broke. Died before I could get a skill off. Yes, there are a lot of damage inputs there; still did nothing that "fight" except CC break. ZoS's fix is a joke. They either have no clue what's going on in PvP or do not care. I can't tell which it is. How the heck is anyone expected to run around in Light Armor with 25K health "normal" builds?

NBs wonder why their trial DPS sucks and why Zenimax doesn't boost their skills, it is because of abusive crap like that. In what universe is it even compelling gameplay that a very high health build in heavy armor gets insta-killed?. This isn't Call of Duty. It's a joke.

Not saying that this isn't completely ridiculous, but technically it took him 7-10 seconds to kill you and you had 3-4 seconds to react (depending on lag. He buffed up in stealth, prepared a heavy, gap closed, casted ult, then casted his execute twice. Your time to react started at his gap close.

This next bit isn't really for you, but more for the people that don't like the crit nerf on procs.

How much impen do you have? If you have 2k impen (about 30% reduced crit damage) and assuming he is running a 1.72 crit modifier(shadow mundus), his crits still hit you for 40% more damage. That means that his Veli proc would do 6175 damage (if my understanding that crit resist reduction in damage isn't multiplicative but additive) instead of 8645 damage. That's 2500 less damage.

All of this still doesn't really excuse that a 45k health character died that fast. Just goes to show the damage potential in this game. Its unhealthy.

I get it you're trying to make this sound reasonable, but just stop. No he technically didn't take 10 seconds to kill me. If you think my time to react started when he started he gap close, you don't know how NBs gank. Google animation cancelling and then watch any Sribes video. Extended ritual procs every 2 seconds ... it didn't proc again before I died. I got stunned. I cc broke. I died before heal went off. If this didn't happen, I wouldn't lie about it. Some executes in this game are "instant," in that if the skill will kill you, you die before the animations play out. Everyone thinks this is just an RD issue but ask any sorc who use Mage's Wrath. Targets explode before I'm even done pressing the button.

Yes I had >2K Crit resistance and yes damage is out of control. Heavy armor is also out of control. In ZoS's weird way this is somehow "balanced" because offense and defense are both strong, but it's just a stupid arms race of who can abuse what mechanic the most. It's dumb. I am very disappointed ZoS did nothing about this and I wish people would stop apologizing over these abusive mechanics or ZoS's inaction.

Just pointing out that last time i checked, all activations in ESO are on key-release not key-press, so technically your statement i bolded is factually impossible.

Betheny wrote: »

It's actually quite offensive come to think of it that @ZOS_RichLambert seems to think "older gamers" need things simplified...maybe their fingers don't mash buttons *quite* as fast, but their minds definitely can work out a build and rotation to play with just the same.

Simplifying things simply removes choice and build diversity.

And it's also offensive that you think an older gamer with slower reflexes and reaction time should be locked out of some content and build options (monster sets in vet content) because they cant be competitive.

I see alot more "older" gamers in ESO than l33ts.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

[*] There will still be people dying to one shots in PvP even if they don't crit because crit isn't an issue in PvP if you L2Impen.

Can we please stop this misinformation?

Crit is one of the best stats in pvp. Impen helps but even when you´re full decked out 3000+ impen someone built for critdmg will still hit you significantly harder with a crit compared to a noncrit.

So they hit you for 1k damage more. That 1k isn't what kills you. Its the fact that they can get 5 4k attacks off at nearly the same time before you can react. Nerfing crit on proc sets won't stop people crying about viper/velidreth/widowmaker and you know it.

Please do not post made up numbers. Post actual results of a build setup for critdmg hitting someone with high impen - and then proceed to evaluate how much dmg increase they got from critting.

Again you´re spreading misinformation by posting made up random numbers without a baseline to compare them to. 1k increase on a 2k basedmg ability? That´s still a 50% increase. Preddy damn good (yes i do follow the same route here - as it proves the point i´m making).

Edit: I will later post a screenshot.

Heavy armor. A real set with Impen. Not Trainee trash.



2511+5110+10066+1078+4802+8645+2719+1886+6729+5802=48270 damage. With 50% Battle Spirit.

I got killed in 2 seconds. Got stunned. CC broke. Died before I could get a skill off. Yes, there are a lot of damage inputs there; still did nothing that "fight" except CC break. ZoS's fix is a joke. They either have no clue what's going on in PvP or do not care. I can't tell which it is. How the heck is anyone expected to run around in Light Armor with 25K health "normal" builds?

NBs wonder why their trial DPS sucks and why Zenimax doesn't boost their skills, it is because of abusive crap like that. In what universe is it even compelling gameplay that a very high health build in heavy armor gets insta-killed?. This isn't Call of Duty. It's a joke.

Not saying that this isn't completely ridiculous, but technically it took him 7-10 seconds to kill you and you had 3-4 seconds to react (depending on lag. He buffed up in stealth, prepared a heavy, gap closed, casted ult, then casted his execute twice. Your time to react started at his gap close.

This next bit isn't really for you, but more for the people that don't like the crit nerf on procs.

How much impen do you have? If you have 2k impen (about 30% reduced crit damage) and assuming he is running a 1.72 crit modifier(shadow mundus), his crits still hit you for 40% more damage. That means that his Veli proc would do 6175 damage (if my understanding that crit resist reduction in damage isn't multiplicative but additive) instead of 8645 damage. That's 2500 less damage.

All of this still doesn't really excuse that a 45k health character died that fast. Just goes to show the damage potential in this game. Its unhealthy.

I get it you're trying to make this sound reasonable, but just stop. No he technically didn't take 10 seconds to kill me. If you think my time to react started when he started he gap close, you don't know how NBs gank. Google animation cancelling and then watch any Sribes video. Extended ritual procs every 2 seconds ... it didn't proc again before I died. I got stunned. I cc broke. I died before heal went off. If this didn't happen, I wouldn't lie about it. Some executes in this game are "instant," in that if the skill will kill you, you die before the animations play out. Everyone thinks this is just an RD issue but ask any sorc who use Mage's Wrath. Targets explode before I'm even done pressing the button.

Yes I had >2K Crit resistance and yes damage is out of control. Heavy armor is also out of control. In ZoS's weird way this is somehow "balanced" because offense and defense are both strong, but it's just a stupid arms race of who can abuse what mechanic the most. It's dumb. I am very disappointed ZoS did nothing about this and I wish people would stop apologizing over these abusive mechanics or ZoS's inaction.

Just pointing out that last time i checked, all activations in ESO are on key-release not key-press, so technically your statement i bolded is factually impossible.

If ZOS nerfs anything this patch, I hope they nerf people's ability to pettifog and make zero value-added "technical" observations that ignore the inherent fluidity and obvious hyperbole existent in the way normal people speak.

We all know what @Joy_Division meant. He was saying that Mages Fury is very strong and near instantaneous. Your technical breakdown of the way he phrased that observation adds a sum total of NOTHING to the conversation and just derails it.

The purpose of communication is to convey meaning, not to be "technically correct." Use context clues or ask a friend to interpret if you aren't culturally socialized enough to understand the real meaning behind the words.

My guess however, is that you do actually understand and you just like to argue for the sheer sake of arguing. However, you are simply being petty and contrary and not really responsive to the argument presented.

The evidence presented was that the way game mechanics and ganking works, the Time to Kill is still really low, and certain executes add to that. There are helpful and value-added ways to counter that argument but you need to present your own evidence if you wish to try. If you know of a way to survive a gank build like that without radiant magelight, defensive rune or a clairvoyant add-on, please enlighten us.

It's apparent to most of us that play day to day in cyrodiil that the proc set crit nerf will do nothing to change the FPS style low time to kill that is making this game feel more like counterstrike than an Elder Scolls Game.

For the record my comment was strictly about the comment that was made and was about the mechanics and function of the game as regards to the post.

I did not choose to say anything about Joy_Division the player or poster.

i also did not try and portray that comment on one sentence, even specifically highlighted that it was one sentence, to in any way undermine the whole point or overall conclusion that was being presented.

The road you chose however, was a different one... "you are simply being petty " is about me not the game or the conclusions.

i suppose for me if ZOS were to decide to nerf any "posting" it would be ones that choose to go after the person and not the point. too bad they dont have forum rules that make that distinction clear.

As for the non-personal attack, non-hope for censoring parts of your post...

IMO hyperbole and misstatement dont help a sound argument. they distract from it. if your point is sound why interject known obvious inaccuracies?

For PVP with lag the possibility that a player gets hit with multiple effects seemingly "all at once" from their perspective (divorced from the time difference it took to launch them) is certainly an issue. its been an issue since release - gank threads have come and gone and come again over and over.

hyperbole and deliberate inaccuracies aren't needed or helpful to establish that point or discuss the possible solutions.

IMO YMMV but hey, everybody chooses their own roads.

EDIT TO ADD
BTW in the past i have even suggested a very simple and direct solution - no hyperbole needed, no massive tweaks need etc... to deal with the "combats too short" or as you call it "the FPS style low time to kill" problem. its really quite simple a fix really - for the first A-B second of any PVP combat the maximum damage ou can take from all sources combined is half your health."

that way no combat in any situation can end faster than A seconds which means no more sudden death no play" scenarios. IMo make A-B a slightly random range so the end of the "safety net" isn't precisely timable.

But that doesn't seem to get as much purchase cuz it seems like some "really quick kills" are considered good ones while other "really quick kills" are considered bad ones and so this ongoing dance-off of rules tweaks will never end.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

Gamers who need things "simplified" shouldn't be playing games!

So because i'm an older gamer and slower... I shouldn't be playing games? That's a pretty narrow view don't you think?

Go ahead and keep playing but don't optimize the game based on your own needs. You might have slowed down but at 43 I can still quick twitch pretty well thank you and don't need the game "simplified". How the heck does removing the stun from Blazing Spear simply anything for an older gamer anyway?

Simplification isn't for you. It's helping the power creep and rampant complication of rotation for -everyone-. He's not monopolizing the game for older gamers or himself.

People will take any excuse to keep from admitting what they want is to be better than other people.

The only way this will reduce power creep is by causing all the players to quit.

If you want to do top dps, then you will need to use a complex rotation. You will need to track your buffs, dots, and resources; all of which adds complication... There is no way to simplify it without it making combat boring.

For more experienced players, these changes are not only an insult but a sign of a declining product. Should we go back to the combat style of the 80's where most of my generation learned combat from turn based rpgs and you only needed a 2 button controller. Do we need to revert combat back to just 4 choices: Attack, Item, Spell and Flee?
Now dont get me wrong, i loved dragon warrior back on the nes, but in 2017 i want more then an 'attack' command with limited spell options like 'hurt' and 'hurtmore'...

Oh and as some people didnt quite put the pieces together the same way, the reason for the age comments is because:

1. Rich posted that one of the reasons for the widespread of nerfs and changes was to 'simplify' the game
2. a player responded that if 'people need this simplified, then they shouldnt play'. This response had zero indications of age in any way.
3. Rich replied to that with the comment that that he as an 'older gamer' should be able to enjoy the game.
   
   The reason this is the implication is based on the words and inference of the conversation topics. If you say you're doing something for 'reason' and then when that 'reason' is attacked, you use your 'demographic' as a justification, you are directly linking your 'demographic' as the cause of 'reason'.

This is a very clean and clear example of how they as the company staff are more concerned with their after hours enjoyment then the product. It is a conflict of interest at best.

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Update 13 has been out on the PTS for almost a week now and there’s been a lot of good feedback and questions posted with regards to the balance changes. I wanted to take a few moments to briefly discuss the overall direction for these changes so you can hopefully start to see why these changes are occurring.

For Update 13, our overall goal was to lessen the gap between the top and bottom. (in terms of overall damage output, coordinated vs. uncoordinated, small and large scale PVE & PVP) This doesn’t mean all classes are perfectly equal in all ways or that we want to remove skill from the game. We want to establish a solid baseline so that we can better tune and tweak balance. For this update we attacked this problem from multiple angles by doing the following:

1. Lowering the ceiling on the top damage
2. Raising the floor on the bottom damage
3. Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels

Some of you will probably ask how the above goals translate into the changes we made. Here are some notes on a couple of the more hotly debated ones so you can see how they fit into the bigger picture:

• Proc Sets – This change falls directly into the “lower the ceiling” category for both PVP and PVE. We wanted to reduce the overall burst potential without dramatically lowering sustain. There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.
• Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)
• Radiant Destruction – This one is definitely in the “lower the ceiling” category. It was strong in both PVE and PVP and needed adjustment.
• Haunting Curse – This one falls into the “simplify” category. The goal was to free up globals for more abilities to be cast with this change. (i.e. – every 10.5 seconds you get to use 3 more abilities) @Alpheu5 has a pretty great image that illustrates this change in this thread.

I didn't touch on every change or class, but I hope that sheds some light into how and why we've made some of the changes we've made. We have a lot more balance changes planned, but due to how our build cycle works, most of them won't make the next PTS build - they should hopefully make PTS3 though.

It should also be noted that what is on PTS now is our first pass at these changes. We’re evaluating all of them and will make adjustments based on both feedback and data collected, so please continue to test them on PTS and give feedback.

-rich

Explain why Destro Ult got a 3% damage buff with Lightning Staff?

AOE damage is reduced while hitting multiple targets,

No, the latter two stages of the AoE cap are being raised by 25%. Stacked with the changes to Arcane Knowledge, an inferno staff or lighting staff will give an 8% damage buff to destruction staff abilities. 8% (Arcane Knowledge) - 5% (DestroUlt Damage Nerf) = 3% flat damage buff overall, and coupled with the AoE cap raises the DestroUlt will be even more effective at what it has been doing in Cyrodiil.

The Destro Ult needs to be not just "blockable" or even interruptible, but terminable the same way the Bow Ult and its morph Toxic Barrage are terminable. If I'm channeling Toxic Barrage and I'm feared, stunned, snared, immobilized, knocked back, disoriented, or bashed, then my ultimate ends and the cost spent is wasted. That's a big part of why it's justified to have Toxic Barrage crit for over 100k (along with being single target, individual hits can be dodged, line-of-sight required, etc.). If we just made the Destro Ult a terminable channeled ability like Toxic Barrage, I would be fine leaving the damage alone.

Edit: Spelling and punctuation.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

[*] There will still be people dying to one shots in PvP even if they don't crit because crit isn't an issue in PvP if you L2Impen.

Can we please stop this misinformation?

Crit is one of the best stats in pvp. Impen helps but even when you´re full decked out 3000+ impen someone built for critdmg will still hit you significantly harder with a crit compared to a noncrit.

So they hit you for 1k damage more. That 1k isn't what kills you. Its the fact that they can get 5 4k attacks off at nearly the same time before you can react. Nerfing crit on proc sets won't stop people crying about viper/velidreth/widowmaker and you know it.

Please do not post made up numbers. Post actual results of a build setup for critdmg hitting someone with high impen - and then proceed to evaluate how much dmg increase they got from critting.

Again you´re spreading misinformation by posting made up random numbers without a baseline to compare them to. 1k increase on a 2k basedmg ability? That´s still a 50% increase. Preddy damn good (yes i do follow the same route here - as it proves the point i´m making).

Edit: I will later post a screenshot.

Heavy armor. A real set with Impen. Not Trainee trash.



2511+5110+10066+1078+4802+8645+2719+1886+6729+5802=48270 damage. With 50% Battle Spirit.

I got killed in 2 seconds. Got stunned. CC broke. Died before I could get a skill off. Yes, there are a lot of damage inputs there; still did nothing that "fight" except CC break. ZoS's fix is a joke. They either have no clue what's going on in PvP or do not care. I can't tell which it is. How the heck is anyone expected to run around in Light Armor with 25K health "normal" builds?

NBs wonder why their trial DPS sucks and why Zenimax doesn't boost their skills, it is because of abusive crap like that. In what universe is it even compelling gameplay that a very high health build in heavy armor gets insta-killed?. This isn't Call of Duty. It's a joke.

Not saying that this isn't completely ridiculous, but technically it took him 7-10 seconds to kill you and you had 3-4 seconds to react (depending on lag. He buffed up in stealth, prepared a heavy, gap closed, casted ult, then casted his execute twice. Your time to react started at his gap close.

This next bit isn't really for you, but more for the people that don't like the crit nerf on procs.

How much impen do you have? If you have 2k impen (about 30% reduced crit damage) and assuming he is running a 1.72 crit modifier(shadow mundus), his crits still hit you for 40% more damage. That means that his Veli proc would do 6175 damage (if my understanding that crit resist reduction in damage isn't multiplicative but additive) instead of 8645 damage. That's 2500 less damage.

All of this still doesn't really excuse that a 45k health character died that fast. Just goes to show the damage potential in this game. Its unhealthy.

I get it you're trying to make this sound reasonable, but just stop. No he technically didn't take 10 seconds to kill me. If you think my time to react started when he started he gap close, you don't know how NBs gank. Google animation cancelling and then watch any Sribes video. Extended ritual procs every 2 seconds ... it didn't proc again before I died. I got stunned. I cc broke. I died before heal went off. If this didn't happen, I wouldn't lie about it. Some executes in this game are "instant," in that if the skill will kill you, you die before the animations play out. Everyone thinks this is just an RD issue but ask any sorc who use Mage's Wrath. Targets explode before I'm even done pressing the button.

Yes I had >2K Crit resistance and yes damage is out of control. Heavy armor is also out of control. In ZoS's weird way this is somehow "balanced" because offense and defense are both strong, but it's just a stupid arms race of who can abuse what mechanic the most. It's dumb. I am very disappointed ZoS did nothing about this and I wish people would stop apologizing over these abusive mechanics or ZoS's inaction.

Just pointing out that last time i checked, all activations in ESO are on key-release not key-press, so technically your statement i bolded is factually impossible.

If ZOS nerfs anything this patch, I hope they nerf people's ability to pettifog and make zero value-added "technical" observations that ignore the inherent fluidity and obvious hyperbole existent in the way normal people speak.

We all know what @Joy_Division meant. He was saying that Mages Fury is very strong and near instantaneous. Your technical breakdown of the way he phrased that observation adds a sum total of NOTHING to the conversation and just derails it.

The purpose of communication is to convey meaning, not to be "technically correct." Use context clues or ask a friend to interpret if you aren't culturally socialized enough to understand the real meaning behind the words.

My guess however, is that you do actually understand and you just like to argue for the sheer sake of arguing. However, you are simply being petty and contrary and not really responsive to the argument presented.

The evidence presented was that the way game mechanics and ganking works, the Time to Kill is still really low, and certain executes add to that. There are helpful and value-added ways to counter that argument but you need to present your own evidence if you wish to try. If you know of a way to survive a gank build like that without radiant magelight, defensive rune or a clairvoyant add-on, please enlighten us.

It's apparent to most of us that play day to day in cyrodiil that the proc set crit nerf will do nothing to change the FPS style low time to kill that is making this game feel more like counterstrike than an Elder Scolls Game.

isnt the whole point of pvp is to play counterstrike, but with swords and magic?If people want slow paced strategic competition, might i recommend a good game of chess instead?

They cannot fix the inherent issue of ganking without completely rewriting the nb class. The class is designed for one purpose: Buff>Stealth>Kill. If it is nerfed any further it would be: Buff>stealth>Annoy>respawn... NB is already the weakest class in terms of pve dps, nerf them anymore and their hits will heal the mobs...

People were getting ganked before the proc sets, its not something that is new. Its not going to go away as long as there is a class specifically designed to gank.

Dev wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

[*] There will still be people dying to one shots in PvP even if they don't crit because crit isn't an issue in PvP if you L2Impen.

Can we please stop this misinformation?

Crit is one of the best stats in pvp. Impen helps but even when you´re full decked out 3000+ impen someone built for critdmg will still hit you significantly harder with a crit compared to a noncrit.

So they hit you for 1k damage more. That 1k isn't what kills you. Its the fact that they can get 5 4k attacks off at nearly the same time before you can react. Nerfing crit on proc sets won't stop people crying about viper/velidreth/widowmaker and you know it.

Please do not post made up numbers. Post actual results of a build setup for critdmg hitting someone with high impen - and then proceed to evaluate how much dmg increase they got from critting.

Again you´re spreading misinformation by posting made up random numbers without a baseline to compare them to. 1k increase on a 2k basedmg ability? That´s still a 50% increase. Preddy damn good (yes i do follow the same route here - as it proves the point i´m making).

Edit: I will later post a screenshot.

Heavy armor. A real set with Impen. Not Trainee trash.



2511+5110+10066+1078+4802+8645+2719+1886+6729+5802=48270 damage. With 50% Battle Spirit.

I got killed in 2 seconds. Got stunned. CC broke. Died before I could get a skill off. Yes, there are a lot of damage inputs there; still did nothing that "fight" except CC break. ZoS's fix is a joke. They either have no clue what's going on in PvP or do not care. I can't tell which it is. How the heck is anyone expected to run around in Light Armor with 25K health "normal" builds?

NBs wonder why their trial DPS sucks and why Zenimax doesn't boost their skills, it is because of abusive crap like that. In what universe is it even compelling gameplay that a very high health build in heavy armor gets insta-killed?. This isn't Call of Duty. It's a joke.

Not saying that this isn't completely ridiculous, but technically it took him 7-10 seconds to kill you and you had 3-4 seconds to react (depending on lag. He buffed up in stealth, prepared a heavy, gap closed, casted ult, then casted his execute twice. Your time to react started at his gap close.

This next bit isn't really for you, but more for the people that don't like the crit nerf on procs.

How much impen do you have? If you have 2k impen (about 30% reduced crit damage) and assuming he is running a 1.72 crit modifier(shadow mundus), his crits still hit you for 40% more damage. That means that his Veli proc would do 6175 damage (if my understanding that crit resist reduction in damage isn't multiplicative but additive) instead of 8645 damage. That's 2500 less damage.

All of this still doesn't really excuse that a 45k health character died that fast. Just goes to show the damage potential in this game. Its unhealthy.

I get it you're trying to make this sound reasonable, but just stop. No he technically didn't take 10 seconds to kill me. If you think my time to react started when he started he gap close, you don't know how NBs gank. Google animation cancelling and then watch any Sribes video. Extended ritual procs every 2 seconds ... it didn't proc again before I died. I got stunned. I cc broke. I died before heal went off. If this didn't happen, I wouldn't lie about it. Some executes in this game are "instant," in that if the skill will kill you, you die before the animations play out. Everyone thinks this is just an RD issue but ask any sorc who use Mage's Wrath. Targets explode before I'm even done pressing the button.

Yes I had >2K Crit resistance and yes damage is out of control. Heavy armor is also out of control. In ZoS's weird way this is somehow "balanced" because offense and defense are both strong, but it's just a stupid arms race of who can abuse what mechanic the most. It's dumb. I am very disappointed ZoS did nothing about this and I wish people would stop apologizing over these abusive mechanics or ZoS's inaction.

Just pointing out that last time i checked, all activations in ESO are on key-release not key-press, so technically your statement i bolded is factually impossible.

If ZOS nerfs anything this patch, I hope they nerf people's ability to pettifog and make zero value-added "technical" observations that ignore the inherent fluidity and obvious hyperbole existent in the way normal people speak.

We all know what @Joy_Division meant. He was saying that Mages Fury is very strong and near instantaneous. Your technical breakdown of the way he phrased that observation adds a sum total of NOTHING to the conversation and just derails it.

The purpose of communication is to convey meaning, not to be "technically correct." Use context clues or ask a friend to interpret if you aren't culturally socialized enough to understand the real meaning behind the words.

My guess however, is that you do actually understand and you just like to argue for the sheer sake of arguing. However, you are simply being petty and contrary and not really responsive to the argument presented.

The evidence presented was that the way game mechanics and ganking works, the Time to Kill is still really low, and certain executes add to that. There are helpful and value-added ways to counter that argument but you need to present your own evidence if you wish to try. If you know of a way to survive a gank build like that without radiant magelight, defensive rune or a clairvoyant add-on, please enlighten us.

It's apparent to most of us that play day to day in cyrodiil that the proc set crit nerf will do nothing to change the FPS style low time to kill that is making this game feel more like counterstrike than an Elder Scolls Game.

isnt the whole point of pvp is to play counterstrike, but with swords and magic?If people want slow paced strategic competition, might i recommend a good game of chess instead?

They cannot fix the inherent issue of ganking without completely rewriting the nb class. The class is designed for one purpose: Buff>Stealth>Kill. If it is nerfed any further it would be: Buff>stealth>Annoy>respawn... NB is already the weakest class in terms of pve dps, nerf them anymore and their hits will heal the mobs...

People were getting ganked before the proc sets, its not something that is new. Its not going to go away as long as there is a class specifically designed to gank.

There is a fine line between having a potent "gank" build capable of delivering a lot of up front damage to gain the upper hand in a fight and just insta-killing an opponent.

The "I play an assassin, I deserve to get a kill" crowd only ever pays attention to their class, not their target. OK, you play a gank class designed to kill. But I play a "tank" designed to survive. Why is the tank build someone invalidated or trumped by the "assassin"? Because "assassins" have more twitch views, are generally perceived as being cooler, and would sell more games?

And the whole, "well, if I fail a gank I'm helpless" routine is a joke. NBs are not helpless face to face fighters, do they even know what Surprise attack, Shadow barrier, and Siphoning attacks do? And this game allows these same nightblades to access the things they are missing from their class trees, whether it's HoTs, Dizzying Swing, and, of course, the stupid proc sets for more damage. The "I'm helpless" routine is just a disingenuous reference to other games where "assassins" really are bad at face to face fighting.

CaliMade wrote: »

I really dont care if they make the game easier nor harder. Just lower the damage ceiling. I currently run a build with 23307 physical resist and 3126 crit resist..to my knowledge 3150 is crit resist cap(?). Yes im in light and have 22k health but those resistances are no joke. yet even with max crit resist i can be burst down against my control with no chance at counter play....i got ganked today and my death recap read off ; 4k ambush, 4k Viper sting, 6k velidreth, 9k incapacitating strike. keep in mind i have ALOT of crit resist. Removing crit from proc sets hurt PVE alot more that more than it helps pvp. Please just go through and adjust the problematic sets instead of blanket nerfing everything. the only proc sets causing trouble are Viper Sting, Velidreth and Treamorscale. Selene and Infernal Guardian are getting fixed so there not the problem. Zenimax please reconsider this change and find another way to nerf These sets.




An for the sake of all of your playerbase, PLEASE add cooldowns to snares and roots. This over everything tbh.

Yeah I think you're at crit resist cap. Those are low numbers. To compensate that ganker should have used Surprise Attack, maybe a flurry, and then killer's blade/shrouded daggers, depending on how far away you managed to get from him.

Of course, it should be possible to gank you down in a few seconds some way, but I agree the proc meta isn't fixed by this.

Proc sets make stamblade a little less fun to be honest. You pretty much have to DW on one bar, and you get lots of boring, pontificating lectures in group chat if you don't have your Viper's/Velidreth/Kra'gh set equipped.

Dev wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

There is a fine line between having a potent "gank" build capable of delivering a lot of up front damage to gain the upper hand in a fight and just insta-killing an opponent.

The "I play an assassin, I deserve to get a kill" crowd only ever pays attention to their class, not their target. OK, you play a gank class designed to kill. But I play a "tank" designed to survive. Why is the tank build someone invalidated or trumped by the "assassin"? Because "assassins" have more twitch views, are generally perceived as being cooler, and would sell more games?

And the whole, "well, if I fail a gank I'm helpless" routine is a joke. NBs are not helpless face to face fighters, do they even know what Surprise attack, Shadow barrier, and Siphoning attacks do? And this game allows these same nightblades to access the things they are missing from their class trees, whether it's HoTs, Dizzying Swing, and, of course, the stupid proc sets for more damage. The "I'm helpless" routine is just a disingenuous reference to other games where "assassins" really are bad at face to face fighting.

I am not talking just a gank build but the fundamental design of the NB class. If you want to use the actual counter class: DK tanks, they should be able to survive a gank but only when they have prepared like the NB does prior to the strike.

There is no reason why an unprepared tank should survive against a prepared assassin.

Let me explain just a little on that; This is, at least imo, what a balanced fight would look like:

1. Take a good DK in full tank role which means maxed for tanking, not the semi-tank/dps model most people are using.
2. the DK puts up his buffs and goes to collect a skyshard, meanwhile in the random bush the NB starts putting up his buffs and gets into position (aka ambush range, or behind if using flanking for w/e reason)
3. The dk just finished the skyshard animation, the NB hits ambush
4. In this case, the DK should live as his defensive buffs should cancel out the NBs offensive buffs.
5. The DK should be down to about 20% health, just enough that the health is a manageable number.
6. The NB should be able to put out enough DPS to be able to kill the DK, but would require a few abilities.
7. The DK should be able to put out enough DPS to kill the glass cannon build
8. this is where skill/luck/ect comes in because at this stage both sides are equal

What people are crying about is the fact that the NB will buff prior to the strike, land the strike, and by the time the player can react it is already too late because they died server side 3ms earlier.

The issue is not that NBs or even proc sets are too strong, its the time aspect and level of preparedness. The gank starts 3 or 4 abilities before the target even knows they are at risk. When your opponent has that much of a head start, it will be difficult to recover.

One idea that could work, and is relatively simple: All defensive buffs and shields remain in effect when not in combat. This way you can buff, run to whatever and if your ganked, then you're on equal footing. Once the combat has started (aka the NB hits ambush), the timers resume. If you forget to buff before traveling, then you failed at being prepared and deserve to get ganked.


People also need to realize that while we can play 'how we want' it is not always going to be ideal. I love my stamSorc, but i 'know' that the class was designed for a magicka ranged role. While it might be ideal for the FoTM / meta, it is not aligned to the function that the 'class' was designed for.

Temp tanks/DPS, DK DPS/heals, Sorc Tank/heal/melee, and Magblades are creations of the player base, and is not the ideal role. They are certainly good for most content, but a melee NB stealth build is the optimal build for the NB class. When you have optimal versus 'second rate', the winner should be optimal especially when optimal has a head start on ability usage.

I hate getting ganked more then the next person, but there is no point in getting upset with a 1trick pony is doing the only trick they were made for.

off hand comment since you mention using builds and being prepared - i know the whtesrake set procs a damage shield at any hits when health <30%. isnt there also another set which procs a shield like out of combat anytime that you haven't taken damage for like 15s or so or something like that?

Seems that set would be a possible candidate for a part of a "travelling in safety" of "air bag" anti-gank build if someone was serious about surviving even "unprepared" against gank builds. Of course, that build wont necessarily be optimal in all circumstances - you might want to swap into a more offensive build or more tanky build for known upcoming combats or raids.

Seems to me "ganky" or "successful ambush kill" SAK is a very specific build for a very narrow goal while "my tank build" actually is useful in quite a few different cases and maybe a dedicated "survive gank" build isn't the same flavor of "tank" one might want for going into the other options where "tanks" are useful.

Different builds for different circumstances is not an unreasonable thing to expect, is it?

STEVIL wrote: »

Different builds for different circumstances is not an unreasonable thing to expect, is it?

I dont think whitesnake would help too much because people still go from 50% to dead before the shield would take effect. I would bet money that we would see the corpse dead on the ground and then get the shield graphic (lag). Funny as hell, but not useful.

Different gear sets is not a bad idea, and i have a few prepared in the 'dressing room' add on. However since gear sets are not an in game feature, it is not available to the console players. It would take too much time for them to swap manually for that to really help. They would survive the trip but the fight would be over by the time they were ready to engage.

Having the timers paused when not in combat is something that would help all platforms, imo at least.