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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Balance direction in Update 13
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Dev✭✭✭✭When a 500 CP player can do wildly more damage than another by virtue of just having theorycrafted a different way or copied a online build, this needs to happen.
Wouldnt the 'wild damage' be the reward for putting in the work to get the 500cp and practice the game enough to get to that point. That people who put in the time and effort to work a build have earned the right to put out the high dps.
People put in a lot of work with their characters, too much for arbitrary reductions and overreaching nerfs to just wash away. It doesnt matter if 'You' think pve is easy, or that the damage is 'too high', because at best those are merely opinions and not facts.
We all know how cheap the game is with good sets in the right traits, so its not like BiS is raining down. The new players, aka the ones without the time and effort, running around in their training and prosperous gear should put out low numbers. That is what you get when you join a 3 year old MMO.
The most important thing for ZOS to remember is we all play the game for our own reasons, and none of them are to help zos succeed. If they do the wrong thing, or make the game worse, people will leave. We didnt know about your company before ESO, and we wont care if you go out of business and all lose your jobs after eso. You serve only one purpose and that is to entertain your customers.
All the MMO companies are funny to watch. They all make the same mistakes, and try to cater to the 'new player'. This drives away everyone else, and then the mmo goes under.- How many WoW clones and wanna-be's has there been in the last 10 years that has failed this way?
- Why do you think that the Elder Scroll name would have more sway then the Star Wars, Star Trek, D&D, and all the other big named brands?
- where are those big name brands today?
Cash stores, rip offs, and such a small audience that its laughable. - where will your company be when ESO is completed?
It could be 6 weeks or 6 years, but at some point you will need a new product to sell us, and we will remember how you managed this and not bother.
Remember the nature of 'casuals' is that they are not fully dedicated, and you're driving away those who are.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When a 500 CP player can do wildly more damage than another by virtue of just having theorycrafted a different way or copied a online build, this needs to happen.
Wouldnt the 'wild damage' be the reward for putting in the work to get the 500cp and practice the game enough to get to that point. That people who put in the time and effort to work a build have earned the right to put out the high dps.
People put in a lot of work with their characters, too much for arbitrary reductions and overreaching nerfs to just wash away. It doesnt matter if 'You' think pve is easy, or that the damage is 'too high', because at best those are merely opinions and not facts.
We all know how cheap the game is with good sets in the right traits, so its not like BiS is raining down. The new players, aka the ones without the time and effort, running around in their training and prosperous gear should put out low numbers. That is what you get when you join a 3 year old MMO.
The most important thing for ZOS to remember is we all play the game for our own reasons, and none of them are to help zos succeed. If they do the wrong thing, or make the game worse, people will leave. We didnt know about your company before ESO, and we wont care if you go out of business and all lose your jobs after eso. You serve only one purpose and that is to entertain your customers.
All the MMO companies are funny to watch. They all make the same mistakes, and try to cater to the 'new player'. This drives away everyone else, and then the mmo goes under.- How many WoW clones and wanna-be's has there been in the last 10 years that has failed this way?
- Why do you think that the Elder Scroll name would have more sway then the Star Wars, Star Trek, D&D, and all the other big named brands?
- where are those big name brands today?
Cash stores, rip offs, and such a small audience that its laughable. - where will your company be when ESO is completed?
It could be 6 weeks or 6 years, but at some point you will need a new product to sell us, and we will remember how you managed this and not bother.
Remember the nature of 'casuals' is that they are not fully dedicated, and you're driving away those who are.
1. Honestly I dont know. I can list how many games die from trying to focus on the hardcore at the expense of everyone else. Wildstar, Champions online's death knell, I could go on but you get the idea. Meanwhile, something like GW2 that didn't try to be hardcore as hell is going strong.
2. Star wars galaxies was another game that tried to capitalize on it's fanbase, and Elder scrolls is no different. Unlike Galaxies, this had better design but is actually falling into alot of the same traps SWG fell into.
I just wanted to point those two things out (The anti casual rhetoric is rhetoric, as brainless and idiotic as it was then as it is now) but for the most part, your actually correct. I dont trust ZOS to manage another MMO. I dont even trust them to fix this one.0 -
Doctordarkspawn wrote: »When a 500 CP player can do wildly more damage than another by virtue of just having theorycrafted a different way or copied a online build, this needs to happen.
Wouldnt the 'wild damage' be the reward for putting in the work to get the 500cp and practice the game enough to get to that point. That people who put in the time and effort to work a build have earned the right to put out the high dps.
People put in a lot of work with their characters, too much for arbitrary reductions and overreaching nerfs to just wash away. It doesnt matter if 'You' think pve is easy, or that the damage is 'too high', because at best those are merely opinions and not facts.
We all know how cheap the game is with good sets in the right traits, so its not like BiS is raining down. The new players, aka the ones without the time and effort, running around in their training and prosperous gear should put out low numbers. That is what you get when you join a 3 year old MMO.
The most important thing for ZOS to remember is we all play the game for our own reasons, and none of them are to help zos succeed. If they do the wrong thing, or make the game worse, people will leave. We didnt know about your company before ESO, and we wont care if you go out of business and all lose your jobs after eso. You serve only one purpose and that is to entertain your customers.
All the MMO companies are funny to watch. They all make the same mistakes, and try to cater to the 'new player'. This drives away everyone else, and then the mmo goes under.- How many WoW clones and wanna-be's has there been in the last 10 years that has failed this way?
- Why do you think that the Elder Scroll name would have more sway then the Star Wars, Star Trek, D&D, and all the other big named brands?
- where are those big name brands today?
Cash stores, rip offs, and such a small audience that its laughable. - where will your company be when ESO is completed?
It could be 6 weeks or 6 years, but at some point you will need a new product to sell us, and we will remember how you managed this and not bother.
Remember the nature of 'casuals' is that they are not fully dedicated, and you're driving away those who are.
1. Honestly I dont know. I can list how many games die from trying to focus on the hardcore at the expense of everyone else. Wildstar, Champions online's death knell, I could go on but you get the idea. Meanwhile, something like GW2 that didn't try to be hardcore as hell is going strong.
2. Star wars galaxies was another game that tried to capitalize on it's fanbase, and Elder scrolls is no different. Unlike Galaxies, this had better design but is actually falling into alot of the same traps SWG fell into.
I just wanted to point those two things out (The anti casual rhetoric is rhetoric, as brainless and idiotic as it was then as it is now) but for the most part, your actually correct. I dont trust ZOS to manage another MMO. I dont even trust them to fix this one.
Just saying gw2 isn't doing good and swg shutdown cause they swayed away from there whole player base to get more "casuals" to play. I'm not taking either side. Just stating facts.0 -
@ZOS_RichLambert
ANOTHER step in the wrong direction, no loyalty to long time players, and build crafters....
with heavy armor, proc sets, and broken mechanics , removal of vet levels, constant EXP boosts,
monster sets practically thrown at you, increase champ point obtainment speed etc....
I understand the appeal of trying to attract new players, maybe if these steps had been in place at the games release,
but to continually encourage new characters / players at the expense of people who have worked so hard to get to this level is ridic bud....
lower the damage ceiling and raise the min...... why bother continuing to play, character balance shouldn't be at the expense of character diversity ... nor at the expense of longtime players.....playing the game for a year SHOULD give me a large competitive edge over new players....this difference is what drives newer players to play more and advance further into the game.2 -
Paneross✭✭✭✭✭This update feels like Nerf Templar to the ground. Buff DK, nerf Stamsorc and barely touch stamblade.1
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argouru✭✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »Update 13 has been out on the PTS for almost a week now and there’s been a lot of good feedback and questions posted with regards to the balance changes. I wanted to take a few moments to briefly discuss the overall direction for these changes so you can hopefully start to see why these changes are occurring.
For Update 13, our overall goal was to lessen the gap between the top and bottom. (in terms of overall damage output, coordinated vs. uncoordinated, small and large scale PVE & PVP) This doesn’t mean all classes are perfectly equal in all ways or that we want to remove skill from the game. We want to establish a solid baseline so that we can better tune and tweak balance. For this update we attacked this problem from multiple angles by doing the following:- Lowering the ceiling on the top damage
- Raising the floor on the bottom damage
- Simplifying some of the more intense rotations to make them a bit easier for players of all skill levels
Some of you will probably ask how the above goals translate into the changes we made. Here are some notes on a couple of the more hotly debated ones so you can see how they fit into the bigger picture:- Proc Sets – This change falls directly into the “lower the ceiling” category for both PVP and PVE. We wanted to reduce the overall burst potential without dramatically lowering sustain. There have been a lot of comments on this change, specifically from the PVP side where sets not critting will not help because of the Impenetrable trait - Impen does not reduce the chance of being crit - it reduces the damage of the crit that hits you.
- Stun Removal on Blazing Spear – This change falls into the “simplify” category. We increased the duration of the damage on this ability to simplify the rotation. In addition we removed the stun component. Now the morph choices are more damage or more resources and disorient. (CC)
- Radiant Destruction – This one is definitely in the “lower the ceiling” category. It was strong in both PVE and PVP and needed adjustment.
- Haunting Curse – This one falls into the “simplify” category. The goal was to free up globals for more abilities to be cast with this change. (i.e. – every 10.5 seconds you get to use 3 more abilities) @Alpheu5 has a pretty great image that illustrates this change in this thread.
I didn't touch on every change or class, but I hope that sheds some light into how and why we've made some of the changes we've made. We have a lot more balance changes planned, but due to how our build cycle works, most of them won't make the next PTS build - they should hopefully make PTS3 though.
It should also be noted that what is on PTS now is our first pass at these changes. We’re evaluating all of them and will make adjustments based on both feedback and data collected, so please continue to test them on PTS and give feedback.
-rich
One major concern for me as a low to medium skilled player who lacks top of BIS gear is that with the changes, the difficulty of vet-level content (vet dungeons, trials, world bosses and arenas) will make them impossible to complete. I hope you address these issues as I am worried that end-of-game content will become unplayable for me, based on what all I have been hearing on how the changes affect long, drawn out battles against strong npc bosses. I understand your desire to tone down overpowered play, but a balance is needed so that players can still play the harder content with a decent chance of success.0 -
spiiros✭✭✭"We want to establish a solid baseline so that we can better tune and tweak balance. For this update we attacked this problem from multiple angles by doing the following"
How can you do that if patch the game basically once a year.1
