PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

exsecror · January 2017

jasonteck wrote: »

reducing hurricane seems to make things unbalanced. Stam sorcs only have a few sorc skills that we can use. all other races have so many. this is the one skill that gives us any time of advantage. Seems that this should be left alone.

Stamsorcs are my favorite and this nerf hurts. We don't have an execute and this was one ability that kind of made up for it in my mind. It's not like it even hit that hard to begin with. Then the proc nerf and crit nerf.. and then they boost the stam class that can beat us

leepalmer95 · January 2017

exsecror wrote: »

jasonteck wrote: »

reducing hurricane seems to make things unbalanced. Stam sorcs only have a few sorc skills that we can use. all other races have so many. this is the one skill that gives us any time of advantage. Seems that this should be left alone.

Stamsorcs are my favorite and this nerf hurts. We don't have an execute and this was one ability that kind of made up for it in my mind. It's not like it even hit that hard to begin with. Then the proc nerf and crit nerf.. and then they boost the stam class that can beat us

@jasonteck Hurricane was hitting too hard, it gives armor, movement speed and the dot was hitting very hard with a large aoe. It needed adjusting.

@exsecror You won't even feel the nerf, stam took a hit overall this patch but stam sorc will still have their broken dark deal and will likely be the only class that can run around with 600 regen in heavy and sustain perfectly. It'll still be the strongest for open world by far.

jarydf · January 2017

May be we can throw the stick for all the pets you obviously want us to adopt. ZOS Daedric pet rescue. Adopt now!

exsecror · January 2017

Akimbro wrote: »

@GlassHalfFull wrote: »

I played around a bit with my Sorc to investigate the changes, and I have concluded these items:
The time nerf change to Velocious Curse is unneccesary and makers the skill far less useful, if at all.

The quantity change to 500 for ultimates, meaning Overload is really strange, and makes this skill far less usefull, especially in long duration PvE.

In the five guilds I belong to, only the newbie players use pets, why are you still pushing them?

The change to the staffs is interesting, but makes it a requirement to have multiple staffs and switch them out based on solo or group. I wont use the frost tank staff, but i can ssee other using it. I do wonder if the tri-focus was the best passive to base this on.

Ah I forgot to mention the 500 ulti cap in my post. This is just terrible. For people who solo, this just sucks. Overload is one of the only burst-on-command ability that sorcs have. Everything else is a dot or support ability. Sorcs that use overload in vMA have just gotten gimped, whereas other classes get to keep their burst potential.

I used to get my burst potential from red mountain and velidreth.. not anymore. Yehaw.

psychotic13 · January 2017

I'd prefer velocious over haunting curse, I could deal with using daedric prey if the pets scaled with CP though

Minalan · January 2017

Dracane wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

You guys can all rot in hell for killing magika sorc for pvp with this curse nerf.

Sub canceled, game uninstalled, forum posting over.

It was a good run guys, but ZoS is *** terrible, they ruin every play style they create.

Are you on xbox eu? Can i have your stuff plzkthx?

Jokes aside, no need to get this upset about 1 skill change that still has a chance to get reverted, just like the lightning staff one.

They. Never. Revert. Anything. My friend, we should already have a transition plan in place, I'm checking out SWTOR again. It's been awhile.

I hope I'm wrong about it, but I doubt it.

Yes, they once gave Altmer 3% more magicka regen (well deserved) but then they took it away in the 2nd pts week because people were complaining

That was a buff they reverted, not a nerf.

Just like that 8% fire staff damage buff. It's doomed once someone (smart) at ZOS sees the new parses people are putting up with it. They're ridiculous.

But curse? Yeah. Get used to it. Bad designers are bad. Have fun being free AP Pinatas for stamina builds for the next five to six months.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2017

I don't understand why they nerf Velocious Curse and buff petsorcs. I'm worried about that changes because petsorc is already much stronger than people think (probably because it's difficult to play) and we will see 50k+ magicka petsorcs who will just stack two shields and can block a lot on top of that with a frost staff.
Normal sorcs will probably suffer from the Velocious Curse nerf. I don't play a sorc but I don't think that a nerf to Curse is justified.

Izaki · January 2017

Frankly I'm more and more forgetting this Curse nerf and getting more and more mad at the fact that stamina builds are RIP in trials. Yes, even stam DK struggle to out DPS a magicka sorc in pure single target. Its nonesense.
At this point we just have to pray that ZOS will revert the change...

TreeHugger1 · January 2017

Come on guys,hype the forum till zos will revert curse's nerf.
More enthusiasm please.

covenant_merchant · January 2017

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Frankly I'm more and more forgetting this Curse nerf and getting more and more mad at the fact that stamina builds are RIP in trials. Yes, even stam DK struggle to out DPS a magicka sorc in pure single target. Its nonesense.
At this point we just have to pray that ZOS will revert the change...

I'm still mad they haven't done anything about Tremorscale or proc-stacking. @ZOS_GinaBruno team? You were supposed to bring balance to the game! Not leave it in darkness.

Minalan · January 2017

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I keep hearing from other people that I need to calm down and just adapt. Or... it's only 2.5 seconds, what's the big deal? Why are you so mad? Why are you taking a break over this?

A 3.5 second curse forces stamina builds to use some defensive CD's instead of a non stop litany of animation cancelled crit rushes, tremorscale, and melee attacks.

You can land a 3.5 second curse on someone in mist form, and time it so that it explodes when they finally come out of it.

You can hit a stealth ganker, and force him out of his 4 second cloak before he escapes for good. He's long gone in six seconds.

A 3.5 second curse sometimes hits templars, a 6 and a 12 second explosion will NEVER land on them. They will be purged. Every. Single. Time.

People in groups with templars will have their curses purged for them, a tiny fraction of people will ever be hit by the 'echo explosion' at 12 seconds.

A 3.5 second VC keeps pressure on a permanent block tank. You know the guys who tank 40 people forever because of terrible block mechanics design? Resto staff heavy attacks, magicka poison, and unblockable curse. They eventually die. Nerfing VC is a BUFF to them.

There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand how bad this change ruins our day to day gameplay. I DO. I know what I'm talking about.

Curse is our ONE ability that can't be blocked or dodge rolled, how is it a good thing that we can only do TWO in a 12 second period instead of THREE?

It's horrible. Revert it.

Beardimus · January 2017

Pet changes are awesome and needed. It's niche, and need targeting ability on consoles but they are gunna help.

Curse we need to wait and see.

It's the Overload Nerf that's the biggest thing here. Killing off Dual Wield once and for all and impact to Overload with no reasoning or explanation to Nerf something NO ONE had a problem with...

Just feels that all spec builds are going to be the same now, filling it all down further.

Force-Siphon · January 2017

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

The_Bull · January 2017

This is my first post on the forums but I have been an active reader on here for the last year. I decided to come on and post because sorcs need to voice our opinions. I started playing Sorcerer and always had a blast, but lately it's been really hard to play with streak nerf, shield nerf, and light armor just being so squishy. We are now forced to play defense so much because if we don't we will get one shot very easily if our shields aren't up. Nothing will change next patch with this because people can still stack proc sets and there wasn't a nerf to heavy armor. @Wrobel Do you know how hard it is to kill a Templar in heavy or any stam character for that matter. We need this curse 3.5 second burst to do it and still be able to keep our shields up. Honestly it's a very skillful class and requires a learning curve which is why I really liked the class, but the direction sorcs have been going lately is not fun. The haunting curse morph is really bad because anybody will be able to heal up easily between each explosion and templars can easily purge it off. Nobody will use this ability in PVP anymore because it won't be worth it. If you feel like it might be to much damage because of the increase damage of the destruction staff then maybe tweak the damage to compensate but keep the 3.5 second duration. That seems more logical to me or change the other morph of curse since nobody uses it.

Also please stop pushing pets on us. Honestly I think you should take the pets out of the skills and make them a separate skill line that anybody can use. Then rework the passives and put in good skills that sorcs can use. Eso was supposed to be play as you want, and I don't want to play with pets. @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Gothren · January 2017

The_Bull wrote: »

Also please stop pushing pets on us. Honestly I think you should take the pets out of the skills and make them a separate skill line that anybody can use. Then rework the passives and put in good skills that sorcs can use. Eso was supposed to be play as you want, and I don't want to play with pets. @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

how about no. @Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

Derra · January 2017

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

Sandman929 · January 2017

The change to Curse hurts pet sorcs too. Pet sorcs aren't celebrating the overall nerf to the class. The timing of Curse is absolutely vital to the rotation on my Sorc. I'll try out Daedric Prey and probably opt for Twilight Tormentor with this change, but I don't think it's going to work out.
The folks hurt the worst are DW Sorcs....what are they supposed to do?

Lexxypwns · January 2017

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Its *** mDK all over again. Except this time they're gutting a class that is definitely not over performing, *** ZoS.

STEVIL · January 2017

Minalan wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I keep hearing from other people that I need to calm down and just adapt. Or... it's only 2.5 seconds, what's the big deal? Why are you so mad? Why are you taking a break over this?

A 3.5 second curse forces stamina builds to use some defensive CD's instead of a non stop litany of animation cancelled crit rushes, tremorscale, and melee attacks.

You can land a 3.5 second curse on someone in mist form, and time it so that it explodes when they finally come out of it.

You can hit a stealth ganker, and force him out of his 4 second cloak before he escapes for good. He's long gone in six seconds.

A 3.5 second curse sometimes hits templars, a 6 and a 12 second explosion will NEVER land on them. They will be purged. Every. Single. Time.

People in groups with templars will have their curses purged for them, a tiny fraction of people will ever be hit by the 'echo explosion' at 12 seconds.

A 3.5 second VC keeps pressure on a permanent block tank. You know the guys who tank 40 people forever because of terrible block mechanics design? Resto staff heavy attacks, magicka poison, and unblockable curse. They eventually die. Nerfing VC is a BUFF to them.

There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand how bad this change ruins our day to day gameplay. I DO. I know what I'm talking about.

Curse is our ONE ability that can't be blocked or dodge rolled, how is it a good thing that we can only do TWO in a 12 second period instead of THREE?

It's horrible. Revert it.

Dealing with the last question...

In 12s you can now pts do say one click on curse, two clicks on say force pulse or fast frags and say all the other things you can do in 12s.
Old way you could do three clicks on VC and all the other things you can do in 9s.

So in terms of ticks and hits - you get against a target dummy two curse booms and two force pulse or fast frags as opposed to three VC booms.

BARRING countermeasures etc - the damage difference is not against the change but rather in its favor and if it were three booms somehow, every 4 or 6 then 3 then 3 - the damage would be much higher in favor of the new one (esp given the 8% thing)

That said, of course the same tactics and deployments that a 3.5s VC got would not necessarily apply to the 6-12s version and so things will change.

Force-Siphon · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

lol yea RIP dw sorcs...i like the destro buffs for sure so far

DragonBound · January 2017

Birdovic wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

I think the destro staff changes could give us more dmg than the curse nerf take away. (PVE)

Frontbar: Inferno Staff for single target
Backbar: Lightning Staff for AoE

The question is, got Blockade and Liquid the 8% AoE Bonus from Lightning Staffs?

PvE more damage for sure, yes.
The PvP Portion of the game is, where this curse change hurts so much though.

For your question concerning Blockade + Liquid Lightning:
The tooltip implies that ALL your AoE Abilities are affected. Lets say Negation field should also be affected, for instance.

For me this is a good thing for the increase in dps for pve, but it will make the skill more boring in my opinion, and if I ever wanted to run a sorc in pvp this will certainly hurt that I feel for all the sorc pvpers out there, I wonder if this is the main reason they nerfed overload as well because of the passive increases from staff now.

Minalan · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

Sorc is in a really good place if your idea of PVP is to faceroll staff attacks and force pulse until frags is proc'ed.

If your idea of PVP is to follow a 'rotation'. This patch is probably for you.

For those of us that applied curse thoughtfully to counter and pressure good players employing specific nasty gameplay mechanics (purge, cloak, block tanks, breath of life, reflect, dodge roll, etc). This is a nerf. Not just a small nerf either. The really good sorcs lining up to bail out know exactly what I'm talking about.

PVP is more than spamming heavy attack and hitting the "1" key until your stupid add-on tells you that frags is up. It takes thought and awareness. There is a reason 3.5 seconds worked so well.

jarydf · January 2017

The staff passive will not apply to overload. No weapon passives do. I still don't get why this is happening? Who was 1000 max ultimate a problem for? Why did it need to be "fixed/nerfed"? The staff change is a 10% nerf to staff heavy attacks due to the charge speed passive it replaces with a single target OR aoe 8% given back.

ku5h · January 2017

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

So 8% buff to AoE makes up for completely ruining fundamental part of your burst. Yea sure your are not biased at all.

RadioheadSh0t · January 2017

This Velocius Curse Nerf is the DUMBEST CRAP EVER.

So, stacked instant proc sets: okay. An explosion that detonates after 3.5 seconds that does less damage than a lot of instant abilities: not okay.

WTF were you thinking ZOS?

RadioheadSh0t · January 2017

Seriously, can one patch go by where ZOS doesn't screw over Sorcs?

However many streak nerfs
Surge nerf.
Negate nerf.
Shield nerf.
Other nerfs I'm probably forgetting.
Now curse nerf?

Curse isn't even that good, and it's getting gutted? WTF?!?!

Sandman929 · January 2017

I don't think they see it as a nerf, but as a fun new direction that players are going to really love...which is even scarier because if that's the case they truly have no idea what they're doing.
Of course, that's just conjecture. ZOS could simply EXPLAIN THEMSELVES and put all this to bed.
But, I dream.

Derra · January 2017

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

Sorc is in a really good place if your idea of PVP is to faceroll staff attacks and force pulse until frags is proc'ed.

If your idea of PVP is to follow a 'rotation'. This patch is probably for you.

For those of us that applied curse thoughtfully to counter and pressure good players employing specific nasty gameplay mechanics (purge, cloak, block tanks, breath of life, reflect, dodge roll, etc). This is a nerf. Not just a small nerf either. The really good sorcs lining up to bail out know exactly what I'm talking about.

PVP is more than spamming heavy attack and hitting the "1" key until your stupid add-on tells you that frags is up. It takes thought and awareness. There is a reason 3.5 seconds worked so well.

Huh?
Basically the higher your curse uptime the better of a sorc you are currently. It´s not rocketscience but atleast takes a small amount of thought to use curse to it´s full potential currently.

However looking at sorcs in general it´s not a big nerf when figuring in that it comes with an 8% dmg increase and a freed up skillslot on your frontbar. That´s pretty huge and for the first time allows sorcs to have a customizeable skillslot.
I might even be inclined to slot encase just for the lols.

Minalan · January 2017

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

I keep hearing from other people that I need to calm down and just adapt. Or... it's only 2.5 seconds, what's the big deal? Why are you so mad? Why are you taking a break over this?

A 3.5 second curse forces stamina builds to use some defensive CD's instead of a non stop litany of animation cancelled crit rushes, tremorscale, and melee attacks.

You can land a 3.5 second curse on someone in mist form, and time it so that it explodes when they finally come out of it.

You can hit a stealth ganker, and force him out of his 4 second cloak before he escapes for good. He's long gone in six seconds.

A 3.5 second curse sometimes hits templars, a 6 and a 12 second explosion will NEVER land on them. They will be purged. Every. Single. Time.

People in groups with templars will have their curses purged for them, a tiny fraction of people will ever be hit by the 'echo explosion' at 12 seconds.

A 3.5 second VC keeps pressure on a permanent block tank. You know the guys who tank 40 people forever because of terrible block mechanics design? Resto staff heavy attacks, magicka poison, and unblockable curse. They eventually die. Nerfing VC is a BUFF to them.

There are SO many reasons to keep a 3.5 second velocious curse, I can't expect someone who doesn't play the class in PVP to understand how bad this change ruins our day to day gameplay. I DO. I know what I'm talking about.

Curse is our ONE ability that can't be blocked or dodge rolled, how is it a good thing that we can only do TWO in a 12 second period instead of THREE?

It's horrible. Revert it.

Dealing with the last question...

In 12s you can now pts do say one click on curse, two clicks on say force pulse or fast frags and say all the other things you can do in 12s.
Old way you could do three clicks on VC and all the other things you can do in 9s.

So in terms of ticks and hits - you get against a target dummy two curse booms and two force pulse or fast frags as opposed to three VC booms.

BARRING countermeasures etc - the damage difference is not against the change but rather in its favor and if it were three booms somehow, every 4 or 6 then 3 then 3 - the damage would be much higher in favor of the new one (esp given the 8% thing)

That said, of course the same tactics and deployments that a 3.5s VC got would not necessarily apply to the 6-12s version and so things will change.

It's not just things will 'change'. They'll change for the worst across the board in every combat scenario I can think of.

Nightblades will usually escape, they're out of detect pot range in three and gone in six seconds.
Templars will purge your curse, and purge curse from everyone in their group. You need to understand how immune they are now to sorc burst damage.
You can't pressure DK's when wings go up, right now you see wings you just curse them and attack when it explodes.
You can't apply serious pressure to dodge rollers, right now when you see an injured dodge roller running, curse can take them out before vigor saves them.
You can't pressure stam builds in a close quarters fight.
You have no serious counter to block tanks. Everyone in Cyrodiil that scotch tapes down their block button gets a reprieve. They'll easily outheal a curse every six seconds.

I suspect some people are bad at math. 8% damage is great in a PVE parse, but PVP is a burst game. Not a DPS one. You need to hit someone with more damage than they can heal or mitigate. A 2K force pulse will hit for what, 2160? An 8K curse will do 8600? 10K frag? 10,800. Come on....

Enjoy your 1500 *** damage. And 500 DPS.

OtarTheMad · January 2017

I don't see why they would change curse and nerf ultimates (which screwed over Overload). It's not like those abilities were OP or got a lot of complaints. They were right where they should have been, seems like an odd choice to me.

Sorc was my favorite class, my class since beta but they are making it harder and harder to justify logging onto him. I just don't see why they would nerf abilities that were balanced. It's like they are changing things for the sake of changing them.

"Patch notes aren't long enough. We need more"
"Change Curse and Ultimates and also throw in a nerf to DK wings and a NB ability"
"Good idea"