PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

jarydf

Just leave the ultimate pool alone please. Let me use overloads as my single target ability. Everyone loves to tell me how rubbish it is. Why nerf it further?

exiledtyrant

Two things so far have stuck out me regarding sorcerer changes:

1. The reduction of hurricane damage
2. Yet another reduced cost for encase

For the first point I can't understand why hurricane has had its damage reduced. It has certainly helped sustained damage over the past few patches, but has never seemed to be a major outlier in performance. It is usually 3rd in damage on my AOE fights and 4th or 5th for damage in my single target fights. That's while playing stam builds dedicated to physical and damage over time abilities. Is this being done so more stamina damage can be made available in future patches, or is it just a way to nerf high performing trial sorcerers while crippling everyone else?

Secondly reducing encase cost again doesn't really fix anything. Back when I played my sorc as magicka I was able to use encase as much as I wanted. It wasn't the cost holding me back, but the skill itself. The hit box as a line AOE root just doesn't play well. It is unreliable and limiting because it only faces one direction. Then there are the morphs themselves. The damage morph always needed a ridiculous amount of enemies stacked together to make it appealing. The snare morph doesn't trigger if people roll out of encase and there are more reliable ways to snare someone.

As someone who plays stamina sorcerer only now I would love a way to incorporate encase because rooted enemies trigger a 15% damage bonus for dual wield. The problem is the cost would have to be so low that it would be beyond trivial for a magicka sorcerer to use, along with the fact that the skill itself is still lackluster.

What I propose is that the hitbox of encase be revamped into a point blank AOE and the morphs themselves be made more appealing.

acw37162

I was prepared to give haunting curse a chance but this is kinda ridiclious.

Please do some combination of the following;

Revert the changes completely (this is preferred but also the lest likely)

Alow curse to be stacked twice on a target one echo and one curse

Allow multiple targets up to three to be cursed at the same time.

Very disappointing you can't stack a new curse on the echo that was going to the only saving grace for this change.

Icarus42

When I first read the patch notes my brain told me that it wasnt velocious curse that was getting stomped on, but the pet version of curse, which my rational mind was able to cope with. They need to leave velocious alone, and if they need to use this hair brained idea, then please by all means use it on the pet morph of curse (which I have never used obviously)

mewcatus

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

luen79rwb17_ESO

Overload indirect nerf was totally uncalled. Totally niche ultimate, what's the point to make it less appealing now?? I just don't understand

riVALry9

gibous wrote: »

I don't hate the idea of pets, I hate how they work. They are ticklers, they tickle the enemy.

I couldn't have described pets better if I tried with all my might. Lol

riVALry9

mewcatus wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

Your logic is severely flawed, my friend. As a non-pet Sorc, I also would like to see pets buffed and made to be more "user friendly" for those who like to use them. Someone above stated it perfectly: the main reason, by far, that I don't use pets is simply because I don't want to deal with micromanaging an AI while in the midst of a chaotic PvP brawl. That's it. It's nothing personal and not because I feel that pet builds are inferior. You can buff one without destroying the other.

SanSan

Remove the pets. That'll be nice.

DHale

Shields to 8 seconds at least. The new curse need to be nerfed back to 3.5 seconds. To burst someone for 12 seconds... not good.

Seriva

Xsorus wrote: »

There needs to be a way to have your pets target who you want in pvp, they're fine in duels but in cyrodiil pvp they're ass

There already is. Go into Menu -> Controls -> Combat Submenu -> Command Pet. Hold whatever button that is bound to and left click to force your pet/s to attack whatever is highlighted. If you hold the button and right click, your pets will be put into passive mode and will not attack anything for any reason.

Vicentius

Promise my sorc will just sit there and collect dust till ZOS fixes this nonsense... If they want my money on subs and crowns or whatever.. don't *** my game up man..

IzanagiTensei-O

hello? anybody(at zos) there? listening?

cpuScientist

Hey so really quick. The echo is not a DPS loss it's a boost. This is because the way DPS works is not total damage done it is damage per second. So the echo gives you a free cast meaning you click once and go back to your weave. And get 2 casts instead of activating the skill 3 times in 12 seconds you do it once. It will need testing but it seems like a small PvE DPS buff, also it can now be moved to back bar allowing for some bar flexibility. However it is a terrible PvP nerf. Where burst is king and keeping pressure up.

Gothren

gibous wrote: »

Curse rekt. Pets buffed. PFFT!

Sorcs have no dots or debuffs to speak of. Sorc is a class designed around timing high direct damage. Look at frags, the timing is RNG for a procced frag. Look at curse, it pops after several seconds - and look at fury which has a timing component.

Stop pushing the pets - or make them more interesting and skill-based. Let me summon a kamikaze twilight, not requiring a toggle, and then let me activate it to fly into my target for burst damage. I don't hate the idea of pets, I hate how they work. They are ticklers, they tickle the enemy. They are counter to the sorc design. They are counter to engaging play - as is the new curse. It's like, OK run the pets, run the curse. That leaves you with like 2 abilities to actively cast. LOL WHY! You think I can't keep uptime on curse? You think I'm playing sorc with one hand or my feet or something?

People want to control their characters they don't want toggle-and-forget. Or make the pets work like the nightblade's shade. Just require 1 slot and have to be re-cast if they die or expire. Uptime awareness involves much more interesting and rewarding play.

Delete haunting, restore velocious!

umm ok stay away from pets if you don't know how to use them. you don't know how to use them then thats your fault.

derpmander

mewcatus wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

Its not about how much more DPS we non-pet magsorcs do, its about how nonexistant pet DPS magsorcs are. Your pets aggro the boss and get in the way. If you use pets, you better be 1v X'ing or Solo-ing dungeons like Thelon or whoever else beasts on solo content.

Gothren

mewcatus wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

i laugh at how many people think zos is pushing pet builds. they are not. buffs to them were needed and was long overdue. they feel entitled that their build choice should automatically be superior, which makes me lol even harder.

mewcatus

riVALry9 wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

Your logic is severely flawed, my friend. As a non-pet Sorc, I also would like to see pets buffed and made to be more "user friendly" for those who like to use them. Someone above stated it perfectly: the main reason, by far, that I don't use pets is simply because I don't want to deal with micromanaging an AI while in the midst of a chaotic PvP brawl. That's it. It's nothing personal and not because I feel that pet builds are inferior. You can buff one without destroying the other.

This isn't the case of nerfing only non pet sorcs, but an across the board DPS nerf for all classes, primarily for some of the most popular builds. My logic is perfectly sound, considering I work as a Game Designer too. Power Creeping is a real and true thing. Just look at stat inflation in Diablo 3.

The only explanation to a nerf to DPS which directly impacts the most popular builds is obviously an attempt to curtial Power Creeping, without having to touch the Mobs itself. Raising the CP to 600 also factors into this.

So my statement makes sense. Pull all the most popular builds down, while slowly raising the rest. Keep the Mobs as the status quo.

DragonBound

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey so really quick. The echo is not a DPS loss it's a boost. This is because the way DPS works is not total damage done it is damage per second. So the echo gives you a free cast meaning you click once and go back to your weave. And get 2 casts instead of activating the skill 3 times in 12 seconds you do it once. It will need testing but it seems like a small PvE DPS buff, also it can now be moved to back bar allowing for some bar flexibility. However it is a terrible PvP nerf. Where burst is king and keeping pressure up.

So the dps is actually better in pve? I do not see how it can be for trash mobs though.

Betheny

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey so really quick. The echo is not a DPS loss it's a boost. This is because the way DPS works is not total damage done it is damage per second. So the echo gives you a free cast meaning you click once and go back to your weave. And get 2 casts instead of activating the skill 3 times in 12 seconds you do it once. It will need testing but it seems like a small PvE DPS buff, also it can now be moved to back bar allowing for some bar flexibility. However it is a terrible PvP nerf. Where burst is king and keeping pressure up.

...with Velocious Curse you cast it twice and get two blasts in seven seconds.

With Haunting Curse you cast it once and get two blasts in TWELVE seconds.

That's a dps nerf.

Thornen

Betheny wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey so really quick. The echo is not a DPS loss it's a boost. This is because the way DPS works is not total damage done it is damage per second. So the echo gives you a free cast meaning you click once and go back to your weave. And get 2 casts instead of activating the skill 3 times in 12 seconds you do it once. It will need testing but it seems like a small PvE DPS buff, also it can now be moved to back bar allowing for some bar flexibility. However it is a terrible PvP nerf. Where burst is king and keeping pressure up.

...with Velocious Curse you cast it twice and get two blasts in seven seconds.

With Haunting Curse you cast it once and get two blasts in TWELVE seconds.

That's a dps nerf.

Its a slight pve nerf due to extra weaving...yawn. (Magicka sorc is already the most boring class to play in pve just got even more boring. But wait I could use pets and have even 1 less skill to use lul.)

It's a major pvp nerf to sorc burst.

If the changes go live as they are now my sorc class will be storage from here on out thanks wrobel. Lucky I have a stam sorc cause heavy armor, dark deal didn't even get looked out so for the next 3 month I can continue to play the heavy armour tank meta.

FriedEggSandwich

mewcatus wrote: »

riVALry9 wrote: »

mewcatus wrote: »

As a Pet Sorc, I like the changes. But most of all, I am tired of Non Pet Mag Sorcs belittling Pet Mag Sorcs while bragging about how much more dps they can put out. Recognizing the issue of power creep, I hope they put out more nerfs to non Pet Sorcs while buffing pet Sorcs to equalize both on a similar level.

Your logic is severely flawed, my friend. As a non-pet Sorc, I also would like to see pets buffed and made to be more "user friendly" for those who like to use them. Someone above stated it perfectly: the main reason, by far, that I don't use pets is simply because I don't want to deal with micromanaging an AI while in the midst of a chaotic PvP brawl. That's it. It's nothing personal and not because I feel that pet builds are inferior. You can buff one without destroying the other.

This isn't the case of nerfing only non pet sorcs, but an across the board DPS nerf for all classes, primarily for some of the most popular builds. My logic is perfectly sound, considering I work as a Game Designer too. Power Creeping is a real and true thing. Just look at stat inflation in Diablo 3.

The only explanation to a nerf to DPS which directly impacts the most popular builds is obviously an attempt to curtial Power Creeping, without having to touch the Mobs itself. Raising the CP to 600 also factors into this.

So my statement makes sense. Pull all the most popular builds down, while slowly raising the rest. Keep the Mobs as the status quo.

Power creep is something introduced by zos. You can't give to your customers and then take it away in the next patch if you want to keep them sweet. I'm not a game designer and this is clear to me. Power creep is not a couple of overtuned skills/sets that need toning down, it's the gradual raising of stats implemented by zos which should affect all players equally. The way you speak it's as if players should suffer for power creep. It's up to zos to find ways to combat power creep without souring large portions of their player base.

Your initial comment was worded in a way that made it sound like you wanted non-pet sorcs nerfed out of spite, which is flawed logic. Pet sorcs and non-pet sorcs are the same class, we use the same skills apart from 2. You can't hope for a nerf to one but not the other. More flawed logic.

Betheny

Thornen wrote: »

Betheny wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

Hey so really quick. The echo is not a DPS loss it's a boost. This is because the way DPS works is not total damage done it is damage per second. So the echo gives you a free cast meaning you click once and go back to your weave. And get 2 casts instead of activating the skill 3 times in 12 seconds you do it once. It will need testing but it seems like a small PvE DPS buff, also it can now be moved to back bar allowing for some bar flexibility. However it is a terrible PvP nerf. Where burst is king and keeping pressure up.

...with Velocious Curse you cast it twice and get two blasts in seven seconds.

With Haunting Curse you cast it once and get two blasts in TWELVE seconds.

That's a dps nerf.

Its a slight pve nerf due to extra weaving...yawn.

Yeah, because you're using other skills in the time that one is sitting there waiting to tick...

Better to use another skill in that slot instead like a dot and weave, rather than waste a slot to a nerfed skill that has nerfed dps.

Digiman

I didn't think they could do it but they managed to break a class. My hat off to Wrobel and crew. You did something I didn't think your be too foolish to do.

Pet changes are nice, but won't use them since they require being on every bar.

So long sorcerer class at least the pain is over.

The_Undefined

Revert changes to velocious curse and overload. Keep the ice tanking changes.

Revert changes to ultimate for overload - this was completely uncessary.

lucky_Sage

why in the world would you nerf Velocious Curse if it stays same you killed magsorc pvp
pets still don't scale of cp like they should

riVALry9

Perhaps if ZOS could explain what their line of reasoning is, there would not be so much outrage. I does not seem reasonable to think they intended this to be a "buff". From a player's perspective, it seems obvious that they are trying to slow down Sorc DPS. Lessen the burst. Okay...but the question we are asking is "why?" What is a Sorc without timed burst? Do they want us to transition into a more sustain-focused class? If that is the case, then a complete overhaul of the Sorcerer skill trees is needed. What we have to work with is not conducive to that type of playstyle...it only just barely serves to give us any DPS at all without relying on the destro staff line....and now it seems we will have even less...I don't like being pigeon holed into one type of play style. Please revert these changes.

Biro123

The only possible reasoning I can come up with is to kill DW sorc builds. If sorcs are forced into staff-only builds, it makes it a LOT easier for Zos to balance around the much more limited gear combinations available.

Basically, they don't want sorcs to be able to go 5/5/2 outside of the few specific 5-piece bonuses that let them (ie Lich/Spriggarns/BSW etc.)

Builds are gonna be VERY samey and VERY vanilla.. I liked my DW sorc build.. I thought it was unique, effective while not OP and suited my playstyle. Took quite a bit of thought to get right and still had a lot of room for improvement in terms of grind for it.. Now I guess I gotta run the same as everyone else. Like I say - makes it easy for ZoS to balance it.

But PLEASE ZoS. If I'm forced to use crushing shock - do something with the awful graphic and sounds effects of the skill. Especially sound...

rustic_potato

So magsorcs are out dpsing stam dks on single targets and people still complain on these forums that they got a nerf.. I wonder how many of these players actually tested on the PTS.

Athrys5

Velocious nerfed: sorc rotation broken.
Don't nerf velocious curse it's just essential, doing so you are breaking sorc rotation and we won't be able to put enough pressure because it explode after 6 seconds (the first) and one after 12 seconds,instead of 4 velocious curse every 14 seconds. This is a huge DPS nerf for sorc also tbh haunting curse is completely useless, not even worth slotting.