Simple answer for those wanting only higher CP players in dungeons or trials!!!

Woeler · December 2016

Are you ok mate?

AuldWolf · December 2016

@GreenhaloX

As much as I appreciate your post (and I really do), there's a problem with your scenario. These people would need to work together in a group, they can't. It's why some big businesses tear themselves apart when a sociopath ends up in management, which is why they don't really stay there too long and the damage they can do is catastrophic. Every one of them would be vying for power and guild leader, they'd be politicking and trying to manipulate each other. And all they'd have would be one another instead of the easily manipulated, gullible, naive people they usually prey on.

How well do you think that's going to work? A bunch of sociopathic control freaks in the same guild? Ha. Every guild like that would break down within a week, because sociopaths don't really work well with other sociopaths. They tend to work well with the aforementioned gullible, weak-willed people who bend over and give them what they want. And since those people aren't being forced into guilds any more (like they were in WoW), they don't really have anyone to boss around.

This is why I'm against forced anything in an MMORPG because it invites sociopaths. It encourages people who score highly on the dark tetrad -- with wonderful qualities such as narcissism, Machiavellianism, and self-obsession -- into your game. They'll then try and gather little armies around them so that they can engage in egocentric tribal warfare with other sociopaths. That's what's fun for them. Cooperating isn't something they really do well, since they're sharks. They have this killer instinct that makes them want to crush anyone who doesn't obey them. Essentially, Molag Bal is a sociopath parody, but one that's actually successful rather than a regular failure.

Can you imagine these people all in the same guild? No. Really. Picture it. Just... Just take a moment and actually picture all of these noxious, awful examples of humanity in the same guild. It wouldn't last an hour. And that's why they try to manipulate people who join trials. They try to force people using that, by using the game's mechanics to force people. I mean, people want to finish trials, right? They want the achievements and the loot. So the sociopaths use that with PuGs because they have no other means in this game to manipulate people. This is why some of them have been clamouring for things like world PvP or WoW-like raids. No, really, just look around the general forums and you'll find plenty of examples of this, everywhere.

The only way to deal with these people is to take their tools away.

Take away their ability to learn anything about a player. All of it. The stats, the loot, the level/CP, what have you. Alter the API so that no one can learn anything about any other player. Every other player is truly anonymous in all but name. Then you're setting the scene for a fun, more casual experience because you're taking the tools away that sociopaths use to manipulate people. Just strip all that stuff out.

Next, rebalance trials. Don't force anything. Allow them to be solo'd so that no one is forced into a group. Allow people to CHOOSE to group if they want it. Don't force them. Forcing them just invites sociopathic control freaks. If people want to play group content, they'll group of their own accord. They don't need to be forced. It's a crazy idea to try and force people in the first place, really, isn't it? ESO would only encourage more customers if they were to tell people they were allowed to play the game like an Elder Scrolls game. Consider how popular One Tamriel was. Why was that popular, do you think? More freedom, and less enforcing. That's why. If you let people choose more, you're taking the tools of sociopaths away.

No forced grouping doesn't mean no grouping. It just means that people group because they want to. And without the sociopaths, people would be much more willing to group. There's a reason that games like Borderlands work so well. People don't force you to group, but it's fun to group. So people just do that anyway. Why couldn't it be that way in ESO?

So, really, it's the developer's fault we have so many sociopaths in ESO. It's their problem to fix.

tplink3r1 · December 2016

If I start a group, then it's my rules, very simple. I'll put batman in it if i want to.

Karius_Imalthar · December 2016

All this complaining about CP requirements is because some people had a bad experience. It wasn't because your CP wasn't a desired level, it's that the individual you were dealing with was a d*uche canoe about it. I'd be pretty p*ssed too and i've had some bad experiences but I just worked at getting better so I don't have people judging me.

Jaronking · December 2016

AuldWolf wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

As much as I appreciate your post (and I really do), there's a problem with your scenario. These people would need to work together in a group, they can't. It's why some big businesses tear themselves apart when a sociopath ends up in management, which is why they don't really stay there too long and the damage they can do is catastrophic. Every one of them would be vying for power and guild leader, they'd be politicking and trying to manipulate each other. And all they'd have would be one another instead of the easily manipulated, gullible, naive people they usually prey on.

How well do you think that's going to work? A bunch of sociopathic control freaks in the same guild? Ha. Every guild like that would break down within a week, because sociopaths don't really work well with other sociopaths. They tend to work well with the aforementioned gullible, weak-willed people who bend over and give them what they want. And since those people aren't being forced into guilds any more (like they were in WoW), they don't really have anyone to boss around.

This is why I'm against forced anything in an MMORPG because it invites sociopaths. It encourages people who score highly on the dark tetrad -- with wonderful qualities such as narcissism, Machiavellianism, and self-obsession -- into your game. They'll then try and gather little armies around them so that they can engage in egocentric tribal warfare with other sociopaths. That's what's fun for them. Cooperating isn't something they really do well, since they're sharks. They have this killer instinct that makes them want to crush anyone who doesn't obey them. Essentially, Molag Bal is a sociopath parody, but one that's actually successful rather than a regular failure.

Can you imagine these people all in the same guild? No. Really. Picture it. Just... Just take a moment and actually picture all of these noxious, awful examples of humanity in the same guild. It wouldn't last an hour. And that's why they try to manipulate people who join trials. They try to force people using that, by using the game's mechanics to force people. I mean, people want to finish trials, right? They want the achievements and the loot. So the sociopaths use that with PuGs because they have no other means in this game to manipulate people. This is why some of them have been clamouring for things like world PvP or WoW-like raids. No, really, just look around the general forums and you'll find plenty of examples of this, everywhere.

The only way to deal with these people is to take their tools away.

Take away their ability to learn anything about a player. All of it. The stats, the loot, the level/CP, what have you. Alter the API so that no one can learn anything about any other player. Every other player is truly anonymous in all but name. Then you're setting the scene for a fun, more casual experience because you're taking the tools away that sociopaths use to manipulate people. Just strip all that stuff out.

Next, rebalance trials. Don't force anything. Allow them to be solo'd so that no one is forced into a group. Allow people to CHOOSE to group if they want it. Don't force them. Forcing them just invites sociopathic control freaks. If people want to play group content, they'll group of their own accord. They don't need to be forced. It's a crazy idea to try and force people in the first place, really, isn't it? ESO would only encourage more customers if they were to tell people they were allowed to play the game like an Elder Scrolls game. Consider how popular One Tamriel was. Why was that popular, do you think? More freedom, and less enforcing. That's why. If you let people choose more, you're taking the tools of sociopaths away.

No forced grouping doesn't mean no grouping. It just means that people group because they want to. And without the sociopaths, people would be much more willing to group. There's a reason that games like Borderlands work so well. People don't force you to group, but it's fun to group. So people just do that anyway. Why couldn't it be that way in ESO?

So, really, it's the developer's fault we have so many sociopaths in ESO. It's their problem to fix.

So you want to play a single player game?That's what your saying your taking away the social aspect of a MMO away and making it all solo content.

Stopnaggin · December 2016

Jaronking wrote: »

nahh B get your CP up and then run hard mode Dungeons.Also if someone form a trial group from zone it his group his rules so don't get upset when he makes rules for his group.

Ah now we go from a to b, difference between starting your own group and using the group finder. Again just because you see a low number it's not a very good indicator of skill.

biovitalb16_ESO · December 2016

Looking for more for Vet MoL, can be a fresh level 1 scaled up.

See how far that gets you.

alexkdd99 · December 2016

sarahb16_ESO wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Or you could stop trying to run Elden Hollow II at level 16?

Lbr many might just not realize what they're signing up for. The game doesn't exactly tell you 'Hey, this is vet content and on lvl16 you should be doing X or Z instead!'. So once you did FGI (which probably was very easy) doing the thing labled FGII sounds pretty logical, no?

Labeling dungeons clearly and appropriately might go a long way here... and tbh I don't get why ZoS doesn't do that.

Or atleast label the dlc dungeons as harder than the rest. I seem to get more significantly lower level players in dlc dungeons than any other dungeons.

So aggravating to get 3 under 20 players in dlc dungeons.

Riejael · December 2016

Every dungeon on normal is PUGable. There's no need for a CP requirement. If anything, they should ban CP players from normal dungeons because its the over 50 players that cause most of the problems because they think they can ignore mechanics.

How do you explain a CP600 standing in the water on the watcher fight in Imperial Prison? Or not killing adds as they come out? Standing in front of the 2nd boss in Mazzutun when he does his frontal?

A level 16 will make those mistakes ONCE. And maybe not even then if they know the fight or were told about the mechanics before they go in.

No the people who want requirements are INCAPABLE of doing these dungeons on their own. They want to set up conditions so they can be carried. Every dungeon on normal is totally doable and EASY to do on normal.

This goes for the DLC dungeons too. When I came back a month ago, there were alot of DLC dungeons that popped up in the random queue that I had never done before. I did them, I didn't even bother to review them on a website first. I asked groups for the lowdown they gave me the gist and I did them just fine.

If I can do that, anyone can.

I've also been leveling my new templar lately. Even at 15, the DLC dungeons were easy. I don't see the problem. If you PUG you get PUGs. If you don't like the random smattering of players, don't PUG. Do me a favor and don't PUG. Makes it so I have less of a chance of having to carry someone.

Skcarkden · December 2016

susmitds wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

If I start a group, then it's my rules, mate, even if I recruit from zone and guilds.

Then go pre-form your damn group and stop abusing group finder. Why should others be punished because of lazy jackasses on a power trip?

Most certainly a L2Read issue. No wonder people get kicked.

Actually more like you have a L2BFunny issue.

You join a topic where the issue is people kicking from random groups and make a dumb comment about how its your rules in the group. I'm not going to waste time second guessing whether you're there to have a terrible attempt at a 'joke' or if you're one of the many people who seem to think being the 'leader' in a random group means you own started/own it.

If you were intending the distinction between the actual topic about random grouping and making your irrelevant quip that you can do whatever you want in groups you make then forgive because i only have two options. Either you didn't understand the topic is about group finder CP based kicks (so telling us you can do whatever you want in your own groups is pointless) or assume you're one of those who don't realise you can't really own a randomised group but talk as if being crowned leader means you made it (there actually are some people who think like that)

Of the two choices, I gave you too much credit it seems as the former is the worst of the two to have done.

In your own words, No wonder people get kicked.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

heng14rwb17_ESO wrote: »

I sense much hate and frustration from this post.

Oh no, none at all. My apology, guys. I meant to make this post amusing. It doesn't really matter how many rants being posted on this forums or zone text chats, there will always two sides of the story on the argument of kicking players out or what CP minimum should be for dungeons and trials. No matter what, players will always be kicked out, others will always be leaving, and there will always be some dude in a power trip bashing others in his group for whatever he doesn't like. All the while, gameplay still goes on and other random groups continuously completing dungeons and trials.

GreenhaloX · December 2016

Riejael wrote: »

Every dungeon on normal is PUGable. There's no need for a CP requirement.

Some truth to this, but not every normal dungeon is soloable (good word, huh.) The ones you can't solo are those that needs another to interrupt. Like the boss in FG2 that has her two minions traps you to the ground, that Delano (I think that's how you spell it) dude in RoM that has his minions trap you, or that harvester boss in WS 2 that traps you in air suspension, for example.

Elara_Northwind · December 2016

I quite enjoy grouping through group finder for dungeons somethimes, the vet dungeons have all become so easy after doing them over and over with friends that it can be really nice to find a challenge in them again from time to time.

I don't understand why anyone would join group finder and just expect to be placed with 3 highly experienced players (not that I think you need that for most dungeons anyway) If you are going to be picky about who you group with, then don't let the game find a group for you and ruin everyone elses fun by being an arse, form your own group in zone or guild chats

GreenhaloX · December 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would join group finder and just expect to be placed with 3 highly experienced players (not that I think you need that for most dungeons anyway) If you are going to be picky about who you group with, then don't let the game find a group for you and ruin everyone elses fun by being an arse, form your own group in zone or guild chats

Oh.. yes, this.

Pallio · December 2016

When you want to grind a place for gear, can't get 3 friends to help, you pug and take what you get.

Qbiken · December 2016

The one who creates the group set the rules for who he/she wants in the group. It´s reallty that simple. If you don´t qualify for that group don´t insist on joining. It has nothing to do with "elitism" or something like that, just common sense. If someone only wants experienced CP 561+ players then deal with it.

Pallio · December 2016

And always remember whoever posts in zone to put a group together with 561+cp, experienced, know the fights and role with 25k+ minimum on dps....etc... does not have 3 friends to run with, or they would not be asking in zone.

Stopnaggin · December 2016

Qbiken wrote: »

The one who creates the group set the rules for who he/she wants in the group. It´s reallty that simple. If you don´t qualify for that group don´t insist on joining. It has nothing to do with "elitism" or something like that, just common sense. If someone only wants experienced CP 561+ players then deal with it.

Again off topic, you are correct you create a group you set the rules, but you do not set the rules in the group finder

Pallio wrote: »

And always remember whoever posts in zone to put a group together with 561+cp, experienced, know the fights and role with 25k+ minimum on dps....etc... does not have 3 friends to run with, or they would not be asking in zone.

Might be a reason they don't have 3 friends!?

SolarCat02 · December 2016

I don't think a guild of like minded people will last for long, to be honest. Some personalities just do not pair well with like personalities for any reasonable stretch of time.

I watched the tail end of a marriage like that once. It was very messy. Both hated each other, both were seeing other people, but the marriage stayed legal another five years as they both refused to let go until they could convince the world how everything was the other's fault. Everyone remotely near them got caught in the fallout, too.

I can only imagine how much drama would be involved in a guild with more than two people.

AlwaysOnFire · December 2016

Life hack: get used to, and accept disappointment.

Sinthrax · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

Or you could stop trying to run Elden Hollow II at level 16? I actually saw a lvl 16 in Glenumbra an hour ago, attempting to form a group for EH2. He said mic's preferred.

You new people are trying to tackle content that's too hard for you. Acting like it's vMoL hard mode right out of the gate.

Maybe complete the main storyline. Level up to 160CP, explore the world.

Go anywhere, any level with anyone translated to Go straight to Craglorn at level 10 and beg 561's to power grind you to 50 in Skyreach.

*** clown shoes.

And how am I elitist? I put time into my character to play this content. I put time leveling my skill lines and respecing. Trial and error for a build that works. You haven't. You want to run in light attacking with a bow doing 127 dps.

Well, this is exactly what people have been wanting for 2 years. Go anywhere, do anything, and get rid of levels. So they did it... This is the end product. Just kick them and keep trucking.

Dubhliam · January 2017

I lead a guild.

Recruitment is not limited by levels or CPs in any way.

There are no requirements for dungeons.
There is a requirement to be CP160+ for normal trials.
There is a requirement to have veteran Maelstrom arena completed for veteran trials.

So you see...
You don't have to be max CP to play anything.
You just need to GIT GUD.

SaRuZ · January 2017

Danksta wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Or you could stop trying to run Elden Hollow II at level 16? I actually saw a lvl 16 in Glenumbra an hour ago, attempting to form a group for EH2. He said mic's preferred.

You new people are trying to tackle content that's too hard for you. Acting like it's vMoL hard mode right out of the gate.

Maybe complete the main storyline. Level up to 160CP, explore the world.

Go anywhere, any level with anyone translated to Go straight to Craglorn at level 10 and beg 561's to power grind you to 50 in Skyreach.

*** clown shoes.

And how am I elitist? I put time into my character to play this content. I put time leveling my skill lines and respecing. Trial and error for a build that works. You haven't. You want to run in light attacking with a bow doing 127 dps.

What makes you think a level 16 is a new player? For all you know he could have max CPs and is leveling his 12th character. There's no reason you need to level to CP160 to do a normal dungeon, especially an easy one like EH.

Because people with CP halfass know what they're doing. I can tell when someone is new and someone has run a dungeon many times over. If you have leveled a character to 561 and never touched dungeon content, not even for monster sets, then I will be sincerely shocked.

Also, if there are three level 16's(NO CP) and one lvl 160, the dungeon's still scale to 160 CP. it says so in the top right corner. Therefore level 16's are attempting to take on level 160 content.

This may not be an issue for people with max leveled characters but for us in the middle(200-350 range) it's difficult. When tanks do not tank, healers do not heal and all DPS use is a light attack on bow, something needs to be done.

Idc what anybody says. The group finder is broken and pairs people up at random levels. No other game does this. It's stupid and lazy on the devs end.

laksikus · January 2017

SaRuZ wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Or you could stop trying to run Elden Hollow II at level 16? I actually saw a lvl 16 in Glenumbra an hour ago, attempting to form a group for EH2. He said mic's preferred.

You new people are trying to tackle content that's too hard for you. Acting like it's vMoL hard mode right out of the gate.

Maybe complete the main storyline. Level up to 160CP, explore the world.

Go anywhere, any level with anyone translated to Go straight to Craglorn at level 10 and beg 561's to power grind you to 50 in Skyreach.

*** clown shoes.

And how am I elitist? I put time into my character to play this content. I put time leveling my skill lines and respecing. Trial and error for a build that works. You haven't. You want to run in light attacking with a bow doing 127 dps.

What makes you think a level 16 is a new player? For all you know he could have max CPs and is leveling his 12th character. There's no reason you need to level to CP160 to do a normal dungeon, especially an easy one like EH.

Because people with CP halfass know what they're doing. I can tell when someone is new and someone has run a dungeon many times over. If you have leveled a character to 561 and never touched dungeon content, not even for monster sets, then I will be sincerely shocked.

Also, if there are three level 16's(NO CP) and one lvl 160, the dungeon's still scale to 160 CP. it says so in the top right corner. Therefore level 16's are attempting to take on level 160 content.

This may not be an issue for people with max leveled characters but for us in the middle(200-350 range) it's difficult. When tanks do not tank, healers do not heal and all DPS use is a light attack on bow, something needs to be done.

Idc what anybody says. The group finder is broken and pairs people up at random levels. No other game does this. It's stupid and lazy on the devs end.

Those Level 16 take on cp 160 content all time cos everything is 160 now. They will actually have better stats than you Too.

Having tanks and healers that dont do their jobs is another thing, and Not something level related.

The Level discussion is pretty funny knowing that some people did vMSA at lvl 20 and lower

KochDerDamonen · January 2017

If someone forms a group, they can set whatever criteria they please

Cerilon · January 2017

There should be some dps trial before one can join group dungeon.. I see both low cp and high cp guys spamming only snipe and some light attacks once they used up their stam -.-

RebornV3x · January 2017

This thread is bad and op u should feel bad never post here again k thanks...

EnemyOfDaState · January 2017

The problem is most of these "l33T puggers" have the social skills of a gnat. Good luck forming a guild when you don't even have the social skills to interact with some dude in a dungeon without voting to kick 50 times.

Loralai_907 · January 2017

Again. Those of you that assume high CP equals absolute knowledge of dungeons are just silly. A person could be on an alt. You could wind up with someone like me, with over 600 CP and pretty close to no dungeon experience. But, I at least refuse to run dungeons with people I do not know, so I am not holding you folks back. CP is not the end all be all of knowledge. This topic just needs to stop.

Loc2262 · January 2017

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Or atleast label the dlc dungeons as harder than the rest. I seem to get more significantly lower level players in dlc dungeons than any other dungeons.

That's because of random finder probabilities. Players from level 10 to 19 get either a tier-1 dungeon (FG, BC, DC), or a DLC dungeon. Means, a chance of roughly 50% (4 out of 10 or 2/5th to be exact) to get a DLC dungeon.

At level 20, the tier-2 become available, decreasing the DLC chance to 25% (4 out of 16). At level 30, chance is 18% (4 out of 22), and so on.

So yeah, someone had the glorious idea to give players an increasing chance to get a hard DLC dungeon the lower their level.