Simple answer for those wanting only higher CP players in dungeons or trials!!!

GreenhaloX

SolarCat02 wrote: »

I don't think a guild of like minded people will last for long, to be honest. Some personalities just do not pair well with like personalities for any reasonable stretch of time.

I watched the tail end of a marriage like that once. It was very messy. Both hated each other, both were seeing other people, but the marriage stayed legal another five years as they both refused to let go until they could convince the world how everything was the other's fault. Everyone remotely near them got caught in the fallout, too.

I can only imagine how much drama would be involved in a guild with more than two people.

Wolves, wild and dangerous as they are, could be lead by an alpha wolf. So if such GM would have the alpha wolf trait, his or her guild may work. Oh yes, imagine the bad blood during when bunch of egotistical folks who think they are alpha males clash. Just for amusement, an idea, possibly.

RebornV3x wrote: »

This thread is bad and op u should feel bad never post here again k thanks...

Wow, nice.. of all the forum posts and replies I have read, this has to be in the top rated for constructive feedback of all time. Thank you, good Sir, for you are the most helpful of all. Thank you for making my day and the start of a good new year. You are definitely the good citizen and role model I would love to follow into war with.

laksikus wrote: »

The Level discussion is pretty funny knowing that some people did vMSA at lvl 20 and lower

I'm not against any level or have a requirement for anyone running in normal group event in my group, but for vet level events, I would say that lower level players will have a harder time. As you mentioned "vMSA", it's not really clear if you meant as for vet Maelstrom (vMA) or vet Dragonstar Arena (vDSA.) Either way.. if for vMA, I can't swallow that a level 20 would be able to do it, and for vDSA, I believe you have to be a certain level (I think 45, unless it has changed with One Tamriel's patch.)

However, for vet dungeons, I would only agree that a level 20 player can do it, but "only" if the other 3 in the group are all higher levels. Having CP is about where you place those in the slots in the constellation/champion tree. You need CP to plus up those resistance (i.e. hardy, elemental, etc..) In any vet event, shock/lightning, poison, etc., attacks from the enemies are much harder. Even those with higher CP will have issues if they don't emplace the CPs correctly to obtain better resistance. That level 20 would die lots, though, and have to be respawned lots. Similarly, I have been in some groups in vet dungeons where we had CP 15 and those in the CP 100. These level players are dying a lot in those vet dungeons and have to be regularly respawned. Heck, even those in the CP 300 and CP 400 are dying in vet dungeons, at times. It all depends on how you are distributing your CPs and yes, knowing the mechanics, i.e., to roll out/avoid "red circle" or that good blocking technique (when it works right.) It also depends if someone is or not looking for speed or no death achievement.

As for me, I could care less about the speed/no death or any other achievements. If someone is willing to fight, give and contribute all they can, then I don't care what level they are. They can be in my group for normal and vet dungeons. If someone is dying and dying, fine, whatever.. I'll respawn them. That is what soul gems are for. Plenty of times in vet dungeons, I find it a good challenge, being the lone survivor and trying to respawn everyone without getting wiped myself and having to restart that fight with the boss. Also, (no intention to start any potential catastrophic debate/argument) that is why I favor a bit more with having higher health as a dps. Because I have a higher health as dps than normal, I am usually the one left standing in many vet runs (and even certain normal runs) where all others have wiped, then I was able to bounds around avoiding damages and respawning everybody and continue on to finish.

AlwaysOnFire

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Wolves, wild and dangerous as they are, could be lead by an alpha wolf. So if such GM would have the alpha wolf trait, his or her guild may work. Oh yes, imagine the bad blood during when bunch of egotistical folks who think they are alpha males clash. Just for amusement, an idea, possibly.

Alpha wolves are a myth based on faulty social experiments by one dude in the 1960s wherein captive (not wild) wolves that were complete strangers were forced in close proximity. The most aggressive and nasty wolves dominated this artificially constructed, stressful and uncertain social stage. In the wild, most non-dysfunctional wolf social structures are family-based and mutual in hierarchy rather than strictly authoritarian.

So if we're going to extrapolate anything from wolves, we can conclude that "dungeon Alphas" are much more likely to be nasty randos that demand submission from strangers rather than natural and well-liked leaders that consistently succeed.

GreenhaloX

AlwaysOnFire wrote: »

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Wolves, wild and dangerous as they are, could be lead by an alpha wolf. So if such GM would have the alpha wolf trait, his or her guild may work. Oh yes, imagine the bad blood during when bunch of egotistical folks who think they are alpha males clash. Just for amusement, an idea, possibly.

Alpha wolves are a myth based on faulty social experiments by one dude in the 1960s wherein captive (not wild) wolves that were complete strangers were forced in close proximity. The most aggressive and nasty wolves dominated this artificially constructed, stressful and uncertain social stage. In the wild, most non-dysfunctional wolf social structures are family-based and mutual in hierarchy rather than strictly authoritarian.

So if we're going to extrapolate anything from wolves, we can conclude that "dungeon Alphas" are much more likely to be nasty randos that demand submission from strangers rather than natural and well-liked leaders that consistently succeed.

Well said, good Sir! Although alpha wolves are not really a myth. They do exist to lead a pack of wolves in the wild. At least, that is what the nature channel says..

AlwaysOnFire

GreenhaloX wrote: »

Although alpha wolves are not really a myth. They do exist to lead a pack of wolves in the wild. At least, that is what the nature channel says..

Nature channel's wrong. Here's the very guy who performed the studies in the 1960s that coined 'alpha wolf' and he's basically admitted that it was a mistake, an inaccurate model of canine social behavior, and shouldn't be used anymore. (Yeah I was surprised when I learned this, too. Really put a spin on anybody who considers themselves 'alpha.')

Though there are certainly wolves that are leaders that we might designate 'alpha' just to denote they are one. But to my knowledge, their authority is based on teaching the less experienced wolves to learn how to hunt big prey, not getting enraged when puppies don't know what to do right out of the den.

KOSxX

I've started a guild on NA Xbox 1 for those wanting to learn/do trials together in a judge-free environment. We are accepting all lvls. Msg KOSxX or LakelynRae for an invite. We are striving to be an organized, member lead guild.

Blkadr

Loc2262 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Or atleast label the dlc dungeons as harder than the rest. I seem to get more significantly lower level players in dlc dungeons than any other dungeons.

That's because of random finder probabilities. Players from level 10 to 19 get either a tier-1 dungeon (FG, BC, DC), or a DLC dungeon. Means, a chance of roughly 50% (4 out of 10 or 2/5th to be exact) to get a DLC dungeon.

At level 20, the tier-2 become available, decreasing the DLC chance to 25% (4 out of 16). At level 30, chance is 18% (4 out of 22), and so on.

So yeah, someone had the glorious idea to give players an increasing chance to get a hard DLC dungeon the lower their level.

Oh my god... this makes perfect sense now. No wonder I got hit with Mazzatun my very first random as a lvl 10. And I see so many level 15-30s in WGT. This was a lightbulb moment. They really need to unlock the DLC dungeons at a later level and give the lower levels the ones like Volenfell and Elden Hollow and the other easy ones to play in instead.

SolarCat02

The DLC dungeons are doable on lower level characters, if you are familiar with the mechanics and wearing some semblance of a set. I have done Mazzatun with two 18s and two first-time 43s, I have tanked Imperial City Prison at level 16 for three first-time CP players, and my healer has guided low levels all the way down to 10 through White Gold Tower.

BUT, in the first two examples everyone in question had CP, and in all cases I knew exactly what we needed to do and explained it to the group. This is NOT the case for newer players.

Zenimax recommends not attempting the DLC dungeons until level 20 or so? So they should be pulled out of the random dungeon finder options until that level, or until that character already has the achievement for finishing that particular dungeon.

Heck, you can still let people pick to queue for that specific dungeons you want, it's just the random dungeon queue that is really the issue. The list of acceptable random dungeons is too short at low levels, and by those numbers it's too likely to to give the DLCs as a result, punishing the new players who obtain the DLC early.

ChaosWotan

I played mostly PvP with my main toon, so when I was relatively inexperienced and had "only" 420 cp with my new alts and poor gear, I used to laugh at the high CP angerballs who are rude to newbies in PvE. Now that my gear is much better, have 547 CP, and done vWGT several times for instance, I can more easily understand the impatience of experienced high CP players.

When one has done vet dungeons and trials countless times it becomes a kind of grind, and then one just want to be done with it in a relatively easy way. Having used 20-30 minutes only to wipe 5-7 times at the last boss, with inexperienced players, is actually rather frustrating.

Experienced players are gaming to have fun after all, not to teach newbies how to play.

Vet dungeons and vet trials should have 2 modes: one for those under 400 cp and one for those above. Or make it like this for example: for each vet dungeon have a special queue in group finder for those who have already accomplished that vet dungeon.

And please introduce group finder for trials. With a queue one can only join if one has already finished a specific trial.

GreenhaloX

KOSxX wrote: »

I've started a guild on NA Xbox 1 for those wanting to learn/do trials together in a judge-free environment. We are accepting all lvls. Msg KOSxX or LakelynRae for an invite. We are striving to be an organized, member lead guild.

Nice.. good for you for having the intention of a judge-free trial group or guild. Ideally, any guild is that. Usually, the GM creates a guild with the intention of everyone being civil to each other, but it doesn't always work out that way; particularly if you are a bigger guild. Their true colors will eventually come out, and there will always be those members who are prejudice, immature and those who will judge/bash/belittle others. I hate to sound negative, but it is not like we are "real" guilds or organization, like if in real life. This is just a video game. In real life, to become part of a guild or a private organization/group, there are criteria/requirements/vetting process and even sponsorship or probationary period. In ESO (because it is just a game), anybody can join any guild. There is usually no requirement or vetting process.

So, the ideology of wanting a judge-free zone and civility is good, but with so many random people/players (in MMO) joining guilds, it doesn't always work out that way. Being in a guild in ESO is continuously fluid with members coming and going. Oh, don't get me wrong, there are lots and majority of guild members are civil to each other, but there will always be those who are not so civil. It is what it is.. it is just a video game, with so many different people with different backgrounds playing in this MMO environment. Yet, awesome that you have a guild with a positive intention.

GreenhaloX

Blkadr wrote: »

Loc2262 wrote: »

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Or atleast label the dlc dungeons as harder than the rest. I seem to get more significantly lower level players in dlc dungeons than any other dungeons.

That's because of random finder probabilities. Players from level 10 to 19 get either a tier-1 dungeon (FG, BC, DC), or a DLC dungeon. Means, a chance of roughly 50% (4 out of 10 or 2/5th to be exact) to get a DLC dungeon.

At level 20, the tier-2 become available, decreasing the DLC chance to 25% (4 out of 16). At level 30, chance is 18% (4 out of 22), and so on.

So yeah, someone had the glorious idea to give players an increasing chance to get a hard DLC dungeon the lower their level.

Oh my god... this makes perfect sense now. No wonder I got hit with Mazzatun my very first random as a lvl 10. And I see so many level 15-30s in WGT. This was a lightbulb moment. They really need to unlock the DLC dungeons at a later level and give the lower levels the ones like Volenfell and Elden Hollow and the other easy ones to play in instead.

Well, many were also complaining to ZOS that, if they purchase the DLC, they should be able to access those dungeons, even at the lower levels. Which makes sense to me, unless there is a new restriction added where you have to be a certain level in order have certain DLC's dungeons to unlock for purchase. However, such restriction will never happen, as in a profit making business in the video games industry. Oh no, they will never prevent somebody from making (real world currency) purchases.

ArnoTerranova

I tend to agree, for example limit the access to vet dungeons for people with Champion Points (CP) 100+
EDIT : a reroll level 20 with high CP point is totally fine - those players are ok. it is sad we can't the CP level at present.

But not only that, I think that it is important to give an incentive to players to go in higher dungeons,
such as a ranking of armors like 'tiers1, tiers2', etc.

For examples: current endgame may allow to make the following:
Level 0-50 (armors tiers 1 for normal dungeon levels) up to CP 100.
CP 100 armors (vet dungeon levels, instead of the current 140 or 160 which I think is weird)
CP 200 armors (vet dungeon levels-trials), with better stats than CP 100,

And, - if we get some new endgame content for that
CP 300 for new content (update 13?)
CP 400 for new content (update 14?)
etc.

Taternater

Player skill can make up for lower cp to some degree. When I joined a group that was farming FG for viper gear right when I turned cp160, they told me after a few runs that I was performing as well as a character with a cp over 300. Learning the mechanics of the fights and playing your class can make a low cp player perform better than a high cp player in bought gear who has no idea what he's doing.

Dawnblade

Multiple levels of difficulty all mixed together (original lowbie dungeons + DLC) with no regard to the difference in difficulty is a failure on the part of Zenimax - not the players that happened to buy the Gold Edition and get sent to a DLC dungeon in their very first random queue on their first day of playing the game.

Either they need to make the difficulty level consistent between dungeons, provide stronger buffs / combat scaling in the DLC / harder dungeons, separate the queue into tiers with recommendations (e.g. new players / easy queue) or have requirements (level / CP / etc) for queuing the harder content.

Same with vet level dungeons - any that have more difficulty / higher dps checks / etc should be in a separate queue, have minimum CP requirements for queuing, and / or players with lower CP should get boosted.

Anyways I find it idiotic that ZOS added a stat based alternative leveling system to the game, released and tuned content based on the assumed stats based on average player CP, then tossed all players together (brand new to CP capped) with massively different levels of stats into a shared queue.

Right now a lot of the content is under-tuned for people with max CP and over tuned for people with minimum CP- neither of which make much sense.

There are potential solutions, including having multiple versions of the content based on CP level bands (same dungeon - just different tuning based on CP), tune to max CP and boost all players under cap, cap CP at the tuning level, or put minimum CP requirements on queuing.

Of course this would require changes, and each potential solution would have its own drawbacks.

Stopnaggin

SaRuZ wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

SaRuZ wrote: »

Or you could stop trying to run Elden Hollow II at level 16? I actually saw a lvl 16 in Glenumbra an hour ago, attempting to form a group for EH2. He said mic's preferred.

You new people are trying to tackle content that's too hard for you. Acting like it's vMoL hard mode right out of the gate.

Maybe complete the main storyline. Level up to 160CP, explore the world.

Go anywhere, any level with anyone translated to Go straight to Craglorn at level 10 and beg 561's to power grind you to 50 in Skyreach.

*** clown shoes.

And how am I elitist? I put time into my character to play this content. I put time leveling my skill lines and respecing. Trial and error for a build that works. You haven't. You want to run in light attacking with a bow doing 127 dps.

What makes you think a level 16 is a new player? For all you know he could have max CPs and is leveling his 12th character. There's no reason you need to level to CP160 to do a normal dungeon, especially an easy one like EH.

Because people with CP halfass know what they're doing. I can tell when someone is new and someone has run a dungeon many times over. If you have leveled a character to 561 and never touched dungeon content, not even for monster sets, then I will be sincerely shocked.

Also, if there are three level 16's(NO CP) and one lvl 160, the dungeon's still scale to 160 CP. it says so in the top right corner. Therefore level 16's are attempting to take on level 160 content.

This may not be an issue for people with max leveled characters but for us in the middle(200-350 range) it's difficult. When tanks do not tank, healers do not heal and all DPS use is a light attack on bow, something needs to be done.

Idc what anybody says. The group finder is broken and pairs people up at random levels. No other game does this. It's stupid and lazy on the devs end.

You do know since 1t everything is 160 right. Take a look around no levels on npc enemies anymore. Battle scaling brings up the stats for lower level players. Again you can not tell from the number next to someone's name what skill they have. I have a newer lvl 16 magsorc, she has all the cp but is still low level and I can run normal dungeons all day. Probably better then mid range cp.

Now if someone doesn't know how to run their role, that's a different story. We have all had those as well, but this is what you get on group finder. But my point is you can't tell from a number on a screen, the amount of skill someone has. 561 play like crap, lvl 20 play like vets. Cp points aren't a measure of skill, it a measure of time, nothing more. Who says that 561 even has his CP distribution in order to do their role? I've had 561 tanks that flat out couldn't tank, not drawing aggro, no buff/debuffs, had a lvl 20 something tank the same dungeon with no problems.

GreenhaloX

ChaosWotan wrote: »

When one has done vet dungeons and trials countless times it becomes a kind of grind, and then one just want to be done with it in a relatively easy way. Having used 20-30 minutes only to wipe 5-7 times at the last boss, with inexperienced players, is actually rather frustrating.

Experienced players are gaming to have fun after all, not to teach newbies how to play.

Ha, yes.. probably true to certain points, but when random queuing, you are expected to be in a group with random lower level, or perhaps, newer players. Not saying there is anything wrong with wanting to get through a run faster or easier (particularly if you have done so many vet runs), but one can't expect to queue into a group with everyone being experienced, higher levels or can blast through a run in 10 minutes. I think, if people/players have been or are used to being in a sound team-players advocated group or environment in real-life, they would likely exhibit such positive traits in MMO or ESO as well. Like being in a fairly good group or team in real life, you will always have new people/members. To have such group/team to function well or efficiently, you have to have patience/tolerance and be able to work with the new member(s) and teach/explain to them the ways of things.

It is not that much different in MMO or ESO. If you want a smooth run in a group (particularly random ones), then you would need to work with and have patience with the lower level or newer players in your group. Otherwise, bickering/complaining/bashing others will always lead to butting heads and people leaving/getting kicked out which usually leads to the run taking longer or being wiped completely. This also goes to other groups which has same higher level players. I have been in a group where all were higher level CPs, or heard from other guildies, where someone would complain that the group is not beating the boss or finishing the event fast enough or that someone is lacking. It is just who that person/players is. There are either team players or will always be someone who think they are hardcore/top ESO gods; their shite don't stink and everyone else to them suck.

GawdSB

I don't have a problem with pre 160 players queuing for vet. What I have a problem with which I discovered yesterday is them queuing for vet knowing that certain role they wanna do they aren't capable of yet.

I'll give an example, yesterday Blessed Crucible was a daily. So, I queued for it and the group I was in was me CP 360, a healer CP 330, another DPS CP 220 and a tank CP 110. With this take we make it to the final boss the Lava Queen and the first his she throws at the tank he's dead. Now I'm pure dps, no shields or anything and I'm capable of take multiple of regular light attacks from the boss and the actual tank can't take one. I didn't want to do it. It after three wipes of him just dying there was a vote to kick and I said yes.

Guess what we get in the queue next? Our other dps decided to leave so we got a CP 110 DPS and a CP 120 tank. Neither me nor the healer complained or voted to kick anyone we gave them chances. The tank was able to take some hits and the dps after learning the mechanics was able to dodge the one shots. I did have to kill off the flame atronnachs providing her shield myself but that's things you have to do because you know this stuff and they're learning. We finished the final boss off and everyone cheered because it did take multiple wipes and it did take a good amount of time but when they learned how it went they were able to maximize their play.

Point is we were able to finish the dungeon with two below CP 160 players, no complaints and at the end offered a good job to them. Now when they queue in for that dungeon again in the future they'll know how it works and they'll be able to help others or breeze through it when they finally get strong enough to do so.

K4RMA

GreenhaloX wrote: »

There are no Ffking rules on what CP or level you have to be in a group, dungeons or trials. However, I get it. Some players just want to breeze through the dungeon or trial without breaking a sweat. Oh yeah, I'm sure some hardcore top player types just want to bump chests, grunt out their manly war cries and spam/pee out their buff/burst skills around to mark their territory or manhood.

or maybe players who dont have a lot of time in game each night just want to knock out a dungeon in 5-10 minutes so they can go and do other stuff, instead of wasting an hour carrying some lowbies through a dungeon that really isnt that difficult

kylewwefan

It's not about the CP level, but a great indicator or gear, skills, rotation etc. judge it by how quick stuff dies, are your resources being managed, is content completion going well. Everyone knows that legendary weapons make a significant difference. Well as using full set pieces, monster sets, trials gear etc.

If takes 3 minutes to kill first trash pulls of any dungeon, these aren't good vet players. You can tell. If the trash is that hard, how are you gonna deal with the boss?

I had a great group last nite rip through 3 Vet dungeons in 25 minutes, stopping to inventory management after every fight.

Volrion

L2P

idk

@GreenhaloX

The top players aren't the ones kicking low CP players. They can deal with a lower CP player.

It's moderate players. The ones that aren't exactly pulling the nest dps or are strong in the support roles that need to extra help That kick lower CP players.

gard

AuldWolf wrote: »

@GreenhaloX

Next, rebalance trials. Don't force anything. Allow them to be solo'd so that no one is forced into a group. Allow people to CHOOSE to group if they want it. Don't force them. Forcing them just invites sociopathic control freaks. If people want to play group content, they'll group of their own accord. They don't need to be forced. It's a crazy idea to try and force people in the first place, really, isn't it? ESO would only encourage more customers if they were to tell people they were allowed to play the game like an Elder Scrolls game. Consider how popular One Tamriel was. Why was that popular, do you think? More freedom, and less enforcing. That's why. If you let people choose more, you're taking the tools of sociopaths away.

@AuldWolf

Trials are by definition 12 man content. If someone wants a solo trials experience, then that's what veteran maelstrom arena is for. You were kinda making sense up until you suggested making trials solo-able.

darthsithis

I agree so much. Many 561's I know are not very impressive in a dungeon...mechanics, rotation knowledge, ability to adapt, and willingness to try things different ways make lower cp's more often than not, more successful partners for a daily pledge experience.

Would I bring a cp 250 to vMoL? No. Would I run wgt with them? Absolutely.

darthsithis

Srsly, when a group member votes to kick a cp370, I vote to kick that 561 right after, or just leave.

Like really? You aren't confident enough in your skills to feel like we can beat city of ash I? Doing it with this guy is faster than waiting 40 minutes for a 561 to do a dungeon most often 2-manned lol.

/rant

AlMcFly

Nobody is obligated to give anyone a chance. They have the right to group with whomever they want. Don't be pissy if you try joining a Vet Trials group at CP level 100. I've not even done Vet Trials yet and even I know that. CP level is less a concern in dungeons since most dungeon bosses melt anyway regardless of your team setup.

Gal

GreenhaloX wrote: »

There are no Ffking rules on what CP or level you have to be in a group, dungeons or trials. However, I get it. Some players just want to breeze through the dungeon or trial without breaking a sweat. Oh yeah, I'm sure some hardcore top player types just want to bump chests, grunt out their manly war cries and spam/pee out their buff/burst skills around to mark their territory or manhood. So, here's a simple answer for those. Start your own guild!!!

Make it a requirement that only those who are maxed out in CP can join your guild. This way, you will never have to queue and get into a group with other low level players that you don't like to be grouped with. This would also be good because those that do not want to be in a group with these type of players would not have to. Additionally, make it a requirement that those do not have certain class/build/armor/weapon/dps that meets your guild's requirement/specification cannot join. This would be good for both sides. Those who believe they are Elitists or don't want to play with lower level or newer players could actually have their own guild and group. Then, go wreak havoc and break records and top all leader boards.

That's cute bud