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Again can we actually balance dark deal already.
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leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »AtAfternoon wrote: »Mobs are not gonna bash you and u have healers to heal you. So explain again how is it going to affect the skill in PVE. Whenever someone says nerf it doesnt mean make the skill useless.
I don't know what there is to explain. Unless I'm wrong you want the health and stamina you get back from dark deal to be reduced and a snare added. That's a straight up nerf since you don't get as much resources back while also losing mobility. Dark deal is the only reliable way outside of heavy attacks with sword n board to regain stamina. And it's not like mag sorcs are top tier tanks anyway.
Which was how the skill worked back before Lee started playing ESO.
Then they buffed the heal and resource return, and it was still garbage. Finally they pulled the root off it. I'm honestly not sure exactly when, because the ability was so terrible I didn't even read it's patch notes back then.
I'm pretty sure they took the snare off it before they buffed it.
Maybe when it never gave anywhere near the things it did the snare did deserve to come off it but now that fact it's giving 5k hp/stam and it's such an important skill to interrupt while it's near impossible currently nows the time to bring a little thought on when to spam cast it.
Because currently it's a too much reward, with very little risk of being interrupted with no real consequence with it being interrupted.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.Edited by leepalmer95 on December 22, 2016 11:34PMPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Uh, Lee, Dark Deal gives you stamina. Dark Exchange costs stamina, and is less generally useful.0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Your can't talk about one without talking about the other. Your proposals are based on one playstyle of one spec in one gamemode, not the entire picture that is "Sorcerer" in the entire game. I use Dark Deal when tanking in PvE too, and no, the mobs don't bash, but when you have to time the cast between possible 1-shots, dodge rolls, and everything else, it had damn well better be worth the effort I put forth.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.4 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Uh, Lee, Dark Deal gives you stamina. Dark Exchange costs stamina, and is less generally useful.
I know... i realised that yet the guy i'm talking too is saying dark deal.
But why do you even need either on a magicka sorc? You can't waste stamina using using exchange and you don't need dark deal on magicka if your capable of managing your stamina.Edited by leepalmer95 on December 22, 2016 11:53PMPS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Your can't talk about one without talking about the other. Your proposals are based on one playstyle of one spec in one gamemode, not the entire picture that is "Sorcerer" in the entire game. I use Dark Deal when tanking in PvE too, and no, the mobs don't bash, but when you have to time the cast between possible 1-shots, dodge rolls, and everything else, it had damn well better be worth the effort I put forth.
And again how will my proposals affect you?
You thinking getting 4k back instead of 5k stamina isn't worth it?
Would you like me to explain how irrelevant the rest of the balances are to pve tanks?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
AtAfternoon✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »AtAfternoon wrote: »Mobs are not gonna bash you and u have healers to heal you. So explain again how is it going to affect the skill in PVE. Whenever someone says nerf it doesnt mean make the skill useless.
I don't know what there is to explain. Unless I'm wrong you want the health and stamina you get back from dark deal to be reduced and a snare added. That's a straight up nerf since you don't get as much resources back while also losing mobility. Dark deal is the only reliable way outside of heavy attacks with sword n board to regain stamina. And it's not like mag sorcs are top tier tanks anyway.
Surge will be literally all the healing you need. Any heals you need as a tank come from the healer...
A 20-25% stamina return nerf won't break the class in pve, just get more shards off a templar, it's not that difficult.
Why would the snare nerf even effect a tank? You don't need mobility while tanking you basically stand there holding block.
There may be a few fights where you need to get out of an aoe but it's not hard to know when those situations occur and to not dark deal in that time.
Heavy attacks return enough stamina as it is, tanking is so easy in this game. This nerf wouldn't affect any half decent tank.
We obviously have different tanking styles if you just stand there blocking and only move to get out of aoe as a mag sorc tank so if you can tank that way and rely on only heavy attacks to get resources back that's great for you (I'm assuming you're talking from experience) but the very few mag sorc tanks I can remember encountering have all relied heavily on dark deal when needing stamina.
And the idea to "just get more shards off a templar" is horrible since it would mean you're forced to play with a templar healer to be efficient.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AtAfternoon wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »AtAfternoon wrote: »Mobs are not gonna bash you and u have healers to heal you. So explain again how is it going to affect the skill in PVE. Whenever someone says nerf it doesnt mean make the skill useless.
I don't know what there is to explain. Unless I'm wrong you want the health and stamina you get back from dark deal to be reduced and a snare added. That's a straight up nerf since you don't get as much resources back while also losing mobility. Dark deal is the only reliable way outside of heavy attacks with sword n board to regain stamina. And it's not like mag sorcs are top tier tanks anyway.
Surge will be literally all the healing you need. Any heals you need as a tank come from the healer...
A 20-25% stamina return nerf won't break the class in pve, just get more shards off a templar, it's not that difficult.
Why would the snare nerf even effect a tank? You don't need mobility while tanking you basically stand there holding block.
There may be a few fights where you need to get out of an aoe but it's not hard to know when those situations occur and to not dark deal in that time.
Heavy attacks return enough stamina as it is, tanking is so easy in this game. This nerf wouldn't affect any half decent tank.
We obviously have different tanking styles if you just stand there blocking and only move to get out of aoe as a mag sorc tank so if you can tank that way and rely on only heavy attacks to get resources back that's great for you (I'm assuming you're talking from experience) but the very few mag sorc tanks I can remember encountering have all relied heavily on dark deal when needing stamina.
And the idea to "just get more shards off a templar" is horrible since it would mean you're forced to play with a templar healer to be efficient.
'Mag sorc tank'...
The only pve content that requires a tank is vet trials and Vet dsa
Everything else can be done with 4 dps or even solo'd.
So yes you should have a templar in your group Also again 1k less stamina per cast won't break a mag sorc tank.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Alpheu5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Your can't talk about one without talking about the other. Your proposals are based on one playstyle of one spec in one gamemode, not the entire picture that is "Sorcerer" in the entire game. I use Dark Deal when tanking in PvE too, and no, the mobs don't bash, but when you have to time the cast between possible 1-shots, dodge rolls, and everything else, it had damn well better be worth the effort I put forth.
And again how will my proposals affect you?
You thinking getting 4k back instead of 5k stamina isn't worth it?
Would you like me to explain how irrelevant the rest of the balances are to pve tanks?
That 1k can mean the difference between breaking free and staying knocked down in PvP. So no, 4k is definitely not worth it if it means I have to double cast it to get anything worthwhile back.Dalek-Rok - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Shād - Argonian Nightblade || Dalek-Shul - Argonian Templar || Dalek-Xal - Argonian Dragonknight || Mounts-the-Snout - Argonian Warden || Dalek-Xul - Argonian Necromancer || Two-Spires - Argonian Arcanist || Dalek-Nesh - Argonian Sorcerer || Dalek-Kör - Argonian DragonknightJudas Helviaryn wrote: »Don't incorporate bugs into your builds, and you won't have [an] issue.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Uh, Lee, Dark Deal gives you stamina. Dark Exchange costs stamina, and is less generally useful.
I know... i realised that yet the guy i'm talking too is saying dark deal.
But why do you even need either on a magicka sorc? You can't waste stamina using using exchange and you don't need dark deal on magicka if your capable of managing your stamina.
Yeah, I can't imagine how a Magicka Sorc would benefit from a click heal. And before you say "Clanfear," it's dead. It died while the word was coming to your mind. It was flat out oneshot by one of the boss's adds. So, now you need to cast it twice to get its heal, which is still weaker than Dark Deal or Dark Conversion's.
Yeah, can't think of a reason a sorc would want to heal themselves or move their resource pools around.2 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Your can't talk about one without talking about the other. Your proposals are based on one playstyle of one spec in one gamemode, not the entire picture that is "Sorcerer" in the entire game. I use Dark Deal when tanking in PvE too, and no, the mobs don't bash, but when you have to time the cast between possible 1-shots, dodge rolls, and everything else, it had damn well better be worth the effort I put forth.
And again how will my proposals affect you?
You thinking getting 4k back instead of 5k stamina isn't worth it?
Would you like me to explain how irrelevant the rest of the balances are to pve tanks?
That 1k can mean the difference between breaking free and staying knocked down in PvP. So no, 4k is definitely not worth it if it means I have to double cast it to get anything worthwhile back.
lol fml the 1k is such a difference. Not it isn't. We both know you'd still cast it so why lie?
Now your just being fussy. The fact is it will hardly effect you at all. You won't even notice the difference and as a tank you should never get yourself that low to the point where that 1k makes a difference.
The truth is my balance request for a skill for pvp won't effect you much in pve at all.
But because it's a request for pvp you feel the need to to keep pushing about the pve because 'all pvp'ers do is moan and get pve nerfed'.
Now it's very obvious it won't effect pve anything noticeable anyway. So if your done nitpicking can the discussion get back on track to what it was intended for? The skill's strength in pvp, if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »Did it ever dawn on you that maybe some Magicka Sorcerers use Dark Deal too? It's not exactly a forgiving skill for the next aisle down as it is, considering being bashed mid-cast means being obligated to break free and using up even more precious stamina, if you have any left by that point. For instance:
Enemy Attacks > Dodge Roll > Dark Deal > Bashed > Break Free > Rooted
Guess what? If you don't have Mist Form or Bolt Escape, you're a sitting duck. Alleged Godmode countered.
Fun Factoid: The cast is cancelled if the player falls and lands from such a height that causes them to roll or do a superhero landing before the cast is complete. It's super nifty when trying to Dark Deal on hilly or rocky terrain!
Yep - what you say is logical.
The OP simply can't really understand any logic besides what he fabricated in his own mind or what he carries on from others right now.
In fact, most of the forum PvP community these days has gone braindead unfortunateIy. Cyrodiil has been a mess for so long they've forgotten what most of the real issues are
So a magicka sorc uses dark deal to get stamina? Not sure why... but ok.
First mistake is roll dodging..
Second is not having streak...
And what your bashes you break free and can continue to spam dark deal all you want? Infact on a mag sorc you get free cc immunity and then can streak 2 times easy and then get a few risk free casts in.
I just didn't think i need to spell out obvious things?
Because, as I said before in the other thread you made, running out of stamina is a death sentence.
Roll dodging is sometimes necessary, and if you're facing a wall or any other obstacle when you get rooted, Streak becomes completely useless.
You can never be immune to bashes or interrupts unless you completely avoid their impact. I have Ball of Lightning for the sole purpose of being able to safely use my cast time abilities. The only immunity you get is to the drunken wobble from being bashed. It's why popping an immovable potion before rezzing doesn't help you against a bash or Crushing Shock.
And 2 Streaks to get away is pointless if you're going against someone spamming gap closers and knows to bash skills like Dark Deal (see: Toppling Charge, Crit Rush, Ambush, Chains, Shielded Assault).
Dark Deal is strong, but it is in no way something that can be used thoughtlessly by anybody slotting it. There are already consequences for casting it without proper preparation, especially if it's a last-resort option. Mess it up at that point and you're dead.
Well if stamina is so important why are you risking it using dark deal? Why?
Mag sorc don't need dark deal ffs. If you actually manage your stamina you don't need dark deal in pvp on a mag sorc at all.
This isn't about a mag sorc, this is about stam sorc's.
Uh, Lee, Dark Deal gives you stamina. Dark Exchange costs stamina, and is less generally useful.
I know... i realised that yet the guy i'm talking too is saying dark deal.
But why do you even need either on a magicka sorc? You can't waste stamina using using exchange and you don't need dark deal on magicka if your capable of managing your stamina.
Yeah, I can't imagine how a Magicka Sorc would benefit from a click heal. And before you say "Clanfear," it's dead. It died while the word was coming to your mind. It was flat out oneshot by one of the boss's adds. So, now you need to cast it twice to get its heal, which is still weaker than Dark Deal or Dark Conversion's.
Yeah, can't think of a reason a sorc would want to heal themselves or move their resource pools around.
Cast a heal, keep surge up. All the healing you'll ever need in pve , also hitting something with a dark magicka ability is a 8% heal of your max hp which gets buffed by cp and such.
But really surge is all you need. You get hit? Throw a ward on and continue dpsing if your pve.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Go away with your PVP nerfs.
That won't effect pve if you actually read the thread.
Also go away with your pve nerfs, i liked my regen while blocking but zos removed it because tanking was too easy in pve and that killed mag dk off for a year.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
That also was a PVP nerf thanks to the Immortal DK.
Not it wasn't dk wasn't immortal in 1.6. That was 1.5.
The regen nerf came in 1.7.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »'Mag sorc tank'...
Yeah, those are a thing. I realize it's not something you want to play, but that's never stopped other people. Just like some people choose to play Argonians. No one knows what's wrong with them, but they keep on truckin' and shedding skin all over my couch.leepalmer95 wrote: »The only pve content that requires a tank is vet trials and Vet dsa
*snorts*
While it's true that some of the absolute top tier players can solo endgame content... that's not normal. It's like assuming that every swimmer is on par with Olympic athletes.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »'Mag sorc tank'...
Yeah, those are a thing. I realize it's not something you want to play, but that's never stopped other people. Just like some people choose to play Argonians. No one knows what's wrong with them, but they keep on truckin' and shedding skin all over my couch.leepalmer95 wrote: »The only pve content that requires a tank is vet trials and Vet dsa
*snorts*
While it's true that some of the absolute top tier players can solo endgame content... that's not normal. It's like assuming that every swimmer is on par with Olympic athletes.
But you can 4 dps them even in pug groups now days.
Or even if not 4 dps, 3 dps and a healer.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Always a PVP nerf. This is a PVP thread.
Now go post in the PVP forum.
This is the general discussion thread, this is a discussion.
This thread isn't related to pve, you attempted to make your pve carebear points, you got your answers now move on?
All the pve hero's spamming threads.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.
See this? This is you stating this is a PVP thread.
Now go post in the PVP forum and stop bringing your complaints that are specifically about about PVP into the main forum....you don't even want our input anyway as you state yourself.
3 -
GreenSoup2HoT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Heres what i would do if i were ZOS:
1: Interrupting Dark Deal now costs the Sorc the magicka that was used to attempt to cast it.
2: Heavy Armour Constitution now only replenishes 1 type of resource. Scaling off w.e is highest.
3: Must be wearing 5 of a specific Armour type to use its Armour skill-line ability.
This is just a start to the changes i have in mind. I could literally right a 10,000 word essay on how to balance this game.
PS4 NA DC0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.
See this? This is you stating this is a PVP thread.
Now go post in the PVP forum and stop bringing your complaints that are specifically about about PVP into the main forum....you don't even want our input anyway as you state yourself.
And what was your input exactly? A snarky comment are you even going to address the question.
I addressed yours? It will barely effect pve. Now if you've got nothing else to say or nothing else to add as you clearly don't as don't seem to have anything to hit back with apart from 'put it in the pvp forum' then go away, acknowledge you've got nothing else to add, you point was dismissed and move on.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.
See this? This is you stating this is a PVP thread.
Now go post in the PVP forum and stop bringing your complaints that are specifically about about PVP into the main forum....you don't even want our input anyway as you state yourself.
And what was your input exactly?
My input is this should not be in the main forum, this is PVP complaint and needs to be in the PVP forum, and you can then stop being "hassled" by our "unwanted" PVE input.
0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »Heres what i would do if i were ZOS:
1: Interrupting Dark Deal now costs the Sorc the magicka that was used to attempt to cast it.
2: Heavy Armour Constitution now only replenishes 1 type of resource. Scaling off w.e is highest.
3: Must be wearing 5 of a specific Armour type to use its Armour skill-line ability.
This is just a start to the changes i have in mind. I could literally right a 10,000 word essay on how to balance this game.
I was tempted to make a huge thread myself.
But honestly the forum is filled by people who are either 1 class wonders, have no idea what their talking about or people who try to farm forum points with snarky sarcastic comments on discussion they have nothing to add too.
I don't know why people are so defensive over pve, like 99% of the game is so easy it's stupid. The power creep made it so easy the game could do with a power nerf overall. Someone has literally solo'd nearly all of the vet dungeons by himself... including vet cradle.
Grats to him, must of put a lot of though't effect and time into doing it but it shouldn't of been possible in the first place.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »if you have nothing to add to the pvp discussion move on.
See this? This is you stating this is a PVP thread.
Now go post in the PVP forum and stop bringing your complaints that are specifically about about PVP into the main forum....you don't even want our input anyway as you state yourself.
And what was your input exactly?
My input is this should not be in the main forum, this is PVP complaint and needs to be in the PVP forum, and you can then stop being "hassled" by our "unwanted" PVE input.
No your input was 'go away with your pvp nerf'
You never read the discussion, you never added anything constructive to it. You just saw the word nerf and pvp and immediately become super defensive apart a topic you never read or even have knowledge about.
People like you are one of the reason why the game is in the state it is in now. No care for any balance for the game. Just jumping into threads that will effect you. Does it even effect you? Do you even have a stam sorc?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
Lee, it's become incredibly apparent you don't understand PvE at all. On a fundamental level. You don't know what will and won't affect PvE, because you have no idea what PvE is or how it works.
You're aware that PvE exists, out there somewhere. But you've never participated in it.leepalmer95 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »leepalmer95 wrote: »'Mag sorc tank'...
Yeah, those are a thing. I realize it's not something you want to play, but that's never stopped other people. Just like some people choose to play Argonians. No one knows what's wrong with them, but they keep on truckin' and shedding skin all over my couch.leepalmer95 wrote: »The only pve content that requires a tank is vet trials and Vet dsa
*snorts*
While it's true that some of the absolute top tier players can solo endgame content... that's not normal. It's like assuming that every swimmer is on par with Olympic athletes.
But you can 4 dps them even in pug groups now days.
Or even if not 4 dps, 3 dps and a healer.
If you've got players who know what they're doing and have a solid rotation, that's true. If you have solid players who know what they're doing and have a coherant rotation, you're not going to be finding them three others as randos in the autogrouping tool.1 -
Betheny✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
People like you are one of the reason why the game is in the state it is in now.
Really?
I would say it's people like you who are responsible - constantly complaining because someone bettered you and has different skills to you so BLAM! you jump onto the forums and start drama queening up a thread, going on and on literally solo flying for what...ten pages now...? causing the devs to kneekerk a nerf that affects PVE players.
Go away into the PVP forum where you can make as much noise from crying as you like, without having to put up with the PVE voices of reason telling you the skills are fine in PVE.
3 -
ObsidianMichi✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »
But honestly the forum is filled by people who are either 1 class wonders, have no idea what their talking about or people who try to farm forum points with snarky sarcastic comments on discussion they have nothing to add too.
@starkerealm really gets under your skin, doesn't he?0
This discussion has been closed.