Dual-Wield Spell Damage Re-Work

lucky_Sage · December 2016

a spell sword skill line would be nice a one handed sword and a short staff I don't like wands

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · December 2016

Aliniel wrote: »

This is true. I always hated these things in WoW when I played it. Having daggers, swords, axes and never using them gives you spell power? What the heck?

what u talking about? u could always go stab someone in the face with the dagger as a priest

I used to do this a lot of times in arenas... to humiliate adversaries ofc when near death... and my arms war partner made the most of it...with thrown weapons

Alucardo · December 2016

It wouldn't be an issue if melee magicka builds were actually viable.. I'd rather see that be a thing.

AzuraKin · December 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

It wouldn't be an issue if melee magicka builds were actually viable.. I'd rather see that be a thing.

they are viable at least for templars and nightblades. nb: transmutation + spell power cure pvp julianos, tbs, kagrenacs or the tempest island set + spell power cure for pve (grothdarr set for helm/shoulders)

templar gets most out of class heals, and class damage skills also from dw also regeneration from restro staff gets boost when you swap to a dw bar.

Alucardo · December 2016

AzuraKin wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

It wouldn't be an issue if melee magicka builds were actually viable.. I'd rather see that be a thing.

they are viable at least for templars and nightblades. nb: transmutation + spell power cure pvp julianos, tbs, kagrenacs or the tempest island set + spell power cure for pve (grothdarr set for helm/shoulders)

templar gets most out of class heals, and class damage skills also from dw also regeneration from restro staff gets boost when you swap to a dw bar.

Melee magblades are very niche. Great for bomb builds but not much else. If you try and spam concealed weapon you're going to do very little damage and burn through your magicka pool in no time, while also leaving you defenceless. Basically you're going to have a bad time.
Can agree it's no problem for Templars. They at least get a small heal while they're attacking. Same with DKs.

SickDuck · December 2016

Aurielle wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Same here. The very idea that carrying bladed weapons can increase you SPELL damage is insufferably silly.

I think this guy would have a thing or two to say in response to that...

Sword and stick??? Report for exploit!

SickDuck · December 2016

Surely swords are better channeling lightning spells than sticks. Physics 101.

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Meh, people can argue about lore all day, but the reality is, the balance of the game is about having either magic or stamina as your base attribute if you focus on damage. Therefor, it makes no sense that stamina based weapons would be boosting magic damage more than a magicka based weapon. This is pretty obvious, not to mention that magicka players are also using the two swords for another set bonus as well. This type of cookie cutter setup is just kinda lame, and there really should be better options for destro staff to get similar benefits.

Easily_Lost · December 2016

Speaking of magicka with blades, how about the defending trait ( physical and spell resistance ). Just saying.

Artis · December 2016

Alucardo wrote: »

It wouldn't be an issue if melee magicka builds were actually viable.. I'd rather see that be a thing.

l2p issue
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3572033#Comment_3572033
destro staff is useless^

Dubhliam · December 2016

All other Dual Wield weapons (bonuses) benefit stamina users only.
Why do swords somehow have magical properties?

My suggestions:

5% damage done > 10% weapon damage
5% damage done > 2% damage done + 5% weapon damage

Knootewoot · December 2016

I want to wield spells without weapons, just from my fists. I wish instead of dual wielding 2 swords I could just put 2 dummy items in my hand like handwraps so I could cast NB spells with the bonus of dual wielding. 2 swords look silly when not used.

I don't like staves that much though.

Beardimus · December 2016

I dont get this thinking at all, to me it makes perfect sense to have the ability to use dual wield. And dual wield suits a battle mage 'image'. Sure it might not align with a Disney Wizard image, but for me it makes sense.

Anyway Why does it matter what you have in your hands to do magic...its magic. Dual wield means you lose range weopon attacks, and thus the balance is some extra aggression. And an extra set bonus, its a great concept.

Being forced to run big wands on both bars would be dull. And with the buggy bar swap I personally much prefer the obvious graphic change if it switched or not

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · December 2016

billp_ESO wrote: »

So I get more magic damage from wielding two stamina-based melee weapons than I do when wielding a magic staff?

Nice.

The reason is range vs melee, melee has more damage as you need to be up close. Range must have a little less powers. The point I always make on post like this if Staves get a melee like damage rating Bows will follow suit with both weapons being ranged. Mages cry now about bow ganker the extra damage will make this worst.

VampiricByNature · December 2016

I would like it of their was some type of cuff or wristband added to the weapon pool. Instead of having a weapon equipped it could give an appearance sort of like overload.
It sucks that when you have a duel wield bar you cannot practically light attack as a range magic user.
Plus, it would look gangster to slap people down, true mage-style.

Shardaxx · December 2016

Valethar wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

LegacyDM wrote: »

bellanca6561n wrote: »

Same here. The very idea that carrying bladed weapons can increase you SPELL damage is insufferably silly.

The idea of wielding two magical blades and being a battlecaster is silly? Guess you never played dnd as a kid or read about the legend of drizzt.

Drizzt isn't a "battlecaster" he's a warrior/ranger and has no spells aside from the innate drow ability to conjure a globe of darkness. His scimitars are for melee, not spell casting.

Actually, as a Ranger, he had more spells than that available. He also had other innate magical abilities beyond the globe of darkness.

Well if the books followed the D&D rules then he should have ranger spells, but he clearly doesn't as he never casts one and its never mentioned at all. I can't think of any other innate racial abilities besides seeing in the dark, which dwarves have too. EDIT: oh he has faerie fire, another drow racial ability, forgot that one.

billp_ESO · December 2016

Magical, enchanted swords exist in the game, and in almost all fantasy lore. You hit someone with the magic sword and extra magic damage is done, like fire, etc. Nobody is saying this is wrong. Having two magic swords means you can deal more magic damage. That is fine.

However, the problem comes in when you get extra magic damage on unrelated magic abilities, just by having two swords in your hands, whether they are magic swords or not. This does not make sense.

A magic sword does magic damage. Two magic swords can do more magic damage. Two non-magical swords will increase your magic damage done by other magic abilities.

Weird.

code65536 · December 2016

The funny thing is dual-wield isn't even that good. It's just a raw stat increase, with a lot of downsides to go along with it.

A lot of times, the loss in weave damage, versatility, and utility just isn't worth the stat increase, and it's why many builds use destro staves on both bars.

Frankly, I don't see a problem. You gain some and you lose some by going dual-wield. Sounds balanced to me.

GDOFWR420 · December 2016

Magic should get dual-wield gauntlets similiar to sorc overload, but like it was in skyrim.

Ceridwynne · December 2016

I really wish there was a way that magic users could use any of the melee weapons as stat sticks, not just dual swords. Why can't maces give armor and spell pen, daggers give weapon/spell crit, and etc.

Now I really just want these kind of things for vanity (I think I really just play fashion scrolls). I really don't like tiny characters holding 2 big swords because it just looks off. Now 2 daggers I can work with.

I just want the ability for everyone to use whatever weapon they want to build their character and still be effective.

billp_ESO · December 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

billp_ESO wrote: »

So I get more magic damage from wielding two stamina-based melee weapons than I do when wielding a magic staff?

Nice.

The reason is range vs melee, melee has more damage as you need to be up close. Range must have a little less powers. The point I always make on post like this if Staves get a melee like damage rating Bows will follow suit with both weapons being ranged. Mages cry now about bow ganker the extra damage will make this worst.

I would say that dual wield should provide faster damage, as the reward for being in melee range. You could potentially deal 2x the damage of a ranged weapon while in melee range. I'd also like to see weapon speed factored in, so dw of daggers is faster than dw of swords, but deals a bit less damage per hit.

To use a magic damage bonus to balance stamina range versus stamina melee doesn't make much sense.

Kodrac · December 2016

NERD FIGHT!!!!!

idk · December 2016

Enemy-of-Coldharbour wrote: »

The spell damage from wielding dual swords needs to be re-worked. It should be awarded if, for example, you have staffs slotted on both bars. It currently makes no sense what-so-ever for a CASTER to get spell damage from wielding two swords that NEVER get used.

@EnemyOfDaState

I agree. Take the spell damage away from DW but it obviously should not be granted to people who have staves on both bars since only one staff is active at a time.

Oh, BTW, that's not the main reason magika users weild Swords. Just a small bonus.

Strider_Roshin · December 2016

Here's the simple truth. DW outclasses every other weapon type. Not only is it superior in terms of raw damage, but also in build diversity.

Beardimus · December 2016

This thread keeps referring to spell damage. Dual wield swords dont change the spell damage stat... It's overall damage done. Unless I'm mistaken.

Ah I dunno this topic is like marmite I guess. Some like harry potter with wands some like gandalf with a sword

idk · December 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

This thread keeps referring to spell damage. Dual wield swords dont change the spell damage stat... It's overall damage done. Unless I'm mistaken.

Ah I dunno this topic is like marmite I guess. Some like harry potter with wands some like gandalf with a sword

DW does provide more spell damage that a staff. These guys have that right.

However, they seem to not understand the real reason magika users use DW.

They also seem to think that this is how to balance a game.

No on both accounts.

Beardimus · December 2016

as far as I recall your spell damage stat does not change. Your spells do more damage sure, but spell damage is a set stat and i didn't think (unless you have a set bonus etc) that your spell damage stat changes by switching staff to swords. Thus its increased overall damage / damage done (both raw and due to passive) as opposed to spell damage as a stat.

It's splitting hairs, sure, and I wouldn't be a pedant normally but it's relevant due to the dislike of the concept of weopons adjusting spell damage itself.

Lava_Croft · December 2016

Equip a staff and look at your Spell Damage.
Equip two swords and look at your Spell Damage .
This difference in Spell Damage in favor of Dual Wield comes on top of Twin blade and blunt 5% extra damage.

code65536 · December 2016

The spell/weapon damage contributed by your gear is:

Destro staves, resto staves, bows, 1H and shield, 1H single-wield: Damage tooltip (standard amount; i.e., 1335 at CP160 gold)
2H melee: Damage tooltip (2H melee weapons get a 17.7% tooltip bonus; i.e., 1571 at CP160 gold)
1H dual-wield: Damage tooltip of the main hand plus 20% damage tooltip of the off-hand

So for each of these setups, the amount of spell damage that comes from your weapon is...

A staff: 1335
A 2H melee weapon: 1571
Dual-wield: 1602 (1335 * 1.2)

This also means that the slot position for dual-wield matters, if your weapons have different damage tooltips.

2 gold standard swords: 1602 SD
1 gold sword in main-hand, 1 purple sword in off-hand: 1561 SD (-2.5% SD over 2 gold)
1 gold sword in off-hand, 1 purple sword in main-hand: 1399 SD (-12.7% SD over 2 gold)
2 gold nirn swords: 1778 SD
1 gold nirn sword in main-hand, 1 gold sharp sword in off-hand: 1749 SD (-1.6% SD over 2 gold nirn)
1 gold nirn sword in off-hand, 1 gold sharp sword in main-hand: 1631 SD (-8.3% SD over 2 gold nirn)

So if you want to be cheap when dual-wielding, you can make the off-hand sword purple and lose a mere 41 SD. But the main-hand must be gold.

Similarly, if you want to use nirnhoned, you should make only 1 sword nirnhoned and place that in your main hand. Never use 2 nirn swords, since that's only 1.6% more SD than 1 nirn sword, and that extra 1.6% SD is not worth it--you'll be better off with sharpened on your off-hand (well, you'll be better off with sharpened on both weapons, but nirn+sharp is a very close contender),

Anyway, the point is, using dual-wield grants you 267 extra spell damage, in addition to the 5% bonus to damage done from Twin Blade and Blunt. But is this worth the loss of weaving and utility? In many cases, no, it is not.

MalakithAlamahdi · December 2016

Would at least be nice if the light and heavy attacks from it scaled off of spell power. Kinda lame that stamina players hot for 3k with a heavy attacks and me just 500, but still need it to gain the same damage boost.