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Do not buy Crown Crates!!!
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Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
There you go again. You never did answer the question of why people should be expected to respect ZOS when ZOS doesn't respect them in return? Even small gestures would go a long way. ZOS doesn't publish chances, despite requests for them to. And ZOS's communication has been non-existent and there have been no attempts to justify the Crates or even to offer assurances to allay the fears that people have over the future of the game.Publius_Scipio wrote: »I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
Respect is earned, not unilaterally given. And it is also easily squandered.
Because, once again, that is YOUR OPINION that you were disrespected. Is not an opinion that I myself hold. And I don't know about you but I live in a world where there is a rather clear distinction between constructive criticism and disrespect. In more clear english or grammar I don't know how else to further convey my point.
And btw, if someone hasn't earned your respect, don't go and disrespect them. As a general tip to anyone and everyone.1 -
Kendaric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Look and read closely. I am not here to defend anyone except say that no one should disrespect ZOS. They are people like we are. That's the first thing. Second You, me, everyone else here only have OPINIONS on this topic. So unless ZOS screwed up legally then everything is fine in my book.
Unfortunately I've lost what respect I had for ZOS when they decided to add the scam crates. And they have a long way to go to earn back any respect...
8 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I've never understood why there are people who think devs are beyond reproach. Firstly ZoS isn't a person, it's a business so no babies are actually being harmed when their customers aim some criticism their way and secondly, why do some people think companies are beyond reproach?5 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable. This is getting laughable. If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
How about you respond to the more important matters? And what do you value then? If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices? Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money? There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
I don't recall a single post that I have made stating that I think I know what is best for anyone.
What do I value? The exact thing that I have stated time and time again - choice.
The company has the absolute right to take the product in ANY way they choose. It is their right and their gamble to do so.
The consumer has the right to choose to participate or not 100%
I personally have the right to participate in an open forum discussion regarding ANYTHING posted on a public forum. Who in the hell are you to imply otherwise? Just because I don't agree with your doom and gloom, doesn't make me wrongEdited by Bouldercleave on December 5, 2016 12:11AM4 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »
There you go again. You never did answer the question of why people should be expected to respect ZOS when ZOS doesn't respect them in return? Even small gestures would go a long way. ZOS doesn't publish chances, despite requests for them to. And ZOS's communication has been non-existent and there have been no attempts to justify the Crates or even to offer assurances to allay the fears that people have over the future of the game.Publius_Scipio wrote: »I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
Respect is earned, not unilaterally given. And it is also easily squandered.
Because, once again, that is YOUR OPINION that you were disrespected. Is not an opinion that I myself hold. And I don't know about you but I live in a world where there is a rather clear distinction between constructive criticism and disrespect. In more clear english or grammar I don't know how else to further convey my point.
And btw, if someone hasn't earned your respect, don't go and disrespect them. As a general tip to anyone and everyone.
Cheap f2p MMO's and mobile games used micro transaction strategies like these to become highly profitable. They are controversial because they are designed to try to keep you spending and before you know it they milked incredible amounts of money from you. You'd expect this from f2p and mobile games because they are desperate to milk every cent they can.
When a developer like ZOS implements this it does show a lack of respect for the customers. I am an American as well, and believe companies should seek to make as much money as they can. However, you can't put it before respectable business practices.6 -
Sunver✭✭✭Bought the 15 crates bundle. Got nothing but junk. Will never buy again. Plain and simple.
My money, my decision, my consequences. Period.
When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!8 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.Edited by JimT722 on December 4, 2016 10:49PM4 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.6 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your missing the point. Matt Firor was asked why implement these now in an interview . He doesn't even try to answer that question instead he avoided it and went on about other stuff. He can't even make their implementation seem positive. That should be a huge red flag to anyone.Bouldercleave wrote: »There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.
Edit: argument for full disclosure? What? I am referring to things the game director actually said.Edited by JimT722 on December 4, 2016 11:29PM4 -
Gomumon✭✭✭I personally do not think the concept of Crown Crates are a fundamentally wrong idea. However, I think that the execution of the system is poor. Magic: The Gathering, for example, has similar packs of their cards. The difference, however, is that they guarantee at least one rare in their pack, and the other cards can still be useful. Instead of 4 random (probably useless) items, a booster pack gets you 7 common cards, 3 uncommon cards and either 1 rare or a 1/8 chance at a mythic rare
I think the community of players would be a lot happier if the rewards were commensurate with the money spent.
My suggestions:- Add more rewards to each crate (for the same price). I would say a a tried and tested method would be 11.
- Fix the drop rates. First, I would consolidate Common and Fine into Common, Epic into Uncommon, Legendary into Rare, and Apex into Legendary. Then--again following a tested formula--would guarantee 7 common, 3 uncommon, and 1 rare. Add a 10% chance that one will come with a legendary instead of a rare reward.
- Create more rewards for Crown Crates. There is a pretty small pool of rewards, especially with Apex rewards. Other Apex rewards could include Crown Store items that are more expensive than the crate, such as motifs, tokens, etc. Also, creating new consumables or collectibles other than mounts, exclusive to that tier would be very motivating. For example, Class Change Tokens, Crown Enlightenment Scrolls, legend-themed polymorphs, and Auras under Appearance such as Lightning, Frost, Fire, Light, Darkness, etc. A larger and more diverse pool of rewards would be more exciting.
- Allow people to trade equivalent tiers of rewards, i.e. common for common.
- Batch each pool of rewards into editions, and continually phase out old editions for new ones. For example, next time have Flame Atronach mounts, and items relative to the DLC or season. Title them accordingly as well; 1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd... You could even start by having different sets based on the styles, lore, beasts, and so on of each province available in Tamriel. Ex. Orsinium Crown Crates, Craglorn Crown Crates, Imperial City Crown Crates, Coldharbour, etc.
- Include a free Crown Ccrate with each month of ESO Plus.
These are just some suggestions, and I'm sure not all of them are perfect or executable. Nonetheless, I firmly believe this model can work and attract collector-type and RP players.Edited by Gomumon on December 5, 2016 12:18AM1 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Your missing the point. Matt Firor was asked why implement these now in an interview . He doesn't even try to answer that question instead he avoided it and went on about other stuff. He can't even make their implementation seem positive. That should be a huge red flag to anyone.Bouldercleave wrote: »There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.
Edit: argument for full disclosure? What? I am referring to things the game director actually said.
All Matt said is that the business plan is a constantly moving and evolving thing (which as a business manager myself agree with) and that the crown crates are part of that. I don't feel that he avoided the question, he simply didn't elaborate to your liking.4 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bouldercleave wrote: »
Your missing the point. Matt Firor was asked why implement these now in an interview . He doesn't even try to answer that question instead he avoided it and went on about other stuff. He can't even make their implementation seem positive. That should be a huge red flag to anyone.Bouldercleave wrote: »There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.
Edit: argument for full disclosure? What? I am referring to things the game director actually said.
All Matt said is that the business plan is a constantly moving and evolving thing (which as a business manager myself agree with) and that the crown crates are part of that. I don't feel that he avoided the question, he simply didn't elaborate to your liking.
He talks about other changes that were made
7 words stuck on the end to somewhat tie back to the original question. It's obvious he's avoiding the question.
MMORPG: Why now add these to ESO, several years on?
MF: ESO is a living, breathing service and as such we make changes to it every quarter or so – new content, new systems, fixes, balance changes, etc. Just over a year ago we changed the game’s primary revenue model from subscription-required to subscription-optional, for example. This coming Update, we will drop character level requirements for exploring content, which is a large change to the game that we think will make the game more socially enabled and make it easier for players to find friends and group with them. We are committed to keeping the game fresh and interesting for players for the life of the game, so we will add new systems from time to time – Crown Crates is an example of this.
Read more at http://www.mmorpg.com/elder-scrolls-online/interviews/all-about-the-crown-crates-coming-in-one-tamriel-1000011112#DvfShPyqIlk8Yqs8.993 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Your missing the point. Matt Firor was asked why implement these now in an interview . He doesn't even try to answer that question instead he avoided it and went on about other stuff. He can't even make their implementation seem positive. That should be a huge red flag to anyone.Bouldercleave wrote: »There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.
Edit: argument for full disclosure? What? I am referring to things the game director actually said.
Actually, you're not. On your own admission you're referring to things he didn't say, and then interpreting that as avoidance of the issue in order to suit your particular point of view on the subject while criticising anyone who holds a different point of view.0 -
xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People should learn Engirshk before talking moreover should learn the meaning of used words...as I see "scam" used in a sense of frustration by ppl that don't understand the logic behind RNG and luck...is not a scam...no1 put u to buy and u were informed of what inside the box and what to expect...no1 went all out telling there is 100% chance to get 1M crowns and instead u got a hat or a potion...now grow up kids and go back play tetris.0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Your missing the point. Matt Firor was asked why implement these now in an interview . He doesn't even try to answer that question instead he avoided it and went on about other stuff. He can't even make their implementation seem positive. That should be a huge red flag to anyone.Bouldercleave wrote: »There are to many people defending this. The game director avoided justifying its implementation but he apparently doesn't have to. People may eventually understand how these descend a game into mediocrity where everything becomes about milking every last cent with as little effort as possible on improvements.
Going forward you can be sure of one thing. The game will be about one thing. How can I wring every last cent out of our clueless customers.
And it was something else before this? You can't possibly be that naive.
This game was created with ONE thing in mind. To capitalize on the TES brand and guess what? Make as much money as possible before people move onto the next shiny new thing.
And no, the game director doesn't have to justify a damn thing to you unless you are a shareholder. We do NOT live in a world where companies divulge openly EVERY aspect of their business plan.
It does not boil down to "defending" the developers. It boils down to your argument to have full disclosure being asinine and far overreaching.
Edit: argument for full disclosure? What? I am referring to things the game director actually said.
Actually, you're not. On your own admission you're referring to things he didn't say, and then interpreting that as avoidance of the issue in order to suit your particular point of view on the subject while criticising anyone who holds a different point of view.
When the last 7 words of a 122 word response are the only thing that remotely has to do with the question, your avoiding the question. 115 of those words were talking about other changes. Sticking the words - crown crates are an example - doesn't really answer the question.4 -
Shimmer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I personally do not think the concept of Crown Crates are a fundamentally wrong idea. However, I think that the execution of the system is poor. Magic: The Gathering, for example, has similar packs of their cards. The difference, however, is that they guarantee at least one rare in their pack, and the other cards can still be useful. Instead of 4 random (probably useless) items, a booster pack gets you 7 common cards, 3 uncommon cards and either 1 rare or a 1/8 chance at a mythic rare
I think the community of players would be a lot happier if the rewards were commensurate with the money spent.
My suggestions:- Add more rewards to each crate (for the same price). I would say a a tried and tested method would be 11.
- Fix the drop rates. First, I would consolidate Common and Fine into Common, Epic into Uncommon, Legendary into Rare, and Apex into Legendary. Then--again following a tested formula--would guarantee 7 common, 3 uncommon, and 1 rare. Add a 10% chance that one will come with a legendary instead of a rare reward.
- Create more rewards for Crown Crates. There is a pretty small pool of rewards, especially with Apex rewards. Other Apex rewards could include Crown Store items that are more expensive than the crate, such as motifs, tokens, etc. Also, creating new consumables or collectibles other than mounts, exclusive to that tier would be very motivating. For example, Class Change Tokens, Crown Enlightenment Scrolls, legend-themed polymorphs, and Auras under Appearance such as Lightning, Frost, Fire, Light, Darkness, etc. A larger and more diverse pool of rewards would be more exciting.
- Allow people to trade equivalent tiers of rewards, i.e. common for common.
- Batch each pool of rewards into editions, and continually phase out old editions for new ones. For example, next time have Flame Atronach mounts, and items relative to the DLC or season. Title them accordingly as well; 1st edition, 2nd edition, 3rd... You could even start by having different sets based on the styles, lore, beasts, and so on of each province available in Tamriel. Ex. Orsinium Crown Crates, Craglorn Crown Crates, Imperial City Crown Crates, Coldharbour, etc.
- Include a free Crown Ccrate with each month of ESO Plus.
These are just some suggestions, and I'm sure not all of them are perfect or executable. Nonetheless, I firmly believe this model can work and attract collector-type and RP players.
Trading what you get would in fact make the crates PTW and ruin the economy.
Guys, they are in the game. Why are we still arguing about this?Edited by Shimmer on December 5, 2016 1:08AM1 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭This article sums up why many hate these things quite well.
5. Lockboxes cheapen any MMO in which they appear.
People care deeply about their MMOs, sometimes to the point of silliness, but the emotion is genuine. The games we love we want to see succeed, thrive, and live for a long time. What we don't generally want is for someone with a polyester sports coat, pinkie rings, and greased-back hair stomping into our beloved playgrounds and "classing up the joint" by throwing slot machines everywhere.
Lockboxes are tacky. There, I said it. They don't add to the atmosphere or the fun; they just exist to make money and be obnoxious about doing so. They're a sign to me that a developer has sold out on standards to an extent and has little concern for the original vision of the game or the players' feelings of ownership. They take away the pretense of earning anything through skill or time and just trade it for money and randomness.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/8 -
Gorilla✭✭✭This article sums up why many hate these things quite well.
Lockboxes are tacky. There, I said it. They don't add to the atmosphere or the fun; they just exist to make money and be obnoxious about doing so. They're a sign to me that a developer has sold out on standards to an extent and has little concern for the original vision of the game or the players' feelings of ownership. They take away the pretense of earning anything through skill or time and just trade it for money and randomness.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.engadget.com/amp/2012/05/17/the-perfect-ten-the-truth-about-lockboxes/
What's tacky are glowing mounts.
I don't care if people want to effectively gamble for pixels, but let's at least make the pixels palatable.1 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable. This is getting laughable. If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
How about you respond to the more important matters? And what do you value then? If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices? Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money? There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
I don't recall a single post that I have made stating that I think I know what is best for anyone.
What do I value? The exact thing that I have stated time and time again - choice.
The company has the absolute right to take the product in ANY way they choose. It is their right and their gamble to do so.
The consumer has the right to choose to participate or not 100%
I personally have the right to participate in an open forum discussion regarding ANYTHING posted on a public forum. Who in the hell are you to imply otherwise? Just because I don't agree with your doom and gloom, doesn't make me wrong
Oh, you do. Your whole argument is that we should shut up and respect their decision because... because they can. Thank you for giving us the answer we've all been waiting for! Not only does that wipe away all our concerns of ZoS going the same P2W route other MMOs have gone but it makes so much sense now why we as costumers shouldn't oppose being ripped off.
You're not "wrong", you're an egoist that is perfectly fine to deny others what they enjoy as long as it doesn't affect you. You don't even have anything of significance to say, you're just regurgitating the same redundant stuff over and over again. "They can do what they like, you don't have to buy it". It is acknowledged but irrelevant.
We're not discussing whether this is legal or whether they can or can't do this. We point out that this business model does nothing but rip people off and that we as paying costumers aren't willing to support a game like that. In fact any person that even remotely cares about the game would not jump to the defense of such cash grab. But you seem to lack any will of your own and are satisfied as long as everyone can have their freedom even though that isn't what we are discussing in any way.
You not being involved in the process yourself spreads a similar kind of ignorance that people with uninformed opinions have. You either can't comprehend our position as costumers or cowardly support ZoS because it doesn't affect you. Your input is especially useless to ZoS since you're not willing to spend the money anyway.
@Publius_Scipio You again? I think you still have to recover from that severe case of hypocrisy before I waste any more time on that.If this was done to an aspect of the game you consider worthwhile you admit you would quit the game but as long as it's cosmetics any objection are just whiny "social justice warriors".
Unlike you that would just quit and can't even be consistent with his own logic, we do something in order to prevent it. It's hard to believe any of you even play this game.3 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Smh, it really doesn't matter, as a player I don't like seeing other players leave, ZoS as a company really doesn't give two @$!#s if you do or don't. To them, there are literally millions of other fish in the sea to catch.1 -
driosketch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
@alexkdd99Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
Here you go:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3566728#Comment_3566728Main: Drio Azul ~ DC, Redguard, Healer/Magicka Templar ~ NA-PC
●The Psijic Order●The Sidekick Order●Great House Hlaalu●Bal-Busters●2 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable. This is getting laughable. If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
How about you respond to the more important matters? And what do you value then? If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices? Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money? There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
I don't recall a single post that I have made stating that I think I know what is best for anyone.
What do I value? The exact thing that I have stated time and time again - choice.
The company has the absolute right to take the product in ANY way they choose. It is their right and their gamble to do so.
The consumer has the right to choose to participate or not 100%
I personally have the right to participate in an open forum discussion regarding ANYTHING posted on a public forum. Who in the hell are you to imply otherwise? Just because I don't agree with your doom and gloom, doesn't make me wrong
Oh, you do. Your whole argument is that we should shut up and respect their decision because... because they can. Thank you for giving us the answer we've all been waiting for! Not only does that wipe away all our concerns of ZoS going the same P2W route other MMOs have gone but it makes so much sense now why we as costumers shouldn't oppose being ripped off.
You're not "wrong", you're an egoist that is perfectly fine to deny others what they enjoy as long as it doesn't affect you. You don't even have anything of significance to say, you're just regurgitating the same redundant stuff over and over again. "They can do what they like, you don't have to buy it". It is acknowledged but irrelevant.
We're not discussing whether this is legal or whether they can or can't do this. We point out that this business model does nothing but rip people off and that we as paying costumers aren't willing to support a game like that. In fact any person that even remotely cares about the game would not jump to the defense of such cash grab. But you seem to lack any will of your own and are satisfied as long as everyone can have their freedom even though that isn't what we are discussing in any way.
You not being involved in the process yourself spreads a similar kind of ignorance that people with uninformed opinions have. You either can't comprehend our position as costumers or cowardly support ZoS because it doesn't affect you. Your input is especially useless to ZoS since you're not willing to spend the money anyway.
@Publius_Scipio You again? I think you still have to recover from that severe case of hypocrisy before I waste any more time on that.If this was done to an aspect of the game you consider worthwhile you admit you would quit the game but as long as it's cosmetics any objection are just whiny "social justice warriors".
Unlike you that would just quit and can't even be consistent with his own logic, we do something in order to prevent it. It's hard to believe any of you even play this game.
So I guess if I don't agree with you, my opinion isn't valid - got it. I'M the egoist. I'll have to remember that in the future - thank you for turning my whole life around.2 -
DrkHunter86✭✭✭Callous2208 wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »Publius_Scipio wrote: »
"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.Publius_Scipio wrote: »I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.
I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.
If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".
Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!
You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.
There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.
Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......
There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.
You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.
You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
You keep going in circles because you keep equating what ZOS should do in your mind with what is "supposed" to work for customers as you think it should. DO NOT BUY CROWN CRATES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM! It is really not more complicated than that.
What more do you want from anyone here or even ZOS? ZOS doesn't even want you buying crown crates if you don't want to, that's why it's OPTIONAL!
Yes I am American. To confirm for you there.
You avoided the question again. You don't need to tell me what I can do, I know that myself.
Again: "you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you?"
"You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this?"
I'm telling you very clearly what I want but it seems you're afraid to answer. This is just really poor argumentation...
I really wish I could explain to your face exactly what I mean. Because the answer keeps soaring over your head. I don't have any desire to get a stupid mount so I don't play with crown crates. Crown crates aren't in my way of enjoying ESO so I don't whine about it. Objectively, crown crates prevent no one from enjoying ESO, they are a completely optional. If ZOS put the game behind crown crates and it was the only way to enjoy it, I would quietly no longer play ESO. If you desire you want a mount then you must accept the system which crown crates currently work. That's my answer. No one disrespect ZOS, and no one whine like ESO was ruined by some optional side gag.
That side gag is now the main attraction, feature, source of new fun, from here on out. Please show a little respect and do not label it a side gag. Folks at ZOS are working to ensure that all resources are poured into fun boxes going forward. Don't belittle their commitment.
just a quick question, where are you getting this information from? most mmos have these RNg boxes and still come out with new content hell look at SWTOR they just dropped a new xpack. Companies put these in the game because people actualy DO like them, you may not because of the low drop "chance" but i personally do not mind them i even buy a few here and there when i have spare crown. Everyone needs to learn to grow up and accept the choices the company has made, after all we have no right to tell them what they can and can not do. Best we as customers can do is give recommendations and hope they listen, fighting among one another like spoiled children is not the way to handle it.
As a consumer and customer you have every right too tell them what to and not to do. They provide a service or product we want. Unfortunately in cases like with zos they dont care. Leading too what we need too do which is tell with our money. This is the only way businesses listen anymore. So thusly I say dont buy them. They are trash made too rip you off. If you wanna buy them go right ahead. But be warned your more than likely gonna ripped off and ultimately are only hurting the game by doing so as it tells zos there crap is worth it and acceptable.3 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »lol these guys.
Why don't you contribute something useful. Maybe an article about how these are a good thing for MMO's. I'll wait.Edited by JimT722 on December 5, 2016 5:06AM5 -
EZgoin76✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
The scam is putting this stuff in crates to begin with instead of just selling things outright in the store.
We know what they are but not what we're getting. Huge difference there. Get it?I want to change the world. I'm just to lazy to do it.4 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I only bought 4 crates at 400 crowns each. Each crate's contents value on the crown store far exceeded the 400 crowns so I can not call it a rip off or a scam as long as you don't count on getting that one thing you have your heart set on every time. I was lucky and got the mount I wanted in the 4th crate, but was not disappointed in the useful poisons, pets, tattoos, hats and mimic stones I received in the other crates. In other words I more than got my monies worth.
So as long as you don't actually want anything and just feel the need to spend crowns on who-cares-what, they're a great deal, but if you actually want something they're a total scam, got it.
That is the complete and total BS way of understanding what they are. It can't be a scam because YOU ALL KNOW EXACTLY what they are. And ZOS explained how they work. They aren't forced upon anyone. You make the decision if you are going to give it a shot. There is no scam.
The scam is putting this stuff in crates to begin with instead of just selling things outright in the store.
We know what they are but not what we're getting. Huge difference there. Get it?
Yes I get it. It's called paying for a chance to win a mystery prize. Which from the tidal wave of outrage (at least on this thread from about 5-6 of you) seems to tell me you all knew that when you decided to move your mouse around the screen and click whatever it was that you had to click to pay for a shot at a mystery prize.
And from my opinion if this case were to lets say go in front of the Honorable Judge Judy, you guys wouldn't have a case (the case being that you claim ZOS is doing people dirty) and it would be dismissed. And she would tell you to protest all you want.
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alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.
Lol how is it a rip off when you decide to purchase it. So since you think the items are a rip off it is deceit? That is not the way the world works. I am not playing a hero, I am just pointing out fallicies. I don't think any bar has been lowered either and am happy with my purchases.
When I point out exactly how they have deceived nobody your only response is you think it is a rip off. Which is fine you are entitled to your opinion but that is all it is. But your opinion does not equal fact. I stand by what I said, nobody has deceived anyone. If someone is claiming to of been deceived it is their own fault for not paying attention to what they were buying.
And as to a business selling cheap crap at an inflated price as you say. Whether the items are crap is up to the consumers to decide, which I like what is in the crown crates better than anything I have seen in crown store before. So when comparing the items in the crate to previous crown store items they are not crap. As to inflated price, where are you getting your other price for comparison to know it is inflated? This is the first time they have sold crown crates or the atro mounts inside.
As others have said, crown crates are here to stay so but them or don't. It is your CHOICE. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything, so no need to keep up this ridiculous debate.Publius_Scipio wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable.
As opposed to what you think is best and what you find acceptable?
This is getting laughable.
I agree whole heartedly.I have laughed all over these forums over the intense outrage over something ZOS put out 3 days ago.
If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
As opposed to you nitpicking with your terms and logic?
How about you respond to the more important matters?
Ok I will.
And what do you value then?
I value ZOS doing exactly what it wants to do and not caving to whatever direction the wind blows. I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices?
Anti-consumer practices per your opinion? Or anti-consumer practices as defined legally which you can clearly prove to ZOS right here in the forums?
Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money?
Well for one these are public forums for all in the ESO community to participate in freely. Also I personally ended up in this thread in particular as I saw people once again crossing the line of constructive criticism and into the realm of disrespect (towards ZOS). How did you yourself end up in this discussion?
There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
Seeing as Cyrodiil contains PvE (and quite a bit of it actually), sky shards, achievements, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE only players commenting on Cyrodiil if they so choose.
Why do people defend what the game director won't. Even he doesn't try to justify their implementation, instead he avoided the question by talking about other things they had done recently. Why? Because even they can't find a way to put the implementation of these in a positive light. Yet other people who have never bought, will buy, or experienced them in other games leap to their defense.
Lol because he doesn't have to, just like I don't have to or anyone else. Oh and I have bought these in every game I have played and eso has better drop rates than any other game I have played.
I question why people think they have the right to question anything the games director does. You don't own this game, you are entitled to no answer. And the only place people are complaining about these are on the forums (breeding ground of negativity ). Funny how I have seen absolutely nobody complain about these in game.
But them or not it is your choice, just like it is my choice and anyone else who decides to buy them or not buy them. Why do people want to interfere with other people's choices.Edited by alexkdd99 on December 5, 2016 6:12AM0
This discussion has been closed.