Bouldercleave wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Martan wrote: »

In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?

I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?

"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.

It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.

And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.

Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.

It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.

You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.

Kodrac wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Because they're a scam.

There is no scam without a deceit.

I believe the deceit in this case is not giving the odds.

Deceiving means making someone believe something is true when in fact it is not. Simply not giving any information is not a deceit.

Not giving the exact odds would only constitute a deceit if ZOS beforehand misled the buyer into believing the odds are higher than they actually are. Which, as far as i know, they did not do.

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Sharee wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

Because they're a scam.

There is no scam without a deceit.

I believe the deceit in this case is not giving the odds.

Deceiving means making someone believe something is true when in fact it is not.

Simply not giving any information is not a deceit, unless the deceiver knows the deceived already falsely believes something, and withholds information that would make the deceived know the truth.

Here's one deception, cross posted from the article thread:

I have a nitpick with the article.

Crown Crates are purchased through the Crown Store, and contain a randomized selection of useful consumables and collectibles that are valued more than the price of a single crate.

80 poisons sell for 200 Crowns. The 25 is the crate value at 62.5.
Mimic stones sell in sets that range from 44-50 Crowns per stone.
10 potions sell for 200, so the 5 in the crate value to 100 Crowns.
The basic XP scroll lasts 2 hours and sells 5 for 1000 Crowns. So the one in the crate that lasts 1 hour is worth 100 Crowns.
Meals and Drinks lasts 2 hours and sell as a pack of 10 for 400 Crowns. So the 1 hour versions in the crate are worth 20 Crowns.
Repair Kit and the Soul Gem are likewise 40 Crowns a piece.
Riding lessons value at 100 Crowns per.
Finally duplicate Superior rewards give 5 gems back, which is enough to buy 1 fine tier item in the gem store.

The most common 4 card pull will be a combination the above. At most you barely make back what you spent, at worst you don't get back the value of a single crate from a 15 pack. Example: 2x lethal Poison, 1 meal, and 1 Soul Shriven costume (non-dup) has a value of less than 379 crowns.

~~~


Also they stated they increased the odds from the PTS, but have refused to give the customers the hard numbers. Did it double or go up .1%. This could be seen as a lie of omission.

Nyx2 wrote: »

Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher?

His point was that it is none of your business. If someone wants to buy for a higher price it is his choice to make, and you should have no say in it, not even to "protect him". Free will and all that.

You think you're clever dictating to us what a free market is, but in a free market, there is also free speech to call a scam a scam. None of us need any 2bit advice on a corporations rights. We already know they pay for far more of them than the rest of us. Our written protest against what we don't like is not only limited to what they allow, but not made any easier with white knights constantly throwing pointless irrelevant details at us. These boxes are a total rip off and it seems there was no reason for the game to sink this low. ESO has been doing so well without this crap, the only excuse is such corporate greed that they risk long term sustainability for a short term cash grab. Basically a middle finger to all of us.

Btw, in most scams, the victims voluntarily get suckered. This notion that because it is a choice, it is not a rip off is really just more nonsense. What are we suppose to spend our crowns from our sub on after they stop making stuff we actually want to buy while continuing to pull items "to make room"... yea, scam.

Well I purchased 15 crates for 5K and get 3 cosumes from previus times, one short haircut, one hat, one grand Exp scroll one normal Exp scroll and many useless for me crown elixirs and training manuals, what I decon for gems, then purchase atronach memento, well most of this items summary cost for 3-4K of crowns, so gamble with Pacrooti wasnt bad on my case.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

wayfarerx wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Kodrac wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Deceiving means making someone believe something is true when in fact it is not.

Simply not giving any information is not a deceit, unless the deceiver knows the deceived already falsely believes something, and withholds information that would make the deceived know the truth.

I'll just leave this here in case you skimmed over it the first time.

wayfarerx wrote: »

de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.

I think not publishing drop rates absolutely qualifies as concealing the truth, YMMV.

I did not skim over it. That definition is wrong/incomplete.

Wow, I did not know that! You should really call up the Oxford English Dictionary and set them straight.

Someone certainly should, because using a word in the definition of the same word is a recursive nonsense. I mean, just read it. "Deceit is deceiving". Gee, wouldn't have guessed that one.
/rollseyes

(not to mention it is also wrong for the reason i listed in post #350)

Here's a better definition for you. Merriam-Webster:

Definition of deceive: to cause to accept as true or valid what is false or invalid

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

You think you're clever dictating to us what a free market is, but in a free market, there is also free speech to call a scam a scam. None of us need any 2bit advice on a corporations rights. We already know they pay for far more of them than the rest of us. Our written protest against what we don't like is not only limited to what they allow, but not made any easier with white knights constantly throwing pointless irrelevant details at us. These boxes are a total rip off and it seems there was no reason for the game to sink this low. ESO has been doing so well without this crap, the only excuse is such corporate greed that they risk long term sustainability for a short term cash grab. Basically a middle finger to all of us.

If you're so upset at ZOS's " deceitfulness" in regards to Crown Crates, why don't you just cancel your account and quit right now? And no, I don't want your stuff. Being this upset about a game is not healthy, just walk away.

Because I don't want to do that. What I want to do is play this game and also write my objections to this scam on this thread, tyvm. Why point it out? Because without the freedom to point out what's lousy, things might never get better, or even get worse!

Bryanonymous wrote: »

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

You think you're clever dictating to us what a free market is, but in a free market, there is also free speech to call a scam a scam. None of us need any 2bit advice on a corporations rights. We already know they pay for far more of them than the rest of us. Our written protest against what we don't like is not only limited to what they allow, but not made any easier with white knights constantly throwing pointless irrelevant details at us. These boxes are a total rip off and it seems there was no reason for the game to sink this low. ESO has been doing so well without this crap, the only excuse is such corporate greed that they risk long term sustainability for a short term cash grab. Basically a middle finger to all of us.

If you're so upset at ZOS's " deceitfulness" in regards to Crown Crates, why don't you just cancel your account and quit right now? And no, I don't want your stuff. Being this upset about a game is not healthy, just walk away.

Because I don't want to do that. What I want to do is play this game and also write my objections to this scam on this thread, tyvm. Why point it out? Because without the freedom to point out what's lousy, things might never get better.

Good enough reason for me, have fun