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Do not buy Crown Crates!!!
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MarkusLiberty✭✭✭✭✭To be fair, you don't go into a dealership and spend multiple times the value of the product on a chance for the product do you?
No, I dont think anyone would do that.
People will however walk into a kiosk or a comic book store to purcase trading card booster packs and lottery tickets. In fact there's a whole Elder Scrolls game build around this very concept, it's called Tes: Legends.
*Special Snowflake*0 -
Shimmer✭✭✭✭✭
✭I put this post in another thread, and I am now going to put here. There needs to be a movement on this. Crown Create is just another sink hole the devs are playing on people's emotion and even their addictions. With all the things that need to be fixed and addressed in this game, they come out with this thing suck even more money out of us. I dont think so.
We need to continue this protest of Crown Crates. Once The Big Z closes this thread, we need to start a new one. Continue this protest until they retool or remove it from the game.
opened $100+ worth of crates and basically got crap. No mount, 1 emote, tons of potion and drink and a crap ton of duplicates. Watch and see!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLxTxh6l8eI
I opened 8 boxes and got two mounts... A guar and a apex mount... "Watch and see" (8:00 is when I start opening them)
https://youtu.be/lJH_rNfxrU0 1 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭MarkusLiberty wrote: »To be fair, you don't go into a dealership and spend multiple times the value of the product on a chance for the product do you?
No, I dont think anyone would do that.
People will however walk into a kiosk or a comic book store to purcase trading card booster packs and lottery tickets. In fact there's a whole Elder Scrolls game build around this very concept, it's called Tes: Legends.
Yet they didn't start doing this 2.5 years after releasing the trading cards. They don't stuff the decks with items many believed was going to be available for direct purchase.
If these were implemented at release I would not complain. If they handled what was in them better I would not complain. ZOS did a horrible job with these.5 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭The dealership comparison is lacking much detail. Sure we don't go to the dealership and protest, however if a particular model car seemed to be overpriced, you better believe people would be saying it in reviews online. This forum is not a dealership. The dealership is on their store page. This is the place for feedback, so that comparison means nothing.Edited by Bryanonymous on December 4, 2016 6:33PM1 -
ItsGlaive✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.Allow cross-platform transfers and merges10 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭
@Fodorespent 10k crowns (30 crates)
didn't get anything I wanted
And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)
I will never buy any more
Just because YOU had a bad experience doesn't mean that you need to preach your bad luck to everyone, it's bad luck that's all. Don't go complaining about a gamble that didn't pay off, you bought into crates knowing full well that you were not garunteed an "amazing" item, whatever you perceive "amazing to be".
I got storm guar, storm camel and grand scroll and about 100 gems from 15crates. Now, I'm not trying to force positive experiences on people who will think they will get my luck, but I'm simply shedding some light on what (imo) is getting far more hate that it deserves. I probably will never get as lucky as I did with my crates... But I will still buy crates in the future in hope of getting some cool stuff whilst knowing full well that I may not even get what I want... And when that happens I won't come on the forums and tell people not to buy crown crates.
Dude you just came in here preaching your good luck to people, maybe you should take your own advice. People are just shedding some light on a system that is getting more support than it deserves. :-p There is no such thing as an ethical gambling model, period. The only ethical product delivery method is direct purchase.
I think you read it wrong... Sorry if my English isn't great. I will out bluntly what I said. I meant that he shouldn't come in here preaching his bad luck and TELLING PEOPLE NOT TO BUY CRATES. Did I preach my luck? Hell yeah. Did I tell everyone to buy them like the author of this post told people not to? No. That was the point, he can preach all he likes, but is not ok to tell people not to buy them. Let people do what they want with their crowns, but don't complain when you didn't get what you wanted from the luck of the draw when you Knew that you had a very small chance of getting it.
Hopefully that made better sense
They're warning people of the scam. Nobody thinks they can realistically order someone over the internet, that's just how people express themselves. People also don't come here because they had "bad luck" but because they know how faulty this system is to begin with. Even if you like the idea of RNG boxes, ZoS handled them in one of the worst ways possible. Making it possible to get nothing but worthless consumables again and again with barely any return of value through gems. But most just don't want to support these dirty business models of exploiting people and have all future crown store content locked behind scam crates as well.
Honestly though, it's not a scam... You are buying into something where there is a high chance of not getting the storm mounts. People decide it's a scam when they didn't get what they wanted, even though they were the ones who bought the crates knowing they have a large chance of not getting it. Say what you like, but I feel like I'm diverging from my original point.
Your original point was just that OP tries to order people to not buy crates which isn't really the case. What more is there to say?
When you allure people to pay money for nothing then yes, that is scam. Honestly I don't care to argue about the correct usage of the word "scam" because it changes nothing about how shady these business models are. We don't care about ZoS freedom to make stupid decisions, we care about the game. We all invested time and money into it and want to continue supporting it. But that requires them to treat costumers respectful. With direct purchases and not a bunch of nothing and maybes.
What am I supposed to spend my crowns on when the only thing of interest is in crates? Cosmetics aren't essential but they're a big part of these games so if ZoS is going to continuously taunt me with content I can't acquire anyways then I'm just going to find another game that actually offers me something for my support. Until it comes to that and they derail into even more cash grabs I will protest whichever way I like just like I will inform people of how useless the crate content is.I put this post in another thread, and I am now going to put here. There needs to be a movement on this. Crown Create is just another sink hole the devs are playing on people's emotion and even their addictions. With all the things that need to be fixed and addressed in this game, they come out with this thing suck even more money out of us. I dont think so.
We need to continue this protest of Crown Crates. Once The Big Z closes this thread, we need to start a new one. Continue this protest until they retool or remove it from the game.
opened $100+ worth of crates and basically got crap. No mount, 1 emote, tons of potion and drink and a crap ton of duplicates. Watch and see!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLxTxh6l8eI
I opened 8 boxes and got two mounts... A guar and a apex mount... "Watch and see" (8:00 is when I start opening them)
You realize your lucky crates do nothing as a reply to a video showing 100+ $ spent on crates and resulting in nothing, right? That still happened and it's shocking how people still jump to ZoS defense. Nobody is saying you can't get lucky but you have to view these business models from their worst possible outcome. Which isn't a sustainable way to purchase something for most and just beyond greedy on ZoS part.8 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
but you still have the choice to purchase the crate or not.0 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
but you still have the choice to purchase the crate or not.
Wow that's brilliant. That same line repeatedly used. We know they are optional. They are still putting things in the crates we have been waiting to buy since Dark brotherhood. It's still a horrible strategy used by countless f2p games. When a company makes such a decision how can one defend them.Edited by JimT722 on December 4, 2016 7:50PM9 -
alexkdd99✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.Deceiving means making someone believe something is true when in fact it is not.
Simply not giving any information is not a deceit, unless the deceiver knows the deceived already falsely believes something, and withholds information that would make the deceived know the truth.
I'll just leave this here in case you skimmed over it the first time.de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
I think not publishing drop rates absolutely qualifies as concealing the truth, YMMV.
I did not skim over it. That definition is wrong/incomplete.
Wow, I did not know that! You should really call up the Oxford English Dictionary and set them straight.
Someone certainly should, because using a word in the definition of the same word is a recursive nonsense. I mean, just read it. "Deceit is deceiving". Gee, wouldn't have guessed that one.
/rollseyes
(not to mention it is also wrong for the reason i listed in post #350)
Mmmmkay... your reasoning in #350 is pretty thin. Of course failing to shout every detail of your life at every stranger you pass is not deceitful. Entering into an exchange of money for services when the vendor deliberately conceals the details of the transaction however, well that seems to fit the definition pretty well.
They did not conceal any detail of the transaction. There is a set price that the consumer can either decide to make or not make.Edited by alexkdd99 on December 4, 2016 8:11PM2 -
Aliniel✭✭✭✭✭I am still very mad like everyone who had bad luck. But I was thinking a bit and I think I see the solution we need.
So, we can convert so much hated consumables to gems. And duplicates as well. But we are only getting a small portion of their value as gems when the items we want cost as much as 400 gems. These rates needs to increase. Simple as that. ZOS, you cannot argue that spending 20 000 crowns to get wanted item (with small chance of getting super item along the way) is the right way. You simply cannot. I refuse to believe anyone can think it is just and right way to be. Some people wasted many crates and got nothing. Because randomness is just that... randomness. Another solution might to to increase the drop chance with every opened crate. After 10th, 15th, 20th crate we could get a guaranteed drop.
PLEASE, increase the rates of gems transform, lower the costs or make a guaranteed drop at some point. We should buy those items for around same or slightly higher value than the rest of Crown Store items. I think 5000 crowns (or slightly more) should get us the item we want (atronach mount).1 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.Edited by Bryanonymous on December 4, 2016 8:19PM8 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am still very mad like everyone who had bad luck. But I was thinking a bit and I think I see the solution we need.
So, we can convert so much hated consumables to gems. And duplicates as well. But we are only getting a small portion of their value as gems when the items we want cost as much as 400 gems. These rates needs to increase. Simple as that. ZOS, you cannot argue that spending 20 000 crowns to get wanted item (with small chance of getting super item along the way) is the right way. You simply cannot. I refuse to believe anyone can think it is just and right way to be. Some people wasted many crates and got nothing. Because randomness is just that... randomness. Another solution might to to increase the drop chance with every opened crate. After 10th, 15th, 20th crate we could get a guaranteed drop.
PLEASE, increase the rates of gems transform, lower the costs or make a guaranteed drop at some point. We should buy those items for around same or slightly higher value than the rest of Crown Store items. I think 5000 crowns (or slightly more) should get us the item we want (atronach mount).
Or they could sell them in the store for around 5000 crowns. Why don't they? Because on average it will cost around 20,000. It's a rip off by design. I want a specific hair style and body marking in the crates. That's all. I was so hyped up for these two items when on pts in July. If I wanted them it would cost 15,000 on average. Why would anyone support this?5 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.Edited by Bouldercleave on December 4, 2016 8:19PM3 -
Playnice✭✭✭I bought the 15 pack twice and loved all the stuff that I got from themPlaying ESO since Feb 2015 / TES fan since 2002
Main alliance: Ebonheart Pact2 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.2 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.
Yet there are many on here who don't think 5000cr mounts/motifs fall into this category. Almost every single item on the CS is crap and sold at an inflated price. I got the new tomb raider game on PSN the other day for less than past mounts have went for. There are some people spitting their tea out at the crown crates, then in the same breath saying they'd have happily paid 5000cr for one of the Apex mounts. Whether they got their crowns on sale is neither here nor there because the true cost to many would be how much 5000cr retailed for. A 5000cr mount, motif etc is maybe not as crass as a crown crate, but it's still crass if we're gonna get all moralistic over it.
Edited by Prof_Bawbag on December 4, 2016 10:06PM2 -
Bouldercleave✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.Deceiving means making someone believe something is true when in fact it is not.
Simply not giving any information is not a deceit, unless the deceiver knows the deceived already falsely believes something, and withholds information that would make the deceived know the truth.
I'll just leave this here in case you skimmed over it the first time.de·ceit
dəˈsēt/
noun
the action or practice of deceiving someone by concealing or misrepresenting the truth.
I think not publishing drop rates absolutely qualifies as concealing the truth, YMMV.
I did not skim over it. That definition is wrong/incomplete.
Wow, I did not know that! You should really call up the Oxford English Dictionary and set them straight.
Someone certainly should, because using a word in the definition of the same word is a recursive nonsense. I mean, just read it. "Deceit is deceiving". Gee, wouldn't have guessed that one.
/rollseyes
(not to mention it is also wrong for the reason i listed in post #350)
Mmmmkay... your reasoning in #350 is pretty thin. Of course failing to shout every detail of your life at every stranger you pass is not deceitful. Entering into an exchange of money for services when the vendor deliberately conceals the details of the transaction however, well that seems to fit the definition pretty well.
They did not conceal any detail of the transaction. There is a set price that the consumer can either decide to make or not make.
Please link to any official source/announcement/statement/reddit post/twitter that tells the consumers what the odds/drop rates are. Posted/linked/announced, not concealed. Available nowhere despite many requests asking for it, yeah, pretty much "concealed".4 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm done. These are such a blatant ripoff that even the game director Matt Firor avoided the question of why they were being implemented in an interview. In that question he talks about everything else but crown crates to avoid answering the question. That should tell you everything you need to know about these. If people want to defend the implementation of milking schemes made popular in cheap f2p MMO's/mobile games... I don't get it but fine. After this game becomes like every other cheap cash grabs, maybe the reality of what this leads to will dawn on you.Edited by JimT722 on December 4, 2016 9:14PM10 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.
Yet there are many on here who don't think 5000cr mounts/motifs fall into this category. Almost every single item on the CS is crap and sold at an inflated price. I got the new tomb raider game on PSN the other day for less than past mounts have went for. There are some people spitting their tea out at the crown crates, then in the same breath saying they'd have happily paid 5000cr for one of the Apex mounts. Whether they got their crowns on sale is neither here nor there because the true cost to many would be how much 5000cr retailed for. A 5000cr mount, motif etc maybe not be as crass as a crown crate, but it's still crass if we're gonna get all moralistic over it.
I think there is a difference. Inflated, over priced or not, if they post an item for a set price you have a very clear picture of what you will be paying for what you want. A clown crate costs 400 crowns, much cheaper than a 5000cr mount. Sort of. You have all the information you need to decide if you want to buy that mount/item for the price they posted. You buy a clown crate with the objective of getting a specific mount/item, that 400cr might be enough if Rngesus blesses you. Or that special, specific mount might cost 100 times that 400cr to get what you want.
Honestly, I would be okay with them posting 5000cr mounts or whatever. People could decide what it was worth to them, and buy or not buy accordingly. If no one was willing to buy it at that price, they might change it. 400cr for a clown crate is "reassuringly low priced" enough that people won't freak out over buying just one or two. And then talking themselves into just a few more when they don't get what they want. Better the higher set price from the outset.
5 -
Prof_Bawbag✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.
Yet there are many on here who don't think 5000cr mounts/motifs fall into this category. Almost every single item on the CS is crap and sold at an inflated price. I got the new tomb raider game on PSN the other day for less than past mounts have went for. There are some people spitting their tea out at the crown crates, then in the same breath saying they'd have happily paid 5000cr for one of the Apex mounts. Whether they got their crowns on sale is neither here nor there because the true cost to many would be how much 5000cr retailed for. A 5000cr mount, motif etc maybe not be as crass as a crown crate, but it's still crass if we're gonna get all moralistic over it.
I think there is a difference. Inflated, over priced or not, if they post an item for a set price you have a very clear picture of what you will be paying for what you want. A clown crate costs 400 crowns, much cheaper than a 5000cr mount. Sort of. You have all the information you need to decide if you want to buy that mount/item for the price they posted. You buy a clown crate with the objective of getting a specific mount/item, that 400cr might be enough if Rngesus blesses you. Or that special, specific mount might cost 100 times that 400cr to get what you want.
Honestly, I would be okay with them posting 5000cr mounts or whatever. People could decide what it was worth to them, and buy or not buy accordingly. If no one was willing to buy it at that price, they might change it. 400cr for a clown crate is "reassuringly low priced" enough that people won't freak out over buying just one or two. And then talking themselves into just a few more when they don't get what they want. Better the higher set price from the outset.
I agree, there is a difference and that's why I stated the 5000cr mount/motif were less crass than the former. I was merely disputing the usage of "You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price?" . Cheap crap and inflated prices are the very definition of everything the crown store has stood for since its inception. I get why things are priced higher when it comes to MMO's, but I don't get why one 'special' mount can cost 2500cr, the next one 3000cr and so on. The same goes for pets. The exact same pet but with a different skin can cost 200cr more than the one before it. A lot of people have no issue with that. Doesn't get questioned by many and people are shot down when they do speak out about it. Even take the new "Elder Council" Tunic and Sash costume, why is no one questioning why they've suddenly upped the price of a costume by 300crs? Doesn't look any more spectacular than most of the 700cr costumes.0 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable. This is getting laughable. If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
How about you respond to the more important matters? And what do you value then? If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices? Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money? There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.2 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Prof_Bawbag wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bryanonymous wrote: »
I could give so many answers, but a scam is a scam... Calling it like I see it. Plus, I already have some examples in a previous post. In what way does playing corporate white knight help you? And please... saying the profits from these helps keep the game going is hearsay speculation at most. That is one of the most played out assumptions in this community. Guess all those subs dried out? Btw, have you seen any estimates of ZoS profits from game sales, or are you just assuming they're broke to rationalize why they need to rip people off?In what way does that affect you besides making the game better in the long run?
"ripping people off" implies misleading information or force. They have done neither one of those. The crates are working EXACTLY as they presented them and no one is forcing you to spend money on them.
It is NOT a scam, and it is not a rip off. It is simply a matter of if you see value in them vs the cost, then you buy into them.
And NO I have not partaken in the crates as I have no desire to. I personally don't see the value vs risk.
Without releasing information about the drop rates and the algorithms they are misleading people indeed. So how about you do some research and stop playing the hero. This is sleezy business and I have every right to voice my opinions.
It's a scam. A rip off. They are being deceiptful. The entire gimmick is a waste of money. And it's deteriorating the integrity of a good game by cheapening it to shallow content and shady gimmicks.
You're not going to silence me or anyone else who wants to make it very clear that this kind of business is disgusting. And the consent that the white knights are giving is suspiciously defensive as well.
Lol no misleading would be publishing inaccurate drop rates. Not supplying them is not deceit, supplying rates that are different from actual rates would be deceit. They are under no obligation to supply you with any rates.
Show me one place they said ANYTHING deceitful about crown crates. Don't tell others to do research when you are passing opinion as fact.
It says you have a chance to receive something, it does not say if you spend x amount you will get y item. If it did that would be deceit, but it does not.
Lol people must live in some fantasy land where there are zero businesses. I guess not many people know how real business works, or just block that out when thinking of eso or any game for that matter.
The items are a rip off. Deceit enough. You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price? So keep playing the hero. Pointless. As others have said, keep lowering the bar, and they'll keep delivering worse and worse gimmicks because of arrogant consent like yours.
Yet there are many on here who don't think 5000cr mounts/motifs fall into this category. Almost every single item on the CS is crap and sold at an inflated price. I got the new tomb raider game on PSN the other day for less than past mounts have went for. There are some people spitting their tea out at the crown crates, then in the same breath saying they'd have happily paid 5000cr for one of the Apex mounts. Whether they got their crowns on sale is neither here nor there because the true cost to many would be how much 5000cr retailed for. A 5000cr mount, motif etc maybe not be as crass as a crown crate, but it's still crass if we're gonna get all moralistic over it.
I think there is a difference. Inflated, over priced or not, if they post an item for a set price you have a very clear picture of what you will be paying for what you want. A clown crate costs 400 crowns, much cheaper than a 5000cr mount. Sort of. You have all the information you need to decide if you want to buy that mount/item for the price they posted. You buy a clown crate with the objective of getting a specific mount/item, that 400cr might be enough if Rngesus blesses you. Or that special, specific mount might cost 100 times that 400cr to get what you want.
Honestly, I would be okay with them posting 5000cr mounts or whatever. People could decide what it was worth to them, and buy or not buy accordingly. If no one was willing to buy it at that price, they might change it. 400cr for a clown crate is "reassuringly low priced" enough that people won't freak out over buying just one or two. And then talking themselves into just a few more when they don't get what they want. Better the higher set price from the outset.
I agree, there is a difference and that's why I stated the 5000cr mount/motif were less crass than the former. I was merely disputing the usage of "You want to talk about business? What happens to a business when they *** their customers off by selling nothing but cheap crap at an inflated price?" . Cheap crap and inflated prices are the very definition of everything the crown store has stood for since its inception. I get why things are priced higher when it comes to MMO's, but I don't get why one 'special' mount can cost 2500cr, the next one 3000cr and so on. The same goes for pets. The exact same pet but with a different skin can cost 200cr more than the one before it. A lot of people have no issue with that. Doesn't get questioned by many and people are shot down when they do speak out about it. Even take the new "Elder Council" Tunic and Sash costume, why is no one questioning why they've suddenly upped the price of a costume by 300crs? Doesn't look any more spectacular than most of the 700cr costumes.
Agreed. They will keep changing the prices until they hit something no one will pay. I have no idea how long people will put up with this however. For some people if they really want a costume or item, they'll pay whatever price is up. Some might wait until a sale. Others will get fed up and stop their active support/subs, or leave for a new game that hasn't started the rngesus crate route yet.
2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Do you go into a car dealership and post a "Don't buy a Lamborghini" sign?
People can do what they want with their money.
You can inform them on the odds, but don't tell them what to do or not to do.
To be fair, you don't go into a dealership and spend multiple times the value of the product on a chance for the product do you? The shop sells you the product you want, not a 1 in XXXX chance at possibly maybe having what you wanted to buy at several times its actual value.
Which is exactly like the way the Crown Store operates. That is the correct analogy with the car dealership, not the Crown Crates which are much more analogous to a store selling lottery tickets - except that in the case of the Crown Crates you are guaranteed to receive an assortment of items with a combined value at least equal to the price paid. There are no guaranteed returns on lottery tickets or any other form of "gambling" that I'm aware of. True, not everyone wants the assorted items in the crates but that's something for them to factor into their decision whether or not to purchase them.0 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable.
As opposed to what you think is best and what you find acceptable?
This is getting laughable.
I agree whole heartedly.I have laughed all over these forums over the intense outrage over something ZOS put out 3 days ago.
If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
As opposed to you nitpicking with your terms and logic?
How about you respond to the more important matters?
Ok I will.
And what do you value then?
I value ZOS doing exactly what it wants to do and not caving to whatever direction the wind blows. I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices?
Anti-consumer practices per your opinion? Or anti-consumer practices as defined legally which you can clearly prove to ZOS right here in the forums?
Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money?
Well for one these are public forums for all in the ESO community to participate in freely. Also I personally ended up in this thread in particular as I saw people once again crossing the line of constructive criticism and into the realm of disrespect (towards ZOS). How did you yourself end up in this discussion?
There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
Seeing as Cyrodiil contains PvE (and quite a bit of it actually), sky shards, achievements, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE only players commenting on Cyrodiil if they so choose.1 -
JimT722✭✭✭✭✭
✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable.
As opposed to what you think is best and what you find acceptable?
This is getting laughable.
I agree whole heartedly.I have laughed all over these forums over the intense outrage over something ZOS put out 3 days ago.
If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
As opposed to you nitpicking with your terms and logic?
How about you respond to the more important matters?
Ok I will.
And what do you value then?
I value ZOS doing exactly what it wants to do and not caving to whatever direction the wind blows. I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices?
Anti-consumer practices per your opinion? Or anti-consumer practices as defined legally which you can clearly prove to ZOS right here in the forums?
Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money?
Well for one these are public forums for all in the ESO community to participate in freely. Also I personally ended up in this thread in particular as I saw people once again crossing the line of constructive criticism and into the realm of disrespect (towards ZOS). How did you yourself end up in this discussion?
There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
Seeing as Cyrodiil contains PvE (and quite a bit of it actually), sky shards, achievements, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE only players commenting on Cyrodiil if they so choose.
Why do people defend what the game director won't. Even he doesn't try to justify their implementation, instead he avoided the question by talking about other things they had done recently. Why? Because even they can't find a way to put the implementation of these in a positive light. Yet other people who have never bought, will buy, or experienced them in other games leap to their defense.Edited by JimT722 on December 4, 2016 10:08PM4 -
Publius_Scipio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable.
As opposed to what you think is best and what you find acceptable?
This is getting laughable.
I agree whole heartedly.I have laughed all over these forums over the intense outrage over something ZOS put out 3 days ago.
If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
As opposed to you nitpicking with your terms and logic?
How about you respond to the more important matters?
Ok I will.
And what do you value then?
I value ZOS doing exactly what it wants to do and not caving to whatever direction the wind blows. I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices?
Anti-consumer practices per your opinion? Or anti-consumer practices as defined legally which you can clearly prove to ZOS right here in the forums?
Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money?
Well for one these are public forums for all in the ESO community to participate in freely. Also I personally ended up in this thread in particular as I saw people once again crossing the line of constructive criticism and into the realm of disrespect (towards ZOS). How did you yourself end up in this discussion?
There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
Seeing as Cyrodiil contains PvE (and quite a bit of it actually), sky shards, achievements, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE only players commenting on Cyrodiil if they so choose.
Why do people defend what the game director won't. Even he doesn't try to justify their implementation, instead he avoided the question by talking about other things they had done recently. Why? Because even they can't find a way to put the implementation of these in a positive light. Yet other people who have never bought, will buy, or experienced them in other games leap to their defense.
Look and read closely. I am not here to defend anyone except say that no one should disrespect ZOS. They are people like we are. That's the first thing. Second You, me, everyone else here only have OPINIONS on this topic. So unless ZOS screwed up legally then everything is fine in my book.1 -
Bryanonymous✭✭✭✭✭Publius_Scipio wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Bouldercleave wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).
Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.
Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.
Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.
And yet you still play their game, just don't support them and call them unethical?! What a hypocrite. If you feel that strongly about their company why are you still indulging in their product?
All you people that call them unethical, greedy, and incompetent while still playing their game for free disgust me.
You assume these people are playing it for free. The pro-crate attitude disgusts me.
If you read the post that I quoted it's not an assumption. It was clearly stated that he plays without subbing or supporting the company.
I'm not pro-crate, I pro choice.
They are not pro-choice. The very mechanism of hiding new items away in RNG crates removes my ability to choose to purchase what I want.
No it doesn't. You know how to get the item you want. It boils down to if you CHOOSE to spend possibly more than the item is worth to you. Your choice is to either buy the boxes for the CHANCE at the item you want, or don't buy the boxes at all and not get the item at all.
Sometimes in life you don't get everything you want in exactly the way that you want it.
Yet they implement this to bloat prices. In a fashion that is very dishonest. You may be okay with a company that implements a blatant ripoff but many aren't. Most won't know how low a chance they have either. ZOS isn't forthcoming with that information so some will be deceived into thinking they have a much better chance than they actually do.
I have to disagree. They have NOT been dishonest on these crates. They are working EXACTLY as they presented to us. Your personal decision is if they way they work is of value to you or not.
I'm ok with the company presenting these as I do not feel that they are doing anything wrong. I personally don't find enough value to actually BUY into the crate thing, but I can't in good conscience condemn something that I'm not really against.
Yet another person that doesn't actively support crown crates but still thinks he knows best what others should pay / find acceptable.
As opposed to what you think is best and what you find acceptable?
This is getting laughable.
I agree whole heartedly.I have laughed all over these forums over the intense outrage over something ZOS put out 3 days ago.
If you haven't figured it out: we're well aware that gambling by default doesn't promise anything. That doesn't really answer much of what we're saying other than your nitpicking over terms.
As opposed to you nitpicking with your terms and logic?
How about you respond to the more important matters?
Ok I will.
And what do you value then?
I value ZOS doing exactly what it wants to do and not caving to whatever direction the wind blows. I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
If you think crown crates aren't worth their money then why just sit by and let them continue with these anti-consumer practices?
Anti-consumer practices per your opinion? Or anti-consumer practices as defined legally which you can clearly prove to ZOS right here in the forums?
Or if you're not interested in crown store content at all then why are you participating in a discussion regarding our money?
Well for one these are public forums for all in the ESO community to participate in freely. Also I personally ended up in this thread in particular as I saw people once again crossing the line of constructive criticism and into the realm of disrespect (towards ZOS). How did you yourself end up in this discussion?
There have been enough of those exact people speaking in favor of crates and it's as nonsensical as a PvE-only player dictating to ZoS how cyrodiil should work.
Seeing as Cyrodiil contains PvE (and quite a bit of it actually), sky shards, achievements, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see PvE only players commenting on Cyrodiil if they so choose.
Why do people defend what the game director won't. Even he doesn't try to justify their implementation, instead he avoided the question by talking about other things they had done recently. Why? Because even they can't find a way to put the implementation of these in a positive light. Yet other people who have never bought, will buy, or experienced them in other games leap to their defense.
Because capitalism, freedom, and 'murica. Most of the time, it feels like they just want to play devils advocate with no real stake involved... Other times, I question if ZoS would hire their own CTR employees...4 -
f047ys3v3n✭✭✭✭✭
✭So, had a buddy buy the 15 pack. In one pack he got:
Red wolf mount
Ice horse mount
Atro camel mount
Atro wolf mount
Atro horse mount.
I just thought that I would have the fun of being the troll who posted that all that actually happened. I would say good for him but he has now fallen into the fundamental attribution error and thinks he is inherently the luckiest man on earth. He now plans to get a sharpened inferno on his first complete of vMA which is exactly a .6944% chance. It is a much higher change than the ~6.30*10^-6 % chance of getting the drops he got in one 15 pack but I still don't think it will happen for him as I don't think there is any such thing as a lucky person when it comes to brute RNG. I do, however, believe that ZOS RNG is very clock based though and that the clock basis is surprisingly granular such that the chances of getting a second apex reward immediately after the first in time is very much higher than getting one at any random time selected. I.E. I think the chances at almost all times are zero and the chances at some, very special, times are very high, probably around 1/3. The moral is, don't open all your boxes all at once unless you just hit an apex reward and then pound them down.
As for the crates, I don't intend to buy any. Some folks on the PTS were good enough to compile the statistics determining that the apex drop is about 1.8% meaning almost everybody will reach 400 gems before getting an atro. With crowns purchased in bulk at discount like Deltia did that is about $125. I'm just not that interested. I am happy people are though. The mounts look totally badass and I like seeing them around. I do hope it brings in a lot of money for new content development and maybe to hire some new folks to stomp on cheat engine use so we will actually be able to see how things need balanced and how content needs scaled as currently the doors are being blown of everything and I don't think it's legit.
Lastly, some folks that have spent out the big money for the crates are feeling a little ashamed to actually use the stuff as people know they are gamblers and they feel a bit of cultural backlash. You might want to give out 1 free crate with every month sub so that people can just lie about their gambling nature and all say they got their stuff in their monthly crate. Just a thought, there don't seem to be a cultural backlash about the sub but their does about the crates. Always best to make a plausible lie for folks to tell. I'll give you an example... I got 52k dps on my mSorc because the group buffs were so good in our raid and I am so skilled not because I was running cheat engine.
Just some thoughts.
I am currently worried for the future of ESO. Population seems like it is in free fall and the cancellation of the North America in-person gathering feels very much like pulling the plug. Kudos on fixing the in-game economy though. Clearly whatever gold shenanigans were happening the last couple years are fixed.1 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
There you go again. You never did answer the question of why people should be expected to respect ZOS when ZOS doesn't respect them in return? Even small gestures would go a long way. ZOS doesn't publish chances, despite requests for them to. And ZOS's communication has been non-existent and there have been no attempts to justify the Crates or even to offer assurances to allay the fears that people have over the future of the game.Publius_Scipio wrote: »I value people not disrespecting ZOS everytime they laughably think ZOS wronged them or did society dirty.
Respect is earned, not unilaterally given. And it is also easily squandered.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorOther Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information12
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