Do not buy Crown Crates!!!

Elsonso · December 2016

Recremen wrote: »

I really only wanted a stupid wizard hat. But not enough to spend 2-6 times it's value opening gamble boxes.

Yeah, same here. I'd buy the hat, if it were offered for sale directly. No way I am going to plop 400 Crowns down time after time to get a hat that would probably sell in the Store for 400-500 Crowns.

ZOS as their Crown Crates, and they are happy. I will just buy what they sell directly in the Store, and we will both be happy. This will have me spending less, which will make me more happy. I figure there are people who will plop down 400 Crowns, time after time, to get that hat. They will make ZOS very happy and ZOS will not miss my money.

Preyfar · December 2016

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

Callous2208 · December 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

I don't doubt this could be true. Just wish they had of tried harder to offer more things on the store for outright purchase first. Put those apex up for 5500 or more for all i care, but also put the other items up and leave them. Put random ones on sale sometimes to drum up interest but stuff that damn store full and leave the items in there. Get people spending the crowns, not gambling them. Getting pissed off when their buddy gets the mount they wanted in two crates and they're coming up empty after 20,000 crowns. Its just lame.

JimT722 · December 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

I would agree with that, but none of the articles ZOS released support that. They were dodgy, like they new they were releasing something bad. When asked why release crown crates Matt Firor didn't care to give an answer so he rambled on about 1t, dropping of subscription, and anything else besides crates.

I have no faith left in the direction this is going. Not only do I despise the inclusion of crates, the way the crates were implemented killed what respect I had left. Some of the items were known to be coming before crates were announced.

I might have been able to forgive the inclusion of crates, but not the manner in which they were included.

Preyfar · December 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

I don't doubt this could be true. Just wish they had of tried harder to offer more things on the store for outright purchase first. Put those apex up for 5500 or more for all i care, but also put the other items up and leave them. Put random ones on sale sometimes to drum up interest but stuff that damn store full and leave the items in there. Get people spending the crowns, not gambling them. Getting pissed off when their buddy gets the mount they wanted in two crates and they're coming up empty after 20,000 crowns. Its just lame.

Yeah. It took me 87 crates to a single mount, so... that's like, what, 26,500 or so crowns? I think ZOS implemented these in a terrible fashion, and (like many decision) really didn't give much care about player feedback.

One of the biggest complaints was about of diversity in the items. And yet, we're still getting tons of next to worthless crap that does nothing for end-gamers. The only saving grace is that we can convert them into gems, but ZOS has shown they didn't listen to the feedback (except when it comes to craftable XP potions).

But it's much like other PTS server issues. Lots of major issues reported, lots of major issues ignored. ZOS could have odne something interesting with the crates, but didn't.

Recremen · December 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

You'd think they could have used those to just purchase items directly, though, and were only stockpiling them in because they saw a lot of good datamined items and wanted to save up for them. And then have all that blow up in their face because it turns out you can't directly purchase more than half the new stuff.

Elsonso · December 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

If ZOS wants me to spend any of the Crowns I have in stock, they are going to have to come up with something a lot more honest than Crown Crates. I can tell you that much. I am just as likely to shut down and hoard those Crowns as spend them, if I think they are just trying to get me to waste them.

Bouldercleave · December 2016

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You have ZERO proof of that statement. There is absolutely no real evidence that they are pouring all current and future resources into the crown store. N O N E.

I don't care what has happened in the past in "other" games. IF it happens here then we have the discussion and make our choices; but until it happens here, it is nothing but unbased bluster.

That's true.

It's also true that we have zero proof of the opposite.

But can you really blame people for refusing to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt after so many perceived slights by ZOS? ZOS could've disclosed drop rates and given us transparency. They opted not to. ZOS could've made the non-themed Crate items available for purchase directly--even at inflated prices--for people who don't want to deal with RNG, but they opted not to. In the face of all this backlash, ZOS could've come in and made a post reassuring people what lines they will not cross in the future. They don't even do that.

Why do you expect people to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt?

I don't expect people to. I do because I like to crucify people and companies AFTER the do something wrong, not before.

That's your choice. Let people make theirs, repleat with all opinions and advise they can glean on the matter.

You wanna advocate for choice? Let people make what you consider the -wrong- choice.

If you read my initial post on this thread, it has been what I have advocated all along...

Bouldercleave · December 2016

lordrichter wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

If ZOS wants me to spend any of the Crowns I have in stock, they are going to have to come up with something a lot more honest than Crown Crates. I can tell you that much. I am just as likely to shut down and hoard those Crowns as spend them, if I think they are just trying to get me to waste them.

That's actually the way I feel about the crates too - even though many people assume otherwise. I have not, will not purchase the crates even though I advocate that they are not nearly as dishonest and evil as they are made out to be.

I see no value in them personally, but I do not find them to be the malicious evil than some do. Personally I'm all for freedom of choice, and they have given us that.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2016

JimT722 wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

I would agree with that, but none of the articles ZOS released support that. They were dodgy, like they new they were releasing something bad. When asked why release crown crates Matt Firor didn't care to give an answer so he rambled on about 1t, dropping of subscription, and anything else besides crates.

I have no faith left in the direction this is going. Not only do I despise the inclusion of crates, the way the crates were implemented killed what respect I had left. Some of the items were known to be coming before crates were announced.

I might have been able to forgive the inclusion of crates, but not the manner in which they were included.

Well it is above even Matts paygrade when it comes to whether these things will exist in the game or not. Matt doesnt get to decide what ZOS will do to make money or not. Only how to make it work within the confines of the game and then delegate it to the right department.

augestflex_ESO · December 2016

I had all of the crown mounts, non-combat pets, hair styles, markings, costumes, and 60/60/60 horse riding lessons before crown crate introduction.

With that in mind, and the gem conversion for that (and most of the potions, food soul gems, drinks, poisons, and repair crates were also converted to gems), it took US $390 worth of crown gems, so around 55k crowns worth of 15 pack crates to get all of the items introduced in the crown store under the Crown Crates section.

The items were all won with the exception of those bought with 1400 worth of gems.

While I am happy to have the collectibles, especially the mounts and non-combat pets, I will say for a collector this is a very steep price and is somewhat of a turn off as while I could afford to spend nearly $400 this time, that really isn't going to be sustainable every quarter.

Additionally I feel that the conversion rate for many items to gems is low. I understand the conversion rate for common items like scrolls, potions, and even some of the common pets/mounts. However I did get several rare mounts that I had already collected or recently won from crates and if I recall, the highest of these only converted to 33 gems despite its cost in the Crown Store under the Crown Crates section was more than 10 times as much!

Take this for what it is worth.

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Recremen wrote: »

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

You'd think they could have used those to just purchase items directly, though, and were only stockpiling them in because they saw a lot of good datamined items and wanted to save up for them. And then have all that blow up in their face because it turns out you can't directly purchase more than half the new stuff.

This really hits the nail on the head. A lot of people were led to believe that their crowns would be redeemable for future cosmetic items straight up. So they stocked up when the crowns went on sale, only to find out that a majority of the new content will now be released in these random scams. The crowns and the items were already overpriced to begin with, but this is a whole new level of rip off. The promise that the crowns would have value to purchase new crown store items is pretty much the most obvious part of the deception. And they will play it off by releasing one or two items directly into the store so people can say 'no, not everything is in the boxes'. Yea, only the stuff worth buying.

DrkHunter86 · December 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).

Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.

So where again did zos post the odds? Maybe I missed this thread. All I hear you saying is zos is unethical which I agree with 110%

KingMagaw · December 2016

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

National Problem Gambling Helpline Network (1-800-522-4700).

Every ethical gambling company posts the odds of winning AND provides information on how to get help. Las vegas is required by the Nevada Gaming commission to both post odds of every game and provide resources to fight gambling addiction.

Totally agree. I have a friend who had to go to gambling rehab and 8 months and now these gambling cash grab crates have been added to the game is a disgrace, especially without any odds being stated, which clearly reinforces the poor drop rates.

Why are people being subjected and advertised to gamble real money in a game is beyond unethical. It is just another point of why not to sub or support Z0$ and there continued incompetence.

starkerealm · December 2016

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

ArrerBoy wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

The practice of selling them should be discouraged. If you aren't helping that then you're complicit in it. I don't see why this is so difficult to grasp.

Okay let me take this slowly then.

If something doesn't sell well, you pull it from the market. That is good business practice.

As of now with people buying them by the truckload, complaining about it rings hollow because it still sends the message you're willing to pay for it no matter how much you don't like it.

Let's take this even more slowly.

Doing as you said might benefit you short term, but it does erode consumer trust. Which is why companies that operate in "good faith", tend to perform better/have a healthier and more sustainable consumer base. There are only so many times you can sell comeone crap.

False

Exhibit A: Comcast

A state sanctioned monopoly for a vital service isn't even remotely similar to a business that actually needs to compete for its customers.

Bryanonymous · December 2016

Gambling implies a chance to win something more than what you started with. Most of the crap in these crates should not be worth more than $10. This isn't gambling. It's just a rip off.

Mojmir · December 2016

This is the first run of the crates,they might not have something you desire now,but watch and see.eventually this system will supercede and become the more important development aspect of the game.they will find a way to lure even the most shrewd
consumer into a purchase.

Sigma957 · December 2016

Crown crates actually gives you something 100% of the time with each turn(may not be too your liking though ) so they don't really need to post the odds of winning something whereas xlotto, slot machines etc there is a huge chance you not win anything so they have to tell you the odds at winning. Each to his/her own, some people may like buying crates, who are we to deny them their fun.

Nyx2 · December 2016

Sigma957 wrote: »

Crown crates actually gives you something 100% of the time with each turn(may not be too your liking though ) so they don't really need to post the odds of winning something whereas xlotto, slot machines etc there is a huge chance you not win anything so they have to tell you the odds at winning. Each to his/her own, some people may like buying crates, who are we to deny them their fun.

"We" are the costumers who finance this game. Seriously, read the two comments above summing up some of the big issues, I don't want to repeat myself over and over again. The consumables are of NO value, the gem conversion is abysmal and requires you to buy more and more crates to finally be able to buy something with them.

My question is very simple: why would any costumer choose gambling to perhaps get what they like instead of direct purchases? What "fun" is that supposed to be to waste all your crowns on nothing when ZoS could instead conduct honest business that tells you exactly what you're getting? I haven't gotten a single reason why these crates are good to anyone but ZoS.

ItsGlaive · December 2016

Preyfar wrote: »

After thinking about it a bit more, I think the Crown Crates are also partly a response to several things. I recall a while ago that there were as a bunch of emails from ZOS that went out to people who had literally been stockpiling crowns and has no reason to spend them. While the crates ARE a money grab, I also believe this was ZOS' answer to try to incentivize people to spend all their stockpiled crowns while getting people to invest more in them.

A lot of people seem to be pointing fingers at this being a gateway to F2P, but it could just be a crown sink for all those who've been stashing crowns without a real reason to use them.

Most were stashing crowns because ZOS are so incredibly slow at doling out any kind of new content - store stock included. Everything comes piecemeal. Yes you could well be correct on your assumption, but they've only got themselves to blame by not actually giving us anything to spend them on.

Now they've gone from one extreme to the other - instead of being able to buy items we want, we now have to buy a chance at an item we want, and chances at a whole lot of cr*p that we don't want

ItsGlaive · December 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You keep going in circles because you keep equating what ZOS should do in your mind with what is "supposed" to work for customers as you think it should. DO NOT BUY CROWN CRATES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM! It is really not more complicated than that.

What more do you want from anyone here or even ZOS? ZOS doesn't even want you buying crown crates if you don't want to, that's why it's OPTIONAL!

Yes I am American. To confirm for you there.

You avoided the question again. You don't need to tell me what I can do, I know that myself.

Again: "you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you?"

"You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this?"

I'm telling you very clearly what I want but it seems you're afraid to answer. This is just really poor argumentation...

I really wish I could explain to your face exactly what I mean. Because the answer keeps soaring over your head. I don't have any desire to get a stupid mount so I don't play with crown crates. Crown crates aren't in my way of enjoying ESO so I don't whine about it. Objectively, crown crates prevent no one from enjoying ESO, they are a completely optional. If ZOS put the game behind crown crates and it was the only way to enjoy it, I would quietly no longer play ESO. If you desire you want a mount then you must accept the system which crown crates currently work. That's my answer. No one disrespect ZOS, and no one whine like ESO was ruined by some optional side gag.

That side gag is now the main attraction, feature, source of new fun, from here on out. Please show a little respect and do not label it a side gag. Folks at ZOS are working to ensure that all resources are poured into fun boxes going forward. Don't belittle their commitment.

You have ZERO proof of that statement. There is absolutely no real evidence that they are pouring all current and future resources into the crown store. N O N E.

I don't care what has happened in the past in "other" games. IF it happens here then we have the discussion and make our choices; but until it happens here, it is nothing but unbased bluster.

Of course, because closing the stable door after the horse has bolted has always been the best way to deal with things in the past

ItsGlaive · December 2016

Bouldercleave wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

You have ZERO proof of that statement. There is absolutely no real evidence that they are pouring all current and future resources into the crown store. N O N E.

I don't care what has happened in the past in "other" games. IF it happens here then we have the discussion and make our choices; but until it happens here, it is nothing but unbased bluster.

That's true.

It's also true that we have zero proof of the opposite.

But can you really blame people for refusing to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt after so many perceived slights by ZOS? ZOS could've disclosed drop rates and given us transparency. They opted not to. ZOS could've made the non-themed Crate items available for purchase directly--even at inflated prices--for people who don't want to deal with RNG, but they opted not to. In the face of all this backlash, ZOS could've come in and made a post reassuring people what lines they will not cross in the future. They don't even do that.

Why do you expect people to give ZOS the benefit of the doubt?

I don't expect people to. I do because I like to crucify people and companies AFTER the do something wrong, not before.

If the house next door is burning, do you wait for yours to catch fire too before evacuating? Better to be safe than sorry surely?

Sometimes a little intelligence is required. Sure there's no proof, but there's plenty of precedent in this area, including many MMOs that certain ZOS staff members have been directly involved with. Is it not wiser - being observant enough to spot the signs - to have the discussions now before the damage is done?

Fodore · December 2016

I opened 15 crates and got storm guar, storm camel, grand crown scroll and about 100 gems worth of other stuff

Fodore · December 2016

Xabien wrote: »

Bouldercleave wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

"Worth" is not dependant on ZOS price tag but to how valuable they really are. Poisons for example have no worth at all since these are extremely easy to get. Same goes for pointless werewolf / vampire bites... all free and mostly easy to acquire yet they cost like 1k crowns.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

I have nothing against direct purchases. I have nothing against crown crates. ZOS can include whatever "benefit" it sees fit into its product, whether you personally believe there is no benefit to anyone but ZOS itself. You make the decision to whether or not you want to consume their product.

I absolutely will defend their right to be "stupid", smart, goofy, funny, upside down, sideways, etc etc. It is the very right they have that should be defended. The same right we all have, individuals and businesses. And ZOS should absolutely not bend to the will and logic you believe in unless they themselves want to change course.

If you think a cookie should cost as much as car then I guess there is nothing much I can argue with. Why would anyone that is actually interested in buying said cookie choose the price much higher? It seems you don't even use the crown store which makes this very easy. I can't fathom any other explanation and you don't need to answer. You just lost me completely with this "logic".

Let me try to get something through to you. It's called freedoms. F R E E D O M!

You're completely missing the point. You have "freedom" as well. The freedom to oppose this nonsense yet you defend the developers and their ridiculous thieving. God, "patriots" are annoying.

There is no patriot. I made my point clearly. ZOS should absolutely not bend to anyone's will/idea/thoughts unless they themselves decide to take a course of action with how they want to handle their business. You can say whatever you want, you can do whatever you want, you can buy all the crown crates you want. Doesn't matter to me. If internally ZOS holds a meeting and says let us keep crown crates up simply to troll all the players, then I give that decision two thumbs up. If ZOS decides to do away with crown crates then I give it two thumbs up.

Social justice warriors in an uproar because a game company put completely optional slot machine into their game......

There are. Your constant need to express how american you are is irritating and seems to be exactly the reason why you refuse to make any sense.

You haven't refuted me implying it and I don't like making assumptions but lets be honest: you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you? That's why you don't care and can very easily defend the freedom you're so proud of. Because your money isn't affected in any way. You just blatantly said you're fine with ZOS trolling their costumers. You're a costumer, why the hell would you not make use of that great freedom you keep preaching? That's just hypocritical on every level.

You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this? But instead of answering you just go back to how they have the right to be as unreasonable as they like which brings nothing across. We all know that and that isn't the point of this thread. You're going in circles, trying make a point that is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

You keep going in circles because you keep equating what ZOS should do in your mind with what is "supposed" to work for customers as you think it should. DO NOT BUY CROWN CRATES IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE SYSTEM! It is really not more complicated than that.

What more do you want from anyone here or even ZOS? ZOS doesn't even want you buying crown crates if you don't want to, that's why it's OPTIONAL!

Yes I am American. To confirm for you there.

You avoided the question again. You don't need to tell me what I can do, I know that myself.

Again: "you don't actually buy anything from the crown store, do you?"

"You could spend money on these crates for eternity and never get the item you want. Tell me why you as a costumer would desire this?"

I'm telling you very clearly what I want but it seems you're afraid to answer. This is just really poor argumentation...

I really wish I could explain to your face exactly what I mean. Because the answer keeps soaring over your head. I don't have any desire to get a stupid mount so I don't play with crown crates. Crown crates aren't in my way of enjoying ESO so I don't whine about it. Objectively, crown crates prevent no one from enjoying ESO, they are a completely optional. If ZOS put the game behind crown crates and it was the only way to enjoy it, I would quietly no longer play ESO. If you desire you want a mount then you must accept the system which crown crates currently work. That's my answer. No one disrespect ZOS, and no one whine like ESO was ruined by some optional side gag.

That side gag is now the main attraction, feature, source of new fun, from here on out. Please show a little respect and do not label it a side gag. Folks at ZOS are working to ensure that all resources are poured into fun boxes going forward. Don't belittle their commitment.

You have ZERO proof of that statement. There is absolutely no real evidence that they are pouring all current and future resources into the crown store. N O N E.

I don't care what has happened in the past in "other" games. IF it happens here then we have the discussion and make our choices; but until it happens here, it is nothing but unbased bluster.

Of course, because closing the stable door after the horse has bolted has always been the best way to deal with things in the past

When that happens you catch the horse again and get a vet to see to any injuries, same applies here.

Vorcil · December 2016

spent 10k crowns (30 crates)

didn't get anything I wanted

And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)

I will never buy any more

Fodore · December 2016

Vorcil wrote: »

spent 10k crowns (30 crates)

didn't get anything I wanted

And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)

I will never buy any more

Just because YOU had a bad experience doesn't mean that you need to preach your bad luck to everyone, it's bad luck that's all. Don't go complaining about a gamble that didn't pay off, you bought into crates knowing full well that you were not garunteed an "amazing" item, whatever you perceive "amazing to be".

I got storm guar, storm camel and grand scroll and about 100 gems from 15crates. Now, I'm not trying to force positive experiences on people who will think they will get my luck, but I'm simply shedding some light on what (imo) is getting far more hate that it deserves. I probably will never get as lucky as I did with my crates... But I will still buy crates in the future in hope of getting some cool stuff whilst knowing full well that I may not even get what I want... And when that happens I won't come on the forums and tell people not to buy crown crates.

ItsGlaive · December 2016

Fodore wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

spent 10k crowns (30 crates)

didn't get anything I wanted

And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)

I will never buy any more

Just because YOU had a bad experience doesn't mean that you need to preach your bad luck to everyone, it's bad luck that's all. Don't go complaining about a gamble that didn't pay off, you bought into crates knowing full well that you were not garunteed an "amazing" item, whatever you perceive "amazing to be".

I got storm guar, storm camel and grand scroll and about 100 gems from 15crates. Now, I'm not trying to force positive experiences on people who will think they will get my luck, but I'm simply shedding some light on what (imo) is getting far more hate that it deserves. I probably will never get as lucky as I did with my crates... But I will still buy crates in the future in hope of getting some cool stuff whilst knowing full well that I may not even get what I want... And when that happens I won't come on the forums and tell people not to buy crown crates.

Honest question - which experience do you think will be most typical of this kind of "cups game" system?

Fodore · December 2016

Xabien wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

spent 10k crowns (30 crates)

didn't get anything I wanted

And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)

I will never buy any more

Just because YOU had a bad experience doesn't mean that you need to preach your bad luck to everyone, it's bad luck that's all. Don't go complaining about a gamble that didn't pay off, you bought into crates knowing full well that you were not garunteed an "amazing" item, whatever you perceive "amazing to be".

I got storm guar, storm camel and grand scroll and about 100 gems from 15crates. Now, I'm not trying to force positive experiences on people who will think they will get my luck, but I'm simply shedding some light on what (imo) is getting far more hate that it deserves. I probably will never get as lucky as I did with my crates... But I will still buy crates in the future in hope of getting some cool stuff whilst knowing full well that I may not even get what I want... And when that happens I won't come on the forums and tell people not to buy crown crates.

Honest question - which experience do you think will be most typical of this kind of "cups game" system?

The bad ones of course, I'm not in denial... All I'm trying to point out is that there is a chance to get what you wanted. The thing I have a large problem with is these threads telling people how bad these crates are when they were probably expecting a storm mount or another high end reward. These people bought into the system knowing that the drop chance would be low... Very low. They have themselves to blame and that's it. What is the point of making the rewards that make people want to buy the crates common? Ask yourself that.

Dubhliam · December 2016

Do you go into a car dealership and post a "Don't buy a Lamborghini" sign?

People can do what they want with their money.
You can inform them on the odds, but don't tell them what to do or not to do.

ItsGlaive · December 2016

Fodore wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Fodore wrote: »

Vorcil wrote: »

spent 10k crowns (30 crates)

didn't get anything I wanted

And don't see that I can buy much that I would like; (150 crown gems from 10k crowns)

I will never buy any more

Just because YOU had a bad experience doesn't mean that you need to preach your bad luck to everyone, it's bad luck that's all. Don't go complaining about a gamble that didn't pay off, you bought into crates knowing full well that you were not garunteed an "amazing" item, whatever you perceive "amazing to be".

I got storm guar, storm camel and grand scroll and about 100 gems from 15crates. Now, I'm not trying to force positive experiences on people who will think they will get my luck, but I'm simply shedding some light on what (imo) is getting far more hate that it deserves. I probably will never get as lucky as I did with my crates... But I will still buy crates in the future in hope of getting some cool stuff whilst knowing full well that I may not even get what I want... And when that happens I won't come on the forums and tell people not to buy crown crates.

Honest question - which experience do you think will be most typical of this kind of "cups game" system?

The bad ones of course, I'm not in denial... All I'm trying to point out is that there is a chance to get what you wanted. The thing I have a large problem with is these threads telling people how bad these crates are when they were probably expecting a storm mount or another high end reward. These people bought into the system knowing that the drop chance would be low... Very low. They have themselves to blame and that's it. What is the point of making the rewards that make people want to buy the crates common? Ask yourself that.

No I agree, these crates are engineered to work against players, I don't dispute it. In fact it's the entire basis of the argument that they're a lousy idea because they're anti-consumer.