kasa-obake wrote: »

At any rate, sorry if I seem scathing or tried to deride you personally, but running it 4 more times today and getting charged and decisive loot almost brought me to tears.
I don't subscribe to the Lich hype for sorcs. Whether it's just me or not, but I really feel like I sustain more with seducer/amberplasm/kagrenac. As such, my build choices are limited. 5 seducer + 2 monster sets require you to have a no-set or vMSA staff.
In the meantime, I work with golden shadowdancer x4, but it's subpar and I do feel the loss of damage.

That's not even true, they don't require that. You can use two 5 piece sets on a weapon swap. One of the sets being jewelry + weapon + 1 body piece and the other one being 4 body pieces + a weapon. That leaves two slots for a monster set.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

@kasa-obake
Do you have an updated list with more drops?
i'm interested to see the results after 1,000 +

@jakeedmundson

She's currently on a forced holiday at the moment, but will be back from her absence December 2nd and will post the data then

Having been on a forced break following the perhaps deliberate usage of the words "woman of promiscuous behaviour" in an otherwise constructive and relevant post, I sadly could not QQ until now. Damn the 19th century maiden sensibilities of the relevant authorities.
But now I'm back, and with a vengeance. Thank you @Alucardo for keeping my thread updated in the meantime.

So, while I couldn't post it, I have kept on running vMSA and taking into account posts from others on forums and in-game, still ignoring double-posts (PC EU). This brings the total of the loot to roughly 1.5k (1,471 to be exact, but 1.5k sounds neater).
Below are the new and updated table and pie charts, because who doesn't love pie charts.








As with my previous graphs here, seems like the trait distribution is pretty balanced. However the item distribution is not, and that reflects with the sheer amount of Bows and Restoration staves that drop.
Again, this seems to confirm what @Alanar was saying a month ago.

Alanar wrote: »
So your chances of getting a specific weapon are:

Bow - 1/6
Restoration Staff - 1/6

Dagger - 1/12
Sword - 1/12
Mace - 1/12
Axe - 1/12

Greatsword - 1/18
Battle Axe - 1/18
Maul - 1/18
Lightning Staff - 1/18
Frost Staff - 1/18
Fire Staff - 1/18

So if you're hunting a sharpened fire staff, you have a 1/18 chance of getting a fire staff at all, and a 1/8 chance of getting sharpened, for a total chance of 1/144 on each drop.

Now, since I feel like I've been silenced away for far too long and I do love writing/talking/otherwise expressing myself and letting people know my righteous wrath, several points have been raised all through the event that I'd like to adress:

1. People who write on forums are the ones being slighted by the RNJesus - While it is true that some of the posters kept on running the arena for lack of a sharpened staff/ dagger drop, many have gotten them at some point or another. Just look at the Sharpened Trait distribution. And the sheer fact that so many people feel like taking the time to go on the forums and write about it seems to indicate that there's something wrong with the drops. It's not just one guy crying about not getting a sharpened inferno after 500+ runs. It's many. And a lot of people did share their sharpened 2h/1h drops, no doubt fishing for some jealous comments. People who got their sharpened staff/dagger on their first try are the exception, not the rule. And quite a few of them posted about it too.
   
   
2. 1.5k runs isn't enough; these tables do not prove anything until ZOS publishes all the data from all the players.
   Yes, why do you think I'm doing this? I want ZOS to react, I want them to acknowledge this issue, to talk about vMSA and to publish some *** data of their own. I do not care if they deride my fancy pie charts, as long as they react in some way instead of lurking on roleplay threads. If they actually make a statement, at least we'll have something to hold them up to. For now, their deafening silence says enough, I think.
   
   
3. If you think vMSA is such a chore, stop running it.
   No. Some people might have given up on it, some very good players even, and while I'm so very tired of living so close to the sharpened staves that they become a permanent blur out of the corner of my eye, I will keep on running that stupid arena simply because of hope. There is no data from ZOS, there is no statement, and as far as the majority of players is concerned, there is no evidence that the loot is skewed. And while I have the 1.5k runs and their disheartening results, somewhere deep in my cold black heart, I hold out hope that maybe, just maybe, this run will be the right one, and the RNJesus will grant me the sharpened *** staff I have been praying for.
   Which brings me to point 4.
   
   
4. Settle for alternative gear.
   Maybe it's perfectionism, maybe it's entitlement, but I do not want to settle for anything other than the best. Especially when the so-called "best" seems so tantalizingly near, just another vMSA run away. If there were any other viable 1-piece item/bonus available for gold or AP, sure. As it is, there are only vMSA and vDSA weapons. Farm vDSA then, one might say. Well, I did. And got precise staves from it at best. Additionally, vDSA is more time consuming and requires to have a good group ready, whereas vMSA can be done by yourself and faster. (I'm talking in general, I am well aware that you can complete vDSA in less than an hour). Also, vDSA weapons as a whole have less PVE utility than vMSA ones : vMSA daggers are better, vMSA greatswords too, vDSA bows and destro staves have more utility only in PvP, and vDSA greatswords' bonus is useless. Only vDSA 1h swords and restoration staves can find utility in PvE, but as I said, it requires more time and group coordination, making it even more of a chore than vMSA, once you've ran it enough times. (I remember I actually had fun during my first vDSA runs. After awhile though, it becomes tedious and boring).
   For people who enjoy PvE, sure vDSA might be an alternative. Thing is, PvP players have no equivalent for this loot. I play this game for PvP, however unbalanced, laggy and zergy it is. And Maelstrom / Dragonstar staves have no equivalent available via PvP means. Yes, you can do without them, but you will lose overall damage (unless you run Spriggan + Lich in the current meta, which isn't everyone's case). But beyond specific builds, having your choice of gear limited not by your lack of skill or dedication but by sheer dumb luck and uneven odds is flat out depressing.
   I keep mentioning destruction staves here, but for stamina builds it even worse. The Maelstrom Dagger bonus is way too good. And I do mean it. While you can wear a Moondancer or no-set staff and lose about 2k overall DPS, for stamina builds, these numbers are higher.
   
   
5. Settle for a sub-par trait (aka not sharpened).
   Here comes a problem with the overall end-game trait system. Even though ZOS has overhauled other traits with the DB patch, sharpened is just way too good to pass up. I have Precise vMSA staves. I have a lot of them, but they bring worse DPS results than a no-set sharpened staff does. And isn't it quite problematic when the supposed "end-game rare loot" is worse than just a random golden one does?

Briefly about the utility of other vMSA traits that peasants use :(focusing on DPS builds since tanks and healers have other better weapons at their disposal : dragon, ebony, worm, alkosh, aether, hircine, twilight remedy, spell power cure etc. etc.)

On the PvE part of things, anything other than sharpened is crap. While there are some niche builds that can afford to run Nirn or Precise - looking at stamblades with Alkosh + Spriggan and Nirned / Precise daggers, that's all they are, niche builds suited for one player out of a raid of 12, and assuming the bosses are fully debuffed with major fracture, breach, crusher, aether etc.

Making vMSA shields just a random piece with no bonus attached to it was a terrible idea and whoever thought it up should very ashamed. You can't even get a hakeijo back from deconstructing it. *yells shame while some church bells ring in the distance*

Regarding vMSA swords / maces : in PvE they are way worse than their vDSA counterpart. In PvP they can find some utility, assuming you can match it with another set-piece shield. And for a magicka dk, they can be used on the back bar to get more health for dragon blood, but then again - endurance x2 brings more health. In the end, these items, just like the resto staves, are not the reason most people farm vMSA (I'm saying most because i'm pretty sure than someone, somewhere has a VMSA resto staff fetish). They are more like a necessary evil that you are liable to get.

Back to the traits : charged. This subject triggers me. Why on earth put Charged as a trait for items that have a 100% enchantment uptime and status effect? Just thinking about it is hilarious. Well until you get one or two dozen of them and want to throw them back at the devs who had this wonderful, nay brilliant idea.
Same goes for Powered on offensive weapons : daggers, destro staves...


ZOS has a track record for molesting hybrid builds' corpses, what with them prioritizing fixing the vigor casting animation that made your staff disappear instead of I don't know, how about any other *** more pressant issue ? But what they don't seem to get is that it doesn't work! People don't play them!
Or rather don't play them effectively. I have some footage of a hybrid sorc I made, where I reverse sliced inside my destro ulti, but never for the love of Talos have I thought about using vigor on a staff. (And that build worked simply because destro ulti is kind of broken atm; it doesn't make hybrids attractive or viable).
Nobody needs your charged and powered vMSA destro staves and daggers, they're rotten. Just like your thinking process when you've decided to implement them into the end-game loot tables.

Reprising what I said inb4 my forced vacation, we do not have Arcane rings of Vicious Ophidian, or Healthy Aether. You have taken the server down once to remove Restoration Staves of the Red Mountain out of all things, and supposedly instaured a smart loot system. Well, where is this smart loot system when you need it ? How are Charged vMSA daggers and Powered destruction staves smart? How are Ice staves of the Burning Spellweaver smart? Or Restoration Staves of Alkosh? How did these things, which are just as demanded as Red Mountain, if not more, bypass your smart loot system? How did you in good conscience leave them in the game?


You know, back when I was in high school and had Philosophy classes, sometimes due to too much other work, procrastination, family matters or other excuses and lack of time, I submitted half-assed essays. And calling them essays doesn't quite fit. They were more like a random collection of botched paragraphs without proof-reading or consistency which I pretended were relevant to the essay topic. And even as I submitted them, I felt ashamed. I felt very ashamed for wasting the teacher's time with these pages of crap, for his surely degrading opinion of me, and for overall not living up to my supposed potential...
How is it relevant, one might ask?
Well ZOS, you act like a sixteen year old overworked student with little time to spare on Philosophy when you could be thinking about boys, shopping, movies or literally anything else. Only what isn't too surprising though condemnable coming from a teenager stuck with a mandatory subject in high school, doesn't work out for grown-up professionals who get paid for it.

Even as you submit these ideas in meetings, work on them, and eventually throw them in the live server, I hope that you too feel ashamed. I hope that you are aware of your own disregard for your work, of the players' degrading opinion of you with every questionable decision that makes it live, and of the fact that you're missing out. This game has so much potential, so many opportunities just waiting to be seized, and players still around hoping for change. But that's all it is, unrealized, untapped potential waiting to be expanded upon by devs who would care.
And I really hope that you come around to it.

Maybe rotten ideas like Powered staves stem from a disillusionment in your work, and the universe overall; that state of mind where you just want to submit something and say "done" if only for your superiors to leave you alone, because ultimately none of it is real, and none of it matters. Maybe you wanted to be an archaeologist or a movie star or an explorer, and you ended up working a routine desk job, where everyday feels the same, lines of code stretch out beyond what waking eyes can see, and there is no excitement in sight.
But what I hope you get is that your game is an adventure. It is a wonderful world filled with original and diverse PvE dungeons, landscapes, storylines, not even to mention players themselves, who desperately try to make good PvP happen and bring relevant suggestions to your attention.
And this content is dynamic, what with ESO being an mmo and all. You keep expanding and rewriting it, pushing DLCs, and praise-worthy improvements (looking at Apothecary Satchels here). So maybe you do have somewhat boring job that doesn't live up to your childhood expectations, but never forget that these lines of code you work on make other people travel. From the burning sands of Alik'r to the battlefields of Cyrodiil. A world where you're a hero, where you feel like your decisions matter, where there is magic and you can do pretty much whatever, as long as its in line with the Community Rules. A world where you can go to escape the constant disappointment and downsides of a bleak everyday life, or simply to spend a good time. And your decisions to implement that worthless loot in supposedly difficult end-game content that requires time and dedication serve to ruin immersion more than any in-game troll ever could.

For all the lack of communication, support and back-and-forth with the playerbase, for all the game-breaking bugs that remain live for months at a time and lack of in-game GM presence, you do make good things happen.


Nothing is eternal. Not the universe, not you or me, and certainly not ESO. But your ship hasn't sunk yet. Over two years later, there is still a game, there are still forums, there are still players, and there is still hope. So seize the moment and make it truly great before it becomes irrelevant and cedes its place to Camelot Unchained or whatever equally promising game the future holds.

I don't know whether you have given up on the community just like you seemingly have given up on some aspects of the game (*cough* PvP *cough*), but just like I personally do not say you're entirely worthless because of your mishaps and try to acknowledge the good stuff that makes it live, you should not judge the community by a few rotten eggs that write in caps, put in a lot of exclamation marks to sound more important and say stuff like "omg i'm quitting the game, what a sham, zos you suck, worst game ever" yadda yadda. They do not reflect the majority of the players' opinions, and even if they do offend you with childish insults, you can always wipe your tears with the dollars they've spent on Dro Mathra mounts or Crown Crates.

This is a serious thread. Well as serious as one can get regarding a futile First World issue like unbalanced loot in an mmorpg. But nonetheless, please acknowledge it. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno




And whenever you decide to add nonsensical stuff like powered destruction staves or restoration staves of the vicious ophidian, please remember that people do care. And that you should too.