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Conjured Weapons for Magicka Users
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DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... (Please Explain)CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.
Perhaps read the thread, but I'll summarize.
For the weapons to work as a skill line only that summons weapons they would need to be toggle which take up the little space giving for a load out.
And as to making it feel like TES Conjured Weapons still used and scaled with Stamina without Mods.
Stamina and Magicka need to offer differing gameplay styles. More Magicka weapons might not be a bad thing, but they need to be different than just Stamina clones that scale on Magicka. Magicka has utility through amount of skills that are Magicka, while Stamina has utility through weapon choice.
Then again the forums are barely represented with such a small sample size, and not all players in game are on the forums. You personal experience talking to players in game is anecdotal as you can only interact with atiny portion of the actual playerbase at large.
But since you and a handful of others want it, presto instant majority. Sorry, that's not how math works.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.
Perhaps read the thread, but I'll summarize.
For the weapons to work as a skill line only that summons weapons they would need to be toggle which take up the little space giving for a load out.
And as to making it feel like TES Conjured Weapons still used and scaled with Stamina without Mods.
Stamina and Magicka need to offer differing gameplay styles. More Magicka weapons might not be a bad thing, but they need to be different than just Stamina clones that scale on Magicka. Magicka has utility through amount of skills that are Magicka, while Stamina has utility through weapon choice.
Then again the forums are barely represented with such a small sample size, and not all players in game are on the forums. You personal experience talking to players in game is anecdotal as you can only interact with atiny portion of the actual playerbase at large.
But since you and a handful of others want it, presto instant majority. Sorry, that's not how math works.
It was clearly already explained by others and me you can simply base it off magicka its not that big of a deal really, and allot come to the forums, it is very clear by the vote and the amount of people who talk about it in public chats and other forums I have seen that a ton of people want this, I do not care about exact numbers or what you think about them.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... (Please Explain)CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.
Perhaps read the thread, but I'll summarize.
For the weapons to work as a skill line only that summons weapons they would need to be toggle which take up the little space giving for a load out.
And as to making it feel like TES Conjured Weapons still used and scaled with Stamina without Mods.
Stamina and Magicka need to offer differing gameplay styles. More Magicka weapons might not be a bad thing, but they need to be different than just Stamina clones that scale on Magicka. Magicka has utility through amount of skills that are Magicka, while Stamina has utility through weapon choice.
Then again the forums are barely represented with such a small sample size, and not all players in game are on the forums. You personal experience talking to players in game is anecdotal as you can only interact with atiny portion of the actual playerbase at large.
But since you and a handful of others want it, presto instant majority. Sorry, that's not how math works.
It was clearly already explained by others and me you can simply base it off magicka its not that big of a deal really, and allot come to the forums, it is very clear by the vote and the amount of people who talk about it in public chats and other forums I have seen that a ton of people want this, I do not care about exact numbers or what you think about them.
See I wasn't making assumptions. You cannot or are unwilling address criticisms. You simply want it, and gimme, gimme. I don't care, and no is not an answer.0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.
Perhaps read the thread, but I'll summarize.
For the weapons to work as a skill line only that summons weapons they would need to be toggle which take up the little space giving for a load out.
And as to making it feel like TES Conjured Weapons still used and scaled with Stamina without Mods.
Stamina and Magicka need to offer differing gameplay styles. More Magicka weapons might not be a bad thing, but they need to be different than just Stamina clones that scale on Magicka. Magicka has utility through amount of skills that are Magicka, while Stamina has utility through weapon choice.
Then again the forums are barely represented with such a small sample size, and not all players in game are on the forums. You personal experience talking to players in game is anecdotal as you can only interact with atiny portion of the actual playerbase at large.
But since you and a handful of others want it, presto instant majority. Sorry, that's not how math works.
It was clearly already explained by others and me you can simply base it off magicka its not that big of a deal really, and allot come to the forums, it is very clear by the vote and the amount of people who talk about it in public chats and other forums I have seen that a ton of people want this, I do not care about exact numbers or what you think about them.
See I wasn't making assumptions. You cannot or are unwilling address criticisms. You simply want it, and gimme, gimme. I don't care, and no is not an answer.
No, I just seen enough claims for it myself to care less about what you think about my claims, your opinion literally does not matter to me, grow thicker skin like you told me. And actually you where.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!lucky_Sage wrote: »cpuScientist wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »lucky_Sage wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »2 of the classes already have magika melee builds with one of them syncing nicely with the dstaff.
OPs suggestion doesn't really offer them anything.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
yes but magdk has worse magicka control in pvp cuase of ult for execute and uses S&B or DW so this would fix that but the way magdks are now with BSW and skoria there damage is super high now but now cuase the class it self proc sets have issues as bad as CP does now. but without those sets magdks under preform they cant out sustain like they should.
I told my friend that I would be happy if they nerfed whip but fixed all there dots
I played a magdk for crontol of battlefield and dmg over times not burst
id rather control the field and make in mine and sustain pressure and wait for them to lose resources but doesn't work cuase of CP and proc sets
@lucky_Sage thx for the reply but it doesn't make sense
There are other reason why DKs, and others use S&B in PvP.
Using BSW doesn't cost DKs their proc set if you are meaning grothdar or the old Skoria set.
Maybe I'm to dumb that understand what you mean by proc sets for the DK
Or that would be less that BiS.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
its that they have magicka control issues cause of not using a magicka based weapon so we lose sustain and dmg from attack weaving
Your comment that I quoted says much more that has zero to do with this and the sets you seem to be mentioning as having a detrimental affect on sustain has nothing to do with this.
Additionally, what your proposing may not have much benefit either except for heavy basic attacks which is minimal if at all with any good rotation. Additionally, you seem to be speaking to one class and one class only and that is no reason to add a new weapon line.
Further, and most important, there are magika builds that are performing exceptionally well with the current game design and use a staff on one bar. DW is on the other bar, but you idea doesn't begin to address how it would be better than DW.
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
in my first comment I put 3 options
easiest way would be to change something in the mages guild skill line of a skill no one uses and make it convert stam weapons to scale from spell damage.
I've said something in a magdk post about changing molten armaments to convert stam weapons to magicka but guess would be unfair for magblades and magplars who also have melee abilities.
(both of those above would not convert the abilities to spell damage just have and light attacks and give magicka back with attacks instead of stam)
or a spell sword skill line using a one handed sword but most challenging to make.
maybe make where the element of the enchant used on sword is the element of attacks from abilities.
Edited by lucky_Sage on November 28, 2016 11:52AM
@Giles.floydub17_ESO
1. Very wrong about the mage guild and extreeemly had idea to change this line as you suggest. Every skill is used by someone with many heavily used. Additionally the passives on the stam weapons would be so wrong requiring a complete rethinking and of course should never touch S&B.
2. Molten Armaments- so we will give this benefit to only one class which is a poor idea. The buff cannot go to the group since it would mess up stamina builds.
In the end a new weapon line would be needed yet there has been zero real justification for this. Just people wanting it for this reason or that and the points that appear as solid reasoning are really not.
I said number 2 was not the best. But who uses equilibrium (I did hear about a few tamplar tanks but that's it) and I haven't seen fire trap used since IC launch.
but I know a few people use them.
but best one I would think is just add it to the other (entropy)degeneration.
but a new skill line would be best but hardest to do and id be afraid they would pay wall it which is why I think they havnt added combat skill lines cause they want to charge for new content
ALOT of people use equilibrium. Just about every Stam Sorc in PvP. Tanks, and some Magplars in PvE. The only skill that's really underused is volcanic rune as it's soooo bad lol. so so bad so so so so so bad. And even that's used for the knock up by alot of Mag in PvP.
@cpuScientist
I did mention rune as well. the rune cc isn't better than any class cc and I haven't seen used in a long time but could be wrong
No definitely the biggest piece if crap in the game. BUT I see Magplars run it lol. And some NB trolling lol. But honestly that skill needs a rework so so SOOOOOOO bad. Let it give some kind of buff or actually be a strong dot amd a strong trap.0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!But at the end of the day all magicka has is destro staff. Which while good offers zero versatility. And the main problem with this whole system goes back to caps. Stamina was never meant to be viable by itself. But with the removal it made it so going all in on magicka or stamina was the only way to DPS. So now we have this system. The game has not really recovered from that choice.0 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭KingDuncanVII wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »How about all weapons on execution of a fully charged heavy attack return the resource that you have the most attribute points into.
Then you can role play the rest.
If the Weapons weren't Magic nor Physical? And instead scaled off of whatever resource you had the most of? That would be the quickest way. Not sure how they would rework the active abilities and passives.
Yes exactly. Enchant your weapons with something colorful, bring out your inner role player, and ta-da!0 -
AzuraKin✭✭✭✭✭conjured weapons is interesting idea, but how would players find/craft these weapons for thier sets?v160 spellsword (nightblade)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 battlemage (sorcerer)
v160 restoration archmage (Templar)
v160 warrior (DragonKnight)
v160 assassin (nightblade)
v160 swordsman (sorcerer)
v160 spellsword (nightblade)1 -
Gothren✭✭✭✭✭I have a different idea... (Please Explain)i would say just change bound armaments to more offensive capabilities for stamina players. And for the love of god put the purple glow on the entire weapon. the bound armaments cosmetics right now is ***. also change bound armor to make it more useful for mages. the 8% magicka is not enough for a toggle0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
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Could also add the reverse for people who want to use a staff as a melee weaponlucky_Sage wrote: »easiest way would be to change something in the mages guild skill line of a skill no one uses and make it convert stam weapons to scale from spell damage.
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Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!KingDuncanVII wrote: »In fact, I ran into more Thalmor wielding conjured weapons on Skyrim than I ran into a Mage with a Staff.
This is not Skyrim, however.
You are stating the painfully obvious, however...
Did you think the person you quoted thinks this is skyrim?
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dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... (Please Explain)KingDuncanVII wrote: »In fact, I ran into more Thalmor wielding conjured weapons on Skyrim than I ran into a Mage with a Staff.
This is not Skyrim, however.
You are stating the painfully obvious, however...
Did you think the person you quoted thinks this is skyrim?
No they gave a troll response and got trolled right back.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!Close combat play style is just that, a play style. I hardly ever play my magicka DPS characters from max range: DK needs to be close anyway for most of the good abilities, Templars also for their biting jabs, NBs for their Sap Essence. Sorcs could lay back but evn they benefit from being closer for the Elemental Blockade that every magicka DPS uses or should use even in boss fights.
Besides, haven't you noticed that many abilities already have a summoned weapon as part of their animation? Biting Jabs, Spear Shards, Lava Whip, etc.?
Stop, you're applying too much logic and ignoring what they are "actually" saying.
The entire purpose of this post is: I want to use 2 5 piece sets and a monster set, but if i do that i can't get magicka back from a heavy attack
Everything else is fluff.
This would also be solved if staffs counted as 2 set items, or a second item was added to be slotted with a staff (book, sword, whatever)
Well you almost got it...
But there is more to it as stam has all the option.
Go full def with SnB for cheap blocking AND get mag back on heavies.
Go full offense with the highest wep/spell damage AND get mag back on heavies.
I would give up a 5 pc bonus for either of those options but yeah your right, fair is fair, 5 5 2 set for mag weps should be an option too.0 -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!No they gave a troll response and got trolled right back.
I was not "trolling" or trying to annoy anyone. I was trying to explain my perspective. That is all.Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
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• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
KimoBitz✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!KingDuncanVII wrote: »I love being Magicka-based but I hate having to use Destro (Range Weapon) for pure Magicka DPS. Why not add in Conjured Weapons like Skyrim has for Magicka users who wish to engage in a close-combat playstyle?
Also, don't tell me to use the Physical weapons because: (1) they're PHYSICAL (Stamina) based, (2) they don't restore Magicka resources, and (3) don't deal Magic Damage (can't weave in effective Light/Heavy attacks with abilities).
There could be a "Conjured Weapons" skill tree where the conjured weapons are treated like all other weapon skill trees with 5 active abilities, 5 passives, and an Ultimate. The weapon you'd equip would be a "Conjure Spell" for a certain type of weapon (i.e. Dagger, Sword, Mace, etc.). When you unsheathe your weapon, you conjure your equipped spells. This is just a rough idea and I feel it could be polished into something feasible.
What do you guys think?
Guild wars 2 had this feature.It was called elemdntalist and It was amazing I really loved it,gave me the feel that Im a real mage who could literally conjure any weapon,From lighting spears to stone shields its was just super cool
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KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!Guild wars 2 had this feature.It was called elemdntalist and It was amazing I really loved it,gave me the feel that Im a real mage who could literally conjure any weapon,From lighting spears to stone shields its was just super cool
Wow, that sounds amazing!
Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!KingDuncanVII wrote: »In fact, I ran into more Thalmor wielding conjured weapons on Skyrim than I ran into a Mage with a Staff.
This is not Skyrim, however.
You are stating the painfully obvious, however...
Did you think the person you quoted thinks this is skyrim?
Yes they mentioned Skyrim, and said it should be like other ES games like Skyrim lol.1 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!Close combat play style is just that, a play style. I hardly ever play my magicka DPS characters from max range: DK needs to be close anyway for most of the good abilities, Templars also for their biting jabs, NBs for their Sap Essence. Sorcs could lay back but evn they benefit from being closer for the Elemental Blockade that every magicka DPS uses or should use even in boss fights.
Besides, haven't you noticed that many abilities already have a summoned weapon as part of their animation? Biting Jabs, Spear Shards, Lava Whip, etc.?
Stop, you're applying too much logic and ignoring what they are "actually" saying.
The entire purpose of this post is: I want to use 2 5 piece sets and a monster set, but if i do that i can't get magicka back from a heavy attack
Everything else is fluff.
This would also be solved if staffs counted as 2 set items, or a second item was added to be slotted with a staff (book, sword, whatever)
Well you almost got it...
But there is more to it as stam has all the option.
Go full def with SnB for cheap blocking AND get mag back on heavies.
Go full offense with the highest wep/spell damage AND get mag back on heavies.
I would give up a 5 pc bonus for either of those options but yeah your right, fair is fair, 5 5 2 set for mag weps should be an option too.
First off, magicka can go both easily. Regardless of weapons as we have Shields that take the damage for us, I have tanked vet dungeons and my pal has tanked vet trials with just his shields. All the while I am getting 18k dps lol the boss is on me I'm flinging out warbirds I have puncture his armor all while behind my shields.
All I want to say is do not act as if stamina has in anyway the flexibility of magicka. I can tank heal and dps without ever switching gears cause of shields. We get crazy heals just from doing damage.
Stamina is good but nowhere near as complete as magicka. Just because they have more weapon choices doesn't matter since only bow and dual wield matter in pve. Both magicka and stamina utilize sword and board skills. And 2 hander has been weak in PvE for a while and is being replaced in PvP aswell.2 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!CosmicSoul wrote: »CosmicSoul wrote: »KingDuncanVII wrote: »Stamina and Magicka are not meant to be mirrors. They meant to have their own flavor and feel. Conjured weapons that function like existing Maces, Daggers, and Swords don't do anything but try to make Magicka builds play like Stamina ones. I'm fine with new skill lines that branch out and give Magicka more weapon options, they to not just be a Magicka clone of Stamina weapons.
Remember that we are in the world of The Elder Scrolls. You do realize that what I'm talking about already exists within the world of TES, right? Conjured weapons isn't some new idea I thought of. I use Conjured Weapons for my Magicka build on Skyrim. If ESO considers itself a part of TES world, then why oppose something that has already been established in the world of TES?
It's not about mirroring, it's about being true to TES. Mages with Staves aren't the only type of Magic user in TES. Conjured weapons is a real thing.
TES is what the developers say it is. Throughout the history of game series there have been numerous retcon and lore changes to fit the current game. Hell ESO it's self is a massive lore retcon to fit the 3 faction alliance war.
An important thing to remember that separates ESO from other TES titles is the multiplayer aspect. When people say, "this isn't Skyrim", that's what they're talking about. And as such, since there isn't one central player, but rather many. Several prospectives need to be taken into account. This is why there needs to be a division between Magicka and Stamina. They need to be capable of accomplishing the same goals, but with different methods. It's the reason to play either. A differing game play approach. As such Magicka builds cannot be the do it all builds they are in the single player games.
Going with the 'make it feel like TES' is a subjective and feelings based argument. Numbers are ultimately the reason why Destro is used. Weaves with it make up for the difference in damage from Twinblade and Blunt passive, and Elemental Wall is too good to pass on. You need to make a case for a positive impact on gameplay to have a stronger argument.
Nothing stops a Staff from being used in melee range, no effectiveness is lost. The reason Stamina has Bow is because Staves can already be used at range. DW and 2H make up for the increased utility seen in Magicka skills. Put flatly, Magicka has utility across skills with Magicka cost with their being more of them. While Stamina has utility across weapon choice.
Just a note, I don't consider 1h&s to be a strictly Stamina weapon set. It straddles the line with both Magicka and Stamina builds using it across PVE and PVP. I consider special case scenario.
I think your trying a little to hard to disagree with this concept, just because they do not follow the same rules does not mean the majority are not asking for this clearly by the votes they are, and people made it clear how they can do this, and there is no flaw in this idea.
54 votes total is a miniscule part of the forum community. Which is but a faction of the total playerbase. A small sample of a small sample is hardly a mandate.
You'll need to do more work than calling me a 'try-hard' and declaring the idea to have no flaws. It's typical that the proponents of change have the onus to prove a need for said change. If you can't handle people disagreeing with the concept, whether it is vigorously or not. Perhaps the concept is not strong to endear a willing to come to it's defense.
And I hear people talk about it in game all the time but this is proof the majority in the forums want this, also stop being so defensive you really are trying a bit to hard to disagree with it and you cannot give one good example in how it is flawed, also I never acted like I could never handle anyone disagreeing lol stop making assumptions.
Perhaps read the thread, but I'll summarize.
For the weapons to work as a skill line only that summons weapons they would need to be toggle which take up the little space giving for a load out.
And as to making it feel like TES Conjured Weapons still used and scaled with Stamina without Mods.
Stamina and Magicka need to offer differing gameplay styles. More Magicka weapons might not be a bad thing, but they need to be different than just Stamina clones that scale on Magicka. Magicka has utility through amount of skills that are Magicka, while Stamina has utility through weapon choice.
Then again the forums are barely represented with such a small sample size, and not all players in game are on the forums. You personal experience talking to players in game is anecdotal as you can only interact with atiny portion of the actual playerbase at large.
But since you and a handful of others want it, presto instant majority. Sorry, that's not how math works.
I see this everyday on the forums. Everyone pulls numbers outta thin air and BAM it's a majority of a minority depending on whatever point they want to make.
Even if everyone on these forums agree it's still but a fraction of the player base. Then we can add in all the people who op has talked to and it's still but a fraction a small fraction.
However I do want a close range option just as bad as op but conjured weapons or a wand or what have you I want a melee option for my Mag sorc. Or atleast something not force pulse lol.
And alot of people I talk to agree therefore EVERYONE DOES. LOLOLOL1 -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!I wonder how many people saying no even primarily play a style where they are utilizing a close-range Magicka build. I do and I just always feel like I'm at a disadvantage because my DPS isn't there. I always have to resort back to being a ranger Magicka DPS with the Destro Staff for the most DPS. I'm a NB and I feel like I'm playing like a Sorc at times (I don't enjoy Sorc playstyle).Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
EldritchPenguin✭✭✭✭✭
You say that like a Destro staff is completely unusable in melee. I can weave staff attacks even if I'm standing basically in melee range. In fact, since I play a MagKnight, I lose basically all of my DPS if I try to fight at range.KingDuncanVII wrote: »I wonder how many people saying no even primarily play a style where they are utilizing a close-range Magicka build. I do and I just always feel like I'm at a disadvantage because my DPS isn't there. I always have to resort back to being a ranger Magicka DPS with the Destro Staff for the most DPS. I'm a NB and I feel like I'm playing like a Sorc at times (I don't enjoy Sorc playstyle).Lilelle Adlis - Dark Elf Dragonknight
Vaynothah Sailenar - Dark Elf Templar
Sherivah Telvanni - Dark Elf Sorcerer
Nephiah Telvanni - Dark Elf Nightblade0 -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!EldritchPenguin wrote: »You say that like a Destro staff is completely unusable in melee. I can weave staff attacks even if I'm standing basically in melee range. In fact, since I play a MagKnight, I lose basically all of my DPS if I try to fight at range.
What about sustain? Heavy Attack, Ability cancelation? You know how long Destro takes to charge a heavy attack. Try doing that in someone's face. The Destro is usable but isn't efficient.
Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
DragonBound✭✭✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!KingDuncanVII wrote: »I love being Magicka-based but I hate having to use Destro (Range Weapon) for pure Magicka DPS. Why not add in Conjured Weapons like Skyrim has for Magicka users who wish to engage in a close-combat playstyle?
Also, don't tell me to use the Physical weapons because: (1) they're PHYSICAL (Stamina) based, (2) they don't restore Magicka resources, and (3) don't deal Magic Damage (can't weave in effective Light/Heavy attacks with abilities).
There could be a "Conjured Weapons" skill tree where the conjured weapons are treated like all other weapon skill trees with 5 active abilities, 5 passives, and an Ultimate. The weapon you'd equip would be a "Conjure Spell" for a certain type of weapon (i.e. Dagger, Sword, Mace, etc.). When you unsheathe your weapon, you conjure your equipped spells. This is just a rough idea and I feel it could be polished into something feasible.
What do you guys think?
Guild wars 2 had this feature.It was called elemdntalist and It was amazing I really loved it,gave me the feel that Im a real mage who could literally conjure any weapon,From lighting spears to stone shields its was just super cool
Until it became completely useless, so many useless utlity skill lines in guild wars 2, they still have not updated the damage with conjured weapons.0 -
dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I have a different idea... (Please Explain)lucky_Sage wrote: »easiest way would be to change something in the mages guild skill line of a skill no one uses and make it convert stam weapons to scale from spell damage.
I've said something in a magdk post about changing molten armaments to convert stam weapons to magicka but guess would be unfair for magblades and magplars who also have melee abilities.
(both of those above would not convert the abilities to spell damage just have and light attacks and give magicka back with attacks instead of stam)
or a spell sword skill line using a one handed sword but most challenging to make.
maybe make where the element of the enchant used on sword is the element of attacks from abilities.
this would win my vote.PLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... (Please Explain)KingDuncanVII wrote: »EldritchPenguin wrote: »You say that like a Destro staff is completely unusable in melee. I can weave staff attacks even if I'm standing basically in melee range. In fact, since I play a MagKnight, I lose basically all of my DPS if I try to fight at range.
What about sustain? Heavy Attack, Ability cancelation? You know how long Destro takes to charge a heavy attack. Try doing that in someone's face. The Destro is usable but isn't efficient.
Sounds a lot like you're talking about PVP more than PVE. You have to approach PVP differently than most PVE. You build for sustain if you need it, with gear and skills. Not just using heavy attacks. Which you don't do in an opponent's face with a destro staff unless you've CC'd them.1 -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!Sounds a lot like you're talking about PVP more than PVE. You have to approach PVP differently than most PVE. You build for sustain if you need it, with gear and skills. Not just using heavy attacks. Which you don't do in an opponent's face with a destro staff unless you've CC'd them.
Exactly. You don't do that with a Destro staff, so why not give magicka people a weapon that allows them to do that like Stamina users have? We only have ONE DPS weapon! Do you not think that's just unfair? You're just proving my point. Whether I'm talking about PvP or PvE, it still applies. We (Magicka users) HAVE TO approach it differently because it's our ONLY OPTION to deal decent Magic damage on top of our other abilities and sustain with restoring Magicka on Heavy Attacks.
Edited by KingDuncanVII on December 1, 2016 3:23PMPlaystation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
UppGRAYxDD✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes! Do this immediately!Something needs to be done cause duel wield weaving on a magicka melee build hits like a wet noodle, almost 1/3 of a light attack from a stam character which puts a mag character at a disadvantage in the animation canceling dps department"Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."1 -
KingDuncanVII✭✭✭Yes! Do this immediately!UppGRAYxDD wrote: »Something needs to be done cause duel wield weaving on a magicka melee build hits like a wet noodle, almost 1/3 of a light attack from a stam character which puts a mag character at a disadvantage in the animation canceling dps department
This is exactly my point. It blows my mind that people (who probably don't want to play a close-combat magicka style) completely disregard the simple truths. As a magicka user, how can you be okay with only one magicka DPS weapon? When stamina users get four?Playstation 4 - North American Server - Aldmeri Dominion - Champion Rank 430
• Magicka Altmer Nightblade | - Champion
• Magicka Regaurd Templar | - Champion
• Stamina Khajiit Nightblade | - Champion0 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... (Please Explain)KingDuncanVII wrote: »Sounds a lot like you're talking about PVP more than PVE. You have to approach PVP differently than most PVE. You build for sustain if you need it, with gear and skills. Not just using heavy attacks. Which you don't do in an opponent's face with a destro staff unless you've CC'd them.
Exactly. You don't do that with a Destro staff, so why not give magicka people a weapon that allows them to do that like Stamina users have? We only have ONE DPS weapon! Do you not think that's just unfair? You're just proving my point. Whether I'm talking about PvP or PvE, it still applies. We (Magicka users) HAVE TO approach it differently because it's our ONLY OPTION to deal decent Magic damage on top of our other abilities and sustain with restoring Magicka on Heavy Attacks.
Stamina has fewer skills which cost Stamina so they have more weapons. Magicka has fewer weapons because more skills are Magicka. It's not a simple situation of they have two cookies and I have one, no fair. Would you like to give up more Magicka class morphs in exchange for another Magicka weapon skill line?
If the time to kill is fast enough, less sustain is needed. This is true in both PVE and PVP. Then all builds approach PVP and PVE differently, not just Magicka. The circumstances require different things. Also all builds have to trade damage for sustain and vice versa, but heavy attacks are not the only option for sustain. Finally not all Magicka builds use Destro, some elect to use DW for raw damage in both PVE and PVP, and others 1H&S for defensive utility in PVP. So with all of that said I'm having trouble picturing this scenario in which you need heavy attacks to sustain.
Nothing stops Destro from being used in CQC. Destro is both a ranged and melee weapon rolled into one. Maybe it doesn't give you the feeling of being a Magicka infused sword wielding Mage, but feeling does not negate function.
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