Kolache wrote: »

How many western mmos would anyone be able to count as "successful", let alone "thriving?"

You could make a drinking game out of trying to name all the mmos that have come and gone before their time. That makes easy pickins for examples to state why previous failures justify your predictions for ESO's future.

In truth you really have no idea why they ultimately failed--it's just guessing. If you're actually that great with predictions I hope you're trading, forecasting weather, or working in vegas.

As far as I'm concerned, if ESO went offline next year and crates got a lot of attention between now and then there's no way you'd be able to definitely say what caused it's decline. Correction, you might "say" it, but that doesn't mean it would be true.

Personally, I've never quit a game because of crown crate equivalents or what I perceived to be their ripple effects. That's just my opinion though--I'm not going to make predictions off that just because I'm one of a generation of gamers that happens to have played tons of mmos. Lol credentials

Kendaric wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

WoW is just about the only game in this genre that doesn't have RNG boxes and they let you DIRECTLY buy gold and character boosts.

That game is also iconic and a great example of how business models adapt, over time, to market changes. Why don't we all see how this pans out before all this "Resistance!" hyperbole? But we know! PTS has revealed all! Has it? I'm content waiting to see the info article that gets posted as well as what these things are like live before losing all sanity.

If it's really terrible, the boxes will be overhauled and/ or go away. Market always dictates, and corrects, the result. I suspect, though, that as usual the echo chamber of these forums won't be be affected, nor affect the outcome at all.

All this stress isn't good for anyone and there are honestly more important events to focus your concern upon.

ZOS doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to changing things from PTS to live. Will it be different this time? It's possible, but I wouldn't count on it.
Most likely the only thing to have changed will be that we're allowed to turn consumables into gems as they announced that on PTS. And I wouldn't count on any changes to make it more consumer-friendly later on either.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Turning unwanted consumables into gems sounds pretty huge. Why aren't we pestering them for info on that instead of this egregious mess of a thread? That change, alone, would be fantastic.

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Kendaric wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

WoW is just about the only game in this genre that doesn't have RNG boxes and they let you DIRECTLY buy gold and character boosts.

That game is also iconic and a great example of how business models adapt, over time, to market changes. Why don't we all see how this pans out before all this "Resistance!" hyperbole? But we know! PTS has revealed all! Has it? I'm content waiting to see the info article that gets posted as well as what these things are like live before losing all sanity.

If it's really terrible, the boxes will be overhauled and/ or go away. Market always dictates, and corrects, the result. I suspect, though, that as usual the echo chamber of these forums won't be be affected, nor affect the outcome at all.

All this stress isn't good for anyone and there are honestly more important events to focus your concern upon.

ZOS doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to changing things from PTS to live. Will it be different this time? It's possible, but I wouldn't count on it.
Most likely the only thing to have changed will be that we're allowed to turn consumables into gems as they announced that on PTS. And I wouldn't count on any changes to make it more consumer-friendly later on either.

Turning unwanted consumables into gems sounds pretty huge. Why aren't we pestering them for info on that instead of this egregious mess of a thread? That change, alone, would be fantastic.

Dazza1968 wrote: »

I cant help but wonder just how many forum posters that have said not buying crates will actually stick to it lol.

Kolache wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

How many western mmos would anyone be able to count as "successful", let alone "thriving?"

You could make a drinking game out of trying to name all the mmos that have come and gone before their time. That makes easy pickins for examples to state why previous failures justify your predictions for ESO's future.

In truth you really have no idea why they ultimately failed--it's just guessing. If you're actually that great with predictions I hope you're trading, forecasting weather, or working in vegas.

As far as I'm concerned, if ESO went offline next year and crates got a lot of attention between now and then there's no way you'd be able to definitely say what caused it's decline. Correction, you might "say" it, but that doesn't mean it would be true.

Personally, I've never quit a game because of crown crate equivalents or what I perceived to be their ripple effects. That's just my opinion though--I'm not going to make predictions off that just because I'm one of a generation of gamers that happens to have played tons of mmos. Lol credentials

What we are doing is finding the common denominator. It is easy after you do a little digging on the history of a certain person in MMOs, how that person usually operates, what happened in these MMOs and draw a conclusion from that.

But you can ignore all the information available and rule it out as "unrelated" and as "mere guessing" if you wish. The truth is that the gaming market only reached the point where it is now, with so many consumer-unfriendly practices, because we allowed it to happen. We the costumers who refused to see the big picture, ignored the pattern and kept quiet.

Yes, "we". I did the same as you did before, too, in other MMOs, but I am not about to do the same here.

Edit: By the way, no, I am not blaming that one person for this. Her specialization only exists because MMOs got to this point, and because this kind of strategy was enabled by the costumers. She is hired to do this, she isn't doing something without the rest of the team knowing or secretly sabotaging any game.

I stopped playing SWTOR because the content became laughably trivial--I didn't even bother finishing content because it was too easy.

I stopped playing GW2 because I hated heart of thorns. I didn't like class balance with a focus on elite specs and trinity roles in raiding.

I stopped playing Archeage because I got annoyed by the class balance in pvp and the way housing was handled.

In each of these examples someone is out there citing my departure's contribution to a mmos decline because of an increase in focus on cash shops. I'm sure people did quit because of cash shops/rng, but I'd argue that if they were absolutely in love with the mmo otherwise that they would have stuck it out.

Who knows though? All you know is how you feel and the likely like-minded people that you play with. Not exactly an objective sample from the broad spectrum of experiences and opinions.

Abeille wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Kolache wrote: »

How many western mmos would anyone be able to count as "successful", let alone "thriving?"

You could make a drinking game out of trying to name all the mmos that have come and gone before their time. That makes easy pickins for examples to state why previous failures justify your predictions for ESO's future.

In truth you really have no idea why they ultimately failed--it's just guessing. If you're actually that great with predictions I hope you're trading, forecasting weather, or working in vegas.

As far as I'm concerned, if ESO went offline next year and crates got a lot of attention between now and then there's no way you'd be able to definitely say what caused it's decline. Correction, you might "say" it, but that doesn't mean it would be true.

Personally, I've never quit a game because of crown crate equivalents or what I perceived to be their ripple effects. That's just my opinion though--I'm not going to make predictions off that just because I'm one of a generation of gamers that happens to have played tons of mmos. Lol credentials

What we are doing is finding the common denominator. It is easy after you do a little digging on the history of a certain person in MMOs, how that person usually operates, what happened in these MMOs and draw a conclusion from that.

But you can ignore all the information available and rule it out as "unrelated" and as "mere guessing" if you wish. The truth is that the gaming market only reached the point where it is now, with so many consumer-unfriendly practices, because we allowed it to happen. We the costumers who refused to see the big picture, ignored the pattern and kept quiet.

Yes, "we". I did the same as you did before, too, in other MMOs, but I am not about to do the same here.

Edit: By the way, no, I am not blaming that one person for this. Her specialization only exists because MMOs got to this point, and because this kind of strategy was enabled by the costumers. She is hired to do this, she isn't doing something without the rest of the team knowing or secretly sabotaging any game.

I stopped playing SWTOR because the content became laughably trivial--I didn't even bother finishing content because it was too easy.

I stopped playing GW2 because I hated heart of thorns. I didn't like class balance with a focus on elite specs and trinity roles in raiding.

I stopped playing Archeage because I got annoyed by the class balance in pvp and the way housing was handled.

In each of these examples someone is out there citing my departure's contribution to a mmos decline because of an increase in focus on cash shops. I'm sure people did quit because of cash shops/rng, but I'd argue that if they were absolutely in love with the mmo otherwise that they would have stuck it out.

Who knows though? All you know is how you feel and the likely like-minded people that you play with. Not exactly an objective sample from the broad spectrum of experiences and opinions.

I understand perfectly.

I quit MMOs when they start lacking content on the story department. This will be especially harmful to me in ESO, more than in other MMOs, because in ESO I unfortunately do not have any other reason to stay other than for the story, because I find it so much better made than any other aspect of the game. I don't mean only the main story (which saw no progress since Orsinium), of course, my favourite character of all time is Elam Drals, who has nothing to do with the main story. Characters are so important to me, too.

I'll tell you why I left GW2. I absolutely despised the story. It was cheesy, it used the same kind of plot point to evoke cheep "ow my feels" reactions multiple times throughout it (something made worse with Heart of Thorns). ANet made a good game, but they are awful story tellers, unfortunately.

ESO, on the other hand, has amazing story telling, amazing characters, amazing voice acting, and I get showered by so much lore all the time and it is so fantastic, I love it so much!

And I am dead scared that this part of the game that is absolutely essential for me to feel any enjoyment while player will suffer once they shift their focus. Because I am well aware that this that I love so much is really expensive to develop, much more expensive than recolors to put in Crown Crates (I'm saying recolors because many of the crate exclusives in the PTS were mere recolors, like the Red Pit Wolf, and not entirely new models).

lordrichter wrote: »

Kildayen wrote: »

Tonight I purchased four 5500 crown packs while they were on sale. I now have a total of 52,950 crowns to spend. I did this NOT knowing that crown crates would be released this week. I just wanted to buy the crowns at a discounted price so I could have a bulk amount and use them for whatever in the future. Maybe upgrade horses on new toons, maybe do a few race changes, whatever.

I do the same thing, and I have lots of Crowns, as well. Even on sale, they are too valuable to be wasted on the ZOS RNG, so I do not intend to use them on Crown Crates. My perspective on this is that the Crown Crates are just throwing Crowns away. To me, it is like pressing a "Delete 400 Crowns" button.

Kendaric wrote: »

Unless they changed it from how it was on PTS, which is possible of course, we know how the crates work. My main gripe with the scam crates is and has always been that I'll end up with items I don't want in my collection and can't get rid of.

They sort of hinted that you might be able to trade in anything for Gems. We don't know to what degree they will do this, but we will likely find out today. As I have said earlier, they cannot offer too many Gems for this or people will collect them too fast and the APEX mounts will sell for too cheap. My gut instinct says that Bethesda wants a certain amount of Crowns spent, like something in the 5000-8000 Crown range. They know that we would complain, loudly, if they just sold it for that outright, but if y'all pay for it in 400 Crown increments, and collect your Gems while you do it, you may not notice how much you are actually spending.

On top of that, collecting Gems is a new game to play. People can collect Gems in advance of something they want, so they can just buy it outright. The RNG Crates, at this point, become nothing but random Gem generators. You put in 400 Crowns and out pops a random number of Gems. When people start bragging about how many Gems they have, we will see the full purpose of the Gems. It isn't just a way to compensate players for duplicate, or unwanted items, it is a game unto itself that generates revenue for the studio.

Not that this bothers me. What bothers me is the effect this has on the rest of the game, game development, and the future. If it becomes more important to keep people buying Crown Crates and playing the Gem Game than it is to create and release content for the Game, ESO is done.

GrumpyMuffin wrote: »

Back on topc....I've a feeling that the crates will kill themselves far faster than any protest on here. We just need a good number of people to post how stupidly low the drop rates are, how much they have spent and what little they have to show for it- - can't beat good old empirical data -- This will put more people off buying them than any posts we make about should they be allowed etc. We've had discussions about drop rates before, but that was with 'fake' money on the PTS. The mood will change a lot when it is real money people have worked hard for going down the drain.

I doubt that this will really work. You can have 10 people in here complaining about how much they dropped on Crown Crates without getting anything useful, then one person will come along and say "APEX MOUNT, FIRST CRATE" and people will run off the to Store to buy them. A common human behavior. People can ignore the negative reality and focus on only the possibility of a positive reward. This is why lottery tickets sell so well. For all intents and purposes, no single individual will win the Lottery, yet they still buy the tickets.

Darkstorne wrote: »

And if empirical data is your thing, just look at what gambling crates did for SWTOR's income. In 2013 that game's equivalent of Crown Crates helped rake in $139 million. It's one of the most financially successful MMOs on the market today. In the western market, only WoW makes more money than SWTOR.

The ESO Crown Crates will not be that successful. Not until ZOS wakes up and puts P2W items in the Crates so that these things are no longer optional for a certain level of play. Yes, I do think they will do this. Maybe not right away, but there will likely come a point where they decide to do it. They will decide that this isn't that bad, that if you spend 2 or 3 years playing the game, you will get the same stuff, anyway. It is just a convenience. All the hip MMOs do it. It is just a game, can't harm anything. Firor's fortune cookie told him to do it. Whatever the excuse, they will find it.

The big question is whether there will be enough revenue, after expenses and profit goals, to actually benefit the game? Will the revenue allocated for ESO from them exceed the cost of keeping people buying the Crates? Will this make ESO a better game, or will this revenue just be spent on the next game?

Panth141 wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

@Cazzy This has to have been one of the most impressive threads ever on the forums, not just in how quickly it has grown but the number of issues that are covered and the obvious success in getting a response from Gina.

There have been less troll posts than I expected, so to rectify that

Nope it is still Pocalunek. Yes it is moving towards that time of the afternoon here ...

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

@SantieClaws

Does Pocalunek have some meaning I don't know of?! Google translate tells me that it's the Polish word for 'kiss'?

Recremen wrote: »

*Edit: though I guess, for the sake of fairness, if it turns out there IS a guarantee that you can get what you want in a fixed price range, then I will HIGHLY TENTATIVELY back off some of my rage about it.

Panth141 wrote: »

SantieClaws wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

@Cazzy This has to have been one of the most impressive threads ever on the forums, not just in how quickly it has grown but the number of issues that are covered and the obvious success in getting a response from Gina.

There have been less troll posts than I expected, so to rectify that

Nope it is still Pocalunek. Yes it is moving towards that time of the afternoon here ...

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

@SantieClaws

Does Pocalunek have some meaning I don't know of?! Google translate tells me that it's the Polish word for 'kiss'?

Yuls wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Turning unwanted consumables into gems sounds pretty huge. Why aren't we pestering them for info on that instead of this egregious mess of a thread? That change, alone, would be fantastic.

Here's the pts comment
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3384769/#Comment_3384769