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New changes to Magicka
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Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's not heavy armor that's the problem. It's the fact that you can now very easily pair heavy armour with strong offensive sets because everything drops in jewelry and weapons now. You use to not be able to do that.
They also added a bunch of heavy armor sets that are offensive in nature, of which there were very few of before.
Wrath is sort of the cherry on top, and really not needed.
Put all these together and you have the reason why heavy is very good right now in PvP.
Thank you, this right here. Heavy in it's self is not OP hence why most people don't wear it. People are 'tanky' because Sword n Board blocking and High healing, it has nothing to do with heavy armor.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Argues amount is what most are using in pvp.
Then shows us amount is higher than the max achievable by a bit...
Wow fail argument.
I would agree with the other guy and say most MOST! are around 10-15k pen in pvp using heavy.
The truth must hurt huh? Well it works in your favor, if you're really have problems with heavy Armor then stack spell pen that high and laugh at the naked heavy armour user. You're welcome.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Not a single build in PvP is running all that stuff. That's PvE calculations.
Try harder.
Edit: I'll disregard the fact that your calculations are awfully wrong.
So no pvp build uses sharpened staves, and in LA? That's cool don't cry about heavy armor being OP when you have all the Pen you need to ignore it.
Also are you going to do the calculations or just act like you know it all? Magicka users in a nut shell lol. You sound woefully ignorant.
I never said anything about sharpened or light armor. But crushing enchant, and what magicks build is running major breech from the destro skill line? Probably only some random scrubs. Idk at what level you play, but no good player runs elemental drain in PvP.
Then, no sane person would ever put 100 points into the cp pen. Why would they, they get more dg from putting more points into elemental/mighty.
Then, what makes you think destro gives 6.6k pen? Here is the passive: allow your destruction staff spells to ignore 5/10% of an enemies spell resistance. Last time I checked no enemies in PvP had 66k spell reistance. That was in 1.6 where we could stack nirn. Not possible anymore.
Your calculations are crap, your argument is crap, and you have simply no idea about PvP after I read all the crap you are piosting here.Susano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Not a single build in PvP is running all that stuff. That's PvE calculations.
Try harder.
Edit: I'll disregard the fact that your calculations are awfully wrong.
So no pvp build uses sharpened staves, and in LA? That's cool don't cry about heavy armor being OP when you have all the Pen you need to ignore it.
Also are you going to do the calculations or just act like you know it all? Magicka users in a nut shell lol. You sound woefully ignorant.
I never said anything about sharpened or light armor. But crushing enchant, and what magicks build is running major breech from the destro skill line? Probably only some random scrubs. Idk at what level you play, but no good player runs elemental drain in PvP.
Then, no sane person would ever put 100 points into the cp pen. Why would they, they get more dg from putting more points into elemental/mighty.
Then, what makes you think destro gives 6.6k pen? Here is the passive: allow your destruction staff spells to ignore 5/10% of an enemies spell resistance. Last time I checked no enemies in PvP had 66k spell reistance. That was in 1.6 where we could stack nirn. Not possible anymore.
Your calculations are crap, your argument is crap, and you have simply no idea about PvP after I read all the crap you are piosting here.
Are you butt hurt? Don't be you should be thankful you now know that you can get that much spell pen, good luck against heavy builds.
Also you're wrong all you need is 45 pts into spell erosion or piercing to get 2.5K pen keep up the ignorance.Edited by Anti_Virus on November 17, 2016 10:25PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Argues amount is what most are using in pvp.
Then shows us amount is higher than the max achievable by a bit...
Wow fail argument.
I would agree with the other guy and say most MOST! are around 10-15k pen in pvp using heavy.
The truth must hurt huh? Well it works in your favor, if you're really have problems with heavy Armor then stack spell pen that high and laugh at the naked heavy armour user. You're welcome.
Why are you argueing with me about things i did not say?
Why would the truth hurt me when i pointed it out for you?1 -
Wollust✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Not a single build in PvP is running all that stuff. That's PvE calculations.
Try harder.
Edit: I'll disregard the fact that your calculations are awfully wrong.
So no pvp build uses sharpened staves, and in LA? That's cool don't cry about heavy armor being OP when you have all the Pen you need to ignore it.
Also are you going to do the calculations or just act like you know it all? Magicka users in a nut shell lol. You sound woefully ignorant.
I never said anything about sharpened or light armor. But crushing enchant, and what magicks build is running major breech from the destro skill line? Probably only some random scrubs. Idk at what level you play, but no good player runs elemental drain in PvP.
Then, no sane person would ever put 100 points into the cp pen. Why would they, they get more dg from putting more points into elemental/mighty.
Then, what makes you think destro gives 6.6k pen? Here is the passive: allow your destruction staff spells to ignore 5/10% of an enemies spell resistance. Last time I checked no enemies in PvP had 66k spell reistance. That was in 1.6 where we could stack nirn. Not possible anymore.
Your calculations are crap, your argument is crap, and you have simply no idea about PvP after I read all the crap you are piosting here.
Are you butt hurt? Don't be you should be thankful you now know that you can get that much spell pen, good luck against heavy builds.
Also you're wrong all you need is 45 pts into spell erosion or piercing to get 2.5K pen keep up the ignorance.
You are just the generic biased player that will always deny that stuff is overperforming if it's the stuff they are using.
Good thanks for the info, I'd never put points in there so I don't know the exact values. Still not as good as mighty and elemental.
Oh and btw, I play stam and magicks, light, medium and heavy armor.
You said most players run 25k pen, that's simply wrong. It's not about if it's possible to get 25k pen. That is defnitely possible.
Lying to support your argument is bad.Susano'o
Zerg Squad2 -
Dubhliam✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Please, god make magicka tanks viable.
Like, truely viable.
You, Sir, have no idea what you are talking about.2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Not a single build in PvP is running all that stuff. That's PvE calculations.
Try harder.
Edit: I'll disregard the fact that your calculations are awfully wrong.
So no pvp build uses sharpened staves, and in LA? That's cool don't cry about heavy armor being OP when you have all the Pen you need to ignore it.
Also are you going to do the calculations or just act like you know it all? Magicka users in a nut shell lol. You sound woefully ignorant.
I never said anything about sharpened or light armor. But crushing enchant, and what magicks build is running major breech from the destro skill line? Probably only some random scrubs. Idk at what level you play, but no good player runs elemental drain in PvP.
Then, no sane person would ever put 100 points into the cp pen. Why would they, they get more dg from putting more points into elemental/mighty.
Then, what makes you think destro gives 6.6k pen? Here is the passive: allow your destruction staff spells to ignore 5/10% of an enemies spell resistance. Last time I checked no enemies in PvP had 66k spell reistance. That was in 1.6 where we could stack nirn. Not possible anymore.
Your calculations are crap, your argument is crap, and you have simply no idea about PvP after I read all the crap you are piosting here.
Are you butt hurt? Don't be you should be thankful you now know that you can get that much spell pen, good luck against heavy builds.
Also you're wrong all you need is 45 pts into spell erosion or piercing to get 2.5K pen keep up the ignorance.
You are just the generic biased player that will always deny that stuff is overperforming if it's the stuff they are using.
Good thanks for the info, I'd never put points in there so I don't know the exact values. Still not as good as mighty and elemental.
Oh and btw, I play stam and magicks, light, medium and heavy armor.
You said most players run 25k pen, that's simply wrong. It's not about if it's possible to get 25k pen. That is defnitely possible.
Lying to support your argument is bad.
You literally said earlier that it isn't possible, denied my math even though it's right and haven't provided any math of your own, now you agree lol btw how am I lying? What did I lie about?
And what is overperforming? If it's some heavy armor how? And what would you to if you had the power to 'balance' it? Some of you guys in the magic community just want the glory days back of elder robes online.
Didn't mean to trigger anyone but heavy armor it's self is not OP( sets I can agree) and is the least used I have Zos data to back that up do you?Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 12:11AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Argues amount is what most are using in pvp.
Then shows us amount is higher than the max achievable by a bit...
Wow fail argument.
I would agree with the other guy and say most MOST! are around 10-15k pen in pvp using heavy.
The truth must hurt huh? Well it works in your favor, if you're really have problems with heavy Armor then stack spell pen that high and laugh at the naked heavy armour user. You're welcome.
Why are you argueing with me about things i did not say?
Why would the truth hurt me when i pointed it out for you?
You just said that I'm lying and that the math is wrong which it isn't. It's possible maybe not practical, but if spell resistance is really a problem the you can stack it that high as of now.
For now let's focus on magicka balancing instead of heavy armor.Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 12:12AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Please, god make magicka tanks viable.
Like, truely viable.
You, Sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
Depends on which one, but mDK and mTemplar are viable magicka tanks( imo)Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Ron_Burgundy_79✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
I'm by no means great at math, but last time I checked 6600 is 10% of 66000. I highly doubt anyone is running 66k spell resist.
This is also assuming magic builds are running a destro staff and have access to major breach.
6,600 spell pen which is 10% you get it from destro staff passive called "penetrating magic" I didn't say 66K spell resistance.
If I'm correct the unit ration for the calculation is 660= 1% dmg mitigation. So 660 × 10% = 6600 which is 10% dmg mitigation if you had 6600 spell resistance while 6600 spell pen is 10%
Penetrating magic:
Allows your destructions staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's spell resistance.
Light armor enemy with 10k spell resist would result in 1k spell pen.
Heavy armor enemy with 30k spell resistance would result in 3k spell pen.
Edit: This spell penetration is only applied to destro staff skills.Edited by Ron_Burgundy_79 on November 17, 2016 11:12PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Please, god make magicka tanks viable.
Like, truely viable.
You, Sir, have no idea what you are talking about.
Depends on which one, but mDK and mTemplar are viable magicka tanks( imo)
DK is. Magicka templar is on a dungeon level. (At least the build I'm running. I'm sure you could adapt it for trials but I never have tried.)
Nightblade is viable in everything being the posterchild magicka tank, and sorc is...iffy. I've never seen a setup, so I wouldn't know.
But there's alot more to it than that for being viable across the board. For instance. You'd only ever take magicka DK or NB into Maw, and you would probs want Stam DK instead. (This is where my knowledge is admittedly iffy, I do not run trials, my computer cannot physically handle it. Then again, I know someone who can run fallout 4 on ultra who cannot run trials, so.)
But I'd like for them to have a bit more flavor to them, instead of 'block block block'. They have it allready but I'd like to see it expanded on and fleshed out. Let Stamina tanks be permablockers and let Magicka tanks be more rotation-based with active mitigation. I'd love it.
But I daresay this is geting off topic. Continue with the magicka ballance discussion, I'll just be over here observing.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on November 17, 2016 11:23PM2 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Argues amount is what most are using in pvp.
Then shows us amount is higher than the max achievable by a bit...
Wow fail argument.
I would agree with the other guy and say most MOST! are around 10-15k pen in pvp using heavy.
The truth must hurt huh? Well it works in your favor, if you're really have problems with heavy Armor then stack spell pen that high and laugh at the naked heavy armour user. You're welcome.
Why are you argueing with me about things i did not say?
Why would the truth hurt me when i pointed it out for you?
You just said that I'm lying and that the math is wrong which it isn't. It's possible maybe not practical, but if spell resistance is really a probelm the you can stack it that high as of now.
For now let's focus on magicka balancing instead of heavy armor.
No, i never accused you of lying. Try to keep track of who you are replying. The thread is there for you to reread when things become too hard for you to keep track of...0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
I'm by no means great at math, but last time I checked 6600 is 10% of 66000. I highly doubt anyone is running 66k spell resist.
This is also assuming magic builds are running a destro staff and have access to major breach.
6,600 spell pen which is 10% you get it from destro staff passive called "penetrating magic" I didn't say 66K spell resistance.
If I'm correct the unit ration for the calculation is 660= 1% dmg mitigation. So 660 × 10% = 6600 which is 10% dmg mitigation if you had 6600 spell resistance while 6600 spell pen is 10%
Penetrating magic:
Allows your destructions staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's spell resistance.
Light armor enemy with 10k spell resist would result in 1k spell pen.
Heavy armor enemy with 30k spell resistance would result in 3k spell pen.
Edit: This spell penetration is only applied to destro staff skills.
Yes, you are correct, but I calculated the rating and not the the percentage. My argument was that it's possible to reach about 25K pen, I'm not sure if the rating is calculated as in: example: 30K resistance - 6600 or just the percentages in your case if it were true, then the passive is only penetrating about 5.2%ish (3K pen) percent of the targets armor I don't play on PC anymore so you might be right.
Also you are right about it only appling to destro staff, but i've fought a lot of Valkyn skoria dot builds and usual people force pulse, wall of elements and destro ulti. Plus Valkyn procs
. Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 12:08AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
I'm by no means great at math, but last time I checked 6600 is 10% of 66000. I highly doubt anyone is running 66k spell resist.
This is also assuming magic builds are running a destro staff and have access to major breach.
6,600 spell pen which is 10% you get it from destro staff passive called "penetrating magic" I didn't say 66K spell resistance.
If I'm correct the unit ration for the calculation is 660= 1% dmg mitigation. So 660 × 10% = 6600 which is 10% dmg mitigation if you had 6600 spell resistance while 6600 spell pen is 10%
Penetrating magic:
Allows your destructions staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's spell resistance.
Light armor enemy with 10k spell resist would result in 1k spell pen.
Heavy armor enemy with 30k spell resistance would result in 3k spell pen.
Edit: This spell penetration is only applied to destro staff skills.
Yes, you are correct, but I calculated the rating and not the the percentage. My argument was that it's possible to reach about 25K pen, I'm not sure if the rating is calculated as in: example: 30K resistance - 6600 or just the percentages in your case if it were true, then the passive is only penetrating about 5.2%ish (3K pen) percent of the targets armor I don't play on PC anymore so you might be right.
Also you are right about it only appling to destro staff, but i've fought a lot of Valkyn skoria dot builds and usual people force pulse, wall of elements and destro ulti. Plus Valkyn procs.
Your math is way off on that one. Theoretically even with Elemental drain up I can reach 16K.
Wall of elements is a horrible PVP skill. 'Extra penetration' from that would amount to 50 damage on each 700 damage DOT tick.
This whole argument is getting stupid. Your math was wrong in the third line by a long shot. I don't care if heavy armor is strong. It's fine. So is wrath.
Can we fix light armor now? We don't have that kind of protection or health, and we don't get wrath. We need damage, keep the glass. Hand us a cannon.0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
The destro staff passive only applies to destro staff abilities. In this case, force pulse!
Nobody uses the crusher enchant over weapon damage. I'm going to stop you right there.
Do magicka builds even have access to major breach? I don't.
= about 12K armor pen.
Um destro staff skill has major breech its a skill you should try it, and if you don't use Crusher enchant that's fine but don't complain about heavy having "sooo much armor" when you have options to nullify it.
Also the destro passive applies to force pulse elemental blockade and destro ultimate, just because YOU don't you them doen't mean the passive sucks
Slotting Elemental Drain means you're giving up a slot that could be used for healing, utility, etc. It's not like stamina, where your main DPS ability (Puncture, Surprise Attack) has this debuff built in. Also, virtually nobody uses Crushing Shock/Force Pulse outside of magic sorcs, and it took the destro ult to get many people to use destro staves at all, so that extra spell pen from destro passives might as not well exist.Edited by arkansas_ESO on November 18, 2016 1:59AMＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/171 -
Denyiir✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Mace 13k penetration? It gives 20% which for example on guy with 20k resistance would be 4k penetration...Edited by Denyiir on November 18, 2016 3:24AM0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭KennyFknPowers wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
Mace 13k penetration? It gives 20% which for example on guy with 20k resistance would be 4k penetration...
Sorry mustive been confusing. I converted the percentage into a rating. 660 × 20% = 13.2K physical pen.
So target mitigation - 13.2K physical pen (20%) in your case.
20K resistance( 30.4% dmg resistance) - 13.2K physical pen (20% pen) leaves you with 6800 resistance( 10.4% dmg mitigation) which is a ignoring 20% percent of a targets armor.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
The destro staff passive only applies to destro staff abilities. In this case, force pulse!
Nobody uses the crusher enchant over weapon damage. I'm going to stop you right there.
Do magicka builds even have access to major breach? I don't.
= about 12K armor pen.
Um destro staff skill has major breech its a skill you should try it, and if you don't use Crusher enchant that's fine but don't complain about heavy having "sooo much armor" when you have options to nullify it.
Also the destro passive applies to force pulse elemental blockade and destro ultimate, just because YOU don't you them doen't mean the passive sucks
Slotting Elemental Drain means you're giving up a slot that could be used for healing, utility, etc. It's not like stamina, where your main DPS ability (Puncture, Surprise Attack) has this debuff built in. Also, virtually nobody uses Crushing Shock/Force Pulse outside of magic sorcs, and it took the destro ult to get many people to use destro staves at all, so that extra spell pen from destro passives might as not well exist.
You're right but if you needed extra pen you could slot it and all other potental options it's definitely not practical but it works if you're willing to sacrifice, btw I didn't mean to get a hippity, just wanted to debunk the notion that heavy armor grants the most protection, which is doen't. Physical and spell resistance is irrelevant regardless of armor in the game since defence has a hard cap.
Penetration and Damage however does not.
Now that I've derailed the thread can we get back to magicka balance? Probably shouldn't have brought up heavy armorEdited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 6:14AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
I'm by no means great at math, but last time I checked 6600 is 10% of 66000. I highly doubt anyone is running 66k spell resist.
This is also assuming magic builds are running a destro staff and have access to major breach.
6,600 spell pen which is 10% you get it from destro staff passive called "penetrating magic" I didn't say 66K spell resistance.
If I'm correct the unit ration for the calculation is 660= 1% dmg mitigation. So 660 × 10% = 6600 which is 10% dmg mitigation if you had 6600 spell resistance while 6600 spell pen is 10%
Penetrating magic:
Allows your destructions staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's spell resistance.
Light armor enemy with 10k spell resist would result in 1k spell pen.
Heavy armor enemy with 30k spell resistance would result in 3k spell pen.
Edit: This spell penetration is only applied to destro staff skills.
Yes, you are correct, but I calculated the rating and not the the percentage. My argument was that it's possible to reach about 25K pen, I'm not sure if the rating is calculated as in: example: 30K resistance - 6600 or just the percentages in your case if it were true, then the passive is only penetrating about 5.2%ish (3K pen) percent of the targets armor I don't play on PC anymore so you might be right.
Also you are right about it only appling to destro staff, but i've fought a lot of Valkyn skoria dot builds and usual people force pulse, wall of elements and destro ulti. Plus Valkyn procs.
Your math is way off on that one. Theoretically even with Elemental drain up I can reach 16K.
Wall of elements is a horrible PVP skill. 'Extra penetration' from that would amount to 50 damage on each 700 damage DOT tick.
This whole argument is getting stupid. Your math was wrong in the third line by a long shot. I don't care if heavy armor is strong. It's fine. So is wrath.
Can we fix light armor now? We don't have that kind of protection or health, and we don't get wrath. We need damage, keep the glass. Hand us a cannon.
Always with the "math is wrong" care to 'fix' or just so
Say the same thing?
[Edit]
Also, Heavy doen't have protection been debunked, concentration > Wrath since it's always active and pen> dmg.
You can get more HP just by adding points but as of now its not effective, Mr. Wrobel said that he's working on making HP a more worthwile investment. Until then stack magicka and use three shields that you have( I assume you are a magicka sorc) its the greatest assist a magicka build can have, you don't have to wear impen, they stack, no magicka regen penalty while active, no cost increase when spammed, shoot if I had a stamina shield I would love the hell out of it.
Not saying magicka based builds don't need help but by attempting to nerf stamina based builds that are now able to compete since 1.6 from the start of the game ( elder robes online) to be in spite of or to be more powerful over stam builds is just messed up.
Remember when something is nerfed it's not because of players It's because Mr. Wrobel decided it needed an adjustment people can complain all day but it's up to him in his team to be the arbiters of balance and I believe he's trying his best. Your anger is misguided wrongly to the stamina community( and vice versa) creating more division.Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 6:29AMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Code2501✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »
Always with the "math is wrong" care to 'fix' or just soew the same thing?
You've been corrected several times already. You plainly dont know how many of the penetration effects work. In reality even if you specialise in penetration in all ways and have all possible buffs and debuffs running you're looking at about 20k pen total.
Additionally all of this is made irelevant by virtue of the false assertion that such a setup is what most plyers are running.
Finally, this entire chain of discussion is not even on topic.
Maybe contribute in a thread where you can stay on topic with real facts instead of living in a post-truth delusion.
Edited by Code2501 on November 18, 2016 6:32AM1 -
Attackopsn✭✭✭✭✭i just dont understand WHY a two handed sword gives more spell damage than a staff for magicka users, it doesnt make any sense
i so agree with u, same goes for DW, mages should be the strongest, bit stronger then other classes, in war i have seen Tanks that are way to OP like with that protection they should be able to win against 2-4 enemy's, well that was before summer, pvp is so broken that i don't even care anymore (unless they have fixed), when i get back in game next year i no longer care about builds, i do may way & if it sucks in pvp then F PVP, well i care about builds only to the lvl it hurts pve, as long it doesn't hurt pve its fine, i started a pause from game sins before summer, was it spring, hard to remember them in eng sometimes, that's why i made 1 high elf magic NB DW with daggers cause that seems best for pvp, once i so what life leach did for NB with sword & shield heavy armor, it was crazy, with out life leach i would have beaten that NB
the game should be like past ES games u get skills from guild, only weapon skills are with ur class + some class skills & class skills are only things different from previous ES games, skills like life leach & shadow cloak u get from thieves guild & spells from mages guild, or maybe no class skills at all, u get all from trainers
& the game currently relies to much on magic, all stam skills should have option to convert to magic & almost all magic skills should have option to convert to stam, except true spells, maybe stam spell don't make sense, & god way would be passive, also i have idea for a new thing, Blood Mage, all spells use HP, do it right & u have bad ass mage, & do it right i say to game team to cause if they mess up that skill tree it will be disaster
also why not make barrier spell for war, u need 4 mages for it to each corner of the keep, as long as mages cast it it drains mana, but its strategic spell, it delays defeat & that could make all the difference & keep war more interesting
So what you're saying is that not only is Nicki Minaj the zodiac killer but she is also Ted Cruz?ign: ATTACKO
PS4 NA
First NA Completion of VMoL Hard Mode0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭So the matAnti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
So you are right people can get their own high. But you are wrong on a few points.
First the destro staff passive is just 10% of the enemies total, so against a light armor user with 10k it would be 1k pen.
Second The mace is 20% pen also taken from the users current value, so that same light armor user with 10k would be 2k pen. Now a heavy armor user with 25k would be 5k pen and so on so forth.
Now in terms of putting points into pen passive in PvP. People do do this and penetration is better than weapon damage IF they are not shielded, as penetration doesn't affect shields such as hardened and the like.
Everyone should be running sharpened it's way too much dps to give up.
In duels many do run weakness to elements, but in open world it is more rare as you are fighting zergs and the like that it's a waste to put it on one guy while 7 more are there, but it is used.
So while your math is not necessarily wrong, for it to be true in a players case they would be at 66k armor, which would mean that even after you took off 25k they are still over cap so you have done nothing at all to reduce their survivability.
However a more realistic 25k armor rating would be taken down to
4+5.2+5.2+2.5+1.3+2.5 = 20.7 this is with weakness and crusher and the points in pen. Now is this set up going to be usual, maybe in duels but iffy in open world. But it's possible and the heavy armor user still has a little armor left against a magic user doing all this where medium and light would be totally armorless.
For stamina with the same 25k it would be
5.2+5.2+5+1.3+2.5= 19.2 or 21.2 with kragh.
Just remember you have to make the calculation based on their current armor values. But none of what you suggested about the importance of pen is wrong. Anf even if in open world you don't use weakness, you might have a sword and board user that uses puncture do you get it there.0 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Anti_Virus wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
The destro staff passive only applies to destro staff abilities. In this case, force pulse!
Nobody uses the crusher enchant over weapon damage. I'm going to stop you right there.
Do magicka builds even have access to major breach? I don't.
= about 12K armor pen.
Um destro staff skill has major breech its a skill you should try it, and if you don't use Crusher enchant that's fine but don't complain about heavy having "sooo much armor" when you have options to nullify it.
Also the destro passive applies to force pulse elemental blockade and destro ultimate, just because YOU don't you them doen't mean the passive sucks
Slotting Elemental Drain means you're giving up a slot that could be used for healing, utility, etc. It's not like stamina, where your main DPS ability (Puncture, Surprise Attack) has this debuff built in. Also, virtually nobody uses Crushing Shock/Force Pulse outside of magic sorcs, and it took the destro ult to get many people to use destro staves at all, so that extra spell pen from destro passives might as not well exist.
You're right but if you needed extra pen you could slot it and all other potental options it's definitely not practical but it works if you're willing to sacrifice, btw I didn't mean to get a hippity, just wanted to debunk the notion that heavy armor grants the most protection, which is doen't. Physical and spell resistance is irrelevant regardless of armor in the game since defence has a hard cap.
Penetration and Damage however does not.
Now that I've derailed the thread can we get back to magicka balance? Probably shouldn't have brought up heavy armor
"just wanted to debunk the notion that heavy armor grants the most protection"
What notion? It's a fact that heavy provides the most protection, that's the entire point of the skill line. As you said, you can get your spell or armor pen so high that you reduce somebody in heavy to 0 resists, but at that point you're sacrificing so much that it isn't really feasible.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/170 -
Sugram22✭✭✭Attackopsn wrote: »i just dont understand WHY a two handed sword gives more spell damage than a staff for magicka users, it doesnt make any sense
i so agree with u, same goes for DW, mages should be the strongest, bit stronger then other classes, in war i have seen Tanks that are way to OP like with that protection they should be able to win against 2-4 enemy's, well that was before summer, pvp is so broken that i don't even care anymore (unless they have fixed), when i get back in game next year i no longer care about builds, i do may way & if it sucks in pvp then F PVP, well i care about builds only to the lvl it hurts pve, as long it doesn't hurt pve its fine, i started a pause from game sins before summer, was it spring, hard to remember them in eng sometimes, that's why i made 1 high elf magic NB DW with daggers cause that seems best for pvp, once i so what life leach did for NB with sword & shield heavy armor, it was crazy, with out life leach i would have beaten that NB
the game should be like past ES games u get skills from guild, only weapon skills are with ur class + some class skills & class skills are only things different from previous ES games, skills like life leach & shadow cloak u get from thieves guild & spells from mages guild, or maybe no class skills at all, u get all from trainers
& the game currently relies to much on magic, all stam skills should have option to convert to magic & almost all magic skills should have option to convert to stam, except true spells, maybe stam spell don't make sense, & god way would be passive, also i have idea for a new thing, Blood Mage, all spells use HP, do it right & u have bad ass mage, & do it right i say to game team to cause if they mess up that skill tree it will be disaster
also why not make barrier spell for war, u need 4 mages for it to each corner of the keep, as long as mages cast it it drains mana, but its strategic spell, it delays defeat & that could make all the difference & keep war more interesting
So what you're saying is that not only is Nicki Minaj the zodiac killer but she is also Ted Cruz?
i have no idea about what u mean0 -
Naughty_Ryder✭✭✭
Fairies are invisible and inaudible like angels. But their magic sparkles in nature.
- I solemnly swear that I am up to no good.0 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »arkansas_ESO wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
The destro staff passive only applies to destro staff abilities. In this case, force pulse!
Nobody uses the crusher enchant over weapon damage. I'm going to stop you right there.
Do magicka builds even have access to major breach? I don't.
= about 12K armor pen.
Um destro staff skill has major breech its a skill you should try it, and if you don't use Crusher enchant that's fine but don't complain about heavy having "sooo much armor" when you have options to nullify it.
Also the destro passive applies to force pulse elemental blockade and destro ultimate, just because YOU don't you them doen't mean the passive sucks
Slotting Elemental Drain means you're giving up a slot that could be used for healing, utility, etc. It's not like stamina, where your main DPS ability (Puncture, Surprise Attack) has this debuff built in. Also, virtually nobody uses Crushing Shock/Force Pulse outside of magic sorcs, and it took the destro ult to get many people to use destro staves at all, so that extra spell pen from destro passives might as not well exist.
You're right but if you needed extra pen you could slot it and all other potental options it's definitely not practical but it works if you're willing to sacrifice, btw I didn't mean to get a hippity, just wanted to debunk the notion that heavy armor grants the most protection, which is doen't. Physical and spell resistance is irrelevant regardless of armor in the game since defence has a hard cap.
Penetration and Damage however does not.
Now that I've derailed the thread can we get back to magicka balance? Probably shouldn't have brought up heavy armor
"just wanted to debunk the notion that heavy armor grants the most protection"
What notion? It's a fact that heavy provides the most protection, that's the entire point of the skill line. As you said, you can get your spell or armor pen so high that you reduce somebody in heavy to 0 resists, but at that point you're sacrificing so much that it isn't really feasible.
In theory it's supposed to but in practice it doen't, you can be just as tanky in LA while having spell pen, cost reduction, spell crit and regen.
Some Heavy passives don't really compare, health regen is useless. Constitution similarly to equivocation it's scaled on the amout of pieces you wear, if a full set its 1300 regen on hit, if 511 set up its less
The armor bonus of heavy is useless, there's a cap on mitigation but none on pen and dmg.
LA spell pen passive > Agility passive > Wrath passive. Pen will always be more valuable then raw dmg. The medium Armor one scales on your WD, the higher the better. Wrath only add 200 WD or SD it's not suppose to be on par dmg wise with the other two its there to give heavy a little boost in dmg, but heavy is protection first and dmg second. The best pasive heavy has is rapid mending but even that is rivaled by the resto stave passives which returns magicka 30% more on heavy attacks while also granting major mending for 2 secs.
The only way heavy armor can really be "OP" is when certain parameters are met.
-Are you a redguard?
-Got black rose?
-Got malubeth?
-Got a proc set on?
If these parameters are met then you have the heavy armor that you think is OP, without these sets heavy wouldn’t really be anything special it's why its the least use armor in pvp.
TL;DR:
Heavy is not anything special without certain sets
And it's protection can be easily ignored using penetration stacking. Heavy armor is in a good spot not too strong but not too weak.Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 10:10PMPower Wealth And Influence.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭cpuScientist wrote: »So the matAnti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »@Cinbri
Exactly heavy still isn't even all that good, hence why most people use LA/MA
- No cost reduction
- penetration makes resistances useless
- no magicka or stam regen
heavy armor is good defense that's the point of HA, regen & penetration u get with CP, my Templar has no regen issue & hes high elf to, DK dark elf & both magic users & quite good
No heavy has terrible defense most players run 25K physical and spell pen,
Also cost reduction>>>regen, I don't have sustain issues but it's much easier to sustain on a medium armor build due to that nice 21% stam cost reduction.
25k pen?
I call bs
Magicka
LA passive, 4K spell pen(7%)
Destro staff passive, 6600 pen ( 10%)
Sharpened, 5.2K pen( 8%)
Major breech 5.2k pen ( 8%)
CP (depends most get about 2.5k pen (4%)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen( 2%)
4K + 5.2K + 5.2K + 6600 + 2.5 (potentially) + 1.3K =
24,800( about close enough) 22,300( with out CP)
Stamina
Major fracture 5.2K pen
Sharpened 5.2K pen
Mace( DW or 2H) 13.2K pen
CP 2.5K pen ( potentially)
Crusher enchant 1.3K pen
5200+ 5200+ 13200 + 2500+ 1300=
24900 pen( with out CP) 27400 pen with CP.
Roughly 25K pen. Try harder.
[Edit] I didn't even add Kra'gas monster piece into the equation.
So you are right people can get their own high. But you are wrong on a few points.
First the destro staff passive is just 10% of the enemies total, so against a light armor user with 10k it would be 1k pen.
Second The mace is 20% pen also taken from the users current value, so that same light armor user with 10k would be 2k pen. Now a heavy armor user with 25k would be 5k pen and so on so forth.
Now in terms of putting points into pen passive in PvP. People do do this and penetration is better than weapon damage IF they are not shielded, as penetration doesn't affect shields such as hardened and the like.
Everyone should be running sharpened it's way too much dps to give up.
In duels many do run weakness to elements, but in open world it is more rare as you are fighting zergs and the like that it's a waste to put it on one guy while 7 more are there, but it is used.
So while your math is not necessarily wrong, for it to be true in a players case they would be at 66k armor, which would mean that even after you took off 25k they are still over cap so you have done nothing at all to reduce their survivability.
However a more realistic 25k armor rating would be taken down to
4+5.2+5.2+2.5+1.3+2.5 = 20.7 this is with weakness and crusher and the points in pen. Now is this set up going to be usual, maybe in duels but iffy in open world. But it's possible and the heavy armor user still has a little armor left against a magic user doing all this where medium and light would be totally armorless.
For stamina with the same 25k it would be
5.2+5.2+5+1.3+2.5= 19.2 or 21.2 with kragh.
Just remember you have to make the calculation based on their current armor values. But none of what you suggested about the importance of pen is wrong. Anf even if in open world you don't use weakness, you might have a sword and board user that uses puncture do you get it there.
I calculated the rating values and not the percentages, now 25K spell pen if converted to percentage is roughly 38% damage ignored, it's unclear to me if the percentage is subtracted by the value, example:
Skill says applies major fracture, 5280 ( 8% ignored) and the target has 25K physical resistance( 38%) 8% of 25K is 2000 pen( rounded) which is 3.1% in effectiveness instead of 8% and that doesn't match the description.
If it was 25K - 5280 you now have 19720 physical resistance( converted to percentage is 29.8% dmg mitigation) which is more accurate as 38% - 8% = 30% ( rounded up from 29.8%)
I don't think you can divide a percentage by a rating you have to convert the rating into percentage then subtract.
Or
subtract ratings then convert to percentage and compare.Edited by Anti_Virus on November 18, 2016 8:57PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
boom782✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I don't know whether or not magicka needs to be buffed or stam needs to be nerfed but the fact that a magicka sorc is not the top DPS in the game kinda blows my mind.
When I think of pure DPS I think magic sorcerers. Squishy as F but able to lay down far more damage than any other class. That is far from the case with the current situation of things.
Mag sorcs are ranged. Ranged should never, ever out-DPS melee.
In what world? I have played tons of MMO's and wizards/sorcerer are pure DPS and super squishy which is why they out damage everyone else. Whether it is a monk, paladin, rogue, or any other melee character, none of them compare or should compare to the DPS output of a pure magical wizard/sorc.Edited by boom782 on November 18, 2016 8:46PM2 -
Sugram22✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I don't know whether or not magicka needs to be buffed or stam needs to be nerfed but the fact that a magicka sorc is not the top DPS in the game kinda blows my mind.
When I think of pure DPS I think magic sorcerers. Squishy as F but able to lay down far more damage than any other class. That is far from the case with the current situation of things.
Mag sorcs are ranged. Ranged should never, ever out-DPS melee.
In what world? I have played tons of MMO's and wizards/sorcerer are pure DPS and super squishy which is why they out damage everyone else. Whether it is a monk, paladin, rogue, or any other melee character, none of them compare or should compare to the DPS output of a pure magical wizard/sorc.
ur so right, but mages currently are not like that, its out of balance cause they always power up 1 class & nerf another, they should take all classes & fix them with one go, if they continue like they have then it will never be fixedEdited by Sugram22 on November 18, 2016 9:18PM0