Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

OP, constructively, levels do matter. As was discussed earlier, I will gladly duel any level 20 or below on my bad toons. Why? Because leveling still grants power. Leveling unlocks skills, attributes, and hell at level 20 you cannot physically unlock certain skills.

While having the game scaled does create a sense of stagnant in the world, and I will admit that, so did Skyrim. All you need to do to prove leveling does give you power is try ICP with 4 level 10s. Go ahead, it's scaled.

You're talking about skill levels, I'm talking about actual leveling. You have to complete fighters guild quests to increase that skill, read books to increase mage guild, do DB/TG quests to increase those...

You don't need to be level X to unlock anything, you need your Skill Level to be X to unlock it. Every couple of CP points can result in new attribute point, same with skill points.


Levels are not needed anymore....

What does it matter then since you have to lvl skills regardless of your lvl? Again, Xp scrolls are there to make money for ZOS and they will not go away. Any discussion beyond that is just a waste of time.

Your argument was levels matter, now it's a question of whether levels matter or not.... Dude you just refuted your self, I'm not arguing XP scrolls aren't useful either, do you even read?

I didn't make any argument so what are you talking about? I'm saying this thread is pointless because it will not change and ZOS will continue to make money with that same method. Do you even read?

You think the leveling system is only relevant because ZOS makes money off XP potions....


sorry but that's not sound. XP potions would mostly benefit people trying to up their CP, and those who have Max CP would still use XP potions for new characters to level skill trees.

Wrong, CP are account-wide, levels are not. While it takes a long time to reach the CP limit it would still be an unprofitable one time thing so my point still stands.

You don't read clearly. I never implied in the slightest way CP was not cross account, in fact I implied that very thing by mentioning those with "Max CP would still use XP potions for new characters to level skill trees".

Your point being having levels makes people buy XP potions does not stand on the basis of having CP from start to finish, and those who are already maxed out on CP still need the XP potions to level up the skill trees for their new characters.

I do read clearly but as someone who would never even consider buying XP scrolls and finding the lvl up of skills fairly easy I just don't think that's nearly enough for ZOS. You made this thread to avoid the pointless chore of lvling up... no matter how you word it, it just goes back to ZOS wanting money for this exact thing.

Okay so listen, your opinion matters to a degree just like everyone elses. But when you're trying to refute my thread using anecdotal arguments I'm not going to take what you have to say seriously. You're just making assumptions that are a reflection of your own psychological projection. I made this thread to bring awareness to the fact levels are no longer relevant in any sense. All you have at the core of your statements is ZOS making a profit off flipping XP scrolls. I refuted this clearly and constructively in multiple posts. Now with that being said, please stop trashing my thread. Thanks bye.

I was talking about ZOS and the reality of their business model. There was no opinion, nothing of what I said has to do with me or "my psychological projections" and throwing around with words like that doesn't really help you either if they're not making any sense. You use some Jackie Chan meme before you even understood what I said so don't tell me anything about assumptions.

You will have to go through this work with every character you make, just accept it. That's not what I think or what I want, that's simply how ZOS works. "Bye."

I don't know why people whine about this ***. This is just a matter of 'Learn to Play'. It literally takes a day to lvl a character from 1-50. Even faster now during Witches Festival. SO NOOOOO! I rather have ZOS put some focus on more important stuff than whiny little kids asking for just way too much.

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

OP, constructively, levels do matter. As was discussed earlier, I will gladly duel any level 20 or below on my bad toons. Why? Because leveling still grants power. Leveling unlocks skills, attributes, and hell at level 20 you cannot physically unlock certain skills.

While having the game scaled does create a sense of stagnant in the world, and I will admit that, so did Skyrim. All you need to do to prove leveling does give you power is try ICP with 4 level 10s. Go ahead, it's scaled.

You're talking about skill levels, I'm talking about actual leveling. You have to complete fighters guild quests to increase that skill, read books to increase mage guild, do DB/TG quests to increase those...

You don't need to be level X to unlock anything, you need your Skill Level to be X to unlock it. Every couple of CP points can result in new attribute point, same with skill points.


Levels are not needed anymore....

What does it matter then since you have to lvl skills regardless of your lvl? Again, Xp scrolls are there to make money for ZOS and they will not go away. Any discussion beyond that is just a waste of time.

Your argument was levels matter, now it's a question of whether levels matter or not.... Dude you just refuted your self, I'm not arguing XP scrolls aren't useful either, do you even read?

I didn't make any argument so what are you talking about? I'm saying this thread is pointless because it will not change and ZOS will continue to make money with that same method. Do you even read?

You think the leveling system is only relevant because ZOS makes money off XP potions....


sorry but that's not sound. XP potions would mostly benefit people trying to up their CP, and those who have Max CP would still use XP potions for new characters to level skill trees.

Wrong, CP are account-wide, levels are not. While it takes a long time to reach the CP limit it would still be an unprofitable one time thing so my point still stands.

You don't read clearly. I never implied in the slightest way CP was not cross account, in fact I implied that very thing by mentioning those with "Max CP would still use XP potions for new characters to level skill trees".

Your point being having levels makes people buy XP potions does not stand on the basis of having CP from start to finish, and those who are already maxed out on CP still need the XP potions to level up the skill trees for their new characters.

I do read clearly but as someone who would never even consider buying XP scrolls and finding the lvl up of skills fairly easy I just don't think that's nearly enough for ZOS. You made this thread to avoid the pointless chore of lvling up... no matter how you word it, it just goes back to ZOS wanting money for this exact thing.

Okay so listen, your opinion matters to a degree just like everyone elses. But when you're trying to refute my thread using anecdotal arguments I'm not going to take what you have to say seriously. You're just making assumptions that are a reflection of your own psychological projection. I made this thread to bring awareness to the fact levels are no longer relevant in any sense. All you have at the core of your statements is ZOS making a profit off flipping XP scrolls. I refuted this clearly and constructively in multiple posts. Now with that being said, please stop trashing my thread. Thanks bye.

I was talking about ZOS and the reality of their business model. There was no opinion, nothing of what I said has to do with me or "my psychological projections" and throwing around with words like that doesn't really help you either if they're not making any sense. You use some Jackie Chan meme before you even understood what I said so don't tell me anything about assumptions.

You will have to go through this work with every character you make, just accept it. That's not what I think or what I want, that's simply how ZOS works. "Bye."

You're triggered, I apologize. This will be my last response to you, but you did say "as someone who would never even consider buying XP scrolls and finding the lvl up of skills fairly easy I just don't think that's nearly enough for ZOS". That's an anecdotal argument.

Secondly, instead of feeling the need to continue to trash my thread, consider this: Having CP from start to finish gives people more of an incentive to complete content, one of your main goals in an MMO is to get people to complete as much content as they can. With games like WoW which had tons of content, being pushed to end game content was more ideal for players who otherwise would never of seen it. They would complete all of the hard worked end game content in WoW instead of the same generic quests from 2006. This is how WoW got more sales for their expansions. The same concept applies to ESO but in a different light. Giving people an incentive to complete the games content, instead of grinding the leveled system on a mob for hours will increase the overall quality of the game. Even if we want to consider the people who would (waste) buy XP potions to grind a new character through levels to reach CP, there is still going to be more of a reason to buy XP potions since they will be given cross-character rewards than there will be for grinding a new character to the CP system just to play the game. Now more than ever, since everything is scaled and not leveled. The entire game is basically "end game".

andreasranasen wrote: »

I don't know why people whine about this ***. This is just a matter of 'Learn to Play'. It literally takes a day to lvl a character from 1-50. Even faster now during Witches Festival. SO NOOOOO! I rather have ZOS put some focus on more important stuff than whiny little kids asking for just way too much.

The title of the thread is a question of why we have a pointless leveling system now. Nobody is whining, nobody is asking for "way too much". I'm asking for something ZOS most likely will do in the near future.

Again what about non-vet pvp action?

If you drop levels you then have to rework access to non-vet pvp which requires time and resources to do while there are so many other more important things to spend time and resources on.

If you drop levels what does it take to access non vet pvp? You would have to revert to number of cp in a campaign that does not allow it. Additionally, by doing so you kill the population of non-vet. Let's say you need 160 cp or less to access nonvet. What about players over that limit? Should they no longer be allowed to enjoy non-vet because you don't want to grind to 50? Additionally, these players would no longer have access which means low cp/new players will have even less players to fight in non-vet forcing them to go to other places where they will get wrecked until they have cp/skills unlocked which will deter people from playing.

Seriously, what is your solution for this problem if lvls are removed? Do you put thought into effects this change would have on other aspects of the game or just how it effects you?

Yes, but that does not solve the problem for novice players or players with little to now skills unlocked. They are thrown into a seasoned campaign in which they are severely outmatched. This deters players from playing. The nonvet is meant to be a place for these players to grow in skill and unlock skills that allows them to be competitive in other campaigns like Azuras even if there is no cp.

Also I don't know about the leveled PVP, but if you don't have your skills leveled enough to do something that's on you, not the campaign. Even in a level campaign someone could just be lvl45 and have all the skills they want.

not really pointless- it keeps a community and ecosystem where there are players of all levels and therefore commerce at all levels. if there were not grinding - suddenly every low level item would lose any value or relevance, and the market would shift. believe it or not- but all those grinders levelling up , that buy your sharpened trait swords from vendors to research,that buy low level items, etc. they all contribute to the economy.

moreso it makes creating a character a real investment in time . which adds value to the character- which is what Zos want- and i can see why. the more time we spend- the more we care, the more money we spend, the more time we spend, etc.
giving people a shortcut goes against the very principles of making money from modern game development. the trick it make things hard (levelling) then make em pay to make it easy (psjyic ambrosia). good for them. i want the game to flourish and hope that new players constantly come to it.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Seems to me levels have absolutely no point behind them anymore. Since everything is scaled that is.

Just let us create characters starting off with our CP. No point in forcing people to go through levels or waste time not earning CP. It'd also help the ease the CP Grind fest so people creating new characters can gain a lot of extra CP just by completing the main quests.

What about skill line levels? Indavidual skill levels too? Or people who enjoy the ground up grind, also die hard black water blade pvp, being wealthy enough to have top notch gear and having to re gear every 6 levels to keep your stats up is a nice thing making it feel more difficult and peoples power more spread out oppsed to the typical 160 cp gear 2 piece monster tht will never change so you can up it to gold n have for ever, with cp to mega buff your resources so u can practically infa spam dps skills n everyone 5 second bursts their enemy.

Nty lol. Id prefer bwb, more challenged and consistent upkeep.

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Also I don't know about the leveled PVP, but if you don't have your skills leveled enough to do something that's on you, not the campaign. Even in a level campaign someone could just be lvl45 and have all the skills they want.

Yes but nonvet limits the availability of skills and passives across the board allowing for a competitive experience for new and low lvl players. Sure a lvl 45 will have more than a lvl 20. However, that lvl 40 still lacks passives and skills that an endgame player would have. That player is unlikely to have two maxed out weapon lines. That player still has a limited upside and must focus on the limited skills and passives they unlocked. Keeping the balance in nonvet. This will not be the case moving to another campaign. Again, you are effectively destroying nonvet pvp and forcing players into places they don't want to be. And for what? Because you don't want to grind to 50?

Let me get this straight, if a person has yet to lvl skills to be as competitive as they could be entering pvp that is on them. But you want to start at lvl 50 without grinding to it and that is not on you? Additionally, even if we all start at lvl 50 you are still stuck with the grind of Luling skills and what not. Either situation you are grinding exp to get where you want. Further, character lvls are directly tied to how fast class skill lines lvl up.

Again, you have also not addressed the issues associated with limiting nonvet to a cp cap.

All you're saying is leveled PVP keeps players who have maxed out skill trees from playing. With a low CP campaign you'd also not have those skills because you're literally just starting off.

You know what would be better though? If we reset our CP to 0 for each new character then have 0-160 be in sync with main quests so you'll be 160cp at the end of cold harbor regardless. Then once you complete the main questline or reach 160, your CP is bumped up to your cross-account CP. Then you get to spec that 500cp into your new character.

So many things could be better than the current level system.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Seems to me levels have absolutely no point behind them anymore. Since everything is scaled that is.

Just let us create characters starting off with our CP. No point in forcing people to go through levels or waste time not earning CP. It'd also help the ease the CP Grind fest so people creating new characters can gain a lot of extra CP just by completing the main quests.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Seems to me levels have absolutely no point behind them anymore. Since everything is scaled that is.

Just let us create characters starting off with our CP. No point in forcing people to go through levels or waste time not earning CP. It'd also help the ease the CP Grind fest so people creating new characters can gain a lot of extra CP just by completing the main quests.

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Seems to me levels have absolutely no point behind them anymore. Since everything is scaled that is.

Just let us create characters starting off with our CP. No point in forcing people to go through levels or waste time not earning CP. It'd also help the ease the CP Grind fest so people creating new characters can gain a lot of extra CP just by completing the main quests.

Parafrost wrote: »

Exp scrolls and ingame scrolls dont even stack. 4k gold too much for ppl to pay for a psijic ambrosia? o.O

XP scrolls you buy give 150% increase while crafted ones give 50%

Smasherx74 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Also I don't know about the leveled PVP, but if you don't have your skills leveled enough to do something that's on you, not the campaign. Even in a level campaign someone could just be lvl45 and have all the skills they want.

Yes but nonvet limits the availability of skills and passives across the board allowing for a competitive experience for new and low lvl players. Sure a lvl 45 will have more than a lvl 20. However, that lvl 40 still lacks passives and skills that an endgame player would have. That player is unlikely to have two maxed out weapon lines. That player still has a limited upside and must focus on the limited skills and passives they unlocked. Keeping the balance in nonvet. This will not be the case moving to another campaign. Again, you are effectively destroying nonvet pvp and forcing players into places they don't want to be. And for what? Because you don't want to grind to 50?

Let me get this straight, if a person has yet to lvl skills to be as competitive as they could be entering pvp that is on them. But you want to start at lvl 50 without grinding to it and that is not on you? Additionally, even if we all start at lvl 50 you are still stuck with the grind of Luling skills and what not. Either situation you are grinding exp to get where you want. Further, character lvls are directly tied to how fast class skill lines lvl up.

Again, you have also not addressed the issues associated with limiting nonvet to a cp cap.

All you're saying is leveled PVP keeps players who have maxed out skill trees from playing. With a low CP campaign you'd also not have those skills because you're literally just starting off.

You know what would be better though? If we reset our CP to 0 for each new character then have 0-160 be in sync with main quests so you'll be 160cp at the end of cold harbor regardless. Then once you complete the main questline or reach 160, your CP is bumped up to your cross-account CP. Then you get to spec that 500cp into your new character.

So many things could be better than the current level system.

That is just the same leveling in new skin. Still requires the grind you don't like.

Marto wrote: »

You do know that this game's main content is the 1-50 experience, right?

An MMO is not defined only by its pvp or endgame. This game, first and foremost, is a roleplaying game in which you create a character and advence through a storyline.

This is not a PVP game
This is not a Trials/Dungeon game

This is an RPG.

Just because everything is scaled doesn't matter it stops being an RPG.

You do realize all that content is now end game or "160cp"