The Removal of Bind on Equip from an Endgame Perspective

DocFrost72 · September 2016

Dromede wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Why not adjust tactics around NOT consuming pots?

You can for things like vet dungeons. But for vet trials, the content is tuned such that the amount of DPS and sustain that is required doesn't really leave you much room for adjustment.

I guess that is the thing I can't quite wrap my head around. I don't raid Vet, I raid normal so I'm missing a key component, but I can definately say if I had to run crafed potions that cost an arm and a leg to compete, to me it would seem gold, not skill, buys leaderboards (assuming two identicle groups one with potions one with trash pots).

Just my view.

OMG! What if devs are behind pots cost increase to promote the upcoming rng crates full of consumables to make your raids cheaper in terms of gold and more expensive in terms of real money? This way you gain advantage through crowns, this is game slowly moving to p2w through consumables?!!!111

Semi-crazy conspiracy theories aside, this is how it goes in my guild: noone cares what you bring to normal trial farms, but if a player shows up to a vet trial progression, he/she is expected to perform at the best of their abilities. It's also pretty obvious who's slacking for whatever reason - fights like vHel-Ra upstairs boss make it crystal clear as each player gets their own add to deal with.

Pots used to be one of the easiest and cheapest ways to increase dps - it allows you to take pure buff skills out of rotation, eases sustain and helps you suck a little less. Showing up to a vet trial with mediocre dps and drop pots is just plain rude - just like not having enough soul gems or repair kits.

Good crafted pots are a nessessity of a vet trial, not a luxury. Whatever reward for vet trial is, tradeable value should be not less than of 50-100 pots.

Idk about ways to adjust reward value to ever increasing pots market value, but 10k once every 5 days is not goimg to cut it

According to others who run these trials, it isnt a necessity for anything but leaderboards. If you want leaderboards, pick flowers. If you want to run the vet trial at all, and you needed these potions to even compete, then I'd personally want the trial changed. That said;

ZoS is going BoP, one last time I'll try to hammer this home: ZoS SUCKS at going back when they release unpopular stuff (remember AoE caps?). So no matter how much of an outcry is made, I highly doubt that ZoS goes back.

So the concern is making trials self sustaining in a BoP world, to me. Because IMHO that is what route you have now. If you want to continue trying to remove BoP (I want it gone too, for various reasons), then I won't be able to talk about this any further because we're talking two different situations entirely.

Shadesofkin · September 2016

Bosov wrote: »

So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.

You might have a chance of it being available from the golden vendor.

As for drops in overland, it'll be mostly greens with very rare chances at blue and purple.

Nifty2g · September 2016

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.

You might have a chance of it being available from the golden vendor.

As for drops in overland, it'll be mostly greens with very rare chances at blue and purple.

Really? I didnt know it was mostly dropping in green

Drummerx04 · September 2016

Bosov wrote: »

So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.

This guy gets it. Finally, someone outside the veteran trial community recognizes that this sucks for them too. Enjoy your green sun jewelry I guess.

Darlon · September 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.

You might have a chance of it being available from the golden vendor.

As for drops in overland, it'll be mostly greens with very rare chances at blue and purple.

Really? I didnt know it was mostly dropping in green

Yeah. From 5 dolmens done (that's where jewelry drops) I got 4 green items (necklace and rings) and 1 purple necklace..

covenant_merchant · September 2016

Chori wrote: »

200 tripots for 44k? roflmao

Better start looking at other guild traders or better get your own seller or better, farm your own flowers.

You get stacks of 100 for 15k and there are also several other traders selling them for amounts around that. Not enough of a reason to justify or prove wrong the changes being made, this thread is bias.

I don't know which server you have been playing on, but on PC EU, these are actually the correct prices for tripots and flowers, since they were subjected to intense market manipulation these past months.

Tristat pots' ingredients being Columbine, costing 520g/piece, Bugloss with 220g/piece and Mountain Flower 120g/piece as of today, you can see why running trials can get very expensive. Not to mention that Coldharbour, the Goat Oasis and Shada's Tear are overfarmed to hell, even at 4am nowadays.

Or here, let's look at spell power potions, which are a requirement for any magicka DD to get the best out of its build.

Lady Smock going for 280g, Corn Flower 240g, Water Hyacinth 80g as of today.
Considering that trials require you to spam these potions if you want to live up to your build's full potential (though arguably Hel Ra doesn't require that many potions), you can see why people are indignant that their main gold source of compensating for these costs will be destroyed.

Again, I'm talking about the PC EU prices as of the current day, but from what I've head, the PS4 EU server isn't doing much better. Don't know about the NA ones, but 44k/200 tristats doesn't seem that much of a joke.

And finally, all the people saying "go farm these flowers yourself, it'll cost less", while some people, myself included, have enough time to spare to go to Coldharbour, the Goat Oasis, or Shada's Tear to farm mats in hopes to make profit, many people do have lives and loved ones and w/e else, and do not have time to spare to mindlessly run around the Hollow City and bump heads with the 5 or 6 other farmers that are there at any given time of the day. And it'll only be worse with One Tamriel going live.

Chori · September 2016

kasa-obake wrote: »

Chori wrote: »

200 tripots for 44k? roflmao

Better start looking at other guild traders or better get your own seller or better, farm your own flowers.

You get stacks of 100 for 15k and there are also several other traders selling them for amounts around that. Not enough of a reason to justify or prove wrong the changes being made, this thread is bias.

I don't know which server you have been playing on, but on PC EU, these are actually the correct prices for tripots and flowers, since they were subjected to intense market manipulation these past months.

Tristat pots' ingredients being Columbine, costing 520g/piece, Bugloss with 220g/piece and Mountain Flower 120g/piece as of today, you can see why running trials can get very expensive. Not to mention that Coldharbour, the Goat Oasis and Shada's Tear are overfarmed to hell, even at 4am nowadays.

Or here, let's look at spell power potions, which are a requirement for any magicka DD to get the best out of its build.

Lady Smock going for 280g, Corn Flower 240g, Water Hyacinth 80g as of today.
Considering that trials require you to spam these potions if you want to live up to your build's full potential (though arguably Hel Ra doesn't require that many potions), you can see why people are indignant that their main gold source of compensating for these costs will be destroyed.

Again, I'm talking about the PC EU prices as of the current day, but from what I've head, the PS4 EU server isn't doing much better. Don't know about the NA ones, but 44k/200 tristats doesn't seem that much of a joke.

And finally, all the people saying "go farm these flowers yourself, it'll cost less", while some people, myself included, have enough time to spare to go to Coldharbour, the Goat Oasis, or Shada's Tear to farm mats in hopes to make profit, many people do have lives and loved ones and w/e else, and do not have time to spare to mindlessly run around the Hollow City and bump heads with the 5 or 6 other farmers that are there at any given time of the day. And it'll only be worse with One Tamriel going live.

If you read my signature it's written what server I play on, and price manipulation is something totally different which is an issue outside of what the patch offers. *** community is ***, and mats and item price movements have nothing to do with the patch itself. Those are things out of ZOS control unless they modify the node rates but again, it's only an EU server so thank the traders that flip prices for such a ridiculous amount.

On NA happened the same but with temper alloys. I get you dont want to pick up flowers though I really do, because I dont want to either but I have to in order to do something I want in the game and if you dont want to do something in the game according to what the "meta recquired to be on a leaderboard" asks you for, then adapt and change your build.

People that want to compete will find a way to compete and people that just want to have fun will have fun, saying no to a patch because leaderboard players will have to work harder for their place is extremelly ridiculous since those players are probably the 1% of the whole player base. Good decisions should be made for the greater good and this patch offers that, something better for the greater good of that amount of players left that are not interested whatsoever on spending the amount of money and dedication in order to farm things on a trial and could fo it ona 4 man dungeon.

Edit: and again, I can get stacks of tripots for around 15k per 100. Nowhere near 44k for 200

Chori · September 2016

double post

Destruent · September 2016

Chori wrote: »

Edit: and again, I can get stacks of tripots for around 15k per 100. Nowhere near 44k for 200

You are on NA-Server...prices on the EU server are nearly 2x as high as yours.
And again, why do they change a system which works great? Why do they take away the possible to make some gold out of the content you like? They should add more possibilities to make gold out of dungeons/pvp/soloplay....not less.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

@Nifty2g
I'm disappointed in your stance that just 5k or 10k a boss will motivate people to keep running.

RNG is more way addicting and fun then easy gold.
All we need 1 sellable set, or a special mount with a 1-3% drop rate.

Litterly one small RNG item could keep end-game players interested for a LONG time.

KingYogi415 · September 2016

And on ps4 100 spellpower pots go for almost 30k. I sell them so I know. Tri-pots are about the same.

covenant_merchant · September 2016

Chori wrote: »

Good decisions should be made for the greater good and this patch offers that, something better for the greater good of that amount of players left that are not interested whatsoever on spending the amount of money and dedication in order to farm things on a trial and could fo it ona 4 man dungeon.

How is removing Bind on Equip items "for the greater good" ? You do realize that trial and dungeon sets are different, right?
And while you can get decent prices for potions, NA is not the only server out there. PS4 EU, PC EU both suffer from insane prices.

Chori wrote: »

I get you dont want to pick up flowers though I really do, because I dont want to either but I have to in order to do something I want in the game and if you dont want to do something in the game according to what the "meta recquired to be on a leaderboard" asks you for, then adapt and change your build.

People that want to compete will find a way to compete and people that just want to have fun will have fun, saying no to a patch because leaderboard players will have to work harder for their place is extremelly ridiculous since those players are probably the 1% of the whole player base.

Uhm, beyond the fact that I said in my post, that I'm one of the people actually farming flowers, I fail to understand how you "adapt" your build to work without potions, especially if you're a magicka sorcerer. Though that holds for every class in PvE : to be competitive, you need potions.
As for the whole "leaderboard players will have to work harder", that doesn't make any sense. The content will not be more difficult, it will merely yield a surprising lack of reward, and therefore motivation to do it, apart for Weekly, or vanity/pride purposes. And that's not even going into the whole disappointing RNG issue in this game.

An example for instance: player X has farmed normal and vet versions of AA all summer to get Necropotence jewerly pieces. "Farmed" meaning several runs per day for over a month and a half. Not once did this jewerly drop. As of now, the player can go to the store and simply buy it for 45k+ and spare himself more countless hours of pointless farming. (Though it is somewhat rewarding now, considering you can sell the other BoE items you get). After the patch however, this option will be removed. It will all be down to a question of luck in looting. And relying solely on "luck" for end-game, competitive items that are now available for purchase, just doesn't feel right.

Humatiel · September 2016

As the GM of a raiding guild (consistently complete all vet trials / HM besides vMOL) I can say if things don't change we will probably be closing our doors to referrals only and even then they need to have at least completed the vet trials. I cant in good conscience recruit players that will cost my members 50k in gold to walk through all the vet trials the first time.

Nothing at all against the community / new players of course, but pragmatism will eventually win the day here.

Nifty2g · September 2016

KingYogi415 wrote: »

@Nifty2g
I'm disappointed in your stance that just 5k or 10k a boss will motivate people to keep running.

RNG is more way addicting and fun then easy gold.
All we need 1 sellable set, or a special mount with a 1-3% drop rate.

Litterly one small RNG item could keep end-game players interested for a LONG time.

At this point almost all of the endgame community i am talking to/referring to has their gear, this new trading really helps a lot with gear

Bosov · September 2016

Drummerx04 wrote: »

Bosov wrote: »

So how will this work? Im not very interested in doing the trials since i just dont enjoy them that much but i like pvp and i like mag dk.

Will these changes mean i need to run Hell Ra hard mode myself to get golden jewelry because i dont expect the gold jewelry to drop in Stonefalls with the rest of the sun set? I dont mind paying for it from people who like to run trials and make most of their eso gold with selling the stuff as long as the means i dont have to farm a trial 294848223838 times to get the drop i want. In also really unlucky with drops so if i cant buy the sun set i will never get it.

This guy gets it. Finally, someone outside the veteran trial community recognizes that this sucks for them too. Enjoy your green sun jewelry I guess.

Guess i need to buy them asap... stupid change, i dont see any positive side to it. I get forced into doing stuff i dont want and for the trial guys there is no extra insentive to run certain trials to make some money. Ive done the trials but really dont want to do them over and over and over

AmberLaTerra · September 2016

For all those saying we should pick our own flowers to make our potions and not get gear we can sell to buy them I ran a little test today.

I farmed flowers for 1 hour, picking up around 220 or so in total with the times my CP got me 2 from a node. Out of those 220 picked flowers I got enough useful ones to make 36 tri pots for my tank, and 32 essence of weapon power for my DPS. So if we extend this out that would be SIX hours spent picking flowers to get a full stack of 200 of each of those potions.

Also take into account I did this farming on the live server where I do not currently have to compete with players in other alliances trying to farm the same flowers which would make me get far less of them, and compete with other end game PVPers forced to pick their own flowers as well due to end game PVE giving no reward of value to cover cost. When this BoP for everything goes live it could easily take 12-18 hours to farm enough flowers for 1 full stack of a type of potion we need.

How is that fair that we would be forced into doing something we do not want to do for 12-18 hours a week to run what we do want to do 4 maybe 5 trials before we have to spend another 12-18 hours farming flowers?

In the mean time PVPer's get to spend most of their time enjoying PVP, Quester's get to spend all their time questing, RPer's get to spend all of their time RPing. Farmers get to continue to spend their time farming but have to compete with us making their results lower but they still are getting to do what they want in game.

They only players being regulated to doing what they enjoy to 25% or less of their play time are those who run end game content in less they choose to hemorrhage their hard earned money away, which will only last so long before it is gone and they can't do what they want.

While many other ways of playing the game do or in some cases do no make money not one says you have to lose money or spend 75% of your playtime grinding something else to break even doing this. Only end game content does that and I see absolutely no reason why when we have put all the time and effort in to getting to the point where we can do end game content we end up being the only group punished for playing that content.

Edit: And what about the players who enjoy end game content but are what would be considered more casual due to time they can play? Is if fair to tell a player who due to their job, health, or other RL issues they can only do trials 2 nights a month and all their other game time had to be spent getting supplies for that?

How would PVP'ers like it if they were told they can only play PVP 2 days a month? Or Quester's be only allowed to do 2 quests a month?

Yes end game content players may be a minority but there are just as many end game players with play time limitations as there are not.

hedna123b14_ESO · September 2016

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

For all those saying we should pick our own flowers to make our potions and not get gear we can sell to buy them I ran a little test today.

I farmed flowers for 1 hour, picking up around 220 or so in total with the times my CP got me 2 from a node. Out of those 220 picked flowers I got enough useful ones to make 36 tri pots for my tank, and 32 essence of weapon power for my DPS. So if we extend this out that would be SIX hours spent picking flowers to get a full stack of 200 of each of those potions.

Also take into account I did this farming on the live server where I do not currently have to compete with players in other alliances trying to farm the same flowers which would make me get far less of them, and compete with other end game PVPers forced to pick their own flowers as well due to end game PVE giving no reward of value to cover cost. When this BoP for everything goes live it could easily take 12-18 hours to farm enough flowers for 1 full stack of a type of potion we need.

How is that fair that we would be forced into doing something we do not want to do for 12-18 hours a week to run what we do want to do 4 maybe 5 trials before we have to spend another 12-18 hours farming flowers?

In the mean time PVPer's get to spend most of their time enjoying PVP, Quester's get to spend all their time questing, RPer's get to spend all of their time RPing. Farmers get to continue to spend their time farming but have to compete with us making their results lower but they still are getting to do what they want in game.

They only players being regulated to doing what they enjoy to 25% or less of their play time are those who run end game content in less they choose to hemorrhage their hard earned money away, which will only last so long before it is gone and they can't do what they want.

While many other ways of playing the game do or in some cases do no make money not one says you have to lose money or spend 75% of your playtime grinding something else to break even doing this. Only end game content does that and I see absolutely no reason why when we have put all the time and effort in to getting to the point where we can do end game content we end up being the only group punished for playing that content.

Edit: And what about the players who enjoy end game content but are what would be considered more casual due to time they can play? Is if fair to tell a player who due to their job, health, or other RL issues they can only do trials 2 nights a month and all their other game time had to be spent getting supplies for that?

How would PVP'ers like it if they were told they can only play PVP 2 days a month? Or Quester's be only allowed to do 2 quests a month?

Yes end game content players may be a minority but there are just as many end game players with play time limitations as there are not.

I don't think endgame guilds will be dealing with this change by farming...I think we will simply have to unfortunately export this cost to the community. There are several ways I can think of, but it's not nice or pretty. Pretty much what businesses do when dealing with new taxes, or costs - they pass them on to the customer/employee....

hrothbern · September 2016

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

For all those saying we should pick our own flowers to make our potions and not get gear we can sell to buy them I ran a little test today.

I farmed flowers for 1 hour, picking up around 220 or so in total with the times my CP got me 2 from a node. Out of those 220 picked flowers I got enough useful ones to make 36 tri pots for my tank, and 32 essence of weapon power for my DPS. So if we extend this out that would be SIX hours spent picking flowers to get a full stack of 200 of each of those potions.

Also take into account I did this farming on the live server where I do not currently have to compete with players in other alliances trying to farm the same flowers which would make me get far less of them, and compete with other end game PVPers forced to pick their own flowers as well due to end game PVE giving no reward of value to cover cost. When this BoP for everything goes live it could easily take 12-18 hours to farm enough flowers for 1 full stack of a type of potion we need.

How is that fair that we would be forced into doing something we do not want to do for 12-18 hours a week to run what we do want to do 4 maybe 5 trials before we have to spend another 12-18 hours farming flowers?

In the mean time PVPer's get to spend most of their time enjoying PVP, Quester's get to spend all their time questing, RPer's get to spend all of their time RPing. Farmers get to continue to spend their time farming but have to compete with us making their results lower but they still are getting to do what they want in game.

They only players being regulated to doing what they enjoy to 25% or less of their play time are those who run end game content in less they choose to hemorrhage their hard earned money away, which will only last so long before it is gone and they can't do what they want.

While many other ways of playing the game do or in some cases do no make money not one says you have to lose money or spend 75% of your playtime grinding something else to break even doing this. Only end game content does that and I see absolutely no reason why when we have put all the time and effort in to getting to the point where we can do end game content we end up being the only group punished for playing that content.

Edit: And what about the players who enjoy end game content but are what would be considered more casual due to time they can play? Is if fair to tell a player who due to their job, health, or other RL issues they can only do trials 2 nights a month and all their other game time had to be spent getting supplies for that?

How would PVP'ers like it if they were told they can only play PVP 2 days a month? Or Quester's be only allowed to do 2 quests a month?

Yes end game content players may be a minority but there are just as many end game players with play time limitations as there are not.

100% +1

We have the trials nicely updated

and what happens now is that the treshold, the barrier to entry, for new players and easy-going players is made higher by this patch change

Why ?

and if the number of players wanting to do now and then a trial would grow....

that will only cause further demand for potions !
driving up the prices !

I already suggested in another post to drastically reduce the running costs of trials:

make the potions last 10 minutes in a trial
no armor repair cost from doing trials (like PVP)

silvereyes · September 2016

Regardless of whether raid guilds adapt builds or start picking flowers or whatever, the BoP changes are still bad for everybody else.

Near impossible to get gold jewelry in the set you want without grinding trials. With so many sets, and all of them now have jewelry, the chance of the PvP golden vendor having the set you want is vanishingly small.
More competition for flower nodes, meaning slower gather rates.
Fewer customers buying potions / flowers. Raid guilds are a small % of the total population, but they buy a metric crap ton of pots / flowers. It's uncertain how this would play out in profitability, though, since at a lower price point, I'm sure volume would increase. What this would most likely do is not affect volume sellers / dedicated farmers too much, but would ultimately hurt those trying to farm flowers on the side as a source of income.

Transairion · September 2016

I feel like I'm the only one who actually read the Patch Notes, since I haven't seen this addressed yet:

Item Set Drop Locations
Many drop locations for Item Sets have been changed. Below are the locations for all existing and new Item Sets (generally listed in Light/Medium/Heavy order when applicable).

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

Asking for BoE Trial drops with Update 12 is literally asking for stuff like Infallible Aether to be freely sold on guild traders.

All the current BOE Trial gear (Necropotence, Silks of the Sun) have all be moved to Overland/Zone drops. They won't drop from Trials anymore, period. Only the above will drop, supply of Necropotence for example will skyrocket.

The only cause for concern about "being unable to get certain gear" is where Gold (Legendary) jewelry for stuff like Necropotence will be sourced from now, since it's 99% likely they're not going to drop out in the world in gold quality. Now I can't comment on the income loss for Trial-runners (since now instead of getting stuff to sell once they have a "full set", they'll still only be getting Aether and so on to vendor), but it seems like there's been a lot of misinformation floating around.

TLDR: Only currently BoP gear will drop from Trials in Update 12 anyway, so ZOS isn't going to change BoP gear to BoE for sale. All the BoE gear you CURRENTLY sell is being moved to the Overland/Zones loot table instead.

code65536 · September 2016

AmberLaTerra wrote: »

For all those saying we should pick our own flowers to make our potions and not get gear we can sell to buy them I ran a little test today.

I farmed flowers for 1 hour, picking up around 220 or so in total with the times my CP got me 2 from a node. Out of those 220 picked flowers I got enough useful ones to make 36 tri pots for my tank, and 32 essence of weapon power for my DPS. So if we extend this out that would be SIX hours spent picking flowers to get a full stack of 200 of each of those potions.

Also take into account I did this farming on the live server where I do not currently have to compete with players in other alliances trying to farm the same flowers which would make me get far less of them, and compete with other end game PVPers forced to pick their own flowers as well due to end game PVE giving no reward of value to cover cost. When this BoP for everything goes live it could easily take 12-18 hours to farm enough flowers for 1 full stack of a type of potion we need.

How is that fair that we would be forced into doing something we do not want to do for 12-18 hours a week to run what we do want to do 4 maybe 5 trials before we have to spend another 12-18 hours farming flowers?

In the mean time PVPer's get to spend most of their time enjoying PVP, Quester's get to spend all their time questing, RPer's get to spend all of their time RPing. Farmers get to continue to spend their time farming but have to compete with us making their results lower but they still are getting to do what they want in game.

They only players being regulated to doing what they enjoy to 25% or less of their play time are those who run end game content in less they choose to hemorrhage their hard earned money away, which will only last so long before it is gone and they can't do what they want.

While many other ways of playing the game do or in some cases do no make money not one says you have to lose money or spend 75% of your playtime grinding something else to break even doing this. Only end game content does that and I see absolutely no reason why when we have put all the time and effort in to getting to the point where we can do end game content we end up being the only group punished for playing that content.

Edit: And what about the players who enjoy end game content but are what would be considered more casual due to time they can play? Is if fair to tell a player who due to their job, health, or other RL issues they can only do trials 2 nights a month and all their other game time had to be spent getting supplies for that?

How would PVP'ers like it if they were told they can only play PVP 2 days a month? Or Quester's be only allowed to do 2 quests a month?

Yes end game content players may be a minority but there are just as many end game players with play time limitations as there are not.

And this is exactly why we also need a rebalancing of the alchemy craft. All this discussion about the rewards for content, while necessary, is insufficient on its own because it doesn't address at all the big elephant in the room: That potions are by far the biggest expense for trial runners, that their cost is rising, and that their cost will rise even more once One Tamriel consolidates Hollow City.

And trial rewards aren't going to help the groups that are still learning the content (how many stacks of potions did I go through before I finally opened that final chest in vMoL?) or the many other users of potions in this game outside of endgame PvE.

Nifty2g · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

I feel like I'm the only one who actually read the Patch Notes, since I haven't seen this addressed yet:

Item Set Drop Locations
Many drop locations for Item Sets have been changed. Below are the locations for all existing and new Item Sets (generally listed in Light/Medium/Heavy order when applicable).

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

Asking for BoE Trial drops with Update 12 is literally asking for stuff like Infallible Aether to be freely sold on guild traders.

All the current BOE Trial gear (Necropotence, Silks of the Sun) have all be moved to Overland/Zone drops. They won't drop from Trials anymore, period. Only the above will drop, supply of Necropotence for example will skyrocket.

The only cause for concern about "being unable to get certain gear" is where Gold (Legendary) jewelry for stuff like Necropotence will be sourced from now, since it's 99% likely they're not going to drop out in the world in gold quality. Now I can't comment on the income loss for Trial-runners (since now instead of getting stuff to sell once they have a "full set", they'll still only be getting Aether and so on to vendor), but it seems like there's been a lot of misinformation floating around.

TLDR: Only currently BoP gear will drop from Trials in Update 12 anyway, so ZOS isn't going to change BoP gear to BoE for sale. All the BoE gear you CURRENTLY sell is being moved to the Overland/Zones loot table instead.

No, in the OP I am asking them to explore ways to cover the cost of trials, removing BoE is a huge problem for this, and I believe they need other ways for the end game to cover the cost of trials that isn't too daunting

Transairion · September 2016

No, in the OP I am asking them to explore ways to cover the cost of trials, removing BoE is a huge problem for this, and I believe they need other ways for the end game to cover the cost of trials that isn't too daunting

Methinks this is awfully simple to fix, no?

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

These sets will be the only ones to drop, and will all be BoP. So why not just give them all a big vendor price?

If they vendored for something like 1k each, every drop you get that you aren't going to use is just gold in your pocket. Or the gold dropped by trash NPC's could go way up from the 1-2 gold they give now (I assume they'll still drop trash items worth 20ish gold too). In any result the BoP gear stays the same, just rewards you more for getting stuff you don't want.

Sallington · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

No, in the OP I am asking them to explore ways to cover the cost of trials, removing BoE is a huge problem for this, and I believe they need other ways for the end game to cover the cost of trials that isn't too daunting

Methinks this is awfully simple to fix, no?

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

These sets will be the only ones to drop, and will all be BoP. So why not just give them all a big vendor price?

If they vendored for something like 1k each, every drop you get that you aren't going to use is just gold in your pocket. Or the gold dropped by trash NPC's could go way up from the 1-2 gold they give now (I assume they'll still drop trash items worth 20ish gold too). In any result the BoP gear stays the same, just rewards you more for getting stuff you don't want.

That's actually a really good solution.

Nifty2g · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

No, in the OP I am asking them to explore ways to cover the cost of trials, removing BoE is a huge problem for this, and I believe they need other ways for the end game to cover the cost of trials that isn't too daunting

Methinks this is awfully simple to fix, no?

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

These sets will be the only ones to drop, and will all be BoP. So why not just give them all a big vendor price?

If they vendored for something like 1k each, every drop you get that you aren't going to use is just gold in your pocket. Or the gold dropped by trash NPC's could go way up from the 1-2 gold they give now (I assume they'll still drop trash items worth 20ish gold too). In any result the BoP gear stays the same, just rewards you more for getting stuff you don't want.

That is what I would like, legendary loot to sell for increased prices, this would make a lot of impact and would be so nice to sell our gear for some profits when new gear comes out instead of starting fresh every major update

Put this along with an increased weekly reward, would be quite nice and a sufficient way to get gold

I like having gear gated behind content that isnt BoE, but there needs to be a way to cover costs, and this would do it
Im sure the devs have something similar in mind if they are working on this

AmberLaTerra · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

I feel like I'm the only one who actually read the Patch Notes, since I haven't seen this addressed yet:

Item Set Drop Locations
Many drop locations for Item Sets have been changed. Below are the locations for all existing and new Item Sets (generally listed in Light/Medium/Heavy order when applicable).

Trials
•Aetherian Archive: Healing Mage, Quick Serpent, Defending Warrior
•Hel Ra Citadel: Destruction Mage, Poisonous Serpent, Berserking Warrior
•Maw of Lorkhaj: Twilight Remedy, Moondancer, Roar of Alkosh, Lunar Bastion
•Sanctum Ophidia: Wise Mage, Twice-Fanged Serpent, Immortal Warrior
•Aetherian Archive / Hel Ra Citadel / Sanctum Ophidia: Infallible Mage, Vicious Serpent, Eternal Warrior

Asking for BoE Trial drops with Update 12 is literally asking for stuff like Infallible Aether to be freely sold on guild traders.

All the current BOE Trial gear (Necropotence, Silks of the Sun) have all be moved to Overland/Zone drops. They won't drop from Trials anymore, period. Only the above will drop, supply of Necropotence for example will skyrocket.

The only cause for concern about "being unable to get certain gear" is where Gold (Legendary) jewelry for stuff like Necropotence will be sourced from now, since it's 99% likely they're not going to drop out in the world in gold quality. Now I can't comment on the income loss for Trial-runners (since now instead of getting stuff to sell once they have a "full set", they'll still only be getting Aether and so on to vendor), but it seems like there's been a lot of misinformation floating around.

TLDR: Only currently BoP gear will drop from Trials in Update 12 anyway, so ZOS isn't going to change BoP gear to BoE for sale. All the BoE gear you CURRENTLY sell is being moved to the Overland/Zones loot table instead.

If you read all the PTS patch note you will see not all the current BoE sets from trials are being moved to overland/zone drops. Many are being moved from BoE trial drops to becoming BoP dungeon drops. Our point is they should remain BoE trial drops so we have something to offset the cost and effort it take to do trials.

Just for example, BOE sets we can now sell of Vipers Sting, Worm, Hircines, Ebon, Dreugh King, KNightmare just to name a few will all be BOP dungeon drops now.

If they were making them all BoE overland drops that would be one thing, but the fact is they are taking away a lot of our BoE drops and making them BoP elsewhere instead of leaving them BoE in trials as the should be.

If you are going to try to quote the PTS patch notes to back the cause of fighting for this change that screws end game players at least use the full story and do not just cherry pick the small portion of it that fits your argument.

silvereyes · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

Asking for BoE Trial drops with Update 12 is literally asking for stuff like Infallible Aether to be freely sold on guild traders.

I haven't seen anyone specifically arguing for that. From what I've seen, there have been two main complaints:

Previously BoE gear that is now BoP. Warlock, Willpower, Agility, Endurance, etc.
Lack of gold jewelry for sets that have been moved from trials to overland: Silks of the Sun, Red Mountain, etc.

Warlock we could live without I guess. But what about making Willpower, Agility and Endurance BoE again?

Then, maybe add one of the following mechanics:

Last boss of vet trials has a small RNG chance of dropping gold jewel from one of the BoE sets
Leaderboard trials reward includes guaranteed gold BoE jewel

silvereyes · September 2016

Transairion wrote: »

These sets will be the only ones to drop, and will all be BoP. So why not just give them all a big vendor price?

That still doesn't help with the fact that now the *only* way to get gold BoE jewelry is from the PvP vendor. In fact, the only gold jewelry drops in the whole game are from veteran hard mode trials, and they are all BoP.

This is perhaps a separate issue than trials themselves, though. If dungeons or overworld had hard mode gold jewelry drops, it could solve this problem.

Darkdex · September 2016

Can anyone confirm if the Footman/Healer/Destruction mastery/Archer's mind from vDSA is BOP on PTS?

code65536 · September 2016

silvereyes wrote: »

But what about making Willpower, Agility and Endurance BoE again?

I think you may have misread the patch notes. These three IC sets are still obtainable the traditional way via the IC vaults, and now instead of dropping from dungeons, they are a reward from the random dungeon finder (so I can stop getting Sithis trash from random dungeons). There is no indication that their BoE status will change.