It's not an argument, more like a factual counter. Do you need to slot it or make sure to have shields up 24/7? No, of course not, but you need to realize then that you could be a target for a ganker if one comes upon you. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that, just trying to tell people ways to cut down on the burst of gankbuilds. Seriously though, if I see someone who is at least reasonably decent at maintaining their shields or keeps popping radiant, then I won't even bother trying to gank them.Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »Let's face it, eso pvp wouldn't give those feelings without gankers. Stamina is king, every projectile attack is dodged, and the maluplars are irritating when they camp on top of your sewers base exit. Pvp will never be fun for everyone lol.jarradarab wrote: »I mean isn't that the whole point of being an Assassin? To get in unnoticed, hit hard and kill and then sink back into the shadows as if you were never there. I'm not a ganker but ive just leveled a NB to CP rank and will be building it into a gank build for this reason.
Are you really that dense?
Ofc that´s the whole point.
The problem about it: it is not fun for the victim because the whole point of proper ganking is to leave your opponent no chance to fight back.
Having no chance to fight back is ok in singleplayer games - it has no place in multiplayer imo.
Healthy pvp requires to be fun for every participant - or atleast leave the looser with a feeling that he can either improve or avoid the situation the next time.
I´d argue getting virtually 1shot by an opponent that was invisible before he choose to murder you leaves you with none of those feelings.
Oh, and to improve the whole being ganked situation: keep shields up, have inner light or better yet radiant slotted, impen/crit resistance, put points in health or use food if you need to, don't run your horse out of stam across a bridge on your way to a fight, and finally, quit checking your inventory in the middle of the sewers !
Or just remove the ability to be permanently invisible without any cost associated to it.
Also keeping shields up and having radiant magelight - anyone who still uses those as an argument just destroys their own credibility on the matter.
My group ran across him randomly. Hardly "preying," but spin it how you want to. My group seeks out large zergs and guild groups.
...I toy with lowbies. My group came across a level 10 argonian the other night and killed it with entropy spam.
Through its Phoenix proc.
It was glorious.
CapuchinSeven wrote: »Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »Let's face it, eso pvp wouldn't give those feelings without gankers. Stamina is king, every projectile attack is dodged, and the maluplars are irritating when they camp on top of your sewers base exit. Pvp will never be fun for everyone lol.jarradarab wrote: »I mean isn't that the whole point of being an Assassin? To get in unnoticed, hit hard and kill and then sink back into the shadows as if you were never there. I'm not a ganker but ive just leveled a NB to CP rank and will be building it into a gank build for this reason.
Are you really that dense?
Ofc that´s the whole point.
The problem about it: it is not fun for the victim because the whole point of proper ganking is to leave your opponent no chance to fight back.
Having no chance to fight back is ok in singleplayer games - it has no place in multiplayer imo.
Healthy pvp requires to be fun for every participant - or atleast leave the looser with a feeling that he can either improve or avoid the situation the next time.
I´d argue getting virtually 1shot by an opponent that was invisible before he choose to murder you leaves you with none of those feelings.
Oh, and to improve the whole being ganked situation: keep shields up, have inner light or better yet radiant slotted, impen/crit resistance, put points in health or use food if you need to, don't run your horse out of stam across a bridge on your way to a fight, and finally, quit checking your inventory in the middle of the sewers !
Or just remove the ability to be permanently invisible without any cost associated to it.
Also keeping shields up and having radiant magelight - anyone who still uses those as an argument just destroys their own credibility on the matter.
He is talking about stamina, he uses the word, he points out he's talking about stamina and you bring up an ability that is literally the only reason to play a mageblade over a stamblade, which only a magblade can spam which to be clear here stamblades would laugh at as they don't need to spam it as they use it between dodge rolls.
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »It's not an argument, more like a factual counter. Do you need to slot it or make sure to have shields up 24/7? No, of course not, but you need to realize then that you could be a target for a ganker if one comes upon you. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that, just trying to tell people ways to cut down on the burst of gankbuilds. Seriously though, if I see someone who is at least reasonably decent at maintaining their shields or keeps popping radiant, then I won't even bother trying to gank them.Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »Let's face it, eso pvp wouldn't give those feelings without gankers. Stamina is king, every projectile attack is dodged, and the maluplars are irritating when they camp on top of your sewers base exit. Pvp will never be fun for everyone lol.jarradarab wrote: »I mean isn't that the whole point of being an Assassin? To get in unnoticed, hit hard and kill and then sink back into the shadows as if you were never there. I'm not a ganker but ive just leveled a NB to CP rank and will be building it into a gank build for this reason.
Are you really that dense?
Ofc that´s the whole point.
The problem about it: it is not fun for the victim because the whole point of proper ganking is to leave your opponent no chance to fight back.
Having no chance to fight back is ok in singleplayer games - it has no place in multiplayer imo.
Healthy pvp requires to be fun for every participant - or atleast leave the looser with a feeling that he can either improve or avoid the situation the next time.
I´d argue getting virtually 1shot by an opponent that was invisible before he choose to murder you leaves you with none of those feelings.
Oh, and to improve the whole being ganked situation: keep shields up, have inner light or better yet radiant slotted, impen/crit resistance, put points in health or use food if you need to, don't run your horse out of stam across a bridge on your way to a fight, and finally, quit checking your inventory in the middle of the sewers !
Or just remove the ability to be permanently invisible without any cost associated to it.
Also keeping shields up and having radiant magelight - anyone who still uses those as an argument just destroys their own credibility on the matter.
There is a decent enough cost associated with it as is, it's called the skill is broken af.
It's pretty much the same reason RL snipers have always been hated on any battlefield throughout history. Go ask anyone in the armed forces. Troops would drop a nuke on the area where a sniper might be, if they were able to. Lord have mercy if you were one, and ever got captured. If you can't see why people hate gankers (the equivilent of a sniper) OP, you really are clueless.
Ahh, I misunderstood and thought you were talking about permacloaking as it's a ganking nb thread. I agree about what you mentioned with staying crouched permanently with no penalty. Implementing some sort of slow drain wouldn't change much about a decent ganker's playstyle anyway. I know I certainly don't sit around a bridge waiting for randoms for 30 minutes.As i said. I was talking about crouch and the ability to wait invisible without a cost. Make crouch drain stamina permanently to force ppl to use it actively and everything is good.
I don´t have an issue with cloak apart from it not having any working ranged counter.
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »Honestly, I think where it's at is fine (my bias here may be coming through lol). When I come across good players in Cyrodiil, they have no issues whatsoever keeping me out of cloak and forcing me to fight head on. If I happen to use shadow image intelligently, I feel like I should be rewarded for it...not punished with yet another counter. Not everyone wants to do the whole face-tank/stand your ground no matter what playstyle. Besides, it's not like we're getting any AP when we bail.
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »My group ran across him randomly. Hardly "preying," but spin it how you want to. My group seeks out large zergs and guild groups....I toy with lowbies. My group came across a level 10 argonian the other night and killed it with entropy spam.
Through its Phoenix proc.
It was glorious.
You may not actively seek out low levels, but that poor guy became your prey so no, I am not twisting anything. And that's not even relevant to what I am getting at; I am simply stating I find it ironic the way you speak of gankers yet you have preyed upon helpless low levels to the extent you take pleasure in "toying" with them. Even as a ganker I don't stoop that low."Preying" implies seeking them out intending to only fight that type of player. We do not seek out lowbies. However, when we find one, we play with them. We are 4-6 man groups, and we seek out large guilds and zergs. If anything, we prey on disorganized large groups. But as I said, twist it how you want.
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »You may not actively seek out low levels, but that poor guy became your prey so no, I am not twisting anything. And that's not even relevant to what I am getting at; I am simply stating I find it ironic the way you speak of gankers yet you have preyed upon helpless low levels to the extent you take pleasure in "toying" with them. Even as a ganker I don't stoop that low."Preying" implies seeking them out intending to only fight that type of player. We do not seek out lowbies. However, when we find one, we play with them. We are 4-6 man groups, and we seek out large guilds and zergs. If anything, we prey on disorganized large groups. But as I said, twist it how you want.
The most anger I ever felt to a ganker was when I had 10k tel var stones and was literally just about to use my sigil to bank them and I get ganked and lose all those stones. I almost broke my damn mouse and had to take a break just to not break my computer if it happened again.
Edit: oh and when we had Fengrush, Sypher, and a bunch of others recently using bomb builds and killing us while we were trying to fight Molag Bal for the skins -_- that was annoying as hell. You'd think they'd look for something more challenging
And there is a difference between just killing someone and toying with them/mocking them Xv1 .Hey, he was running between Bleaks and Chalm alone in the max level campaign. He put himself in a helpless situation. Welcome to Cyrodiil.
Most gankers look for max level people in inventory screens or with low CP and run from fights when turned on. There's quite a difference.
what an angel he must be.vamp_emily wrote: »How could anyone hate a ganker? They are so polite.
This is a message I got yesterday when I got ganked for 6.7k stones.
Aww... he said TY
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »And there is a difference between just killing someone and toying with them/mocking them Xv1 .
This is perhaps my most favourite ganking post . I am sorry you and your group lost the stones, but being selfish, I am so glad it happened so that you could tell the story haha. I am definitely going to start using blade of woe on NPCs when stalking targets.I had my most fun, but same time worst possible meeting with ganker nb few weeks ago. It happened in IC sewers.
All started when I ran in small group of other AD players farming tel war. We got in fight with DC group and we managed to kill them all. Or thats what we thought.
We kept running to the DC territory of sewers and soon we noticed that we were followed. First the slowest one died. Two guys went back to rez him/her and soon they both were death. We all had lot of tw so rest of us just started to run and we tried to get on ladders. We were sure we made it but then came few EP players. We won but, there was still distance to ladders. We kept running and soon I noticed rest of my group got also killed. I turned to look and then I saw him first time. He was cat. Then I also realized I was standing at corner of room. Cat dissapeared and I tried to get hidden but he was looking me all the time.
I knew I had no chance but I just got all my buffs up and started throwing blazing spears. But couldnt hit him. Then the creepiest part started.
I see him using blade of woe at npc, i throw spear but he dissapears before soear lands. Few secs after npc closer to me falls I see cat for maybe sec and then boom he dissapears. Same thing kept happening and soon almost all human type npc in room were death. I turn to look direction where I saw him last time and when I turn back, npc behind me is dead. I just start running as fast as I can. He let me run some distance so I was thinking that I can make it. But then ambush few other skills and I was dead in 2sec.
It was horrible but also one of my best and exiting moments in game. So mr.BladeOfWoe cat. Orc says thank you
jarradarab wrote: »I mean isn't that the whole point of being an Assassin? To get in unnoticed, hit hard and kill and then sink back into the shadows as if you were never there. I'm not a ganker but ive just leveled a NB to CP rank and will be building it into a gank build for this reason.
Are you really that dense?
Ofc that´s the whole point.
The problem about it: it is not fun for the victim because the whole point of proper ganking is to leave your opponent no chance to fight back.
Having no chance to fight back is ok in singleplayer games - it has no place in multiplayer imo.
Healthy pvp requires to be fun for every participant - or atleast leave the looser with a feeling that he can either improve or avoid the situation the next time.
I´d argue getting virtually 1shot by an opponent that was invisible before he choose to murder you leaves you with none of those feelings.
Stoopid_Nwah wrote: »This is perhaps my most favourite ganking post . I am sorry you and your group lost the stones, but being selfish, I am so glad it happened so that you could tell the story haha. I am definitely going to start using blade of woe on NPCs when stalking targets.I had my most fun, but same time worst possible meeting with ganker nb few weeks ago. It happened in IC sewers.
All started when I ran in small group of other AD players farming tel war. We got in fight with DC group and we managed to kill them all. Or thats what we thought.
We kept running to the DC territory of sewers and soon we noticed that we were followed. First the slowest one died. Two guys went back to rez him/her and soon they both were death. We all had lot of tw so rest of us just started to run and we tried to get on ladders. We were sure we made it but then came few EP players. We won but, there was still distance to ladders. We kept running and soon I noticed rest of my group got also killed. I turned to look and then I saw him first time. He was cat. Then I also realized I was standing at corner of room. Cat dissapeared and I tried to get hidden but he was looking me all the time.
I knew I had no chance but I just got all my buffs up and started throwing blazing spears. But couldnt hit him. Then the creepiest part started.
I see him using blade of woe at npc, i throw spear but he dissapears before soear lands. Few secs after npc closer to me falls I see cat for maybe sec and then boom he dissapears. Same thing kept happening and soon almost all human type npc in room were death. I turn to look direction where I saw him last time and when I turn back, npc behind me is dead. I just start running as fast as I can. He let me run some distance so I was thinking that I can make it. But then ambush few other skills and I was dead in 2sec.
It was horrible but also one of my best and exiting moments in game. So mr.BladeOfWoe cat. Orc says thank you
This is what turned one of my mag nbs into a ganker. I was sick of zerg v zerg lagfests, taking the same keeps and outposts that I had been for who knows how long, major evasion, and it didn't help that stamina became king overnight (they needed to be on par with magicka, but perhaps with the sets given to them, it was a bit much?)...jarradarab wrote: »I mean isn't that the whole point of being an Assassin? To get in unnoticed, hit hard and kill and then sink back into the shadows as if you were never there. I'm not a ganker but ive just leveled a NB to CP rank and will be building it into a gank build for this reason.
Are you really that dense?
Ofc that´s the whole point.
The problem about it: it is not fun for the victim because the whole point of proper ganking is to leave your opponent no chance to fight back.
Having no chance to fight back is ok in singleplayer games - it has no place in multiplayer imo.
Healthy pvp requires to be fun for every participant - or atleast leave the looser with a feeling that he can either improve or avoid the situation the next time.
I´d argue getting virtually 1shot by an opponent that was invisible before he choose to murder you leaves you with none of those feelings.
Agree on all points.
With the current meta and TTK being short it isnt fun, rewarding or skillful. Add in gankers who prey on lower levels or even levels that have no chance to fight back and it is easy to see why people dont find this play style enjoyable and dislike the players that do. It is like asking the kid on the play ground why he doesnt he like the bully?
The ganker kills people before they can react allowing no counter play, that isnt rewarding combat and I struggle to see how that can be engaging and fun long term for the ganker. In particular those that have max CP and gear that pray on lesser leveled opponents or builds that take advantage of sets that kill people before they can react. It certainly isnt skillful play and it is easy to see why people hate people who do this.
Players enjoy PvP that gives them the illusion of counter play and the ability to skillfully counter a ganker and out play them. However that isnt ESOwhere ganking is more akin to CoD headshots which is not enjoyable, fun or rewarding game play in an MMO. If the meta continues with this power creep and low TTK, it will turn people that want a rewarding skill base experience. Not to mention new players that already have to grind for months to hopefully get weapons, armor and CP to even be on a level playing field.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »I don't mind gankers, what I mind is how salty and malicious some get towards you after a failed gank or whatever. A lot of gankers on PC NA will send the worst tells lol. But I've met some cool ones too who will talk to you about builds, Cyrodiil life, whatever. I don't think it's really gankers people hate, but the kind of people some of those gankers are that they hate.
I had my most fun, but same time worst possible meeting with ganker nb few weeks ago. It happened in IC sewers.
All started when I ran in small group of other AD players farming tel war. We got in fight with DC group and we managed to kill them all. Or thats what we thought.
We kept running to the DC territory of sewers and soon we noticed that we were followed. First the slowest one died. Two guys went back to rez him/her and soon they both were death. We all had lot of tw so rest of us just started to run and we tried to get on ladders. We were sure we made it but then came few EP players. We won but, there was still distance to ladders. We kept running and soon I noticed rest of my group got also killed. I turned to look and then I saw him first time. He was cat. Then I also realized I was standing at corner of room. Cat dissapeared and I tried to get hidden but he was looking me all the time.
I knew I had no chance but I just got all my buffs up and started throwing blazing spears. But couldnt hit him. Then the creepiest part started.
I see him using blade of woe at npc, i throw spear but he dissapears before soear lands. Few secs after npc closer to me falls I see cat for maybe sec and then boom he dissapears. Same thing kept happening and soon almost all human type npc in room were death. I turn to look direction where I saw him last time and when I turn back, npc behind me is dead. I just start running as fast as I can. He let me run some distance so I was thinking that I can make it. But then ambush few other skills and I was dead in 2sec.
It was horrible but also one of my best and exiting moments in game. So mr.BladeOfWoe cat. Orc says thank you