What mysterious messages are Sorcerer abilities hiding ?
-
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
I don't understand how you can be this dense. It says it in the tool tip. You can't get any more accurate then the description of the spell. THAT is undeniable. How can you claim something without any proof? And if you read he actual text I linked before "I was summoned by a mortal" it even describes a Dremora on guard duty who gets pulled into the realm when someone uses a conjuration spell. It's literally all right there in plain view in the game. What are you basing your info off of? a feeling you have?
You only need your eyes and some understanding.
Then you will be able to see the difference between these 2 things.
I just don't know, what else I can tell you.
You are wrong and catalyst is right. You are making fanfic like assumptions on the nature of magic when there is lore info there
No assumptions.
Some summons just vanish and some leave a body afterwards. It has always been this way and these 2 are different versions.
How can you even fight this ? That's just how it is O.o I really don't understand why you keep saying otherwise, while it's more than obvious.
No assumptions? Yet you have no proof to your claims. That's literally the definition of Assumption. But don't take my word for it... here's Oxford's Defition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/assumption
What summon sticks around after you've killed them? The only thing I can think of that might be causing your confusion, is that you may be confusing all Daedra with summoned Daedra. As with the case of say.... A Daedra currently in Bruma. If you kill him, he falls dead and lays there for a time, allowing you to loot him. This Daedra wasn't brought to Nirn by magical means,(or at least a summoned magical means) they opened a portal and walked in. It's not the same as being summoned.
Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from. This is how it has always worked going as far back as TES III: Morrowind. All in-game lore and references back this up. To deny it is to outright refuse the truth itself. Maybe its because you personally don't like the idea of pulling unwilling subject every time you summon one, or you like to think of them as your friend. But this here is the truth of the matter, indisputable proof from the people who made the games. The ONLY time I was able to find anything remotely referring to magical copies, was specifically the bound weapon spells of TES V: Skyrim, as they look to be made from magic, and are the only known spells to have done that.
You have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
No, I do not mistake wild Daedra in the sewers or elsewhere as summoned Daedra.
But there are spells that summon a temporary unstable Daedra and ones that conjure a physical Daedra from Oblivion.
Come on, seriously. You can't be serious with all your posts
Yet another assumption based on no facts.
Yes you've caught me, I just like to hang out on forums of games I never play and argue lore with strangers. /sarcasm over
Are you at all serious? Show me. Prove what you're talking about. Lets see some evidence to your claim."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]3 -
Lieblingsjunge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Ignorance is the greatest weapon of tyranny.
PC - EU.
Lieblingsjunge(AD) - Racechanged Argonian :< | AR 50 - No double AP or Bleakers involved |
Sits-On-Cacti(DC) - Problem?
Fail-With-Tail(AD) - Healing Springs-spammer :<
Tiny Liebs(EP) - Very Tiny. Also heals.
Lieblingsmädchen(DC) - Magplar is love.
The Dominàtrix(AD) - Chains, whip, whip, whip.
Fluffy Furball Kitten(DC) - Kittycat, meow.
Your Face(EP) - People make bad jokes about my name =(
Liebs-With-Trees(AD) - Male argo with a big tail :>
Officer/Sandwitch of Zerg Squad
My title: The Maneater, Destroyer of Maneuvers, Bane of Potatoes, she who devours them, The Black Hole, the humorless, first of her name.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.Edited by Dracane on August 11, 2016 4:28PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Unless your video is of Todd Howard saying "Ignore all in-game references, The Conjuration school can create magical copies" Its probably not going to amount to much, but by all means find one.
While we wait, here's some in-game books to help you
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Origins_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Principles_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Tragedy_in_Black
All in-game references specifically stating conjuration is the act of pulling a Daedra from oblivion and binding it. One of the books even makes mention the binding part is where a lot of mages go wrong, and we can even see this in the game as we can randomly run into a conjurer who gets attacked by their own summoned creature, and we have the option of saving them.Edited by catalyst10e on August 11, 2016 4:40PM"Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]6 -
subtlezeroub17_ESO✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I've been saying all along the mages guild is creepy and hardly a 'heroic' guild.
The mage's guild probably doesn't want to be heroic anyway
I wish we could translate Templar abilities. But Aedric signs aren't known to us.
I prefer to roleplay my abilites as given to me by Meridia anyway. She used to be an Aedra so I assume she is using the last bit of her Aedric powers to imbue mortal agents across nirn.
1 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well although all those things are cool... Sorc pets are still worse than what they should be.
By the way @Dracane that was really interesting!
About the mines/curse: i think they show the symbol of Sorcs. So Alteration (Dark Magic), Shock (Storm Calling) and Conjuration (Daedric Summoning). At least thats how I'd interpret it
@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Unless your video is of Todd Howard saying "Ignore all in-game references, The Conjuration school can create magical copies" Its probably not going to amount to much, but by all means find one.
While we wait, here's some in-game books to help you
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Origins_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Principles_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Tragedy_in_Black
All in-game references specifically stating conjuration is the act of pulling a Daedra from oblivion and binding it. One of the books even makes mention the binding part is where a lot of mages go wrong, and we can even see this in the game as we can randomly run into a conjurer who gets attacked by their own summoned creature, and we have the option of saving them.
Nope. Unlike you, I don't shot unnecessary quotes and bokes at people. I actually play the game and will present you a nice recording+ lessons, on what the difference between conjuring and summoning is.KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »Catalyst vs Dracane. Sorry, I'm giving this one to Catalyst. You got served.
Nobody got served. Because he is wrong and I will prove that soon.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Unless your video is of Todd Howard saying "Ignore all in-game references, The Conjuration school can create magical copies" Its probably not going to amount to much, but by all means find one.
While we wait, here's some in-game books to help you
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Origins_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Principles_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Tragedy_in_Black
All in-game references specifically stating conjuration is the act of pulling a Daedra from oblivion and binding it. One of the books even makes mention the binding part is where a lot of mages go wrong, and we can even see this in the game as we can randomly run into a conjurer who gets attacked by their own summoned creature, and we have the option of saving them.
Nope. Unlike you, I don't shot unnecessary quotes and bokes at people. I actually play the game and will present you a nice recording+ lessons, on what the difference between conjuring and summoning is.KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »Catalyst vs Dracane. Sorry, I'm giving this one to Catalyst. You got served.
Nobody got served. Because he is wrong and I will prove that soon.
What constitutes it as "unnecessary"? I know this is apparently a foreign concept for you, but it's called backing your claim with evidence. I made the claim, that you are wrong, and used quotes, in-game references, and in-game books to support that claim. If you played the game, you should have run across these references and books already.... just sayin' I dont even know how you can even argue with the game itself telling you you're wrong.
Maybe you just dont want to admit you're wrong here, it's cool man, I'm not going to rub your face in it, or tell you I told you so, or any other such nonsense. But you're in a very unique and great position here to learn something about the lore and how magic works as a whole within the Elder Scrolls universe. I don't want to discourage you from wanting to look further into it by doing something stupid like make fun of you for not knowing something. But you do need to know you are wrong here, and you need to admit that in order to move forward. You don't even need to admit it to me, just to yourself at least.
I'd be willing to even meet you half way onto the topic, and if you want to do like subtlezeroub17_ESO did and claim it as head-canon or fanfic, that's totally cool. No one can argue someone's head-canon. Maybe your sorc is the one who figured out HOW to make a copy because they were so opposed to taking unwilling subjects, or couldn't quite get the binding part down. Role play the hell out of it. But at the end of the day you need to KNOW it's wrong, and is just a head-canon quirk for your own immersion."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]3 -
NordSwordnBoard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Throwback Loresday?
Loreback Thorsday?
Loresmack Thorsday! ...hows that?
Fear is the Mindkiller1 -
Stump✭✭✭SirCritical wrote: »Lol, 2 mages are arguing there
I hope IRL you aren't practising your skills
I think that Loremaster Lawrence Schick should express his opinion in this matter and decide who is right (if anyone) xD
@Lawrence_Schick WE SUMMON THEE
Co-GM "Assembly of Safety n Security" PC/ NA1 -
Elfbait✭✭✭This argument (rather, non-argument, because lore has long explicitly stated the nature of summoning- it is a form of coercion. Your summons are not your willing friends.) has been entertaining enough, but now I'm aggravated after reading some of the ESO added books on the subject.
Summoning is so boring in this game, in comparison with the single player titles. And then ESO includes this book http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Where_Magical_Paths_Meet which makes conjuration sound awesome, and which highlights just how drab and bereft of variety Summoning is in the game itself. Fix it, Zeni. Please.1 -
waterfairy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
@DracaneYou have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
Have you played a TES game? If you played Skyrim then you'd know your assumptions are wrong. For the conjuration master spell you summon the same daedra 3 times and every time you "kill" him he gets banished back to Oblivion...he's not a magical copy though, it's the same exact daedra. The 3rd time you summon him you tell him something along the lines of "do I have to banish you again or will you submit because I can do this all day". You then order him to retrieve a sigil stone, he tells you to banish him again so he can get it from Oblivion then summon him again and he'll have it.
4 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is an awesome thread but sadly all this discussion is confusing me. Wish we could get official response on this matter or even better having videos or ESO live segments dedicated to explain all this awesome lore behind spells, and suchPC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »This is an awesome thread but sadly all this discussion is confusing me. Wish we could get official response on this matter or even better having videos or ESO live segments dedicated to explain all this awesome lore behind spells, and such
The short answer is, read the description of spells when you see them to get a general idea of how they work.
The long answers involve reading through books, wiki pages, libraries, etc...
(Some sites that help)
http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Elder_Scrolls_Wiki
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.imperial-library.info/
If you're interested in learning more about Lore, a good place to start is the ShoddyCast YouTube channel;
(Season 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-chDClmdos&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzCPBUy9uAXQUXZ4UBaDLKS5
(Season 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZjneISs-vA&list=PL7pGJQV-jlzB-qocScD0wPA5twwi1IM5p
They use mods to create awesome visualizations in order to explain some of the basic concepts and stories of lore.
Zaric Zhakaron also provides a very in depth explanation of the lore
https://www.youtube.com/user/Zhakaron/playlists?view=50&shelf_id=21&sort=dd
He does a good job of also explaining controversies within the fandom, and touches on complex topics such as Tiber Septim's mantling of Talos."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If you read what he wrote you would have seen that he talked about two kinds of summoning, the magical copy one and summoning actual Daedra.
@DracaneYou have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
Have you played a TES game? If you played Skyrim then you'd know your assumptions are wrong. For the conjuration master spell you summon the same daedra 3 times and every time you "kill" him he gets banished back to Oblivion...he's not a magical copy though, it's the same exact daedra. The 3rd time you summon him you tell him something along the lines of "do I have to banish you again or will you submit because I can do this all day". You then order him to retrieve a sigil stone, he tells you to banish him again so he can get it from Oblivion then summon him again and he'll have it.1 -
Cryptical✭✭✭✭✭
✭catalyst10e wrote: »Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Unless your video is of Todd Howard saying "Ignore all in-game references, The Conjuration school can create magical copies" Its probably not going to amount to much, but by all means find one.
While we wait, here's some in-game books to help you
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Origins_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Principles_of_Conjuration
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Tragedy_in_Black
All in-game references specifically stating conjuration is the act of pulling a Daedra from oblivion and binding it. One of the books even makes mention the binding part is where a lot of mages go wrong, and we can even see this in the game as we can randomly run into a conjurer who gets attacked by their own summoned creature, and we have the option of saving them.
Nope. Unlike you, I don't shot unnecessary quotes and bokes at people. I actually play the game and will present you a nice recording+ lessons, on what the difference between conjuring and summoning is.KaleidoscopeEyz wrote: »Catalyst vs Dracane. Sorry, I'm giving this one to Catalyst. You got served.
Nobody got served. Because he is wrong and I will prove that soon.
If you need video, make a video of yourself finding those 2 conjuration books straight from your own screen, and watch your own video and learn from it. And then make a video of finding the Tragedy book in Skyrim, watch that video to learn from it as well. That's if you only take video proof, and cannot trust your own eyes as you play the game in your own home.
All it takes is to enter the game and see it for yourself. But if you cannot handle that, then make vids of yourself doing it and then watch the vids. Have fun with that.Xbox NA2 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »
If you read what he wrote you would have seen that he talked about two kinds of summoning, the magical copy one and summoning actual Daedra.
@DracaneYou have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
Have you played a TES game? If you played Skyrim then you'd know your assumptions are wrong. For the conjuration master spell you summon the same daedra 3 times and every time you "kill" him he gets banished back to Oblivion...he's not a magical copy though, it's the same exact daedra. The 3rd time you summon him you tell him something along the lines of "do I have to banish you again or will you submit because I can do this all day". You then order him to retrieve a sigil stone, he tells you to banish him again so he can get it from Oblivion then summon him again and he'll have it.
except for the part where the magical copy one doesn't exist. "Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]1 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
I don't understand how you can be this dense. It says it in the tool tip. You can't get any more accurate then the description of the spell. THAT is undeniable. How can you claim something without any proof? And if you read he actual text I linked before "I was summoned by a mortal" it even describes a Dremora on guard duty who gets pulled into the realm when someone uses a conjuration spell. It's literally all right there in plain view in the game. What are you basing your info off of? a feeling you have?
You only need your eyes and some understanding.
Then you will be able to see the difference between these 2 things.
I just don't know, what else I can tell you.
You are wrong and catalyst is right. You are making fanfic like assumptions on the nature of magic when there is lore info there
No assumptions.
Some summons just vanish and some leave a body afterwards. It has always been this way and these 2 are different versions.
How can you even fight this ? That's just how it is O.o I really don't understand why you keep saying otherwise, while it's more than obvious.
No assumptions? Yet you have no proof to your claims. That's literally the definition of Assumption. But don't take my word for it... here's Oxford's Defition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/assumption
What summon sticks around after you've killed them? The only thing I can think of that might be causing your confusion, is that you may be confusing all Daedra with summoned Daedra. As with the case of say.... A Daedra currently in Bruma. If you kill him, he falls dead and lays there for a time, allowing you to loot him. This Daedra wasn't brought to Nirn by magical means,(or at least a summoned magical means) they opened a portal and walked in. It's not the same as being summoned.
Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from. This is how it has always worked going as far back as TES III: Morrowind. All in-game lore and references back this up. To deny it is to outright refuse the truth itself. Maybe its because you personally don't like the idea of pulling unwilling subject every time you summon one, or you like to think of them as your friend. But this here is the truth of the matter, indisputable proof from the people who made the games. The ONLY time I was able to find anything remotely referring to magical copies, was specifically the bound weapon spells of TES V: Skyrim, as they look to be made from magic, and are the only known spells to have done that.
You have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
No, I do not mistake wild Daedra in the sewers or elsewhere as summoned Daedra.
But there are spells that summon a temporary unstable Daedra and ones that conjure a physical Daedra from Oblivion.
Come on, seriously. You can't be serious with all your posts
Yet another assumption based on no facts.
Yes you've caught me, I just like to hang out on forums of games I never play and argue lore with strangers. /sarcasm over
Are you at all serious? Show me. Prove what you're talking about. Lets see some evidence to your claim.
Well I've have you know that you both are wrong & right. Like did you guys forget your thorough conjuration lessons from Oblivion & Skyrim.
Dremora cannot take form in Nirn without a focus from the realm wither it a spell or a object.
If a dremora is bound to a plane via a spell it will disperse back to oblivion when the magic holding it expires.
In the case of objects such as Dark-Anchors the dremora souls are bound to the objects like a Prison allowing for their bodies to remain.
Sigal stones are the pinon/conduit to planar focuses used by mehrunes dagon, which is why after dispelling one in oblivion you'd 'banish all the deadra deposited from that portal.
Case with the failed ransack of bruma end of 3 era.
However the soul of a dremora can be rebound to an object by claiming its heart. Also keeping its form bound to either plane.
There are also cases of dremora in cold harbor that are unbound from there position of servitude to the dark lord that are banished immediately. This happens in "The Citidel Must Fall" quest to Valkynaz Seris when Lyranth usurps his position as keeper of the citidel. An alternative form of this binding can be seen with the quick reanimation of the Observer do to the strong focus of his position. Bound to cold harbor, banished in cold harbor, the cliffs of failure have been the sole position existence & thus not to unfamiliar to hes essence for his quick return. Similar to Durnehviir's quick recovery in the soul cairn as he also explains.
One Dremora known to be an exception to the rule is Herald Kixathi from the bangkori Mistress of the lake quest, who explains her exceptional stats as being somewhat of a self bound dremora, via some secret of Hermaeus mora, suggesting he & some of his followers can freely enter nirn without mortal assistance. Though he generally only seems to appear near shines of him or in the confines/conduits of his followers.
Similarly said its is also something to note that daedric lords seem to have to posses forms of there followers or sacrifices in order to take partial presence in Nirn if not by there shrines. The pre-oblivion crises Sheograth seemed to be an exception to this rule though it can not be certain what realm he was in during the mages guild quest. Said also, he was the only Daedric lord capable of maintaining a portal presence after Akatosh shut the path between Nirn & oblivion during/after the crisis. Suggesting that Jyggalag had subserviently deduced a way to gain a presence in nirn that only he & Hermaeus mora knew thanks to the tear in his existence.
All to be said though it does not seem as if a daedric lord can't actually take substantial presence in nirn unless enough of their essence has been leaked threw via conventional summoning methods & sacrifices. As you should know in the case of sacrifices it works the same way in which it does spells, were the souls attunement to mundus is used as an anchor points to help further dive oblivion aspects towards nirn.
Really the process can be compared to these forum threads, were these conjurations must maintain focus, stay casted, or suffer a slow return to oblivion.Edited by Pinja on September 21, 2016 2:01AM0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭JamieAubrey wrote: »I've never asked myself this as my main is a Sorc
Welcome to knowledge factory of Masters Adept.Edited by Pinja on September 21, 2016 2:04AM0 -
Vangy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Makes me a little sad I worked so hard to get the frost atro slayer achieve.... They were just poor harmless things forced to do someone else's bidding TT.TT(2)V16 Dk- stam dps/stam tank/mag dps
(2)V16 Sorc- mag dps/stam dps
(2)V16 nb- stam dps/mag dps
(1)v16 temp- mag tank/mag dps
CP: 610 and counting
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates! Viva la revolutionz0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
LMAO he brings facts to the argument and you bring your opinion stating it as fact. Jeezus are you thick.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think that Loremaster Lawrence Schick should express his opinion in this matter and decide who is right (if anyone) xD
O for heavens sakes it's in the lore of ES that there are always at least two or three probable explanations, and none will every really be confirmed.catalyst10e wrote: »Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from.
And ... the devil is in the details.
I will buy that conjuration spells pull the creature in question and death or unsummoning sends it back.
This doesn't prohibit an ongoing relationship between a person (or more likely a family line) and any particular daedra.
For that matter, the group I play with all recognize that when a Daedroth is "summoned" but the monster helm, it is/they are "Dave" who is a friend, is curious about Tamriel, and is not subject to the normal limits of space and time. Makes things hilarious at time.
Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
I don't understand how you can be this dense. It says it in the tool tip. You can't get any more accurate then the description of the spell. THAT is undeniable. How can you claim something without any proof? And if you read he actual text I linked before "I was summoned by a mortal" it even describes a Dremora on guard duty who gets pulled into the realm when someone uses a conjuration spell. It's literally all right there in plain view in the game. What are you basing your info off of? a feeling you have?
You only need your eyes and some understanding.
Then you will be able to see the difference between these 2 things.
I just don't know, what else I can tell you.
You are wrong and catalyst is right. You are making fanfic like assumptions on the nature of magic when there is lore info there
No assumptions.
Some summons just vanish and some leave a body afterwards. It has always been this way and these 2 are different versions.
How can you even fight this ? That's just how it is O.o I really don't understand why you keep saying otherwise, while it's more than obvious.
No assumptions? Yet you have no proof to your claims. That's literally the definition of Assumption. But don't take my word for it... here's Oxford's Defition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/assumption
What summon sticks around after you've killed them? The only thing I can think of that might be causing your confusion, is that you may be confusing all Daedra with summoned Daedra. As with the case of say.... A Daedra currently in Bruma. If you kill him, he falls dead and lays there for a time, allowing you to loot him. This Daedra wasn't brought to Nirn by magical means,(or at least a summoned magical means) they opened a portal and walked in. It's not the same as being summoned.
Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from. This is how it has always worked going as far back as TES III: Morrowind. All in-game lore and references back this up. To deny it is to outright refuse the truth itself. Maybe its because you personally don't like the idea of pulling unwilling subject every time you summon one, or you like to think of them as your friend. But this here is the truth of the matter, indisputable proof from the people who made the games. The ONLY time I was able to find anything remotely referring to magical copies, was specifically the bound weapon spells of TES V: Skyrim, as they look to be made from magic, and are the only known spells to have done that.
You have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
No, I do not mistake wild Daedra in the sewers or elsewhere as summoned Daedra.
But there are spells that summon a temporary unstable Daedra and ones that conjure a physical Daedra from Oblivion.
Come on, seriously. You can't be serious with all your posts
Yet another assumption based on no facts.
Yes you've caught me, I just like to hang out on forums of games I never play and argue lore with strangers. /sarcasm over
Are you at all serious? Show me. Prove what you're talking about. Lets see some evidence to your claim.
Well I've have you know that you both are wrong & right. Like did you guys forget your thorough conjuration lessons from Oblivion & Skyrim.
Dremora cannot take form in Nirn without a focus from the realm wither it a spell or a object.
If a dremora is bound to a plane via a spell it will disperse back to oblivion when the magic holding it expires.
In the case of objects such as Dark-Anchors the dremora souls are bound to the objects like a Prison allowing for their bodies to remain.
Sigal stones are the pinon/conduit to planar focuses used by mehrunes dagon, which is why after dispelling one in oblivion you'd 'banish all the deadra deposited from that portal.
Case with the failed ransack of bruma end of 3 era.
However the soul of a dremora can be rebound to an object by claiming its heart. Also keeping its form bound to either plane.
There are also cases of dremora in cold harbor that are unbound from there position of servitude to the dark lord that are banished immediately. This happens in "The Citidel Must Fall" quest to Valkynaz Seris when Lyranth usurps his position as keeper of the citidel. An alternative form of this binding can be seen with the quick reanimation of the Observer do to the strong focus of his position. Bound to cold harbor, banished in cold harbor, the cliffs of failure have been the sole position existence & thus not to unfamiliar to hes essence for his quick return. Similar to Durnehviir's quick recovery in the soul cairn as he also explains.
One Dremora known to be an exception to the rule is Herald Kixathi from the bangkori Mistress of the lake quest, who explains her exceptional stats as being somewhat of a self bound dremora, via some secret of Hermaeus mora, suggesting he & some of his followers can freely enter nirn without mortal assistance. Though he generally only seems to appear near shines of him or in the confines/conduits of his followers.
Similarly said its is also something to note that daedric lords seem to have to posses forms of there followers or sacrifices in order to take partial presence in Nirn if not by there shrines. The pre-oblivion crises Sheograth seemed to be an exception to this rule though it can not be certain what realm he was in during the mages guild quest. Said also, he was the only Daedric lord capable of maintaining a portal presence after Akatosh shut the path between Nirn & oblivion during/after the crisis. Suggesting that Jyggalag had subserviently deduced a way to gain a presence in nirn that only he & Hermaeus mora knew thanks to the tear in his existence.
All to be said though it does not seem as if a daedric lord can't actually take substantial presence in nirn unless enough of their essence has been leaked threw via conventional summoning methods & sacrifices. As you should know in the case of sacrifices it works the same way in which it does spells, were the souls attunement to mundus is used as an anchor points to help further dive oblivion aspects towards nirn.
Really the process can be compared to these forum threads, were these conjurations must maintain focus, stay casted, or suffer a slow return to oblivion.
This is all lovely information, thank you for your time. However, the argument I was having with OP was the idea that conjuration finds a way to pull or bind a dremora or other such creature from the plane of oblivion to Nirn (which you more or less cover the various ways that can happen) OP was stating the mage creates a copy of a dremora out of pure magic. (similar to the flaming familiar spell in TES V Skyrim) I used several in-game lore sources to state it's a known fact that when you summon (for example) a dremora, you are pulling one from oblivion. I even clarified they didnt specifically mean opening a portal and allowing them to appear. OP feels that the mage uses their own memory of what a Dremora looks and acts like, and using pure magic creates a copy.Makes me a little sad I worked so hard to get the frost atro slayer achieve.... They were just poor harmless things forced to do someone else's bidding TT.TT
I wouldnt worry about it too much, all deaths in service to their lord is considered an honor, and furthermore, they didnt really die, they'll return to their plane and reform eventually.newtinmpls wrote: »I think that Loremaster Lawrence Schick should express his opinion in this matter and decide who is right (if anyone) xD
O for heavens sakes it's in the lore of ES that there are always at least two or three probable explanations, and none will every really be confirmed.catalyst10e wrote: »Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from.
And ... the devil is in the details.
I will buy that conjuration spells pull the creature in question and death or unsummoning sends it back.
This doesn't prohibit an ongoing relationship between a person (or more likely a family line) and any particular daedra.
For that matter, the group I play with all recognize that when a Daedroth is "summoned" but the monster helm, it is/they are "Dave" who is a friend, is curious about Tamriel, and is not subject to the normal limits of space and time. Makes things hilarious at time.
For the record I never stated it wasnt possible to summon the same creature over and over. In fact in TES V: Skyrim, you do just that when summoning an unbound dremora. The actual reform process mentions "it can take centuries" to reform, however that doesnt stop it from taking minutes, hours, or days. I'm all for the idea that you are summoning the same daedra over and over, as long as it's recognized it's a real daedra and not some sort of copy the helm is producing on it's own.Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Been over a month, I still havn't seen this video btw."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I've been saying all along the mages guild is creepy and hardly a 'heroic' guild.
The mage's guild probably doesn't want to be heroic anyway
I wish we could translate Templar abilities. But Aedric signs aren't known to us.
Agreed. I'm just pointing out what others have said about the Mages Guild. I do think Vanus Galerion seems to want to be a hero, but he's also a big mad as well. The Aedric signs are interesting as well, I agree with you I wish those could be discernable.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Pinja✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
I don't understand how you can be this dense. It says it in the tool tip. You can't get any more accurate then the description of the spell. THAT is undeniable. How can you claim something without any proof? And if you read he actual text I linked before "I was summoned by a mortal" it even describes a Dremora on guard duty who gets pulled into the realm when someone uses a conjuration spell. It's literally all right there in plain view in the game. What are you basing your info off of? a feeling you have?
You only need your eyes and some understanding.
Then you will be able to see the difference between these 2 things.
I just don't know, what else I can tell you.
You are wrong and catalyst is right. You are making fanfic like assumptions on the nature of magic when there is lore info there
No assumptions.
Some summons just vanish and some leave a body afterwards. It has always been this way and these 2 are different versions.
How can you even fight this ? That's just how it is O.o I really don't understand why you keep saying otherwise, while it's more than obvious.
No assumptions? Yet you have no proof to your claims. That's literally the definition of Assumption. But don't take my word for it... here's Oxford's Defition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/assumption
What summon sticks around after you've killed them? The only thing I can think of that might be causing your confusion, is that you may be confusing all Daedra with summoned Daedra. As with the case of say.... A Daedra currently in Bruma. If you kill him, he falls dead and lays there for a time, allowing you to loot him. This Daedra wasn't brought to Nirn by magical means,(or at least a summoned magical means) they opened a portal and walked in. It's not the same as being summoned.
Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from. This is how it has always worked going as far back as TES III: Morrowind. All in-game lore and references back this up. To deny it is to outright refuse the truth itself. Maybe its because you personally don't like the idea of pulling unwilling subject every time you summon one, or you like to think of them as your friend. But this here is the truth of the matter, indisputable proof from the people who made the games. The ONLY time I was able to find anything remotely referring to magical copies, was specifically the bound weapon spells of TES V: Skyrim, as they look to be made from magic, and are the only known spells to have done that.
You have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
No, I do not mistake wild Daedra in the sewers or elsewhere as summoned Daedra.
But there are spells that summon a temporary unstable Daedra and ones that conjure a physical Daedra from Oblivion.
Come on, seriously. You can't be serious with all your posts
Yet another assumption based on no facts.
Yes you've caught me, I just like to hang out on forums of games I never play and argue lore with strangers. /sarcasm over
Are you at all serious? Show me. Prove what you're talking about. Lets see some evidence to your claim.
Well I've have you know that you both are wrong & right. Like did you guys forget your thorough conjuration lessons from Oblivion & Skyrim.
Dremora cannot take form in Nirn without a focus from the realm wither it a spell or a object.
If a dremora is bound to a plane via a spell it will disperse back to oblivion when the magic holding it expires.
In the case of objects such as Dark-Anchors the dremora souls are bound to the objects like a Prison allowing for their bodies to remain.
Sigal stones are the pinon/conduit to planar focuses used by mehrunes dagon, which is why after dispelling one in oblivion you'd 'banish all the deadra deposited from that portal.
Case with the failed ransack of bruma end of 3 era.
However the soul of a dremora can be rebound to an object by claiming its heart. Also keeping its form bound to either plane.
There are also cases of dremora in cold harbor that are unbound from there position of servitude to the dark lord that are banished immediately. This happens in "The Citidel Must Fall" quest to Valkynaz Seris when Lyranth usurps his position as keeper of the citidel. An alternative form of this binding can be seen with the quick reanimation of the Observer do to the strong focus of his position. Bound to cold harbor, banished in cold harbor, the cliffs of failure have been the sole position existence & thus not to unfamiliar to hes essence for his quick return. Similar to Durnehviir's quick recovery in the soul cairn as he also explains.
One Dremora known to be an exception to the rule is Herald Kixathi from the bangkori Mistress of the lake quest, who explains her exceptional stats as being somewhat of a self bound dremora, via some secret of Hermaeus mora, suggesting he & some of his followers can freely enter nirn without mortal assistance. Though he generally only seems to appear near shines of him or in the confines/conduits of his followers.
Similarly said its is also something to note that daedric lords seem to have to posses forms of there followers or sacrifices in order to take partial presence in Nirn if not by there shrines. The pre-oblivion crises Sheograth seemed to be an exception to this rule though it can not be certain what realm he was in during the mages guild quest. Said also, he was the only Daedric lord capable of maintaining a portal presence after Akatosh shut the path between Nirn & oblivion during/after the crisis. Suggesting that Jyggalag had subserviently deduced a way to gain a presence in nirn that only he & Hermaeus mora knew thanks to the tear in his existence.
All to be said though it does not seem as if a daedric lord can't actually take substantial presence in nirn unless enough of their essence has been leaked threw via conventional summoning methods & sacrifices. As you should know in the case of sacrifices it works the same way in which it does spells, were the souls attunement to mundus is used as an anchor points to help further dive oblivion aspects towards nirn.
Really the process can be compared to these forum threads, were these conjurations must maintain focus, stay casted, or suffer a slow return to oblivion.
This is all lovely information, thank you for your time. However, the argument I was having with OP was the idea that conjuration finds a way to pull or bind a dremora or other such creature from the plane of oblivion to Nirn (which you more or less cover the various ways that can happen) OP was stating the mage creates a copy of a dremora out of pure magic. (similar to the flaming familiar spell in TES V Skyrim) I used several in-game lore sources to state it's a known fact that when you summon (for example) a dremora, you are pulling one from oblivion. I even clarified they didnt specifically mean opening a portal and allowing them to appear. OP feels that the mage uses their own memory of what a Dremora looks and acts like, and using pure magic creates a copy.Makes me a little sad I worked so hard to get the frost atro slayer achieve.... They were just poor harmless things forced to do someone else's bidding TT.TT
I wouldnt worry about it too much, all deaths in service to their lord is considered an honor, and furthermore, they didnt really die, they'll return to their plane and reform eventually.newtinmpls wrote: »I think that Loremaster Lawrence Schick should express his opinion in this matter and decide who is right (if anyone) xD
O for heavens sakes it's in the lore of ES that there are always at least two or three probable explanations, and none will every really be confirmed.catalyst10e wrote: »Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from.
And ... the devil is in the details.
I will buy that conjuration spells pull the creature in question and death or unsummoning sends it back.
This doesn't prohibit an ongoing relationship between a person (or more likely a family line) and any particular daedra.
For that matter, the group I play with all recognize that when a Daedroth is "summoned" but the monster helm, it is/they are "Dave" who is a friend, is curious about Tamriel, and is not subject to the normal limits of space and time. Makes things hilarious at time.
For the record I never stated it wasnt possible to summon the same creature over and over. In fact in TES V: Skyrim, you do just that when summoning an unbound dremora. The actual reform process mentions "it can take centuries" to reform, however that doesnt stop it from taking minutes, hours, or days. I'm all for the idea that you are summoning the same daedra over and over, as long as it's recognized it's a real daedra and not some sort of copy the helm is producing on it's own.Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Been over a month, I still havn't seen this video btw.
Well that is another thing where you both are wrong & right. It's is common misconception that Atronachs are daedra. While OP was wrong for calling them that, they are somewhat magical copies though each one created is its own individual. As a matter Atronachs are more so Aedra then they are Daedra as they are aspects of the Star Orphan Mnemo-Li or the Mage. Unlike Daedra which most originate from chaotic creatia , all Atronachs are crafted via some magic from the natural elemental essences that coat nirn & other planes. Frostcrag Spire from the oblivion dlc, let players take part in the process by forging new Atronachs for their unbound service. While most summoned atronachs spells teach binding threw Daedric magic, the freedom of unbound atronachs is displayed in various places across ES. In Craglorn for example, the conjured air atronachs are original generations/copies of atronachs that were formed & insufficiently bound to wine up killing their creators. As an oblivion independent ramification the atronachs were not banished to any plane as a result, & can sustain themselves as long as they can find & absorb a sufficient source of magic. Which a number of them did at the Spell scar.
The Storm atronachs there can be used to display this concept as they all appear to have been formally bound via conventional daedric methods, now dispersed, freed by the death of their late conjurers.
As Displayed:
Unbound Shackles- No rune Inscription.In this sense the conjured Atronachs originally depicted by OP are nothing more then magical congealments taking form in preconceived universal formations of magic. IE: Copies which can be modified in several derivations by the conjurer to create more powerful or manipulable forms before the structure becomes more unstable or unidentifiable mutant slave orphans.
Red: Summoned Atro's arm bindings
Blue: Wandering Atro's arm bindings
- - - - - - - - -
Red: Summoned Atro's leg bindings
Blue: Wandering Atro's leg bindings
Edited by Pinja on September 23, 2016 1:14AM0 -
catalyst10e✭✭✭✭catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »notimetocare wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »catalyst10e wrote: »Has no one read "I was summoned by a mortal" ?(link for reference: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/I_was_Summoned_by_a_Mortal ) Where else would the summoned creatures come from? Where did the idea of "temporary daedric copies" come from tho? The summon twilight ability will mention calling on azura to send you a twilight, but nothing i can find mentions making a copy of creatures. All in all tho, nice work tracking down and translating.
Yes, they are copies. You sacrifise some of your magicka, to summon a copy of a real Daedra.
This copy is unstable and only made of magicka. You can tell, because there is No Corpse, the Magicka just vanishes after the creature is dead.
An example for daedric conjuration in ESO would be Lady Malygda in the Imperial City. She conjures a bunch of real Spiderlings. Of course she is a higher Daedra, and conjuring so many at the same time is no problem for her. Daedric conjuring usually leaves red spheres, summoning blue/purple spheres.
A conjured creature, will leave a body because it is a real daedra, not just a copy.danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »"Hey ladies. How about I buy you a drink? No? What if I were to tell you I speak fluent deadric?"
Oh yes please *-* Some Summerset Ale please.
Daedra are not like humans they do not leave behind their body upon death they go back to oblivion. To quote the page on Daedra "Although they can be defeated, they are considered immortal, as their soul or animus is sent back to Oblivion in the event that their body is destroyed. When a Daedra's physical form is destroyed, weapons and other items may be taken, but not their armor, as it is bound to Oblivion. After being killed, a Daedra's soul will wander Oblivion and eventually re-constitute its original form; this tortuous period can last centuries."
Furthermore, as I mentioned before the Tooltip actually says "Call on Azura to send a winged twilight to fight at your side." It specifically mentions azura sending you a winged twilight, and makes no mention of you creating one out of magic.
The tooltip on the familiar states: "Command the powers of Oblivion to send a Daedric familiar to fight at your side." This makes mention of you calling on oblivion to send a familiar, and again makes no mention of a copy.
The argument could be easily made that what happens to the "corpse" is it's sent back to oblivion as well since it was only kept around using magic. Once the creature is dead the spell breaks, which would be the only anchor for them since it's what brought them there to begin with.
I'm sorry.... I can't help you then.
It's more than obvious, that Sorcerer summons are merely magical husks. They are made of pure magicka and that you can also see when they die.
It's undeniable, that there is daedric summoning and daedric conjuring.
One makes you summon magical copies that vanish upon death and the other makes you conjure real Daedra and their body is physical and will stay upon death.
This is a fact and you can quote as much as you want, it won't change this fact. Sorry
I don't understand how you can be this dense. It says it in the tool tip. You can't get any more accurate then the description of the spell. THAT is undeniable. How can you claim something without any proof? And if you read he actual text I linked before "I was summoned by a mortal" it even describes a Dremora on guard duty who gets pulled into the realm when someone uses a conjuration spell. It's literally all right there in plain view in the game. What are you basing your info off of? a feeling you have?
You only need your eyes and some understanding.
Then you will be able to see the difference between these 2 things.
I just don't know, what else I can tell you.
You are wrong and catalyst is right. You are making fanfic like assumptions on the nature of magic when there is lore info there
No assumptions.
Some summons just vanish and some leave a body afterwards. It has always been this way and these 2 are different versions.
How can you even fight this ? That's just how it is O.o I really don't understand why you keep saying otherwise, while it's more than obvious.
No assumptions? Yet you have no proof to your claims. That's literally the definition of Assumption. But don't take my word for it... here's Oxford's Defition http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/assumption
What summon sticks around after you've killed them? The only thing I can think of that might be causing your confusion, is that you may be confusing all Daedra with summoned Daedra. As with the case of say.... A Daedra currently in Bruma. If you kill him, he falls dead and lays there for a time, allowing you to loot him. This Daedra wasn't brought to Nirn by magical means,(or at least a summoned magical means) they opened a portal and walked in. It's not the same as being summoned.
Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from. This is how it has always worked going as far back as TES III: Morrowind. All in-game lore and references back this up. To deny it is to outright refuse the truth itself. Maybe its because you personally don't like the idea of pulling unwilling subject every time you summon one, or you like to think of them as your friend. But this here is the truth of the matter, indisputable proof from the people who made the games. The ONLY time I was able to find anything remotely referring to magical copies, was specifically the bound weapon spells of TES V: Skyrim, as they look to be made from magic, and are the only known spells to have done that.
You have never played an Elder scrolls game, that's the only explaination.
No, I do not mistake wild Daedra in the sewers or elsewhere as summoned Daedra.
But there are spells that summon a temporary unstable Daedra and ones that conjure a physical Daedra from Oblivion.
Come on, seriously. You can't be serious with all your posts
Yet another assumption based on no facts.
Yes you've caught me, I just like to hang out on forums of games I never play and argue lore with strangers. /sarcasm over
Are you at all serious? Show me. Prove what you're talking about. Lets see some evidence to your claim.
Well I've have you know that you both are wrong & right. Like did you guys forget your thorough conjuration lessons from Oblivion & Skyrim.
Dremora cannot take form in Nirn without a focus from the realm wither it a spell or a object.
If a dremora is bound to a plane via a spell it will disperse back to oblivion when the magic holding it expires.
In the case of objects such as Dark-Anchors the dremora souls are bound to the objects like a Prison allowing for their bodies to remain.
Sigal stones are the pinon/conduit to planar focuses used by mehrunes dagon, which is why after dispelling one in oblivion you'd 'banish all the deadra deposited from that portal.
Case with the failed ransack of bruma end of 3 era.
However the soul of a dremora can be rebound to an object by claiming its heart. Also keeping its form bound to either plane.
There are also cases of dremora in cold harbor that are unbound from there position of servitude to the dark lord that are banished immediately. This happens in "The Citidel Must Fall" quest to Valkynaz Seris when Lyranth usurps his position as keeper of the citidel. An alternative form of this binding can be seen with the quick reanimation of the Observer do to the strong focus of his position. Bound to cold harbor, banished in cold harbor, the cliffs of failure have been the sole position existence & thus not to unfamiliar to hes essence for his quick return. Similar to Durnehviir's quick recovery in the soul cairn as he also explains.
One Dremora known to be an exception to the rule is Herald Kixathi from the bangkori Mistress of the lake quest, who explains her exceptional stats as being somewhat of a self bound dremora, via some secret of Hermaeus mora, suggesting he & some of his followers can freely enter nirn without mortal assistance. Though he generally only seems to appear near shines of him or in the confines/conduits of his followers.
Similarly said its is also something to note that daedric lords seem to have to posses forms of there followers or sacrifices in order to take partial presence in Nirn if not by there shrines. The pre-oblivion crises Sheograth seemed to be an exception to this rule though it can not be certain what realm he was in during the mages guild quest. Said also, he was the only Daedric lord capable of maintaining a portal presence after Akatosh shut the path between Nirn & oblivion during/after the crisis. Suggesting that Jyggalag had subserviently deduced a way to gain a presence in nirn that only he & Hermaeus mora knew thanks to the tear in his existence.
All to be said though it does not seem as if a daedric lord can't actually take substantial presence in nirn unless enough of their essence has been leaked threw via conventional summoning methods & sacrifices. As you should know in the case of sacrifices it works the same way in which it does spells, were the souls attunement to mundus is used as an anchor points to help further dive oblivion aspects towards nirn.
Really the process can be compared to these forum threads, were these conjurations must maintain focus, stay casted, or suffer a slow return to oblivion.
This is all lovely information, thank you for your time. However, the argument I was having with OP was the idea that conjuration finds a way to pull or bind a dremora or other such creature from the plane of oblivion to Nirn (which you more or less cover the various ways that can happen) OP was stating the mage creates a copy of a dremora out of pure magic. (similar to the flaming familiar spell in TES V Skyrim) I used several in-game lore sources to state it's a known fact that when you summon (for example) a dremora, you are pulling one from oblivion. I even clarified they didnt specifically mean opening a portal and allowing them to appear. OP feels that the mage uses their own memory of what a Dremora looks and acts like, and using pure magic creates a copy.Makes me a little sad I worked so hard to get the frost atro slayer achieve.... They were just poor harmless things forced to do someone else's bidding TT.TT
I wouldnt worry about it too much, all deaths in service to their lord is considered an honor, and furthermore, they didnt really die, they'll return to their plane and reform eventually.newtinmpls wrote: »I think that Loremaster Lawrence Schick should express his opinion in this matter and decide who is right (if anyone) xD
O for heavens sakes it's in the lore of ES that there are always at least two or three probable explanations, and none will every really be confirmed.catalyst10e wrote: »Conjuration spells, put a temporary bind on the creature in question and pull it unwillingly to Nirn. Upon death they are banished back to where they came from.
And ... the devil is in the details.
I will buy that conjuration spells pull the creature in question and death or unsummoning sends it back.
This doesn't prohibit an ongoing relationship between a person (or more likely a family line) and any particular daedra.
For that matter, the group I play with all recognize that when a Daedroth is "summoned" but the monster helm, it is/they are "Dave" who is a friend, is curious about Tamriel, and is not subject to the normal limits of space and time. Makes things hilarious at time.
For the record I never stated it wasnt possible to summon the same creature over and over. In fact in TES V: Skyrim, you do just that when summoning an unbound dremora. The actual reform process mentions "it can take centuries" to reform, however that doesnt stop it from taking minutes, hours, or days. I'm all for the idea that you are summoning the same daedra over and over, as long as it's recognized it's a real daedra and not some sort of copy the helm is producing on it's own.Lieblingsjunge wrote: »Alter - Conjure - Shock. Alter means change, conjure means "affect by spell" or something & Shock can mean various things. Shock > Shock damage. A state of Shock(Circulatory shock or just.. a shock). Metaphoricially also used about someone who's shocked from e.g. observing something extraordinary or ooc.
I mean, without reading anything more into it, it seems to me that the words explain what a Sorc's mission in life is/should be. A Sorc changes the elements & magic to affect people or things with spells > leaving them in a state of shock. I'm putting my metaphors and literature education to good use here
Good one
@catalyst10e
Laughable. You will get your evidence in form of a video.
Even though all it takes, is you to enter the game and just see it yourself.
Been over a month, I still havn't seen this video btw.
Well that is another thing where you both are wrong & right. It's is common misconception that Atronachs are daedra. While OP was wrong for calling them that, they are somewhat magical copies though each one created is its own individual. As a matter Atronachs are more so Aedra then they are Daedra as they are aspects of the Star Orphan Mnemo-Li or the Mage. Unlike Daedra which most originate from chaotic creatia , all Atronachs are crafted via some magic from the natural elemental essences that coat nirn & other planes. Frostcrag Spire from the oblivion dlc, let players take part in the process by forging new Atronachs for their unbound service. While most summoned atronachs spells teach binding threw Daedric magic, the freedom of unbound atronachs is displayed in various places across ES. In Craglorn for example, the conjured air atronachs are original generations/copies of atronachs that were formed & insufficiently bound to wine up killing their creators. As an oblivion independent ramification the atronachs were not banished to any plane as a result, & can sustain themselves as long as they can find & absorb a sufficient source of magic. Which a number of them did at the Spell scar.
The Storm atronachs there can be used to display this concept as they all appear to have been formally bound via conventional daedric methods, now dispersed, freed by the death of their late conjurers.
As Displayed:
Unbound Shackles- No rune Inscription.In this sense the conjured Atronachs originally depicted by OP are nothing more then magical congealments taking form in preconceived universal formations of magic. IE: Copies which can be modified in several derivations by the conjurer to create more powerful or manipulable forms before the structure becomes more unstable or unidentifiable mutant slave orphans.
Red: Summoned Atro's arm bindings
Blue: Wandering Atro's arm bindings
- - - - - - - - -
Red: Summoned Atro's leg bindings
Blue: Wandering Atro's leg bindings
Is it possible to get any sources on this? Everything I know of, and everything I can find with brief searches of my normal sources list Atronachs as daedra, with the exception of golem-atronachs such as a flesh atronach, or a stone atronach. Furthermore, while you're doing an excellent job of filling in certain details, you're overlooking my overall point when you're attempting to claim we are both right and wrong.
My overall point was In this game and in most cases of the main games, and in all cases of this game (excluding times when you actually build a flesh atro, such as in the shivering isles expansion of oblivion) when using a conjuration spell, you are pulling the actual creature from the plane of oblivion, putting a temporary bind on it, and having it serve you for its duration. But even to simplify it to JUST this game, the tooltip states "Call on Azura to send a twilight matriarch to fight at your side." There is no "right and wrong" here, it's clearly stating the conjured creature is a real denizen of oblivion and not a magical construct. I've also sited several in-game lore books such as Principles of Conjuration which state: Conjuration is the arcane art of summoning creatures and items from other planes for the usage and benefit of the conjurer. Everything points to the idea that when the player is "casting" a conjuration spell, they are doing everything needed to pull a creature from oblivion and binding it, any of the other one-off situations are just that, one-off. (Such as the atronach golems you build in the mage tower, or the flesh atronach you build in the shivering isles) Your last line is the only thing I take issue with, as the tooltip for the Storm Atronach is specifically stating: "Summon a storm atronach at the target location." Summoning is not "creating". You are not putting it together, you're not calling on memories, and the binding spell which the OP translated should be further proof it's a real atronach from oblivion, as binding is a HUGE part of the whole summoning thing. The unbound one roaming around are their own thing, and a different topic of discussion altogether."Why settle for just stabbing your foes when you can roast them alive in a gout of arcane fire?"
[| DC Breton Sorcerer || NA PS4 || PSN: Catalyst10e |]
[| DC Dunmer Dragon Knight |]0
