Radiant Destruction AKA PVP/tamriel destruction

Pomaikai · July 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs etc.

And what ranged spell would that be? Snipe? Frag? Swallow soul? My dragon fire scale would like a word with you.

You essentailly stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.

Dragonknight reflect is limited to 4 projectiles. So no, i stated no such thing. You are using a straw man argument.

What i actually stated was that there is a difference between 4 templars spamming radiant destruction, and 4 of any other class spamming any other ranged spell, unlike the person i was replying to would have you believe.

And as for scales, DKs were given them for a reason. They are essentially a melee class, so they need to be able to defend themselves against ranged attackers. That does not make them impervious to ranged, but it does give their attackers something to think about, instead of mindlessly spamming their ranged attacks from behind a wall of friendly bodies.

And that's exactly what's wrong with RD: it can be mindlessly spammed with no regard to what your target is doing, or what it's health level is at, as evidenced by everyday cyrodiil experiences.

Do you see nightblades spamming killer's blade on full health enemies? Do you see sorcerers spamming mage's wrath on full health enemies? Nope. But templars jesus beaming full health enemies? Everywhere, everyday, and twice on sunday.

As well we should.

Cambion · July 2016

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

DRXHarbinger · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

That's really weak. Mine hits with 20k ticks. Much AP to be had. Btw don't hate the skill hate the AP and TV sinks. I need both and fast so if I have to fry you all then so be it.

Pomaikai · July 2016

Cambion wrote: »

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

Because it was designed that way.

Nefas · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

That is a pathetic thing to say, you're saying because I'm going to be dead either way it wont make a difference... it should make a difference and there should be a counter to it.

You're going to die anyway with a group on you - @Wrobel 2016

Moglijuana · July 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs etc.

And what ranged spell would that be? Snipe? Frag? Swallow soul? My dragon fire scale would like a word with you.

You essentailly stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.

Dragonknight reflect is limited to 4 projectiles. So no, i stated no such thing. You are using a straw man argument.

What i actually stated was that there is a difference between 4 templars spamming radiant destruction, and 4 of any other class spamming any other ranged spell, unlike the person i was replying to would have you believe.

And as for scales, DKs were given them for a reason. They are essentially a melee class, so they need to be able to defend themselves against ranged attackers. That does not make them impervious to ranged, but it does give their attackers something to think about, instead of mindlessly spamming their ranged attacks from behind a wall of friendly bodies.

And that's exactly what's wrong with RD: it can be mindlessly spammed with no regard to what your target is doing, or what it's health level is at, as evidenced by everyday cyrodiil experiences.

Do you see nightblades spamming killer's blade on full health enemies? Do you see sorcerers spamming mage's wrath on full health enemies? Nope. But templars jesus beaming full health enemies? Everywhere, everyday, and twice on sunday.

This. So much this.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · July 2016

I agree Templars need a strong instant cast spell to spam.

purple-magicb16_ESO · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

lol! who cast silver shards?! that so reminds me of this scene from Harlem Nights:

https://youtu.be/nNXxlYCU0aY

Pomaikai · July 2016

Cambion wrote: »

The range is a slight issue, but not that much of one really I think. The only thing I want to know is why does the execute start at 50%? I think that the execute range of all of them should be 20%.

Because it was designed that way.

purple-magicb16_ESO wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

lol! who cast silver shards?! that so reminds me of this scene from Harlem Nights:
https://youtu.be/nNXxlYCU0aY

The RD's didn't even do 20k damage between all four of them. Not one of them even hit the +300% damage increase point.

Dude, you died to Silver Shards! You might want to direct your ire there.

Oh, and heal more. You would have survived had you started healing the second you got lit up.

Hymzir · July 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Hymzir wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs etc.

And what ranged spell would that be? Snipe? Frag? Swallow soul? My dragon fire scale would like a word with you.

You essentailly stated that one skill, Scales, can shut down every other ranged attack except Radiant. So in otherwords, with that one skill, you can negate any ranged threat you face except Radiant. That you have no issues taking on 1v4, except against Templars since you can't just negate all their abilities with with that one skill.

Dragonknight reflect is limited to 4 projectiles. So no, i stated no such thing. You are using a straw man argument.

Actually I am not. You did also post this:

Sharee wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If any 4 of the same class cast a ranged spell you're going to die so why would you nerf one spell when this is no different than 2 NB's or 2-3 sorcs, DKs etc.

And what ranged spell would that be? Snipe? Frag? Swallow soul? My dragon fire scale would like a word with you.

For noobs that don't wait the 4 seconds after you signal with you wings.

Feel free to wait 4 seconds. And then 4 more seconds as i recast it. And then some more, just for fun.

So yes, you did indeed imply that by spamming that one skill Snipe, Frag, Swallow soul and what ever else those 4 players would spam at you would be no big deal, since you would just negate it all by spamming Scales.

What i actually stated was that there is a difference between 4 Templars spamming radiant destruction, and 4 of any other class spamming any other ranged spell, unlike the person i was replying to would have you believe.

And yes, you are indeed right. There is a difference with 4 Templars spamming Radiant and 4 whatever else spamming whatever else. The difference is that a DK's can ignore all other configurations of this scenario, except the 4 Templars Spamming Radiant.

When a non DK is faced with 4 whatever spamming whatever, they tend to die. Regardless of what skill is being spammed. That is the true difference you are alluding to. Unless they are dodge rollers who can also negate almost everything via dodge rolling. Or Sorcs... They used to to just shield stack through everything, but now they need to use their shields along with their superior mobility to get out of range of the spammers. But even so, they still have pretty solid defenses against most things.

So taking all that into account, why do you think so many Templars have stopped slotting Vampire's Bane and Dark Flare and just go with Radiant? Because it is the only bloody thing that will work reliably. It does crap DPS out of execute and is totally useless in 1v1 but at least it does some damage to DK's reflecting every other projectile. And as an added benefit it will also burn all those dodge rollers too.

And as for scales, DKs were given them for a reason. They are essentially a melee class, so they need to be able to defend themselves against ranged attackers. That does not make them impervious to ranged, but it does give their attackers something to think about, instead of mindlessly spamming their ranged attacks from behind a wall of friendly bodies.

The same logic can be applied to Templars too, and Radiant was given to them for a reason. Templars are a stationary class, so they need potent ranged options to deal with enemies. Their Execute is ranged because how else are they supposed to kill the enemies that found their house bit too discomforting and decided to take to the hills? Not like Templars can chase after them...

And that's exactly what's wrong with RD: it can be mindlessly spammed with no regard to what your target is doing, or what it's health level is at, as evidenced by everyday cyrodiil experiences.

Do you see nightblades spamming killer's blade on full health enemies? Do you see sorcerers spamming mage's wrath on full health enemies? Nope. But templars jesus beaming full health enemies? Everywhere, everyday, and twice on sunday.

All classes spam skills. What they spam differs from class to class. And they all spam them mindlessly. Each has it's own specific benefit as to why it is spammed. The reason Radiant is spammed is that it is a channel, and channels ignore Scales and Doge rolling. It is spammed because it is a ranged attack. And if you are on your dual swords bar, it's 'prolly the only ranged attack you have slotted there. And while it hits for crappy damage out of execute range it does hit for some damage at least. And it is also an execute so there is always a chicane that it will hit hard should the target take some other damage along the way.

The fact that it is also an execute makes the skill worth slotting. It does not however make it any stronger than any other skill that is mass spammed in ESO. In some situations it performs better than other spammed skills, but in other situations it performs worse. At the end of the day, the damage it puts out is in line with other skills.

The only real issue is that some builds are weak against it while having strong defenses against other forms of attack, and people running said builds want those same defenses to also cover Radiant. In essence they want their builds to not have any weaknesses and are not willing to make any compromises about covering up those weaknesses.

And just so we are all clear on this - I am not particularly happy with the skill myself. I have tons of issues with it, and would much rather it be replaced by something else. But simply nerfing it is a dumb move, and woul only appease those who donät want to adapt to it's presence in the game. Doing so would make the skill as dead in the water as all the other Dawns wrath abilities are. As it stands now, Radiant is a strong skill and in but well in line with how the other skills perform. Fixing it to be less antagonizing is 'prolly impossible, or would require a major overhaul of many sections of the game and I do not see that happening any time soon.

MisterBigglesworth · July 2016

ZOS always has the most helpful, relevant tips.

UltimaJoe777 · July 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

Silver Shards too stronk! Nerf it pl0x!

ADarklore · July 2016

So you're blaming a skill when several players were hitting you with the same skill at the same time... that doesn't sound like a skill problem, it just sounds like typical PvP... if you don't like it, run in a group like they are doing. That's like saying several NB's shouldn't be able to 'teleport strike' you at the same exact time... or how Bombard snares players and there are now groups of players using Bombard just for this purpose. Again, it's not a skill problem, it's just what happens when you play in an environment where players can group together.

Mojmir · July 2016

lol no

Kalante · July 2016

I find it funny that RD is 50% but killers blade a close range skill is 25%. LOL.

mistermutiny89 · July 2016

I've moved on from my Templar when pvping as it's definitely the easy mode of Pvp. If there were more undodgeable abilities in Pvp or a slight nerf to dodging people would be less inclined to use it.

Healing = nerfed
Shields = nerfed
Dodge = stronger than ever.

Strider_Roshin · July 2016

Right more Templars can run around as a pack and mow over everyone while taking almost no damage. It's ridiculous.

bebynnag · July 2016

i jot a lot of salt sent through my mail from a group of 7 templars all hitting my templar with Radient O, because they had to use their skill more than once! (im a tank and i just stood there in full crit resist holding block & popped my ulti heal)

Sharee · July 2016

Hymzir wrote: »

So yes, you did indeed imply that by spamming that one skill Snipe, Frag, Swallow soul and what ever else those 4 players would spam at you would be no big deal, since you would just negate it all by spamming Scales.

You are taking my words out of context. It was suggested that one can get around reflective scale by waiting 4 seconds. Which is nonsense, since the wings can just be recast, and that was what my reply was about. I never suggested that i am invulnerable to ranged, only that waiting is not the solution.

Hymzir wrote: »

When a non DK is faced with 4 whatever spamming whatever, they tend to die. Regardless of what skill is being spammed. That is the true difference you are alluding to.

A sorc can bolt away. A nightblade can cloak. A templar can just wave his hand and undo all the damage done to him. All in all, DK's have the worst survivability in this scenario, since the 4 reflects can be used up instantly by just two attackers weaving a skill with a LA.

Hymzir wrote: »

All classes spam skills. What they spam differs from class to class. And they all spam them mindlessly. Each has it's own specific benefit as to why it is spammed.

I am not talking about simply spamming a skill, i am talking about an execute being spammed at full health enemies and still being effective. Only templars can do that.

yvesfouquet4 · July 2016

KaiVox22 wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

yvesfouquet4 wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

u dont kill people with bashing and u can bash 1 target at the same time ^^

Who said anything about killing people with bash? If you're having trouble countering a skill, learn how to counter it. Bashing cancels the radiant channel.

Man You've no idea what are You talking about. In 1v1 scenarion yes You have a chance to counter it. In open pvp no freaking way. 4 templars stands around You each is 20-40 meters away and all of them spamming jesus beam. And You know what happends if You'll bash it? They keeping spamming it, and if Your hp goes under 50% You're dead because only 2 of them can kill You with instant 1st tick. It's impossibe to counter it.

Hey ''man''. Firstly who said anything about open pvp? Just because there are 4 people using radiant on someone doesn't automatically mean you're out in the middle of the field. Gap close, bash a couple of them, dodge roll away behind a wall or something. Keep an eye on your health and most importantly, l2p

u must be a superhero in pvp , i mean it sounds nice in theory but try it in the field haha, i have my doubts ull still live after all your actions

yvesfouquet4 · July 2016

Honestly im a magicka sorcerer,i have no trouble at all with templars beaming from 100% to 0% cuz i just shieldspamstack like its intended (thanks @Wrobel for 6 seconds, i spam it even more then pre patch).

So for me personally, i have no reason at all to complain about templars or Radiant Destruction / glory / oppression etc.

The only reason i started this opening topic, is that i see how PVP evolved after recent patch. And the reason is clearly that BoL and radiant made the class so much easymode for anyone, that everyone rerolled. Even though Radiant was exactly the same pre patch and now, no one complained about it pre patch. Now with the whole reroll templar patch it starting to become a problem.

I could make a topic about DK's too since there scales are OP and completely negate my sorc class to trash, but i have a few ways to counter it or at least if i cant kill a DK he wont kill me either, due to solutions/counters.

RD / BOL combo just does NOT make this possible. And i do not ask for any skill nerf like stated 10 times already, but make an executioner skill a real execute, not a 100% undodgeable superbe long ranged heavy hitting skill (even above the execute range). Make it hit like a nuke within execute range then i agree, but 50% health execute is way too high tbh. Its also not correct that it does decent damage above 50% of health... Sorc has 20% executer? 2hand has the 50% one but its not hitting that hard and dodgeable eventually, so it makes it acceptable. and these execute skill hit like *** when not in execute range.

And last remark is that i totally AGREE that if you are outnumbered you should die if you stand within any skills range. If i go against 4 DK's ill die too, if i go against 4 nb's ill die too and same for sorcs. But lets say i accidentally run into 4 sorcs/DK's/nb with full resources, well at least i have a CHANCE to get away by dodgerolling and sprinting hiding whatsoever.

If you run into 4 templars, and they all start beaming you at 100%, well by the time you made a 40 meter GAP between you and them you are SO SO SO dead, because there is simply not a single way to avoid being hit by it. Ofcourse my first reaction is look for an object to get out of line of sight, but it has to be really really close to have a chance at all.

And i think that is the only problem with the skill, the whole mechanic behind it. And nerfing the execute range from lets say 50% to 35/30% would in my opinion not bother any decent PVE'er at all, since not 1 good PVE magplar will use RD on targets higher then 30%. U need to reapply dots etc anyway.

The balance in PVP in general is messed up in many ways, sadly

yvesfouquet4 · July 2016

And i think in addition to all of this if there are this many topics about Radiant that there is quite something wrong ^^ :

OneKhajiitCrimeWave · July 2016

yvesfouquet4 wrote: »

And i think in addition to all of this if there are this many topics about Radiant that there is quite something wrong ^^ :

Yes, too many milksops who are in the 'Nerf Everybody Except Me!' camps on the forums with too much time.

Noerknhar · July 2016

Putting this on a more serious level rather than "nerf everything!" or "l2p" or whatever:

I think that RD has a couple of design flaws, as already outlined by @Sharee :

And that's exactly what's wrong with RD: it can be mindlessly spammed with no regard to what your target is doing, or what it's health level is at, as evidenced by everyday cyrodiil experiences.

Do you see nightblades spamming killer's blade on full health enemies? Do you see sorcerers spamming mage's wrath on full health enemies? Nope. But templars jesus beaming full health enemies? Everywhere, everyday, and twice on sunday.

This is exactly the thing. It's a one button show.

If you kill someone by combining the strengths of your class, your group, your build, your playstyle - that's one thing. But if you simply press a single button (and it's a channeled ability, so you might only have to press it once as well!) to go for the kill, something's wrong.

Now all the templars or forum police or just plain haters will say "heal yourself" or "shield yourself" or "block" or "LoS" or whatever, but I don't care. RD is overpowered in it's current state, and nothing you say will make this different.

(plus: You can't dodge it, you can only block or LoS it (have you ever tried LoSing in open space?). )

SlayerTheDragon · July 2016

We really need an Ultimate Death Recap thread started. I really enjoyed this one.

KingYogi415 · July 2016

Lets all QQ until we just hold hands and tickle each other with pillows!

With enough nerf threads we the carebears can win this game!

TequilaFire · July 2016

And you are using the tired cliche "straw man argument" as a straw man argument. lmao
And yes I do see people spamming the skills in your rebuttal all the time.

me_ming · July 2016

Kalante wrote: »

I find it funny that RD is 50% but killers blade a close range skill is 25%. LOL.

I find it funny how stamNB have an execute while stamTemplars don't (class skills wise).

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

Yesterday I took 20k radiant damage with 27k Health and my character died.

Still i have not complaint about nerf! If you dodge in backward direction or increase gap Radiant breaks.

I do not know why people want the whole game to nerf! this is only templar best executioner + they are using now a days as Main DPS...

I also have templar character and I use this skill mainly but its not like a killing spree...guys learn game and avoid mistakes instead of asking Nerf! Nerf!

Lord_Eomer · July 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

KaiVox22 wrote: »

Solution: gap close and bash those mothertruckers

How do you gap close and bash 4 different people casting it on you at once.. as a magicka build

That's really weak. Mine hits with 20k ticks. Much AP to be had. Btw don't hate the skill hate the AP and TV sinks. I need both and fast so if I have to fry you all then so be it.

It looks like multiple players attack you with Radiant, common if multiple players attack you with any skill. You will die...