UPDATE: Zenimax official statment of gap closers being an exploit in here

Loves_guars · July 2016

Good news, gw Zenimax

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom You know that this mechanic is broken. It doesn't appear to be a top priority for you guys to fix. Instead you're creating a witch hunt and banning players?

PeggymoeXD · July 2016

Let's be real people. They've officially come out and announced that it is indeed an exploit recently. If players accused and 100% found guilty of using 3rd party software to manipulate the way the game works to their own advantage can be allowed to return to the game, I highly doubt anyone is getting banned before this recent announcement.

Cinnamon_Spider · July 2016

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

Let's be real people. They've officially come out and announced that it is indeed an exploit recently. If players accused and 100% found guilty of using 3rd party software to manipulate the way the game works to their own advantage can be allowed to return to the game, I highly doubt anyone is getting banned before this recent announcement.

At least one person already was.

Van_0S · July 2016

One thing is for certain that the exploiters have shamed their names to the ground!

rfennell_ESO · July 2016

Zenetrax wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Not to also throw rocks on your parade but, ( Pick's up rocks).

The fact of the matter is that.
1. How long have we let stuff go on like this?
People have been using abilities to do unintended stuff in PVP and PVE for the longest time...
2. It takes a massive crap storm to appear on the forums to get any response from you and or your co workers..
3. If someone is using abilities that they know that has unintended reactions... no more 3 day banns... PERMA banns.. stop messing around.
4. Look at Blizzard and other such Dev Company s... they have a no bull sh!t policy on cheating and or exploiting..
5. Now we have people who use these abilities to have a unfair advantage on the other players. and claim that is is a L2P issues when in fact it is a ( hey yes this is glitchy, you better not use it in a bad way .. or permma bann)

IT IS TIME FOR THE SECOND BANN WAVE.

There was a first ban wave?

Ban exploiters? Exploiters are just using in-game holes. Cheaters, in fact, use third-party programs that aren't in-game, made them god mode, and they got unbanned. If exploiters will do get a perma ban they will going to get unbanned eventually.

I guess what you are missing is that the exploiters are also the cheaters.

The people you see exploiting the charge bug don't stop at "exploiting" hence the fact that they accidently dodge most attacks once they have exploited up into the keep.

Little K, Fat J and the dodge everything squad are obviously doing both. As are many of the commonly exploiting people.

Some_Guy · July 2016

Ban exploiters. Yes.
1st offense, a 12 hour ban (like what one of my friends was handed today after the idiot did something he knew was wrong). 2nd offense, maybe a 3 day ban or 7 day, depending on the severity. After that, permaban.
One got banned recently (those who've been following this know who) and he deserved it. This isn't the first ban he's received. He was warned numerous times not to exploit, and he did it anyway. He admitted to exploiting. He knew what he was doing was wrong and didn't care. Even said so himself. He got what he deserved.
I just wish ZOS would be more vigilant in being swift and fair with this and those CE users, because yeah, they deserved more than just a couple of days too.

TARAFRAKA · July 2016

Whew that was a long thread. And I'm outta popcorn.

yodased · July 2016

Yeah but it was for the most part civil and I think it will lead to more discussions of this nature. As long as we don't berate each other and the developers, we can talk about problems and potential solutions.

Bromburak · July 2016

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

We were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

We'll get clarification from both our Dev and Terms of Service teams about this specific example and let you know.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

This is a known issue since ages now and you told me that the DK fix is not that easy like Ambush on NB 2 a month ago.
So you basically cannot provide a solution but still allow every exploiter to continue because it has no consequences.
Please explain, why should customers accept this?

Now you apparently make a difference between outer and inner and you need clarification from Dev and Terms of Service team first.
In other words you are actually not working on a fix for DK even if you told me something else 4 weeks ago ->

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

So you actually want that players should decide where to set the limit what is right or wrong? Because that is how it looks like since couple month. Very disappointing.

Recremen · July 2016

Bromburak wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Curragraigue wrote: »

We were told back pre 1.6 on PC that the extended range DK leap was intended to be able to gap close from the outer towers to the inner wall breach or no breach of the inner wall I assume this has not changed and you just mean all other uses of gap closers to scale walls are exploits is that right?

We'll get clarification from both our Dev and Terms of Service teams about this specific example and let you know.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

This is a known issue since ages now and you told me that the DK fix is not that easy like Ambush on NB 2 a month ago.
So you basically cannot provide a solution but still allow every exploiter to continue because it has no consequences.
Please explain, why should customers accept this?

Now you make a difference between outer and inner and you need clarification from Dev and Terms of Service team first?
In other words you are actually not working on a fix for DK even if you told me something else couple weeks ago ...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/3048274/#Comment_3048274

I can't believe this right now, very disappointing.

There's no reason to jump down the community mangers' throats over this. Miscommunication among team members, technical staff, devs, or simple changes in direction/reconsideration are always at play. Really if it's not in a patch note or the ToS or some other high-order statement, you should take it with a grain of salt to begin with. Not everything said on the forums is gospel truth or set in stone.

Bromburak · July 2016

@ Recremen
Apparently you didn't follow the cheating and exploiting and gap closer thread in this forum.

Nobody is jumping on her throat and it's not her personal fault either but she is representing ZOS.
This needs clarification, no matter what you think.

It was stated more than once by ZOS that they are working on a fix for the DK and now we read that there is a possibility that actually nothing happened since then.

The silence and miscommunication when it comes to cheating or exploiting is not acceptable.
It's hard to trust in a company that needs to deal with exploiting and cheating when things like that happen all time.

KisoValley · July 2016

No doubt it's wrong but if ZOS can't fix this, which has an easy solution tbh, then I am in no way going to allow some *** NB spam sniping me from the top of a keep while boasting in whisper how I can't touch him allow to live. I will happily crit rush to him, dawnbreaker his face in and tbag him once I've gained my AP. I will then jump back off the keep and carry on on my merry way. If ZOS can't fix it then I'm not going to report anyone exploiting just to kill idiots. Sieging the keep is different but I rarely see anyone do that on EU PC (Or I just don't care enough about PvWall to notice).

Robbmrp · July 2016

Azurethe wrote: »

But I mean, its like, I look at the ground and there are like 30-40 AD dead, and I think like, this is pretty sad

Then I look at my AP per hour and it shows 160K and then I feel better about myself

Its wrong ofc, and its our issue, but its also ZOS' for breaking something so important to the game's structure

Nifty2g wrote: »

yodased wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hey everyone,

We are working on making some tweaks to certain gap closers that players are using to bypass core keep capture mechanics. It is not intended that gap closers be used to enter keeps without downing doors and/or walls, or enter areas you otherwise would not be able to without exploiting (below Dolmens, under water, etc.) While we are aware that players are using certain gap closers to do exactly these things, we do considered this behavior an exploit.

If you see another player exploiting in this manner, you can send us videos or other evidence by submitting a customer support ticket, by sending them to anyone on the Community or Moderation team here on the forums, or emailing us at community@elderscrollsonline.com.

Thank you!

But what happens if a new player not familiar with eso or a player who doesn't use forums walks into cyrodill all happy like and then happens to get onto a jeep but gets mass reported

Said player probably won't be happy about that, cause he or she might think it's just an added mechanic. I'm sure this happens quite a lot or is going to happen from now on

This is the worst case scenario, but a new player having used a gap closer in PvE and not flown around the world would use it in PvP and be like hmm thats strange.

Then ask, hey is this legit?

Then people say, nah, its bugged, don't do it.

Then they don't do it.

They don't get emperor and then troll kill hundreds of people inside a keep.

These are not the same

Judging from all the posts in here and what was even said "cheating is cheating"
I'd say yes they are the same

This is why personal with this sort of bug I don't think zos should start banning for it, because some people are doing it unintentionally

Also no one uses gap closers in pve, and when you think about it logically dragon leaping into a keep sounds like a mechanic and so does teleport strike onto a keep sounds like a mechanic.

I'm all for sorting exploits out but with one like this there's going to be a lot of innocents banned

@Nifty2g I agree with part of this. When someone gap closes a person running into a keep that's "unintentional". When they continue to Dragon leap to upper levels of keeps and outpost over and over and over again, there's NOTHING "unintentional" about that. IT is a clear exploit of a broken mechanic NOT working as intended. That's what this post is about as the Emp was consistently doing this specially to gain an advantage they normally shouldn't have.

Zenimax has even acknowledged that as a clear exploit. Anyone continuing to do so SHOULD be banned as they care nothing for the rules of the game. My templar can do this same move with Toppling charge yet it's not on either of my bars and won't be until this is fixed. These people are toxic players who do nothing but find exploits to take advantage of clear and simple. They don't deserve mercy, they don't deserve to play the game against people who don't exploit. If Zenimax wants to let them continue to play, maybe they will create a CHEATERS server and move those players over there.

yodased · July 2016

KisoValley wrote: »

No doubt it's wrong but if ZOS can't fix this, which has an easy solution tbh, then I am in no way going to allow some *** NB spam sniping me from the top of a keep while boasting in whisper how I can't touch him allow to live. I will happily crit rush to him, dawnbreaker his face in and tbag him once I've gained my AP. I will then jump back off the keep and carry on on my merry way. If ZOS can't fix it then I'm not going to report anyone exploiting just to kill idiots. Sieging the keep is different but I rarely see anyone do that on EU PC (Or I just don't care enough about PvWall to notice).

The point isn't the action's I don't think to be honest. It's the mindset behind them that causes the real issues.

You ambushing a sniper on the wall and then hopping off is not the same thing as an emperor wall hopping into an interior keep and farming low skilled/leveled players.

They are both technically against the same rule though, so you will be caught up in some trouble if someone reports you for doing that.

I get that they are annoying you, but just put them on ignore and throw a meatbag on them and they die real fast.

To me it is simple, if they tell me it is against the rules I won't do it.

Cazzy · July 2016

I would hope/expect it works on a warning system. 3 strikes and you're out. That's why it's important to report (with evidence if possible).

yodased · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

I would hope/expect it works on a warning system. 3 strikes and you're out. That's why it's important to report (with evidence if possible).

WIthout question the first step should be to educate, the second step should be to warn and the third step should be complete and utter destruction of everything they hold dear regarding this game in front of them. Slowly, one piece of ill-gotten gear at a time

Cazzy · July 2016

yodased wrote: »

Cazzy wrote: »

I would hope/expect it works on a warning system. 3 strikes and you're out. That's why it's important to report (with evidence if possible).

WIthout question the first step should be to educate, the second step should be to warn and the third step should be complete and utter destruction of everything they hold dear regarding this game in front of them. Slowly, one piece of ill-gotten gear at a time

Haha, I'm on board with that

Turelus · July 2016

I might get flammed for this but I don't think anyone who used this exploit before yesterdays confirmation from Jessica should face action.

ZOS have time and time again done nothing about issues like this and so much so it's set a precedent and standard to use things like this until it's fixed whether the community agrees it's fair or not. Then having for the first time stood up and declared something an exploit and warned of punishment they only did so in a single forums post which is already buried in replies and new threads.

Anyone who's played this game for a long time and is used to buggy skills isn't going to expect to have action taken against them from this.

Cazzy · July 2016

**Latest xbox patch notes: Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to get on top of Keep walls in Cyrodiil.**

KenaPKK · July 2016

DrMoonMoon wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

DrMoonMoon wrote: »

That moment when you realize what y'all are reporting people for isn't actaully against the rules and just a matter of opinion of what you BELIEVE is the right way for ZOS to conduct PvP. This thread is just basically people raging because someone is better than them and thus it isn't fair.

Wrong. This thread is about someone exploiting an officially-labeled exploit, and in the worst way possible. I've seen wall jumpers take on what few players were there for them to jump at, defeat them, and move in. If that can happen, imagine how unstoppable an EMPEROR doing it would be... Worse still is someone from the INSIDE is HELPING him wall jump right into the inner keep no doubt, thus rendering siege unnecessary. That actually makes them the worst possible player. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if that emperor got his title the usual cheap way; others helping him get it handed to him.

You're just assuming he had someone on the "inside" help when all it takes is someone standing too close to the ledge. That's just laughable.

^

Parafrost · July 2016

Seems like theres going to be a lot of bans if ppl are caught gap closing into keeps.. like 80% of the ps4 population. Its not an exploit if it is apart of the game. Jsin though, but let the bans roll in for using a game mechanic that was messed up on the pts that SHOULD have been fixed. Like all of those sorc skills that were bugged were fixed immediately.

sluice · July 2016

I just came back into cyrodiil yesterday after spending the last weeks in the Sewers / IC..
Wow, the surprise when defending my first keep.

Honestly, defensively, it felt great having to be kept ou our toes at all time.

You know you can simply not stand near the wall to let them gap close on you.
or
You can stand near the wall and CC/kill them as soon as they jump.

Bans
You guys all calling for bans left and right are just as bad... It just shows how much salt there is in this community.

I mean, you do realize that probably 90% of the people leaping inside keeps (using ANY gap closer), don't even know it's considered an exploit and most probably think it's a feature?

Leaping into keeps is not a new thing, it's just way more easy now and now all class can do it.

If anything I'm shocked to see such an easy to accomplish issue passing through PTS unnoticed/ignored, than called an exploit by ZOS that can result in bans.

To me this is just abusing a game feature that should not really be there in the first place, just like the Proxy Det + Soul Tether + Vicious Death combo was a thing last patch, just like running a zerg will always be a feature and camping/farming a homebase or a tower is a feature.

I think, I will head back to Imperial City now

Turelus · July 2016

Parafrost wrote: »

Seems like theres going to be a lot of bans if ppl are caught gap closing into keeps.. like 80% of the ps4 population. Its not an exploit if it is apart of the game. Jsin though, but let the bans roll in for using a game mechanic that was messed up on the pts that SHOULD have been fixed. Like all of those sorc skills that were bugged were fixed immediately.

This is why I am saying they need to have a more open disclosure about it now they have said it's an exploit. As of right now people are at risk of account sanctions for something they think is the normal way for playing ESO and other than Jessica's post yesterday there is nothing tell people to not do this.

Still I am happy they finally came out and said something was an exploit, will be interesting to see how they back that up.

sluice · July 2016

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom,

Grappling Hook
The sieging aspect of this game gets repetitive and boring.
Give us a legit grappling hook (that cost AP?) and with a few specific locations where it can be used (2-4 for keeps? 1-2 for outpost? 1 for ressources tower?).

These locations could be heavily guarded by NPC and humans players could/should guard them too.

We need some way to infiltrate a keep, just not as easy and exploitable as it is now.

It would bring so much more to the sieging experience in Cyrodiil.

Cazzy · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

**Latest xbox patch notes: Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to get on top of Keep walls in Cyrodiil.**

sluice · July 2016

Cazzy wrote: »

**Latest xbox patch notes: Teleport Strike: Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could be used to get on top of Keep walls in Cyrodiil.**

Well that should end all the cries, the bans and the salts.

Parafrost · July 2016

PeggymoeXD wrote: »

Let's be real people. They've officially come out and announced that it is indeed an exploit recently. If players accused and 100% found guilty of using 3rd party software to manipulate the way the game works to their own advantage can be allowed to return to the game, I highly doubt anyone is getting banned before this recent announcement.

A few players on ps4 got banned permanently because of it yesterday. This is cheating in their eyes, but those guys spamming ultis get banned for 3 days.

yodased · July 2016

sluice wrote: »

I just came back into cyrodiil yesterday after spending the last weeks in the Sewers / IC..
Wow, the surprise when defending my first keep.

Honestly, defensively, it felt great having to be kept ou our toes at all time.

You know you can simply not stand near the wall to let them gap close on you.
or
You can stand near the wall and CC/kill them as soon as they jump.

Bans
You guys all calling for bans left and right are just as bad... It just shows how much salt there is in this community.

I mean, you do realize that probably 90% of the people leaping inside keeps (using ANY gap closer), don't even know it's considered an exploit and most probably think it's a feature?

Leaping into keeps is not a new thing, it's just way more easy now and now all class can do it.

If anything I'm shocked to see such an easy to accomplish issue passing through PTS unnoticed/ignored, than called an exploit by ZOS that can result in bans.

To me this is just abusing a game feature that should not really be there in the first place, just like the Proxy Det + Soul Tether + Vicious Death combo was a thing last patch, just like running a zerg will always be a feature and camping/farming a homebase or a tower is a feature.

I think, I will head back to Imperial City now

90% of this number is made up. the other 10% is too.

Munavar · July 2016

If they cannot fix the individual gap closers (how many times have the tried with Focus Charge?); why not …

1) Have all gap closers copy the original teleport strike (I believe it did not have a height component to it; as I do not recall Nightblades exploiting onto walls previously) with just a different visuals.

2) It is summer; get a dozen interns to sit in the keeps and have the intentional offenders get a ‘time out’ (an hour ban) from to Cyrodiil.

3) Add a range debuff to attackers while in range an enemy controlled Keep so that the skills cannot reach the targets up on the walls. “Having the high ground” would mean something.

4) Raise the wall height by 5 meters (or whatever it needs to be to be out of range) and increase the additional range component to the Assault passive that allows increased ranged while at Keeps. There is precedence for environmental changes as they removed the pillar at Aleswell that allowed players to horse jump into.