hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Yes I get your point OP: Sorcerer is behind all other classes in terms of DPS. Thanks for showing this to us with these nice pictures

lol, stop trolling

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Yes I get your point OP: Sorcerer is behind all other classes in terms of DPS. Thanks for showing this to us with these nice pictures

lol, stop trolling

Hey I'm not. I was serious.
I just wrote it in a sarcastic way.

I know. Basically I think no one is debating that it is harder to get really high numbers on a sorc, the point is its neither impossible nor as difficult of a rotation, but just takes time to master.

Considering it is the least forgiving rotation of all the DPS builds it should at least outperform those that are easier when performed correctly. Unfortunately that doesn't happen, beyond that, it is still a boring play style because toggleness.

I understand what you are saying, but where is the proof that it is any less forgiving than another class? If anything it is easier to not mess up and is thus easier to execute. A sorc has a 23 second DoT, a 10 second DoT and ele Blockade - 8 seconds. Let's take a templar. He has 8 second DoT- Blockade, a 6.5 second DoT- reflective light (no one uses vamp bane anymore), Purifying Light 6 seconds. The only other long DoT available to templars is Ritual of Retribution, which lasts 12 seconds and is only good in AoE. A sorc'speak DoT's are all ling giving you the ability to force pulse weave to your heart's content

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.

Considered by whom? I personally find magicka nightblade DPS to be far less forgiving than sorcerer DPS. You get punished a lot harder by missing weaves and not being able to shoot the bow, and you have more dots to maintain. Sorcerer just has 2 dots and the occasional frag proc with pulse weave.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.

One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the other classes may simpy fit your playstyle better and thus making you flow into it more easily? The same goes for the other people you mentioned.

It is because sorcerers have far less abilities to use than the other classes that any mistakes in a sorcerer's rotation results in a far greater loss of DPS. As you said your self, we have only two ground targeted DoTs to maintain, if either of those does not tick on the the boss at any given time, the DPS will plummet. Meanwhile, other classes have several DoTs to maintain, so you happen to miss one, it won't affect your overall DPS as much as a sorcerer missing one of their two.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.

Considered by whom? I personally find magicka nightblade DPS to be far less forgiving than sorcerer DPS. You get punished a lot harder by missing weaves and not being able to shoot the bow, and you have more dots to maintain. Sorcerer just has 2 dots and the occasional frag proc with pulse weave.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.

One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the other classes may simpy fit your playstyle better and thus making you flow into it more easily? The same goes for the other people you mentioned.

I have, but dismissed that possibility because I don't know a single person who is switching from another class to a sorc. Everyone I know is switching from a sorc to another class. Or has just stopped playing their sorc because of low dps combined with a lack of group utility.

I don't mind putting in the effort to learn a proper rotation for a sorc, but that doesn't mean I don't like that even with a good rotation I'm going to be doing significantly less damage than most other classes. For the same amount of work (or more). I'm also not going to like the fact that my group will suffer my presence, because my class has nearly zero group utility.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.

Considered by whom? I personally find magicka nightblade DPS to be far less forgiving than sorcerer DPS. You get punished a lot harder by missing weaves and not being able to shoot the bow, and you have more dots to maintain. Sorcerer just has 2 dots and the occasional frag proc with pulse weave.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.

One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the other classes may simpy fit your playstyle better and thus making you flow into it more easily? The same goes for the other people you mentioned.

It is because sorcerers have far less abilities to use than the other classes that any mistakes in a sorcerer's rotation results in a far greater loss of DPS. As you said your self, we have only two ground targeted DoTs to maintain, if either of those does not tick on the the boss at any given time, the DPS will plummet. Meanwhile, other classes have several DoTs to maintain, so you happen to miss one, it won't affect your overall DPS as much as a sorcerer missing one of their two.

We have to keep up two DoTs to stay at a top dps level. Other classes need to keep up more DoTs to keep at the same DPS level. If anything, it requires less effort to stay at top dps with a sorc than with anything else. You say it won't affect overall DPS if you miss DoTs on any other class, but that is simply false.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.

Considered by whom? I personally find magicka nightblade DPS to be far less forgiving than sorcerer DPS. You get punished a lot harder by missing weaves and not being able to shoot the bow, and you have more dots to maintain. Sorcerer just has 2 dots and the occasional frag proc with pulse weave.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.

One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the other classes may simpy fit your playstyle better and thus making you flow into it more easily? The same goes for the other people you mentioned.

I have, but dismissed that possibility because I don't know a single person who is switching from another class to a sorc. Everyone I know is switching from a sorc to another class. Or has just stopped playing their sorc because of low dps combined with a lack of group utility.

I don't mind putting in the effort to learn a proper rotation for a sorc, but that doesn't mean I don't like that even with a good rotation I'm going to be doing significantly less damage than most other classes. For the same amount of work (or more). I'm also not going to like the fact that my group will suffer my presence, because my class has nearly zero group utility.

I'm personally a main sorc player for over 2 years now, and my DPS is a lot worse when I play other classes. Granted, I haven't put as much effort into mastering them as my sorc, but still.

I know, I've seen your builds. I'm not saying that some people aren't good sorc players. I'm not saying that some people aren't better at it than other classes. It just seems to me that it's much more of a struggle to do "good" dps on a sorc compared to other classes. And by "good", I'm not talking 35K+ dps, more like 25K+. And all that is without going into the other problems the class has and that are unique to sorcs.

And let's not forget all the other problems with the class that got this discussion started in the first place. While DPS is a huge part of the class (since it's mostly a damage class), things like "fun to play", group utility, too-many-useless-abilities, etc. all come into play as well. While some sorc abilities are somewhat useful at low levels (pets), they just don't scale up to end-game play.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.

Considered by whom? I personally find magicka nightblade DPS to be far less forgiving than sorcerer DPS. You get punished a lot harder by missing weaves and not being able to shoot the bow, and you have more dots to maintain. Sorcerer just has 2 dots and the occasional frag proc with pulse weave.

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

jknight201 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

@jknight201

You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.

Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?

Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.

One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.

Have you stopped to consider the possibility that the other classes may simpy fit your playstyle better and thus making you flow into it more easily? The same goes for the other people you mentioned.

I have, but dismissed that possibility because I don't know a single person who is switching from another class to a sorc. Everyone I know is switching from a sorc to another class. Or has just stopped playing their sorc because of low dps combined with a lack of group utility.

I don't mind putting in the effort to learn a proper rotation for a sorc, but that doesn't mean I don't like that even with a good rotation I'm going to be doing significantly less damage than most other classes. For the same amount of work (or more). I'm also not going to like the fact that my group will suffer my presence, because my class has nearly zero group utility.

jknight201 wrote: »

I have, but dismissed that possibility because I don't know a single person who is switching from another class to a sorc. Everyone I know is switching from a sorc to another class. Or has just stopped playing their sorc because of low dps combined with a lack of group utility.

I don't mind putting in the effort to learn a proper rotation for a sorc, but that doesn't mean I don't like that even with a good rotation I'm going to be doing significantly less damage than most other classes. For the same amount of work (or more). I'm also not going to like the fact that my group will suffer my presence, because my class has nearly zero group utility.

ARIES SERPICO wrote: »

It has been said in this thread already but to recap, DPS depends on your knowledge/experience of the class you play. My Sorc is my main for two years now and it's fine. There will always be game balancing and changes so rely on the knowlegde of how to play/tweak you class.

Ipslor wrote: »

I just don't get it.
I play sorc since beta. This is my main character. I can say that I know all sorcerer's abilities perfectly, I know what they do and how they work. Currently I have 430+ cp and though allocation may be not optimal it isnt completely dumb.
Now I run 2x Infernal Maw (replacing Engine Guardian), 5x Juli, 3x Willpower. All purple except Juli chest and staff, which are gold.
Mundus is Apprentice. Race is Breton. I have ~30k Magika.

I never succeeded to pull >12k on single target. I tried builds... well, I think all of them. Lots of my own setups, pet, dual pet, petless, Destro-staff based, class-abilities based, Mages Guild abilities, etc etc etc.

Im medium-weaving most of the time, for building Ult mostly.

What am I doing wrong?

Ipslor wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

1. Infernal Maw = trash, Nerieneth is better
2. Apprentice mundus = trash, thief is BiS for your gear
3. As a breton yous hould have 40k magicka at the very least, take your points out of health or stam and put them all into magicka.
4. You should be mediumw evaing everry ability you cast on the destro bar. On the dual wield bar you should just cast skills.
5. Rotation:
Boundless Storm>Liquid Lightning>Bar Swap>Elemental blockade>Weave>Force Pulse+ Weave x 7. If you are using frags then cast it on proc and medium weave with it.

1. I don't have Neri. Of all monster sets I have Eng. Guardian and Infernal.
2. Will try to change it.
3. All points in magika, all race abilities unlocked, all enchantments are magika, have 32k with Bound Aegis.
4. Yep doing it, weaving force pulse/meduim. Maybe I weave wrong? Using fire staff, I press LMB till ~half of full staff heavy attack, then release mouse and immediately press F. Pulse, is that it?

Ipslor wrote: »

I just don't get it.
I play sorc since beta. This is my main character. I can say that I know all sorcerer's abilities perfectly, I know what they do and how they work. Currently I have 430+ cp and though allocation may be not optimal it isnt completely dumb.
Now I run 2x Infernal Maw (replacing Engine Guardian), 5x Juli, 3x Willpower. All purple except Juli chest and staff, which are gold.
Mundus is Apprentice. Race is Breton. I have ~30k Magika.

I never succeeded to pull >12k on single target. I tried builds... well, I think all of them. Lots of my own setups, pet, dual pet, petless, Destro-staff based, class-abilities based, Mages Guild abilities, etc etc etc.

Im medium-weaving most of the time, for building Ult mostly.

What am I doing wrong?

Dracane wrote: »

I guess, you are using regen drinks instead of food.

Grao wrote: »

Do you have Inner Light in your main bar? And the passive from the mages guild that increases your Magika per guild ability on your bar? Do you have the undaunted passives? If so, are you using a piece of heavy gear and one of medium gear? Your magika is way too low.