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Magicka Sorc DPS still viable!
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.
You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.
By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.
You do hate sorcs, all I've ever seen from you is complaining. Why don't you put that much effort into trying to adapt your sorc?
I wasn't fond of some changes myself, but to be honest my sorc is stronger than he's ever been after trying several different things. I'm talking in terms of PvP, but in terms of PvE I also feel they are fine.
If I hated sorcerers as you think I do I wouldn't care enough to keep posting lists and lists of suggestions in the PTS thread, I wouldn't bother logging into the PTS every time a new expansion is being released to run tests, etc. I do not like the current conditions the class is in, no, and if you really think sorcerers are stronger now than they have ever been you were either playing your sorcerer wrong before or you haven't been around to know what sorcerers were like before the pile of nerfs.
Or maybe you're still trying to play an out of date build to no avail? Because you don't like the current conditions it doesn't mean there isn't a viable combination that pays off.
And maybe not stronger in PvE, I don't really PvE so wouldn't have a valid opinion there, but in PvP, yes my sorc is stronger and I'm playing better than before.
I wasn't playing my sorcerer wrong before, but maybe you're playing your sorcere wrong now?
Is your capacity to read somewhat diminished? If I am running tests on the PTS clearly I am trying different builds. >.>
I am mainly a PvEr though, so my opinions and evaluation of the class are mainly regarding PvE. You can say your evaluation regarding PvP differs from mine and that is fine, though I will point out sorcerers are, from a numbers point of view, likely the least popular class for PvP at the moment. From all I've read and the few times I did bothered taking my sorcerer to Cyrodiil, our best use is with Negate.
well you said you were running tests, you didn't actually elaborate on that, and I'm guessing none of them were successful as you still have a negative view about the sorc.
And yes, you're probably right they are the least popular, but that's because people have just seen the huge negativity around the class and believe it without trying a few things first. that also makes other people think wtf just happened when they get destroyed by the so underpowered sorc.
Out of curiosity what do you think a sorc is lacking to give you such an opinion? (I'm talking more in terms of PvP cause that's what I play, occasionally run 4 man dungeons)
As I said before PvP is definitely not my thing, alas, I'd say sorcerers are lacking in survivability tools since both Ward and Surge were heavily nerfed with the release of DB.
What manners of class heals or defenses we have currently? The heal from Clannfear, the heal from Matriarch, Dark Exchange, Surge, Ward and Blood Magic. Clannfear and Matriarch are pets and thus problematic, their health is insufficient, they die nearly instantly to any strong AoE effects and are easily two shot by any ability. Dark Exchange has a cast time of about 1.5 seconds and is simply a bad skill to use both in PvP and PvE. Surge used to be good, it had burst spikes of heal whenever you managed to critical hit an opponent, now its heal value is similar to a HoT, but while HoT is guaranteed to heal you, Surge relies on critical hit, making the ability twice bad in PvP, battle spirit reduces its effectiveness and the anti crit gear reduces its efficiency. Ward is still a good skill, but a nerf of 70% to its original duration hit the skill quite hard.
There are many ways to fix this problems, you could simply make pets stronger, give them more health, allowing them to be affected by our CPs and passives would also solve their damage problems. Dark Exchange I believe should be completely redesigned. Surge... Is complicated. I think for starters it shouldn't suffer as strong an effect from the battle spirit debuff as it is already restrained by how much harder it is to crit in PvP. If some of the previous changes done I think Ward could stay as it is or maybe have its duration increased by about 2 seconds.
On top of that, still on PvP, I would like to see Ball of Lightning's range increased and the ability actually working properly. I'd also like to see some of the nerfs to this skill set reverted. Our class doesn't have a natural gap closer, Streak is it for us, that its reach is inferior to every other gap closer is a little silly, so since gap closers were buffed, Streak should be as well.
As for what you said... I am not sure how you define success. My main critique to sorcerers right now is that they are a class without identity that had the fun bleed out by a thousand different cuts, or nerfs. While other classes are clearly superior in certain roles, I can't find one role in which sorcerers outperform the other classes and for me that is a balance error. You have DKs as the best tanks in the game and the best DPS, you have Nightblades as the best class for PvP and you have Templars as the best class for healing.
Sorcerers don't have a point to pride them selves on anymore. Previous to DB we were the best class for completing solo content, but that is not true anymore. We are left a class with too many toggles, abilities that are not properly affected by the current leveling system, abilities that have been bugged since the release of the game and a whole bunch of RNG.1 -
iam117✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »Assume that a Maelstrom staff does 20% more damage than a normal staff. That's a totally unrealistic assumption, but let's pretend. Ok, for your sorc, staff damage was 15% of your overall damage. A 20% boost to 15% of your damage would take a 15K DPS sorc to 15.45K DPS. Such a small increase as to be completely irrelevant. Now consider that a Maelstrom staff probably does 3-5% more damage that a weapon damage-enchanted staff, when you consider the boost to all other damage, and you can see my point.
but 2 issues with that is its not a 15k parse, its a 30k parse, so really its about a 1k increase, and thats if it was a flat value only, but it can crit, so yes it would not make a huge difference in a lower parse, but the higher parse you get the bigger a difference it makes, and then you add in the spell dmg on top of that. it does make quite a difference. sure its not game breaking, but still a difference. with my rotation on my sorc, my sharpened maelstrom lightning gets me about 3-3.5k more dps than a non set sharpened. and that is with light weaving. medium weavers will notice an even bigger difference.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
jknight201✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
So I am a very analytical person so i am going to give you some statistics
1. I have a sorc, but I don't play it too often.
2. Nearly all of the people I have played with or are in my guild have sorcs
3. Each and every one of them has hit 25k+ DPS
4. Very few of them have a vMA staff
5. Some of them have only leveled a sorc recently
So if multiple people are telling you that it is easy, than maybe you can entertain the notion that the problem lies with you. Now that being said, I am not trying to make you feel bad. I propose that we meet up and I can take a look at what you are doing. I am confident I can help you break 20k easy and will get you to 25k consistent DPS.
I'm in 3 PVE guilds. None of them are elite guilds, but they do have a few very good people.
1. I have a sorc as my main and play it *all* the time.
2. Many people in my guilds have sorcs, but never play them because of the terrible DPS compared to other classes.
3. With the exception of the elite players (<0.1% of the people) I don't know any sorcs who can get >20K consistently against bosses.
4. Very few of them have a vMSA staff (compare to nearly all stab builds having the bow).
5. Most of them have been playing for >1 year
6. The better sorc players in my guilds are either 15-17K DPS or 35K+. I can think of probably 3 people out of the 500+ in my 3 guilds who can achieve 35K+ with their sorcs and yes, I've talked to them and yes, even after taking their advice (which I appreciated btw) - that only took me from 13K to 17K.
The only people who are telling me "sorcs are easy" are the ones who either don't play a sorc or who are salty because they get killed by sorcs in PVP play. I don't know how sorcs do in PVP play, as I only know I never play PVP because I constantly get insta-killed by everyone so gave up on that aspect of the game.
I would love for someone to help me get 25K+ consistently, sure. Just don't think it's going to be an easy fix because, for example, I haven't allocated my CP or haven't unlocked Force Pulse.1 -
jknight201✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:
All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.
I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.
What about the other classes?
I'm sure Nightblades and DKs can get more with the same gear, but I can't prove it because I don't have comparable alts in those classes myself.
I can tell you with 2 pc Kena the results aren't any better, and can easily be worse because of resource management problems because of Kena.
I can tell you I got on the PTS, created a CP300 mag Templar and equipped the gear that was in the coffers you get with the template and got 15K DPS in about 5 minutes spamming a single ability. I gave up in disgust after about 30 minutes when I could get 17K+ with just a simple buff and it took me months to get to that point with my sorc. I have zero doubt that had I actually geared out the character, paid attention to the CP allocation and learned a proper rotation that I could have gotten 25K+ easily and probably 30K with some practice.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes I get your point OP: Sorcerer is behind all other classes in terms of DPS. Thanks for showing this to us with these nice pictures
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos2 -
iam117✭✭✭@jknight201 im down too, @hedna123b14_ESO or myself, or even both of us, could likely help you get your numbers up, or at the very least, just give some good advice on rotations etc.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0
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hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
20k really isn't hard to achieve with a sorcerer if you have enough CPs, proper gear and enchants and a good grasp of the rotation, which really isn't a complex rotation, just very unforgiving. About his build, its potential damage can only truly be measured when there are more than one enemy, in single target the best I think you are likely to achieve is around 25k -30k? It is a build designed to take advantage of AoEing even with your heavy attacks after all.
Not defending Sorcerers as they are here, but we can do relevant damage, even if not as easily or as high damage as other classes. My problem with the class is the number of frustrating skills and the complete bore the few skills we actually use were reduced to.
Agree. I've posted my frustration with the class in other threads. It starts with: too many useless skills, buggy skills (overload), too many required toggle skills, nerfed basic abilities and no spammable class skills. While a Templar can literally just spam a single ability and get excellent DPS, a sorc has to use a complicated rotation and bar swapping just to barely be competitive.
I keep hearing 20K+ is "easy" for sorcs, but it just isn't true. CP501 here, 5 pc gold Julianos divines, 2 pc Kena, 3 pc Willpower, all spell dmg enchants, gold sharpened fire staff, 2x gold Torug's sharpened swords. If that isn't geared out, then please let me know what is. According to Combat Metrics, I can keep Surge, Liquid Lightning and Elemental Blockade up >95% of the time with a light attack/Force Pulse rotation in between. That gets me to 15K to 20K DPS in a typical boss fight (lower DPS if the boss moves around, like 2nd boss on nMOL, higher if the boss doesn't move like 1st boss in nMOL). And don't even get me started about "just spam OL for leet dps" - I get about 23K spamming OL for an entire fight.
I have tried various combinations of armor sets, more regen/less damage vs less regen/more damage... and I just can't do better than about 20K. And it's not just me. The people who can get >25K on a sorc are in the 0.1% of players. The "average" ESO player is lucky to break 12-15K with a sorc. If you don't believe me, just queue up for a few dungeons with random people.
I'm not calling out Hedna's build as being problematic or bad. I actually thought it was a creative new take that differed from the normal sorc cookie-cutter builds. But... it also didn't do any more damage than the cookie-cutter builds.
You seem to be missing the VMA staff there. It is actually quite important because of the interaction with Elemental Blockade. And yes, I am quite aware RNG drops suck.
Yes, not getting the VMA staff. A sharpened fire staff with the weapon power enchantment is close enough to the VMA staff to make it not worth the pain of trying to get it.
Even if I had a Maelstrom staff, it's not going to put me from 17K to >25K. The staff isn't nearly as OP as the bow. If it were just a matter of getting that staff to get >25K with a sorc, I would have already done it. We can debate things like CP point assignments, rotations, etc. and *maybe* squeeze out another few percent in dps. But that still won't carry it to >25K.
So I am a very analytical person so i am going to give you some statistics
1. I have a sorc, but I don't play it too often.
2. Nearly all of the people I have played with or are in my guild have sorcs
3. Each and every one of them has hit 25k+ DPS
4. Very few of them have a vMA staff
5. Some of them have only leveled a sorc recently
So if multiple people are telling you that it is easy, than maybe you can entertain the notion that the problem lies with you. Now that being said, I am not trying to make you feel bad. I propose that we meet up and I can take a look at what you are doing. I am confident I can help you break 20k easy and will get you to 25k consistent DPS.
I'm in 3 PVE guilds. None of them are elite guilds, but they do have a few very good people.
1. I have a sorc as my main and play it *all* the time.
2. Many people in my guilds have sorcs, but never play them because of the terrible DPS compared to other classes.
3. With the exception of the elite players (<0.1% of the people) I don't know any sorcs who can get >20K consistently against bosses.
4. Very few of them have a vMSA staff (compare to nearly all stab builds having the bow).
5. Most of them have been playing for >1 year
6. The better sorc players in my guilds are either 15-17K DPS or 35K+. I can think of probably 3 people out of the 500+ in my 3 guilds who can achieve 35K+ with their sorcs and yes, I've talked to them and yes, even after taking their advice (which I appreciated btw) - that only took me from 13K to 17K.
The only people who are telling me "sorcs are easy" are the ones who either don't play a sorc or who are salty because they get killed by sorcs in PVP play. I don't know how sorcs do in PVP play, as I only know I never play PVP because I constantly get insta-killed by everyone so gave up on that aspect of the game.
I would love for someone to help me get 25K+ consistently, sure. Just don't think it's going to be an easy fix because, for example, I haven't allocated my CP or haven't unlocked Force Pulse.
You can be in 5 PvE guilds, maybe they are just filled with players that dont know how to play a certain class well. There is no crime in that, but you have to be willing to learn. If you would like I can help you get to 25k, or really anyone else who wants to get good dps on a sorc. Your playtime is inconsequential, i know players that have played since Beta and are terrible, partly because they do not take the time to learn how to properly DPS. If they would, they would get those numbers. You say elite players get good numbers, but the issue with that label is you are assuming that they have special characteristics in terms of ability. this is simply not true. They just took the time to do research and learn the proper way to do this, they didnt just walk into the game and became Gods...0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes I get your point OP: Sorcerer is behind all other classes in terms of DPS. Thanks for showing this to us with these nice pictures
lol, stop trolling0 -
jknight201✭✭✭TotallyNotVos wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:
All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.
I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.
Well it's the norm to do blood spawn parses without warhorn and only self buffs so I don't see why you added that first bit. And what's the point of showing a parse without maximum effort(bis gear and potions)? That parse is not at all indicative of what a sorcerer can do solo blood spawn. You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
No, he's pointing out the fact that sorcs >are< actually bad. 20K dps is a good number for 99% of the sorcs out there. If you don't believe me ... queue up for some random dungeons and you'll quickly see that the vast majority of average sorc players are doing in the 8-12K dps range. And no, I'm not making that up. A Templar or NB can easily double that even when played by a casual, inexperienced player.
Sorcs do not need "extremely minor tweaks" - they need a complete class overhaul. Most abilities are useless. How many pet builds have you seen in vMOL? Zos has systematically made the few remaining, viable abilities no fun to play. Zos has forced sorcs to do the majority of their damage with not-in-class skills (destro staff). Zos requires sorcs to have at least two ability slots filled with useless toggle abilities. Zos broke sorcs' self-heal, making it worthless without support of a healer. Zos nerfed sorcs' escape mechanism with Streak and then made them unable to defend themselves by breaking Ward.
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".1 -
iam117✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
vos mains a sorc. so im sure he is familiar with how they work. he does not need to try them or for you to tell him the difficulty level of the class, also you should not be spamming overload. resource management is not an issue with ele and orbs, even sustaining kena is not horribly difficult in 5+ min fights on a sorc. also if you need an easy rotation to be fun to play, then reroll for magicka templar so you can 1 button spam from 35%, thats fine, to each their own though, not everyone will find enjoyment out of playing magicka sorc as it it, yes the class needs work, but it is minor tweaks that need made, and skills need to be addressed to create usefull options for different rolls, pets need to be changed to dots, but a damage buff it does NOT need, it is on par with every other magicka class in terms of damage, yeah it is harder to get there, but obviously its doable, you can que into any dungeon and have any person on any class do 12-20k dps, thats pretty normal for pugs, regardless of class. but thats fine, most people are happy with that, if your unhappy, take some advice, both myself and nos are both happy to try to help you out, if thats not the case, reroll to a different class and find your fun, no one is forcing you to play a sorc.<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol1 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:
All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.
I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.
Well it's the norm to do blood spawn parses without warhorn and only self buffs so I don't see why you added that first bit. And what's the point of showing a parse without maximum effort(bis gear and potions)? That parse is not at all indicative of what a sorcerer can do solo blood spawn. You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
No, he's pointing out the fact that sorcs >are< actually bad. 20K dps is a good number for 99% of the sorcs out there. If you don't believe me ... queue up for some random dungeons and you'll quickly see that the vast majority of average sorc players are doing in the 8-12K dps range. And no, I'm not making that up. A Templar or NB can easily double that even when played by a casual, inexperienced player.
Sorcs do not need "extremely minor tweaks" - they need a complete class overhaul. Most abilities are useless. How many pet builds have you seen in vMOL? Zos has systematically made the few remaining, viable abilities no fun to play. Zos has forced sorcs to do the majority of their damage with not-in-class skills (destro staff). Zos requires sorcs to have at least two ability slots filled with useless toggle abilities. Zos broke sorcs' self-heal, making it worthless without support of a healer. Zos nerfed sorcs' escape mechanism with Streak and then made them unable to defend themselves by breaking Ward.
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
I've played sorcerer since day one of PC launch and have raided with the top na raid teams and let me tell you I and the other sorcs I know are perfectly in line with the other magicka classes. What the average player can do is inconsequential when it comes to class balance, that's the entire reason stam dk is so broken. Classes need to be balanced on what they CAN do, not what they average player does. And sorcs can get over 40K dps on all bosses of vmolMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch1 -
bryanhaas✭✭✭✭
Also, meteor is insta-cast and buffed by DK engulfing... which allows you to do your rotation with meteor still ticking... Soul Assault is a channel and doesn't do near the DPS meteor would and keeps you from doing anything else while it's being cast, it's also interruptible by block casting, any interrupts, CC's, etc.
Also if you take a look at my parse in the OP, you'll see that meteor did a total of 130K damage and was almost 9% of my DPS.. and that was with 1 Meteor.
Okay makes sense, what gets me usually is if they move out of the AOE it does not do quite as much damage. Thinking about it though you can cast the soul magic ult about three times before meteor is ready, obviously it can be interrupted so it is situational and in most cases I actually have meteor slotted due to the instant cast unless there is a boss that does really do interrupts. Like you are saying though it is probably a poor choice for bloodspawn though.PS4 NA AD GM formerly known as GM of "The Children of the Void"
9 trait crafter I do all the things (Yes I mean ALL the things ;0).
Price list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FTV7ACtmEpQQwsEiHVcrBxC0zKaj6LKvc3An7dGG2t0/edit?usp=sharing
Youtube: MaulochBaal https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRav05_8nWGvlTrfBBefaEw/featured0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭@jknight201 i strongly urge you to take @liv3mind and @hedna123b14_ESO up on their offers so you can see what a sorcerer is actually capable of and i will leave you with this https://youtube.com/watch?v=gTcprvIFDcIMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch1 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.Edited by Dymence on July 1, 2016 7:02PM2 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
vos mains a sorc. so im sure he is familiar with how they work. he does not need to try them or for you to tell him the difficulty level of the class, also you should not be spamming overload. resource management is not an issue with ele and orbs, even sustaining kena is not horribly difficult in 5+ min fights on a sorc. also if you need an easy rotation to be fun to play, then reroll for magicka templar so you can 1 button spam from 35%, thats fine, to each their own though, not everyone will find enjoyment out of playing magicka sorc as it it, yes the class needs work, but it is minor tweaks that need made, and skills need to be addressed to create usefull options for different rolls, pets need to be changed to dots, but a damage buff it does NOT need, it is on par with every other magicka class in terms of damage, yeah it is harder to get there, but obviously its doable, you can que into any dungeon and have any person on any class do 12-20k dps, thats pretty normal for pugs, regardless of class. but thats fine, most people are happy with that, if your unhappy, take some advice, both myself and nos are both happy to try to help you out, if thats not the case, reroll to a different class and find your fun, no one is forcing you to play a sorc.
If most people are fleeing the sorcs class left and right with only a few people staying with the class, then yes it does need a complete overhaul fast. It doesn't matter if a few people think they're fine if noone else plays the class, as then you might as well delete it as it's just a waste of space if you don't overhaul it.R.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭Good for pve now try it in pvp ! Rip
I have no issues on a sorc in PvP... they are extremely bursty and have high survive-ability. I find it easier to 1vX on my sorc than I would with my Mag Dk/Templar... I do best on my magblade however.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭
Also, meteor is insta-cast and buffed by DK engulfing... which allows you to do your rotation with meteor still ticking... Soul Assault is a channel and doesn't do near the DPS meteor would and keeps you from doing anything else while it's being cast, it's also interruptible by block casting, any interrupts, CC's, etc.
Also if you take a look at my parse in the OP, you'll see that meteor did a total of 130K damage and was almost 9% of my DPS.. and that was with 1 Meteor.
Okay makes sense, what gets me usually is if they move out of the AOE it does not do quite as much damage. Thinking about it though you can cast the soul magic ult about three times before meteor is ready, obviously it can be interrupted so it is situational and in most cases I actually have meteor slotted due to the instant cast unless there is a boss that does really do interrupts. Like you are saying though it is probably a poor choice for bloodspawn though.
Well the other thing you would need to look at as well is the fact that having meteor slotted nets you 2% max magicka. So just having it on your bar buffs your other damage.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
rokrdt05✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Emma_Overload wrote: »This is what real life Sorc DPS looks like with non-BOP gear, no pricey potions and no buffs or gimmicks like Warhorn:
All I was wearing was 3 pc Willpower, 3 pc Torug's and 5 pc Julianos with Thief Mundus. My magicka was around 42K with roughly 3200 spell damage.
I think getting much more than 20K on a mag Sorc requires expensive potions, fancy gear like 2pc Kena and a bunch of buffs you only get in an organized Trial group.
What about the other classes?
I'm sure Nightblades and DKs can get more with the same gear, but I can't prove it because I don't have comparable alts in those classes myself.
If you read my original post you'll see that the gear I listed as my sorc was wearing, is the gear my NB normally wears. Technically speaking for a sorc it's not BiS gear, but it's not bad gear either.
I did not use potions during my test, only Power Surge... I received no outside buffs such as Spell Power Cure, Aggressive Warhorn, Engulfing etc. and I def did not use 2x Kena... I personally hate Kena.
But bottom line... I did this on a not ideal set up with self buffs and nothing else.Server: PC - North America - Daggerfall/Ebonheart
Guilds: Order of the Bear | From The Dust
Blaze | Sorcerer | DC | Former Empress
Ulterior Motive | Templar | DC
Detka's Tank | Dragon Knight | DC
Tëmpëst | Sorceror | EP | Former Emperor
Fíre | Nightblade | EP
'Fire| Nightblade | DC
Spëctrë | Templar | DC
Ashléy Olsén| Dragon Knight | EP0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.
TruthMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch1 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
vos mains a sorc. so im sure he is familiar with how they work. he does not need to try them or for you to tell him the difficulty level of the class, also you should not be spamming overload. resource management is not an issue with ele and orbs, even sustaining kena is not horribly difficult in 5+ min fights on a sorc. also if you need an easy rotation to be fun to play, then reroll for magicka templar so you can 1 button spam from 35%, thats fine, to each their own though, not everyone will find enjoyment out of playing magicka sorc as it it, yes the class needs work, but it is minor tweaks that need made, and skills need to be addressed to create usefull options for different rolls, pets need to be changed to dots, but a damage buff it does NOT need, it is on par with every other magicka class in terms of damage, yeah it is harder to get there, but obviously its doable, you can que into any dungeon and have any person on any class do 12-20k dps, thats pretty normal for pugs, regardless of class. but thats fine, most people are happy with that, if your unhappy, take some advice, both myself and nos are both happy to try to help you out, if thats not the case, reroll to a different class and find your fun, no one is forcing you to play a sorc.
If most people are fleeing the sorcs class left and right with only a few people staying with the class, then yes it does need a complete overhaul fast. It doesn't matter if a few people think they're fine if noone else plays the class, as then you might as well delete it as it's just a waste of space if you don't overhaul it.
People are abandoning the class because theyre jumping on the doomsayer bandwagon, its happened multiple times throughout this games life, it just so happens to be the sorcs turnMechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch1 -
cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭TotallyNotVos wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
vos mains a sorc. so im sure he is familiar with how they work. he does not need to try them or for you to tell him the difficulty level of the class, also you should not be spamming overload. resource management is not an issue with ele and orbs, even sustaining kena is not horribly difficult in 5+ min fights on a sorc. also if you need an easy rotation to be fun to play, then reroll for magicka templar so you can 1 button spam from 35%, thats fine, to each their own though, not everyone will find enjoyment out of playing magicka sorc as it it, yes the class needs work, but it is minor tweaks that need made, and skills need to be addressed to create usefull options for different rolls, pets need to be changed to dots, but a damage buff it does NOT need, it is on par with every other magicka class in terms of damage, yeah it is harder to get there, but obviously its doable, you can que into any dungeon and have any person on any class do 12-20k dps, thats pretty normal for pugs, regardless of class. but thats fine, most people are happy with that, if your unhappy, take some advice, both myself and nos are both happy to try to help you out, if thats not the case, reroll to a different class and find your fun, no one is forcing you to play a sorc.
If most people are fleeing the sorcs class left and right with only a few people staying with the class, then yes it does need a complete overhaul fast. It doesn't matter if a few people think they're fine if noone else plays the class, as then you might as well delete it as it's just a waste of space if you don't overhaul it.
People are abandoning the class because theyre jumping on the doomsayer bandwagon, its happened multiple times throughout this games life, it just so happens to be the sorcs turn
And all the other classes have gotten big changes/buffs because of that, so that should be the sorcs turn too soon, right?Edited by cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO on July 1, 2016 7:29PMR.I.P. Daranth Spellborn
VR16 Dunmer Sorcerer
March 2014 - May 2016
He was a skilled Crafter and a reliable Sorcerer;
Then came the Dark Brotherhood
Wrobel wrote: Surge is now more effective for tank characters.
Because crit tanks are so good, LOL. xD0 -
Foxic✭✭✭✭✭cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »TotallyNotVos wrote: »You're just perpetuating the stereotype that sorcerers are bad when they only need extremely minor tweaks. Build diversity points aside, the reality is that all of the magicka builds are more balanced with each other than they ever have been. The only real problem with pve right now is how absurd stam dps is because of the combo of the new dawn breaker, trap, and vma daggers
I could go on and on but I won't. Bottom line: you're wrong - sorcs need more than "extremely minor tweaks" to be a competitive DPS class and they need even more than that to be a class that is fun to play. You want frustrating? Try playing a sorc and having to get your rotation just right, hope OL doesn't bug out and get stuck, hope that your execute actually fires off when it's supposed to, etc. etc. Then while doing all that and worrying about resource management... look over at that Templar spamming his jab-jabs and doing more DPS and then at execute time pressing the easy button once (MAYBE twice on a big boss fight) - Radiant Oppression. Then tell me how the sorc class is "fine".
vos mains a sorc. so im sure he is familiar with how they work. he does not need to try them or for you to tell him the difficulty level of the class, also you should not be spamming overload. resource management is not an issue with ele and orbs, even sustaining kena is not horribly difficult in 5+ min fights on a sorc. also if you need an easy rotation to be fun to play, then reroll for magicka templar so you can 1 button spam from 35%, thats fine, to each their own though, not everyone will find enjoyment out of playing magicka sorc as it it, yes the class needs work, but it is minor tweaks that need made, and skills need to be addressed to create usefull options for different rolls, pets need to be changed to dots, but a damage buff it does NOT need, it is on par with every other magicka class in terms of damage, yeah it is harder to get there, but obviously its doable, you can que into any dungeon and have any person on any class do 12-20k dps, thats pretty normal for pugs, regardless of class. but thats fine, most people are happy with that, if your unhappy, take some advice, both myself and nos are both happy to try to help you out, if thats not the case, reroll to a different class and find your fun, no one is forcing you to play a sorc.
If most people are fleeing the sorcs class left and right with only a few people staying with the class, then yes it does need a complete overhaul fast. It doesn't matter if a few people think they're fine if noone else plays the class, as then you might as well delete it as it's just a waste of space if you don't overhaul it.
People are abandoning the class because theyre jumping on the doomsayer bandwagon, its happened multiple times throughout this games life, it just so happens to be the sorcs turn
And all the other classes have gotten big changes/buffs because of that, so that should be the sorcs turn too soon, right?
In complete honesty the only change i think sorcerers need is to add8% magicka into their passives and either do away with bound armor or if they are adamant on using that for max magicka, give it some sort of active effect to. Aside from that sorcerer is perfectly in line with the other magicka specs.Mechanically Challenged, PCNA competitive raid guild
Head of The Council of Raiders
First NA vAS Hardmode(#2 world)
World First Immortal Redeemer & Saintly Savior
All #1 Trial scores Clockwork City patch0 -
jknight201✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
Do you have low CP? That may be the issue. I really think that by practicing a rotation you can break that 20k. I know that every sorc I have ever come across who has practiced their rotation can pull 25k+ on bloodspawn. If you are on NA server I wouldn't mind getting together to see what you're doing and figure out a way to make you hit hard. Let me know if you'd like to do that.
I'm over the CP cap. While my allocation may not be the mathematically perfect assignment, it's not something stupid.
Yes, I play on the NA server and if you'd like to meet in-game, I always appreciate help anywhere I can find it!
Send me an in game mail @Nosferratuzod
Huge shout-out to say how much I appreciate Hedna taking the time to help me out with working on improving my DPS.
For all the problems with the game, dungeons, play balancing, bug, etc. - honestly it's people like this that keep me hanging around - people I don't really know willing to spend their time (and quite a bit of it today!) to help me get better at the game.
Hugely appreciated man, can't thank you enough!
5 -
jknight201✭✭✭@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.0 -
hedna123b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »jknight201 wrote: »As someone who plays a sorc as their main, I'm sorry to say the class really is garbage for DPS.
Some love to point to a few people (like Deltia) who get great DPS with their sorcs, saying "Deltia got XXX DPS! See, sorcs are a competitive DPS class!". The reality is that 0.01% of the people who play sorcs can get >30K DPS with any regularity against single-targets. The vast majority of sorc players are unable to get >20K and most are in the 12-15K range. That's the reality of it. Anyone who tells you differently doesn't actually play the class.
The part I find most frustrating about sorc DPS is that I have to have all my gear, my abilities, my rotation and CP/stats allocated correctly and then struggle to get 15-20K dps, while someone playing a Templar can just spam a single attack and get the same amount of damage with zero skill or effort.
I've been hoping Zos will fix this mess they have created with this class, but it seems the only thing Zos does worse than play balancing the game is writing the code for it.
It is definitely harder, but 20k+ is easy if you practice. I would advise you to get a guide and just practice. After spending some time you'll get it.
LOL - I wouldn't use the word "easy". I've been playing my sorc for 6 months now, if it's not happening after 6 months - it's just not happening. Still not breaking 20K. Several other people in my guild with even more time in on the game aren't breaking 20K on their sorcs either. I'm actually one of the few who has stuck with it and hasn't just given up and moved on to another class. I tried 4 or 5 different builds and the damage just isn't there, and I'm geared out with crafted, Aether, Elegant, Scathing and Overwhelming and still haven't found a combination that can consistently give over 20K. And none of them is anything even remotely close to what I'd call "easy".
And for the record I did look at your "no spammable" build, and get 13-15K with that (but I could probably get that up to 17K+ if I practiced with your rotation more). But 20K+? No.
At first I didn't believe how horribly imbalanced the classes were, so I went to the PTS and created a template mag Templar and was getting 15K with just the equipment in the coffers and about 10 minutes of practice (and 200 fewer CP). It took me months on my sorc to do the same.
Do you have low CP? That may be the issue. I really think that by practicing a rotation you can break that 20k. I know that every sorc I have ever come across who has practiced their rotation can pull 25k+ on bloodspawn. If you are on NA server I wouldn't mind getting together to see what you're doing and figure out a way to make you hit hard. Let me know if you'd like to do that.
I'm over the CP cap. While my allocation may not be the mathematically perfect assignment, it's not something stupid.
Yes, I play on the NA server and if you'd like to meet in-game, I always appreciate help anywhere I can find it!
Send me an in game mail @Nosferratuzod
Huge shout-out to say how much I appreciate Hedna taking the time to help me out with working on improving my DPS.
For all the problems with the game, dungeons, play balancing, bug, etc. - honestly it's people like this that keep me hanging around - people I don't really know willing to spend their time (and quite a bit of it today!) to help me get better at the game.
Hugely appreciated man, can't thank you enough!
Anytime man. Keep working on your rotation, you got it!0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.
Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭jknight201 wrote: »@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.
Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?
Actually Sorcerer DPS is considered the least forgiven of the DPS builds, as if you happen to make a mistake in your rotation and get delayed on placing your ground DoTs you will look suddenly a great amount of DPS. The punishment for messing up your rotation with other classes is less severe.0 -
iam117✭✭✭Well @rokrdt05 I'm getting close with mine, 29.8k unbuffed bloodspawn tonight after a couple tries with 5xJulianos/2xKena/3xwillpower/1xMSAsharpened Lightning destro/2xtorug swords. 63%kena uptime. Wanna try neri once I get the right shoulder.
Fwiw that's about 400 dps (yes 400) lower than i can get on my magicka nb. If I didn't tank so much and enjoy tanking so much I could use some more practice. I will get there.Edited by iam117 on July 2, 2016 7:17AM<Liv3mind><PC/NA - Legion Of The Bloodworks>Snowflake Patrol0 -
jknight201✭✭✭jknight201 wrote: »@jknight201
You say majority of sorcs are around the 20k mark and can't get over it. This doesn't just apply to sorcs. The very large majority of the playerbase can't get over this mark. It's easy to do dps. It's not easy to do good dps. If you can't get over 20k, the problem lies with you, not with the class.
I don't disagree with your assessment of the game, but I do disagree with your assessment of the class. Just because some people can get high DPS numbers doesn't mean that most people can. It's easier for people to get high DPS numbers on classes other than sorcs - and >that< is why the game is broken.
Is it, though? Do you have any examples of this?
Yes. I have my own experience with trying to get high DPS on my own sorc and the comparing that to quickly rolling a Templar on the PTS. I also know several people in guilds who gave up on sorcs and switched to other classes and were doing significantly better damage in about a week - after playing their sorc for months.
One mistake (or bug) in your rotation as a sorc and your DPS drops significantly. Not a whole lot can go wrong when you're using the easy button on another class. I'm not saying all other classes are easy, I'm just saying that it seems easier to get better DPS numbers on another class with a given player. And that points to a problem with the sorc class.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »
Hey
I'm not. I was serious.
I just wrote it in a sarcastic way.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0