Magicka Sorc DPS still viable!

Grao

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

You need 1 per raid group of 12. Woot.

By the way, I don't hate sorcerers, I love the class and mained it for quite sometime. I hate where the class currently stands, shackled to toggles, stuck with staves, with no specialty, no defined identity, lacking basic skills other classes have, with the weakest of executes, pets (included Ultimate Pet) that are not affected by the current leveling system, damage reliant on RNG that cannot be improved upon, self heals that don't scale and aren't a proper HoT as it relies on crits, ridiculously long cast times in skills that clearly should have much shorter cast times or no cast time at all, toggles... Toggles everywhere, passives that don't affect certain skills even though they clearly should... Yeah, I do hate where the class is right now.

Dymence

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

I'm aware, it doesnt hurt to try though, I guess.

I remember posts of him a longer while back where he went on about sorcs not being able to pull competitive DPS without overload and how a group of Nightblades would be able to outparse sorcs by as much as 15k easily. It's amusing how far one can take rants on a class largely based on ignorance.

But hey, I won't be complaining if rants from people like him get sorcs to be buffed.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

I believe all classes played on magicka are currently at an equal level of dps.

Here are my personal competitive sorc parses:

Sorcerers are fine in terms of dps. People just don't want to believe it.

Sorcerer best DPS is lacking when compared to the best DPS of other classes. You can't simply break Magika and Stamina DPS to claim sorcerer DPS is fine, not when our Stamina DPS is still not up to par with what other classes can dish out.

Meanwhile we still provide the least raid utility buffs, had our survivability shot by the release of DB, are forced into toggles other classes and now races get as passives, have a single choice of weapon for magika DPS and the least role flexibility, for while sorcerer magika DPS is still viable, sorcerer tanking took a heavy hit with DB and sorcerer healing is still reliant on a pet with 7 k health that dies after a maximum of three ticks from most bosses AoEs.

Do you have any proof to back up your claim that sorcerer DPS is lacking compared to the best DPS of other classes? From my competitive raiding experience, my sorcerer DPS is on the same line as the magicka DPS from the top tier players that play the other classes. As I said, magicka DPS right now is quite balanced. The only part I'd agree on with you is sorcerer stamina DPS probably still being a little bit behind.

Furthermore, the bonus crit we provide in groups is already quite significant. I'm not sure if we need more group utility buffs at all. Our survivability also didn't take a hit at all in my opinion. Shield has less uptime sure, and surge heals a lot less now. But I've personally found it easier to stay at full health with the new surge in vMSA simply because it's constantly proccing from DoTs.

I'll agree with you that sorcerer tanking needs work because it is absolute garbage right now compared to the tanking options other classes posess, but I find that sorcerers are quite fine healers with the healing pet. I know it's not much, but I've healed several no death vICP runs recently by ONLY using the pet for heals. It is a really strong flash heal, stronger than breath of life I feel.

Just because sorcerers best DPS is Magicka DPS and the other classes best DPS is Stamina DPS, it doesn't mean you can exclude Stamina DPS from your analyzes of the class DPS just because it screws your entire argument. DPS is DPS, it doesn't matter if it is stamina based or magika based, what matters is that sorcerer best potential DPS is considerably lower than other classes potential best DPS.

And while you argue that Sorcerer's are 'fine', Dragonknights are the best tanks and DPS in the game, Templars are undoubtedly the best healers and Nightblades are the best at PvP. What are sorcerers the best at again?

You're only right about this in a very controlled dps environment. The reality however, is that stamina DPS as a whole underperforms when compared to magicka on the majority of the fights in vMoL, due to the nature of these fights being in favor of ranged.

I also don't feel there is a need for sorcerers to be the best at anything. I'm quite fine with being just as good as others instead of being the best at something. My views are biased to DPS though as I don't much care about tanking and healing on a sorcerer.

Ah, alright, so sorcerers are fine not having a specialty, a role in which they can outperform other classes, while every other class has such specialty. Perfect balance, but I guess @Wrobel thinking just like you and has as much care for the class as you.

Well, Nightblades don't have anything that they're the best at either. And no, I'm not counting your supposed 'being the best at PvP'. Entirely subjective and I'm suspecting many will laugh at you for that comment.

They're the best at ganking in PvP. No other class does as well at that as NB's.

Grao

Dymence wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

I'm aware, it doesnt hurt to try though, I guess.

I remember posts of him a longer while back where he went on about sorcs not being able to pull competitive DPS without overload and how a group of Nightblades would be able to outparse sorcs by as much as 15k easily. It's amusing how far one can take rants on a class largely based on ignorance.

But hey, I won't be complaining if rants from people like him get sorcs to be buffed.

I really miss the LOL button.

By the way, I was arguing sorcerers can be outperformed by DK DPS by up to 15k when in each classes ideal situation, which is still true.

Dymence

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

I'm aware, it doesnt hurt to try though, I guess.

I remember posts of him a longer while back where he went on about sorcs not being able to pull competitive DPS without overload and how a group of Nightblades would be able to outparse sorcs by as much as 15k easily. It's amusing how far one can take rants on a class largely based on ignorance.

But hey, I won't be complaining if rants from people like him get sorcs to be buffed.

I really miss the LOL button.

By the way, I was arguing sorcerers can be outperformed by DK DPS by up to 15k when in each classes ideal situation, which is still true.

Ain't never seen it happen. And my raid experience is probably more than yours.

Grao

Dymence wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

I'm aware, it doesnt hurt to try though, I guess.

I remember posts of him a longer while back where he went on about sorcs not being able to pull competitive DPS without overload and how a group of Nightblades would be able to outparse sorcs by as much as 15k easily. It's amusing how far one can take rants on a class largely based on ignorance.

But hey, I won't be complaining if rants from people like him get sorcs to be buffed.

I really miss the LOL button.

By the way, I was arguing sorcerers can be outperformed by DK DPS by up to 15k when in each classes ideal situation, which is still true.

Ain't never seen it happen. And my raid experience is probably more than yours.

Hitting that LOL button again.

Mayrael

Ok, maybe Im not a PvEer, Im 80% of a time in cyrodiil, have all 4 magica classes maxed and tested a lot, so from that point of view I can easly tell that sorc isnt weak, frags hit like a mac truck, endless furry is one of the best finishers, curse is fine when you know how to use it and BE is still amazing escape skill if you know how to use it but... Thats all this class can offer, dark exchange with delayed animation and cast time is far from being useful while your going to die, without healing ward sorc will die anyway so sorc still need resto staff on back bar, pets die to fast in pvp (ive tried this with many combinations in many situations, my main role in battles was to resummon pets, even pre DB with longer shields this wasnt what I epected to be) as their stats, attacks, defences doesnt scale with sorc gear/setup.

BELOW ABOUT PETS, IF YOU DONT WANT TO DONT READ IT ;P
Also having just 2 comands is a bit to few... Sorc should be able to order his pet to like defend him (attack last enemy that hit you but do not engage enemies if they didnt attack player), support (for dps pet atack last target of a player not just some random targets, for tank pet aoe agro mobs), guard spot (pet stays at place and defend him self if needed) and the 2 ones that we have now like fire at will and follow.

But back to topic...
This monotonous skills are making of a sorc rly predictible enemy, sorc have no versatility. Im running now on magplar and as it was with NB and DK, it has so many useful skills that I cant decide which to use, each class can be built in many ways for pvp but not sorc. It isnt weak.class but very monochromatic that forces anyone who plays it to use cookie cutter build as there isnt any other viable option, thats the problem, everyone would like to build uniqe toon in some way but its impossible with sorc.

WatchYourSixx

Oh man this thread is great xD just figure I'd chime in.

Stamina dps, there's really only one class that can smoke all others and that's DK. Stamina dps is now upwards of 50k+ fully buffed single target, compared to the highest parses I've seen... 38k on nb and templar, and 32k on sorc. All stamina, that is. Now mind you this is fully buffed, fights of at least 2 minutes and not my own personal parses.

On magicka.. Every class can sit at about 35-38k fully buffed single target. Magicka is very balanced right now.. But let's talk about diversity!

What build can pull high end dps when you change it from the best dps rotation and skills possible? That's not diversity. Sure, my DK can slot chains and an aoe skill, but I'm not going to be doing near as much dps as I would before. One thing I think is nice about Magicka sorcs at least, is that they can just pure burn bosses. No other class has a higher burst. No other class can sit there and do nothing but dps. They have the ideal situation all the time! No utility means more dps, and thus brings more to the group than a NB that has to slot veil, or a DK using chains, or templar having to slot nova. And that's not the only utility.. But you get the idea. I've seen some ridiculous parses with overload. Sure, you can't use other ultimates and be as strong.. But please name one good DK that doesn't use standard. Name one good NB that doesn't use meteor. Every GOOD build uses the same Damn ultimates. And every GOOD dps uses the same skills as every other good player.

But what do I know, I only play DK.

DerpyShadowz

Grao wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

@Dymence you wont convince him, he is set on hating sorcs even though they are a great addition to a raid if played well.

I'm aware, it doesnt hurt to try though, I guess.

I remember posts of him a longer while back where he went on about sorcs not being able to pull competitive DPS without overload and how a group of Nightblades would be able to outparse sorcs by as much as 15k easily. It's amusing how far one can take rants on a class largely based on ignorance.

But hey, I won't be complaining if rants from people like him get sorcs to be buffed.

I really miss the LOL button.

By the way, I was arguing sorcerers can be outperformed by DK DPS by up to 15k when in each classes ideal situation, which is still true.

Magicka Sorc DPS is in my opinion extremely balanced and on par with all other Magicka DPS classes as Dymence has said. And i have played both Mag NB and DK competitively with Dymence and time and time again the difference is extremely close.

And if you are arguing the point that DPS is DPS regardless of if its Magicka or Stamina then take a gander at this,

For instance, Alcasts Video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIF5eKVgVM8

49k Stamina sorc DPS, and with a flawless attempt it probably can outperform Stamina DK.

So i ask you, Where is the issue with this classes DPS performance in comparison to other classes on the same source
of Damage?

TheDuck

I've been doing just fine with my Mag based DPS Sorcerer.

Some people just love to create drama, even if its baseless.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

TheDuck wrote: »

I've been doing just fine with my Mag based DPS Sorcerer.

Some people just love to create drama, even if its baseless.

Yeah, I'm sure that Zenimax agrees with you with how they laugh their heads off when sorcs and their skills are brought up in eso live. xD

iam117

@Dymence always a pleasure to see you post around still, nice parses btw always nice to see an old time builder kicking ass still, but @hedna123b14_ESO is correct, dont argue with it, he pops into just about every sorc thread to trash them regardless of what it's about, personally I think it's awesome when people say only 1 sorc is allowed in a raid because of buffs, or they are the lowest dps in group, or the worst dps class, we routinely have 2-4 in our group and do splendidly, and these are people with other maxed out toons that bring their sorcs because they enjoy them, and they get just as good if not better numbers on sorcs. Infact it's not uncommon at all when people post numbers for sorcs to be at or very near the top. Magicka is very balanced for all classes atm. The group buffs a sorc provides are very strong and should not be downplayed.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

liv3mind wrote: »

@Dymence always a pleasure to see you post around still, nice parses btw always nice to see an old time builder kicking ass still, but @hedna123b14_ESO is correct, dont argue with it, he pops into just about every sorc thread to trash them regardless of what it's about, personally I think it's awesome when people say only 1 sorc is allowed in a raid because of buffs, or they are the lowest dps in group, or the worst dps class, we routinely have 2-4 in our group and do splendidly, and these are people with other maxed out toons that bring their sorcs because they enjoy them, and they get just as good if not better numbers on sorcs. Infact it's not uncommon at all when people post numbers for sorcs to be at or very near the top. Magicka is very balanced for all classes atm. The group buffs a sorc provides are very strong and should not be downplayed.

I'm sure because they're so strong that there's barely any sorcs around anymore, right?
Ah well, Zenimax just ruined the class completely because they're so damn dumb that they can't even balance classes well.

Cronopoly

I think this thread is confusing / feeding off the "PVP state" of Sorcs discontent that is being talked about at the moment and thinking something is wrong in PVE. So many here are talking about both sides of PVE. I wasn't aware of a DPS "problem" in PVE...

alainjbrennanb16_ESO

To me it is just a matter of learning the sorc, alot of people relied on certain skills and followed the crowd in them, personal i did not, i went my own way. The way i looked at it i wanted my sorc to be able to take down large group mobs quickly and have a high single target for bosses and pvp.

To me is not just down to skills but rotation and animation canceling, on mobs i proc detination, fire prey twice at mobs as i run in hit them with prison to hold them in place (as well as do damage), by them iam in the middle iam using pulse, crystal frags weaved in light attacks to proc my molag and the top i have hit is 100k damage

when i single target i use elemental drain, to start hit them with pray, crystal frags, force pulse and light weaves (again to proc molag), i also run in and pulse every now and then to give debuff and useally my single target is between 18k-30k.

The big thing is to experiment for your self and not to follow crowd, but saying that i can not get anywhere near my monster fire mage dk (who can do all tank, heal and dps) she has topped 175k on group mobs and topped 40k on single target

iam117

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure because they're so strong that there's barely any sorcs around anymore, right?
Ah well, Zenimax just ruined the class completely because they're so damn dumb that they can't even balance classes well.

Oh your right, but the decent ones are still around :P the others just hop on forums and whine when people post good stuff about the class, yeah the class needs work, does not mean it can't be used with great success still.

rokrdt05

Mostly I created the thread to reference PvE.

jwilkins66ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think this thread is confusing / feeding off the "PVP state" of Sorcs discontent that is being talked about at the moment and thinking something is wrong in PVE. So many here are talking about both sides of PVE. I wasn't aware of a DPS "problem" in PVE...

A quick search of the forums would say other wise or hell go to zone and ask if you should make a magicka sorc for pve and see the responses. It's absolutely absurd the responses you get or advice based off of old data.

Yes, we are limited as a class... but my point with this thread was to say we are still comparable to top DPS with other classes. As others have pointed out, Sorcs can usually be in the top with the same raid buffs as any other class.

In PvP, a sorc I the right hands is a monster. High burst, high survivability... deadly combo. I don't remember the last time I had to run from a 1vX fight with my sorc. They are just that powerful IMO.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

To me it is just a matter of learning the sorc, alot of people relied on certain skills and followed the crowd in them, personal i did not, i went my own way. The way i looked at it i wanted my sorc to be able to take down large group mobs quickly and have a high single target for bosses and pvp.

To me is not just down to skills but rotation and animation canceling, on mobs i proc detination, fire prey twice at mobs as i run in hit them with prison to hold them in place (as well as do damage), by them iam in the middle iam using pulse, crystal frags weaved in light attacks to proc my molag and the top i have hit is 100k damage

when i single target i use elemental drain, to start hit them with pray, crystal frags, force pulse and light weaves (again to proc molag), i also run in and pulse every now and then to give debuff and useally my single target is between 18k-30k.

The big thing is to experiment for your self and not to follow crowd, but saying that i can not get anywhere near my monster fire mage dk (who can do all tank, heal and dps) she has topped 175k on group mobs and topped 40k on single target

I agree that what it boils down to is a solid rotation and how well it's executed. I believe everyone is in agreement that most sorcs are using the same skills... but it comes down to how/when they are applied that make the rotation and a player able to pull awesome DPS. It just takes a person willing to try different things and work at it.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

liv3mind wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure because they're so strong that there's barely any sorcs around anymore, right?
Ah well, Zenimax just ruined the class completely because they're so damn dumb that they can't even balance classes well.

Oh your right, but the decent ones are still around :P the others just hop on forums and whine when people post good stuff about the class, yeah the class needs work, does not mean it can't be used with great success still.

Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.

daemonios

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

I'm sure because they're so strong that there's barely any sorcs around anymore, right?
Ah well, Zenimax just ruined the class completely because they're so damn dumb that they can't even balance classes well.

To be fair, Sorcs are nowhere near as bad as in 1.5 when Magicka DK was king. Back then (around Dec/2014) I scoured the trials leaderboards and found that only about 10% of players there were Sorcs, with a majority of groups not carrying a single one. I don't think that's the case now.

My main issue, as others have noted, is the huge amount of skills that are next to useless and indeed go unused by anyone in end-game PvE, the number of toggles, the narrowness of the possible builds... I have and still do main a Sorc, I'd love to see some things change, I think it's the least appealing class right now, but still I think we've been worse. Now don't take this as me saying I'm OK with it

bryanhaas

For max damage in one ultimate why not use the soul magic ultimate. I have been able to have it read about 77k damage over 3.9 seconds of course resists will play a factor.

iam117

bryanhaas wrote: »

For max damage in one ultimate why not use the soul magic ultimate. I have been able to have it read about 77k damage over 3.9 seconds of course resists will play a factor.

for pve every magicka class really should use meteor for max dps, ability to do well over 115k damage total

rokrdt05

liv3mind wrote: »

bryanhaas wrote: »

For max damage in one ultimate why not use the soul magic ultimate. I have been able to have it read about 77k damage over 3.9 seconds of course resists will play a factor.

for pve every magicka class really should use meteor for max dps, ability to do well over 115k damage total

Also, meteor is insta-cast and buffed by DK engulfing... which allows you to do your rotation with meteor still ticking... Soul Assault is a channel and doesn't do near the DPS meteor would and keeps you from doing anything else while it's being cast, it's also interruptible by block casting, any interrupts, CC's, etc.

Also if you take a look at my parse in the OP, you'll see that meteor did a total of 130K damage and was almost 9% of my DPS.. and that was with 1 Meteor.

iam117

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.

there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.

rokrdt05

liv3mind wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.

there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.

So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.

americansteel

if you believe sorcerer is not good for DPS youre either bad, need to l2p, stop reading false comments, stop loking at streamer videos including deltias gaming.

just play the damn class.

pvp wise sorcs and toolblades dominate.

Minalan

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think anyone said sorc isn't viable for PVE. Just boring and unforgiving of mistakes (accidentally hard cast frags, miss an easy animation cancel, etc)

Same build, same skills. Overload, elemental blockade, liquid lightning, frags, pulse, etc.. Same gear. Destro staff, etc.

You are reading too much into this. I never stated sorc was not viable for PvE, I said that many of the complaints about the class are about how they are far behind the curve compared to the other magicka classes. I disagree with your assessment, as any class can suffer mistakes that are equally detrimental to the parse (animation canceling isn't as prevalent with the way they changed combat).

Also not sure you read what I wrote...this was done W/O Overload. I'm not going to touch the rest of your statement... too over generalized and missing the point.

I still play my sorc, and won't switch to another class for any reason. I just dislike the PVE aspect of it.

To really get up there in DPS, you need max Magicka. For that you need to slot a couple of toggles. It means far fewer buttons to press, like two on each bar if you use a pet. It means dropping two AOE dots and timing them just right. It means some of your best DPS is left clicking overload (or in your case dropping a meteor).

Deltia posted up a DB PVE sorc build that does great PVE DPS.

https://youtu.be/mFUxhzHAT8o

That's extremely viable for end game content. I just don't care for the playstyle, maybe it's the toggles, AOE dots, and standing around. To each their own. I still adore the PVP playstyle. High mobility. Mines. CC. Defensive rune. Shields. The whole 'run and gun' playstyle is amazing fun.

rokrdt05

Minalan wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think anyone said sorc isn't viable for PVE. Just boring and unforgiving of mistakes (accidentally hard cast frags, miss an easy animation cancel, etc)

Same build, same skills. Overload, elemental blockade, liquid lightning, frags, pulse, etc.. Same gear. Destro staff, etc.

You are reading too much into this. I never stated sorc was not viable for PvE, I said that many of the complaints about the class are about how they are far behind the curve compared to the other magicka classes. I disagree with your assessment, as any class can suffer mistakes that are equally detrimental to the parse (animation canceling isn't as prevalent with the way they changed combat).

Also not sure you read what I wrote...this was done W/O Overload. I'm not going to touch the rest of your statement... too over generalized and missing the point.

I still play my sorc, and won't switch to another class for any reason. I just dislike the PVE aspect of it.

To really get up there in DPS, you need max Magicka. For that you need to slot a couple of toggles. It means far fewer buttons to press, like two on each bar if you use a pet. It means dropping two AOE dots and timing them just right. It means some of your best DPS is left clicking overload (or in your case dropping a meteor).

Deltia posted up a DB PVE sorc build that does great PVE DPS.

https://youtu.be/mFUxhzHAT8o

That's extremely viable for end game content. I just don't care for the playstyle, maybe it's the toggles, AOE dots, and standing around. To each their own. I still adore the PVP playstyle. High mobility. Mines. CC. Defensive rune. Shields. The whole 'run and gun' playstyle is amazing fun.

I don't have anything against Deltia or his guides as many other players do, but I personally like to test and come up with my own rotations/builds if I do anything. I also tend to theorycraft with @hedna123b14_ESO a lot.

Though no one is disagreeing about being bound to so many toggles. I honestly believe toggles should not even exist in game.

Anzriel

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I don't think anyone said sorc isn't viable for PVE. Just boring and unforgiving of mistakes (accidentally hard cast frags, miss an easy animation cancel, etc)

Same build, same skills. Overload, elemental blockade, liquid lightning, frags, pulse, etc.. Same gear. Destro staff, etc.

You are reading too much into this. I never stated sorc was not viable for PvE, I said that many of the complaints about the class are about how they are far behind the curve compared to the other magicka classes. I disagree with your assessment, as any class can suffer mistakes that are equally detrimental to the parse (animation canceling isn't as prevalent with the way they changed combat).

Also not sure you read what I wrote...this was done W/O Overload. I'm not going to touch the rest of your statement... too over generalized and missing the point.

I still play my sorc, and won't switch to another class for any reason. I just dislike the PVE aspect of it.

To really get up there in DPS, you need max Magicka. For that you need to slot a couple of toggles. It means far fewer buttons to press, like two on each bar if you use a pet. It means dropping two AOE dots and timing them just right. It means some of your best DPS is left clicking overload (or in your case dropping a meteor).

Deltia posted up a DB PVE sorc build that does great PVE DPS.

https://youtu.be/mFUxhzHAT8o

That's extremely viable for end game content. I just don't care for the playstyle, maybe it's the toggles, AOE dots, and standing around. To each their own. I still adore the PVP playstyle. High mobility. Mines. CC. Defensive rune. Shields. The whole 'run and gun' playstyle is amazing fun.

I don't have anything against Deltia or his guides as many other players do, but I personally like to test and come up with my own rotations/builds if I do anything. I also tend to theorycraft with @hedna123b14_ESO a lot.

Though no one is disagreeing about being bound to so many toggles. I honestly believe toggles should not even exist in game.

Yeah, I have nothing against toggles, but I really wish they would adjust the number sorcs have, it's kind of annoying with a limited skill bar like ESO has. Even in trials you'll have a couple toggles, limiting your other skills a bit too much.

Mayrael

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Mostly I created the thread to reference PvE.

jwilkins66ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think this thread is confusing / feeding off the "PVP state" of Sorcs discontent that is being talked about at the moment and thinking something is wrong in PVE. So many here are talking about both sides of PVE. I wasn't aware of a DPS "problem" in PVE...

A quick search of the forums would say other wise or hell go to zone and ask if you should make a magicka sorc for pve and see the responses. It's absolutely absurd the responses you get or advice based off of old data.

Yes, we are limited as a class... but my point with this thread was to say we are still comparable to top DPS with other classes. As others have pointed out, Sorcs can usually be in the top with the same raid buffs as any other class.

In PvP, a sorc I the right hands is a monster. High burst, high survivability... deadly combo. I don't remember the last time I had to run from a 1vX fight with my sorc. They are just that powerful IMO.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

To me it is just a matter of learning the sorc, alot of people relied on certain skills and followed the crowd in them, personal i did not, i went my own way. The way i looked at it i wanted my sorc to be able to take down large group mobs quickly and have a high single target for bosses and pvp.

To me is not just down to skills but rotation and animation canceling, on mobs i proc detination, fire prey twice at mobs as i run in hit them with prison to hold them in place (as well as do damage), by them iam in the middle iam using pulse, crystal frags weaved in light attacks to proc my molag and the top i have hit is 100k damage

when i single target i use elemental drain, to start hit them with pray, crystal frags, force pulse and light weaves (again to proc molag), i also run in and pulse every now and then to give debuff and useally my single target is between 18k-30k.

The big thing is to experiment for your self and not to follow crowd, but saying that i can not get anywhere near my monster fire mage dk (who can do all tank, heal and dps) she has topped 175k on group mobs and topped 40k on single target

I agree that what it boils down to is a solid rotation and how well it's executed. I believe everyone is in agreement that most sorcs are using the same skills... but it comes down to how/when they are applied that make the rotation and a player able to pull awesome DPS. It just takes a person willing to try different things and work at it.

Heh PvE is all about perfect rotation. PvP is unpredictible, you have to be unpredictible! Didnt you ever seen NB that goes stealth immediately after frags %? Or DK flaping his wings right after he spots sorc? Mag sorc is most predictible of all classes as he has 3 class skills used to attack + 2 staff. Since I run on magplar I wasnt killed by any single mag sorc (1v1 ofc, as I dont count being wrecked by zerg) as i can predict like 80-90% of thier moves. PvE is like totaly different gameplay, I dont say its easier but mobs wont go hide, wont roll dodge your every frags, wont be in reflect mode all the time, wont go stealth to regenerate and attack again or wait till your defenses are off and because of that I repeat again, dps of a sorc isnt the problem as it is still one of the best burst classes, lack of versatility is the problem as sorc have no tools to surprise enemy. On magplar when I meet reflect abusing DK or NB that likes to hide and dodge all the time I just swap the bars and go melee, then quick swap, put some presure, make him to focus on defence again and so on and on sorc? I can like umm what? Curse + heavy resto on him and wait till he jumps on me with fear? Or try to burn DK with this gl with that? Maybe you will kill some newbies but not experienced player. Sorc have no longer in 1v1 DoS, nor proxy, nor webs. I understand that main point of this thread isnt pvp but what i smell here is like SORCS ARE PERFECTLY FINE, STOP QQ. They are not. Eventhough I play magplar now ive tried to go back to Cyrodiil with new ideas and setups with my sorc many times as it was my first love here, but after few hours of playing I was tired and had enough, while on magplar i dont even notice how time passes.

Grao

rokrdt05 wrote: »

liv3mind wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Oh I did pretty much all the content before this patch. I just got tired of how boring the class has become and that we're shoehorned into one build to be good. Otherwise you'll just suck. Which is why I stopped playing since they can't fix anything in this game and all they do is shoving out DLC's that takes only a few hours to finish as it's all easy as hell and the overpriced mounts and merchants in the crown store. Really, this game is only a money grab now with no thought about long term so it'll end up dying soon hopefully.

there are at least 3 different armor combinations and atleast 3 different skill rotations to use on magicka sorc atm that are viable, so im not sure why you feel shoehorned into one build.

I'm just playing devil's advocate, but I think a lot of peoples frustrations are coming from A. The lack of a class spammable and B. The requirement of so many toggles when all other classes have moved from toggles and gained passives. Of course I can't speak for this individual, but it does narrow what skills you use. As many people have pointed out, a good chunk of sorc skills are unused (in pve) and useless for the most part. Where in other classes, many abilities are used.

So if you look at it from that perspective, then yes we are limited in that aspect... does this mean that there can be no unique rotations or builds? No, absolutely not. This was proven with @hedna123b14_ESO recent build for sorcs... just using that as an example. I've noticed lately however that many people just haven't bothered to try or keep up with the changes when it comes to sorcs. I'm glad I was challenged to do this test, because honestly I was one of those people who felt there was nothing more for a sorc... but now I feel differently having actually worked on it and tried.

Yes, you do hit the nail there. We are frustrated that we don't have a spammable, which essentially means we need that damn fire stick as our main weapon and the toggleness... That we have a toggle which the only purpose in our three bars is to grant a buff nightblades get as passive... Seriously? Meanwhile pets are still not affected by either CPs or your passives, meaning their damage becomes less and less relevant the further the game goes on because they stop scaling when you reach level 50. Their scaling doesn't get better at all from that point on and the only way to increase their damage is by increasing your mana pool which can only ever happen when they release new gear levels. It sucks.